February 08, 2008

• I would give the duathlon a miss this time round until your feet and ankles are stronger. A month is hardly enough time to recover from such an injury, imho.
• I need to do this while I have the momentum (so to speak) and my physiotherapist seems to think it'll be okay. I'm impatient though. (And the more I type it, the more it looks like "psychotherapist".)
• Hmmm.
• I guess your physio is the best person to advise - but I would be concerned about you having enough to recover and then train. Really we need dimmn or middleclasstool to chime in... *sends out signals*
• > 1. Recommendations for footwear for freaky feet like mine? I have high arches plus dodgy ankles. For trainers, I normally just keep looking until I find something that's comfortable and that feels like it supports my feet. I've been quite happy with New Balance during the past few years. I normally buy higher cut footwear because ankle support is necessary. I also try to build up my ankle strength with weights/exercises.
• Last year, my wife hurt her knee, running too much. She was training for a half marathon (her first) a couple weeks away. Apparently, the tendon (I think it was called ITB) is a common muscle to injure when people train a lot. She could barely walk on it, and couldn't travel downstairs (it wasn't as difficult to travel upstairs or to ride her bike). She went and seen the doctor, not only to find out what was wrong and how to fix it, but to find out if she should do the run. The doctor gave her some medication for the pain and some anti-inflammatory medicine and advised her on the run. The advise was that if it still hurt, don't run. If it didn't hurt, go ahead and run. If it starts hurting during the run, stop running. I'm not an expert, but I think this advise can be applied to your situation, and most others. Do it if it doesn't hurt, don't if it does. (He also said that if it still hurt, he could give her a shot of some steroid a couple days before the run, and that it should accelerate the healing) Resolution: She continued to have pain up until the day before the race. Which prevented her from doing any training for the two weeks prior to the marathon. She ran and completed the half marathon, with a time of 2:00:35.
• Solution: ride goat.
• No expert here, but I am a pretty serious runner. I wouldn't even consider cross-trainers, they're fine on a treadmill but not great for putting miles on the road. Instead I would look for proper running shoes. There are good shoes from many brands, the real trick is to find a store that can fit you properly. A general sporting goods store won't do, what you want is a specialized running store. What they'll be able to do is to bring you shoes from several brands that are appropriate for your feet and how you run whereas at a general sporting goods store they'll bring you the ones you pick off the wall. They will be more expensive, of course, but most of the major brands now have good shoes at relatively reasonable prices.
• 1. Recommendations for footwear for freaky feet like mine? I need tons of arch support, more than those insert thingies can apparently provide. I am on a tight budget. A cross-trainer would be ideal. Sounds like custom orthotics would be best, but if money's an issue, then forget it. Yes, what sfred said, get running shoes and not cross trainers. Find a store that caters to runners, and they'll put you up on a treadmill, examine your gait, and make shoe recommendations based on that and your arches. 2. Suggestions for training that I can pass on to my physiotherapist? I am frustrated because the cycling is good for fitness training, but I am a very inexperienced runner and want to get started. If I didn't have the sprain, what would you suggest to prepare for a 5km run? Maybe an elliptical machine? There's some ankle-bending that goes with that, but then there is for biking too. Zero impact, and if you do half your workout going forward and half going backward, you will discover a new level of muscular suffering that will keep your legs in good shape. 4. Kitting out the bike for such a short ride; is it worthwhile? My bike is a couple of months old, comfortable, mountain bike frame with road tyres, nice and lightweight. I need to get a pump and a water-bottle holder. Anything else? Six miles on a bike? If it's in good shape, you'll be fine with just water and a pump. Unless you want to bring a spare tube and tools to change it, I suppose. 5. Anyone else with similar issues? I'm a bit concerned about whether I'll be able to hack it; I think my physio has made me a tad nervous. Be prepared for the possibility that this ain't gonna happen. I feel your pain, believe me, I've had to cancel Little Rock this year because of injury, and I'm pretty pissed off about that, but what are you gonna do. If you fuck your feet up worse, there will be no races in your future ever.
• My doc prescribed orthotics for my ultra-flat feet, but was quick to admit that orthotics were garbage. I haven't heard anyone say otherwise, myself. YMMV. And having flat fleet, I can't run without searing pain, so I have no idea about running-type insoles, just ones for proper shoes. I do understand that New Balance are the runners for serious runners, being of better construction than the others, but I couldn't say personally. As for the bike, I wouldn't fit it up for a ride that short. I wouldn't even bother with the pump, really. If you're going longer, the triathlon handlebars to keep you streamlined and relaxed, perhaps.
• Suggestion: Buy beer, watch TV, don't worry about it.
• My doc prescribed orthotics for my ultra-flat feet, but was quick to admit that orthotics were garbage. Really? I tried running without mine, and my ankle pain quickly returned. I do understand that New Balance are the runners for serious runners, being of better construction than the others, but I couldn't say personally. This is not really true. A lot of runners swear by NB, but Nike, Brooks, Asics, Saucony, and Mizuno all make good quality running shoes that are used by pros. I don't personally know a runner who uses NB. I run on Brooks, and love 'em. I'm thinking of giving Mizunos a try, though. The cool thing about NB is that if you buy from a NB store, you'll get good expert help finding the right shoe for your gait. However, if there's a running store in your area, you'll get the same thing and more brand choices.
