March 25, 2008

Japan's internet group suicide problem.
posted by some wander by mistake 16 years ago
  • Suicide is the sin against the Holy Ghost? That's a doctrine I've not heard of before. I'd better carry on living then; godnose I wouldn't want to upset the Holy Ghost.
  • My heart goes out to them. May they rest in peace.
  • I can easily imagine myself as one of them, but for the grace of [insert deity here]. If I had not joined Monkeyfilter, but, say, an IRC where there were similarly despondent people.... Yes, things could very probably have gone that way. I am sorry they never met their Monkeyfilter, that they never found friends who pulled them up instead of pulling them down. I hope they have found the peace they wanted.
  • *gives Neddy a hug* I signed up on MoFi the same day as you, Alnedra. I, too, was happy to have stumbled upon it when I did.
  • Driving over the Tappan Zee Bridge today, I was struck at the signs at each end that advise people that life is worth living. It took me a minute to realize why they were there. I, too, hope these people found peace, and am heartbroken for those who suffer so.
  • Wow, this was really impressively well written. And not that hard to relate to, unfortunately.
  • We used to drive over the Tappan Zee all the time, to visit grandma ... the joke was always, "you tappan zee bridge, I breaka you face!"
  • Suicide is the sin against the Holy Ghost? That's a doctrine I've not heard of before. If I recall my high school religion classes correctly, suicide is a sin not on account of the commandment 'Thou Shalt Not Kill' (which may or may not apply to the self, depending on your translation), but rather because it is a denial of God's Goodness in the world. Suicide is an act which says that there is no hope, and there is always hope when one has faith. As such, the sin becomes a denial of faith. As for it being a sin against the Holy Spirit specifically, I've never heard of that either, but the Holy Spirit being God's vehicle on Earth, well, it would tie the sin to God on a practical level (which I would think redundant at that point, but whatever). Here endeth the lesson.
  • *big hugs to all the Monkeys*
  • Bridges don't kill people. People kill themselves. I always roll my eyes when people rise up to make a suicide bridge "safe". There's one in Toronto (I can't recall where) that local do-good-ers wanted to raise serious money to build a mesh net for, so that people intent on offing themselves would be thwarted by the clever anti-suicide technology. Okay, fine. So the XYZ bridge is no longer a good spot to shuffle off the mortal coil. What do I do if I want to kill myself now? I go someplace else. I throw myself in front of a bus, or the subway train. I drink four bottles of vodka. I take some pills, I buy a gun. Bridges are not siren's songs, luring people to suicide. Bridges are convenient places to jump from and die. There are infinite other ways, and we cannot eliminate even a small fraction of them . So why try?
  • I was also taught that newer theology held that people are not in their right minds when they commit suicide, so it's no longer thought of as an unforgivable sin, but a result of mental illness.
  • Mmmmm vodka.
  • Ralph, that'd be the Bloor Street Viaduct, famous for suicides and being gloriously described in Michael Ondaatje's In The Skin of a Lion. Though you're no doubt right about the truly desperate simply finding another means, the veil was built to eliminate those cases where the contemplation of suicide was a momentary infatuation. The hard-cores, you're not going to get rid of, but if those people who think of suicide more as a solution to a temporary and resolvable situation have to be delayed, and forced into a more difficult means, then (the theory goes) the numbers of suicides would, uh, fall. Yes, no doubt some will find another method. That doesn't mean there has to be an easily accessible, surefire, and inviting method smack in the middle of town. Not to mention that the viaduct goes over the Don Valley Parkway, meaning that a jumper can take out not a few motorists at the same time.
  • I hope you'll let us know if you ever need cheering up, alnedra. That's what mofites are for. Some brief research suggests that the sin against the Holy Ghost is in fact referring to It (Him? Them?) as 'Beelzebub'(See Matthew 12:22-33, Mark 3:22-30, and Luke 11:14-20 with 12:10.) or more generally, denying Him (Them, It). Jesus is interpreted as saying in the foregoing texts that this is an Eternal Sin - you do it, you're going to Hell and staying there, no matter what. Some believe that suicide is another Eternal Sin, for the reasons so ably adduced by m'learned friend Capt. Renault, to wit, that it is an act of despair.
  • Oh Ralph, I have to disagree. Bridges are a siren song - almost literally. Have you ever looked over the side of a bridge and thought how easy it would be to hop over the railing and fall all the way down? Imagine having that thought on a day when you're feeling suicidal anyway. Looking up at the fence and wondering how you'd be able to climb it can indeed be enough to break the spell. (Ask me how I know.) Fences are cheap, and save lives. Not all of them, obviously, but some.
  • We have a big bridge on the college campus where I work. Almost every year they find a kid at the bottom of the gorge; it's not always clear whether it's an accident or not. At any time of the day in the week leading up to commencement, you can walk by and hear some kids telling his parents, "That's where I was going to jump if I failed my exams." I suspect most of them are joking, but I know not all of them are.
  • *big hugs to all monkeys*
  • *gives sugarmilktea and Plegmund long overdue hugs*
  • Suicide aspirants should read this, an article on just how difficult it is to kill the human body and the often horrifying consequences of those who attempt suicide but fail.
  • *belated hug for neddy*
  • *lines up for a hug*
  • *hugs everyMonkey*