March 19, 2004

• This is extremely great. Nice link. Note that the Quakers have been actively doing this for 350 or so years.
• Good for them. This has absolutely no applicability in solving problems for the rest of humanity; nor is it sustainable. They have managed to simple lives in a complex world. Reverting the entire world to simple would likely crush their existence. /elitist nihilist
• I prefer complexity. I find it makes things *interesting*. Occasionally along the lines of the Chinese curse, "May you live in interesting times," but nevertheless. Good for them, though. The more people that are happy, the better.
• I think there is more applicability than you give it credit for. I agree that it is unsustainable in the sense that there would be problems with the economy if no-one was willing to work at the less fulfilling jobs. But a reduction in the current insane materialism and gadgetry can only be a good thing. It all comes down to what is more important to you: owning a brand new car or spending more time with your loved ones?
• ...but... I love my iPod.
• It all comes down to what is more important to you: owning a brand new car or spending more time with your loved ones? Are the two necessarily related? Cannot one work at a satisfying job, earn lots of money, and buy things with which to enjoy WITH one's loved ones? Cannot, to push the analogy, one use the new car to drive the loved ones down to the beach for a nice afternoon of fun? I think often, in these sorts of discussions, we tend to reflexively assume that life is a zero-sum game of sorts - that while some choices do have to be made, and their are opportunity costs for each, it doesn't necessarily follow that a more complex lifestyle autmatically detracts from the enjoyment of family and simpler pleasures, or that a simpler lifestyle automatically adds to that or is satisfying for all. I laud these people's realization of what makes them happy and their success in following that, but I don't think that the same path would work similarly for all, that living a more brisk lifestyle is necessarily less happy, or that a renunciation of consumer culture is in and of itself a normative good. I think our consumer culture is a very good thing! Because a consumer culture must, by necessity, be a *producer* culture. Like money, I believe that things are not inherently evil, nor do I believe that acquisitiveness is inherently bad.
• The irony of the Simplicity movement is in its use to move annoying Whole Foods checkout line magazines such as Yoga Journal and Real Simple. (Did I ever tell y'all about the rural auto accident I witnessed caused by the woman rushing to her yoga class? She ran up to us, frantic to be pulled out of the snow in time for the class.) I do see value in thw Woods' philosophy, but it gets lost in the cheerleading and navel-gazing so stereotypical of many Boomers. Too, dreadful lines such as If life were a building, simplicity would be the architect, frugality the hammer and boards don't make the cocktail any more palatable. Maybe they should, ahem, hire an editor instead of doing it themselves. Time is worth more than money, I agree. But toys are fun, and can enable pleasurable pasttimes. Lightweight racing skis and bindings give me an athletic experience that I cannot duplicate with hand-sawn and -glued birch boards. Connoisseurship, too, is of value: I can use surplus money to support artists and craftsmen with talent much greater than mine. Finally, I can use money to buy more time. I'm a skilled computer programmer, a very poor auto mechanic, and completely without carpentry skills: in two hours, a skilled mechanic can do work that would take me more than twelve hours to complete. It's comparative advantage on the most local scale. The converse of this is the gear queen. He owns a $3,000 bicycle, a complete titanium cookset, and a four-season mountain tent that he saw advertised in Outside magazine, but spends his days racking up billable hours, the bike propped in the corner of his office. He is the yang against the yin of the annoying simplicity crunchies. We must find a middle way.
• Yet each must follow his or her own path to the wisdom of the Middle Way; "By three methods we may learn wisdom: First, by reflection, which is noblest; second, by imitation, which is easiest; and third by experience, which is the bitterest." (Confucius) Those that eschew the first two methods, friend Goetter, must ultimately use the the third. It may be that your Gear Queen - and the crunchies - are learning wisdom, as they necessarily must, in their own way. Om.
• I just want the money to buy all the things I want to use in my free time. I reckon maybe a rudimentary demand and supply diagram should be able to map out the optimum solution to this problem.
• I vote new car.