• Well, I know Nike, NB and Asics are all readily available here so that's a good start. Right, running shoes, not cross trainers. I don't know anyone that'll loan me a goat, though. I rode ten miles last night and the ankle is feeling pretty good this morning, so I'm confident it won't be an issue five weeks from now. But it's the running I'm worried about, so I'll get access to an elliptical trainer (with physio approval, obvs). The backwards thing sounds torturous; what sort of weirdo does that to themselves?!
• Monkeyfilter: what sort of weirdo does that to themselves?!
• Let Quiddy run/bike it for you!
• He would look awesome in a wig and lipstick.
• and spandex.
• MCT: I've recently switched from Asics to Mizunos, oddly enough because I found the Asics' arches to be too high for my slightly flat feet. Both companies make good shoes, the Asics feel better constructed but the Mizunos seem to last longer before the cushioning breaks down.
• sfred: It's all a matter of preference. My feet are pancakes, but I won't buy anything besides Asics for running. Spend more money on shoes than you think you should, tracicle. My wife tried to get by with the wrong type, and had to stop running after an achilles tendon injury. Took her a full year to get her momentum back (in much better shoes).
• Yeah, I just went to Mizuno's website a few hours ago, inspired by this thread, and apparently they don't make wide sizes, at least not for their motion control line. W, I ask you, TF? I might give Asics a try next time, but my Brooks are in fact treating me well, so who knows. They look like a couple of bricks with all that extra instep support, but you don't buy running shoes based on how they look. And yes, what frogs said. You'll see sporting goods stores selling "running shoes" for US$50. They're shit, even if they come from a good brand. Decent running shoes'll cost you at least $80 or $90.
• Uff. Geek thread.
• You know you want to get with this. *flexes quads*
• I had similar problems when I started my training (split shins, knee problems, heel problems baker cyst) and I found the perfect remedy (for me at least): www.swissmasaius.com okay, you do look like a dork walking around in these but it really works. These shoes will strengthen your muscles and will help you regenerating. Besides this - go to a running lab and have your running analyzed (of have a run with an experienced trainer who can spot problems). It is my experience that it's rarely a physiological problem but more of a running-style issue.
• I have such flat feet*, any arch support in a shoe is uncomfortable. So I guess no help either, except to echo the "if it hurts don't do it" advice. From my varied klutz-induced injuries, most physical therapists seem to give that advice for feet and knees. *Proof that the Captain and I are, indeed, sole-mates?
• I walk flat-footed, but it's because my feet are not properly aligned - if I stand with my knees facing straight forward, my feet, especially the right one, stick out sideways a bit. I only discovered this a few years ago, although the physiotherapist was incredulous that the problem hadn't become obvious before. Arch supports are worse than useless for me, but I know people with 'proper' flat feet who swear by them.
• People always tell me I walk on my toes. Then it turns out I don't anyway, it just looks like it because my feet are so high. I do put more weight on the balls of my feet than most, I think, and it's partly a sports-related habit I've developed since I was 8 or 9. A good pair of Asics here is about NZ$300, which is about US$200. Prices are stupid when you convert the currencies. Computer stuff, especially Apple products, are the same. An iPhone here is way more expensive than in the US once you convert currencies. Unfortunately with shoes I can't just buy them and have them shipping from the USA because I need to be there, obviously.
• OK, here's what we'll do. 1. Take some plaster molds of your feet. 2. Send 'em over, we'll fit them to shoes. 3. Profit?
• I'm no runner, but I've got horrible high arches, as well as feet wider than a normal duck's. I've a right big toe limited by arthritis to 20% normal bending function, two broken left metatarsals that never healed correctly, and Morton's neuroma's on both feet. In the last year, I've had such horrible foot pain I finally went to a podiatrist. What a man!! Was sure I'd have to have custom orthotics, but he told me to hold off on them and try a set of OTC that he modified ($35), and to buy New Balance running shoes ($110 on sale) I can walk without pain again, and even jog a bit. Amazing!
• I also forgot. The last time I was in physical therapy (when the neighbor's pit bull broke my kneecap), my physical therapist also recommended OTC orthodics. I used them all through therapy, and thy actually did help a lot. They were nice gel ones for about $10 each.
• I forgot to mention that I asked the physio about inserts and she said none of them would be high enough for me (omg!). murmur, I used to get shin splints too from outdoor netball (jumping around on concrete) and tennis. And Lara, wtf?
• wtf what? My zillion bouts of physical therapy, or my brilliant plan to get shoes from plaster Bashi-feet casts?