• It's probably a feng shui thing. Not necessarily bare but not cluttered either. For example, increase the chi of your car by putting some healthy plants around it. Store your iPod next to the fountain. Y'know, that kind of thing.
• MonkeyFilter: The more people that are happy, the better well, somebody had to say it, didn't they? ::ducks::
• I was awaiting comment from goetter and thought he'd go the other way! I completely agree. We need the balance, although I believe we are far too consumptive in some of the worst ways. I suppose it's inevitable but I does my heart good to hear of these kinds of lifestyles. I admire those who are willing and able to live this way. I also admire those who have the money and the good taste to be connoisseurs. Funny, I have my own titanium bike ownin', gear-queen friend.
• I remember reading once, can't remember where, a book about simplifying your life that graphed out money spent to satisfaction received. The basics, such as shelter, clothing, food, transportation: high satisfaction. Upgrades to the basics also graphed high on the satisfaction curve: things like having your own washer/dryer, a garage (for urban dwellers) and a "nicer" car. By the time you are buying a boat, or a second house, or a third car, then the curve flattens out as the hassles of having too much stuff start to weigh down. On a personal level, in 1999 I left a relationship - we were living overseas, so I couldn't just pack up the car and take off. I wound up getting on a plane with five suitcases, and walking away from everything else. It was a profoundly liberating thing to have done- I had culled things down to the few sentimental and/or irreplaceable items I couldn't do without, and it changed the way I look at all the "stuff" we are encouraged to consume. (Me realizes how much crap has accumulated in apartment, decides to go clean out closets)
• I'll be learning to do that in a few months time, as I may be going off to library school. After living in the same room for almost twenty years, I'll really have to learn how to get rid of stuff I don't need, or even want anymore. Fes: The actual saying isn't a curse. It's a proverb that goes something like, "rather a dog in peaceful times, than a man in chaotic times." I'm not exactly sure how that 'curse' came about, but it's been circulating for a long time now. And Pratchett didn't help any with his novel Interesting Times. Sorry, just being pedantic. You won't be the first to feel like throttling me for it, don't worry.
• I'm reminded of my favorite movie line: "Take nothing with you on your journey so precious or dear that it's loss would devastate you." That line resonated so clearly with me that I lived my life by it for more than a decade. When I moved from Chicago to Albuquerque I took my 17 year old motorcycle and some boxes. Now that I own a house, a hose, a lawnmower and an axe I am subject to great pangs of anxiety from accumulating too much stuff. Which is made worse by my gadget envy. Which, in turn, I alleviate by selling off my gadgets shortly after I purchase them. It's a viscious cycle.
• I agree Madam Slut--a viscious thing indeed VICIOUS/VISCOUS CIRCLE/CYCLE The term "vicious circle" was invented by logicians to describe a form of fallacious circular argument in which each term of the argument draws on the other: "Democracy is the best form of government because democratic elections produce the best governments." The phrase has been extended in popular usage to all kinds of self-exacerbating processes such as this: poor people often find themselves borrowing money to pay off their debts, but in the process create even more onerous debts which in their turn will need to be financed by further borrowing. Sensing vaguely that such destructive spirals are not closed loops, people have transmuted "vicious circle" into "vicious cycle." The problem with this perfectly logical change is that a lot of people know what the original "correct" phrase was and are likely to scorn users of the new one. They go beyond scorn to contempt however toward those poor souls who render the phrase as "viscous cycle." Don't use this expression unless you are discussing a Harley-Davidson in dire need of an oil change.
• BlueHorse: Thanks for the etymology of the phrase, but it was an intentional bastardization - note the previously mentioned motorcycle. ;)
• oh, except for the vicious slip up, of course.
• Zing! and DoubleZing!!
• Maybe the issue here is not simplicity, rather spending money on things that please you, not what you think will make others pleased with you.
• The actual saying isn't a curse. It's a proverb that goes something like, "rather a dog in peaceful times, than a man in chaotic times." I'm not exactly sure how that 'curse' came about, but it's been circulating for a long time now. I think its from an old Twilight Zone episode, or something similar.
• i have to admit to being akin to these people. i have long ago abandonded buying 'new'.....except for the peripherals and updating of my old computer, and those i carefully choose in advance and watch for them to drop in price as the new models are ready to come out. i prowl the 'goodwill' and 'sally ann' shops for bargains and i don't think i have any new furniture other than a bed and my darling's television that he insisted on getting for himself. i wear wonderful, quality clothes that other people have discarded....most times still new. i enjoy the compliments i receive on my three dollar outfits from such as the gap, l.l. bean, imported tweeds and silks etc...i can glance down a rack of materials and spot quality immediately. i admit that skill took some time to develop. i recently brought home a lovely old quebec maple table, with extension and hand carved legs for forty dollars and only have to lightly sand and redo the top. and then the vintage bar chairs for twenty dollars. i wander around the demolition materials site for things to use in my projects. i admit i'm addicted to ressurecting the discarded. my house and garden are full of plants that i grab for a dollar at the clearance tables....they just need love. everything gets a new life with me and i refuse to pay full price for things...especially status objects. i really regret having to get rid of my old '85 chevy estate wagon, which was a horrible looking thing, but a real slap in the face when i pulled into parking lots for professional meetings. (the province here put new standards in place that it wouldn't pass) simplicity is the mantra of my life....when chaos threatens i work to reduce things to the basic elements and achieve control. i lived my life as a soap opera for too long a spell....no longer.
• You want cheap? Next time you buy that table, sand it so the wood's clean then finish it by wet-and-drying vegetable oil into it. That's right, vegetable oil. Gives a nice silky feel, and should you need to refinish (because someone's stuck a hot kettle on it), it's easy as. Stay away from nasty polyurethanes.
• How do you wet-and-dry? And you reccomend vegetable oil over linseed?
• I've realised that I have become obsessive about not wasting things. I shop at Goodwill/Sally Ann whenever I can, and donate things back. It used to be to save money, but now I've realised it is just that my heart breaks to see anything go into a landfill, if it could possibly be used. That said, anyone know any place to give rags to in North America? They are truely worn, best for making paper or or a rug or something - I know that rags are reused in other countries, but don't know where to send them to here.
• How do you wet-and-dry? And you reccomend vegetable oil over linseed? Ask the hardware store for some wet-and-dry paper
• jb, i take old worn out clothes to the humane society for bedding for young animals. it works well for them as i only use natural fibres such as cotton etc and they are grateful for old sweats and t-shirts and linens. wolof...that sounds wonderful....i have a parrot and always have to worry about fumes from my endeavours....but are you sure about using a circular motion when sanding? i once refinished the top of a mahogany chest and foolishly went in circular motions and spoiled the top! but i was using wire wool, so maybe that was the problem. i've been scared to touch it since. since i use veggie oil to maintain my chopping blocks, that does make perfect sense and now i have a new way to approach things. do you have any friendly tips for removing old layers of paint or 'poly's' other than elbow grease? such wonderful suggestions...this is so rewarding.
• do you have any friendly tips for removing old layers of paint or 'poly's' other than elbow grease? You really need an evil chemical to do this
• hmm....no one told me to be gentle in the process.....i used wire wool and minerals spirits and thought the harder i worked the sooner i'd be done. it was the first time i'd used such a method and assumed the marks were superficial. *sigh* it's a wonderful cedar lined chest made from an old church organ that i've had for thirty years. i must be brave and remove all the clutter hiding it and try again....will the vegetable oil bring the top to the same dark colour as the rest that i didn't touch? what kind of parrots are in australia? are they your family birds or do you have lots of wild ones around you? sunrise must be quite an experience for you compared to my one loud squawker!
• I don't know what sort of finish the rest of the chest's got on it. But cedar's lovely stripped back. The veg oil will only darken it a little. All parrots here are wild. We have about five main types, some of which are quite loud and raucous. But the main noisy thing is the kookaburras exploding outside the bedroom window at 5 in the morning. Ay! Too early, guys!
• oh...../after checking out kookaburras at least i can feed my fellow and shut him up!