• I'm not a runner, but I also have crazy high arches. I've had some good luck with Nike, because they offer some styles in low, medium, and high arch levels. I have to replace these pretty regularly because the arches inevitably smoosh down, but they're great while they're newish. I tried to look up on the Nike New Zealand site if they sell different arch heights in your area, but quite frankly the site is very, very annoying so I gave up. But a good store will let you know. I also second the call for an eliptical. I have rotten joints -- have since childhood -- but I can actually "jog" on the eliptical with no pain. (There's some Southern saying about how a "real lady" should be able to stand in a stream and let the water flow under her arches without stopping? I guess we're real ladies. *belch*)
• forgot to mention that I asked the physio about inserts and she said none of them would be high enough for me (omg!) With custom orthotics, they make plaster casts of your feet and build the arch supports off of those casts to fit your specific foot. As I said, they're spendy (run you a few hundred bucks), but they'll give you every bit of support you need.
• Ah. Sounds good. I'd better start saving!
• And Lara, wtf? wtf what? I do believe she was speaking about the pitbull/broken knee. Cough it up, gal. We want the story.
• Oh, I think I droned on about it in another thread. Waist-high unleashed dog ran from two blocks away, head-butted my knee, knocked me over and stood over me. Owner thought it funny, have since moved. My knee joint was already cut through very badly in a car accident some years ago, so the arthritic joint and half knee cap in that leg weren't really happy. Add that to the spinal nerve damage that makes the lower half of the same leg almost completely numb, and it's like the damned dog had radar. Much better now, though.
• Ouch. I hadn't read that elsewhere, or if I did I mentally blocked it. I'm...glad it's better? (Yes, sorry, that was the wtf I meant, btw kthx)
• I run short distances (~2-4km) a couple of times a week, and I've found that I had a lot of pain in a lot of places when I started (knee, arch, and especially achilles tendon - couldn't walk right when that one acted up). I asked a doc about it and he told me to stretch before, during, and after jogging. Now that I do that, it adds ~10 minutes to my workout and I haven't had any pain anywhere. Won't help with the arches, but it may help with other owies.
• I was very naughty by physio standards tonight and played netball (our team was short a couple of players and I am bad at saying no) and had no trouble with the ankle, so I'm going to ask the physio to let me start running (slowly, with appropriate footwear) next week. Stretching definitely helps, I found that tonight -- I got a twinge in the back of my ankle and stopped to stretch it and it disappeared.
• mct - Wearing the Asics Evolution now, it's got loads of support but is not nearly as heavy as the Brooks Beast or the Asics Foundation. If you're looking for a lighter-weight shoe without dropping the support it may be worth a try. Otherwise, the old rule of running shoes - stay with what works. Sorry to hear about Little Rock, the wife and I are signing up for another half marathon in June and ought to start running in earnest again soon. We're still socked in for the winter, seems as if every weekend it's too cold to get outside (-40 degree F wind chills on Saturday!) so we're looking at 2-3 weeks with no running in, and it's frustrating...
• I'd second that: stay with what works is often the best advice. ( I'm now feeling very guilty about not signing up for the Toronto half-marathon in the spring. It just seems too cold today to contemplate training and I've turned into a complete cold-wuss since I left Ottawa for Toronto.)
• I've done a bunch of triathlons (sprints, one olympic, one half-ironman, several adventure races); I'm very much a casual participant, though, and the only person I race is myself.

  • Shoe Recommendations?
    You need to ignore us and instead find the high-quality running store near you (ask your trainer or a marathoner). Pay a fair piece more for your sneakers to save on physical therapy in the long run. There's a *huge* qualitative difference between the Athlete's Foots (bad) and the RunTex's (good).
  • Training?
    Listen to your therapist. Most victims of a use injury come back too quickly and wind up healing from it twice. As a rule of thumb: once you think you're at full strength, be prepared to wait that long again. (Tri|Du)athlons are sports of psychology and training, not running or biking; one of the main skills to succeed is don't get injured, and be smart about recovery when you do. This may mean skipping your race.
  • Advice for first-time?
    When you pass the course photographer, compose yourself, smile, and maybe even flash a "Thumbs-up". Coach yourself: be encouraging; compare your state to how you felt during workouts; remind yourself that you're well prepared for this. You're really just doing a few easy workouts in a row, so *don't* gauge your progress against the whole race distance, just water station to water station. If possible, do a coupla workouts along the actual race route (or at least pre-drive it); picture yourself there on race day. When you start hurting during the race, it's "Check in Check out" / "Hurt, not Harm". Check in: Hurting? Good! This leaves you stronger after recovery; remind yourself of that, then stop thinking about it (check out). Harm? Be strong -- stop the race (check out).
  • Transitions?
    Don't worry about the transitions. For your first race make yourself waste some transition time: catch your breath, use the can, eat a powerbar. You're getting your personal best no matter what your time! With that said, get in 1 or 2 "brick" workouts: bike/run, bike/run, called "bricks" for how your legs feel going to the run. Find a 1/4mi track near bikeable streets, set up as you will at the race, and do two reps, with full rest between reps, of 3 mi bike / 0.75 mile run with no rest from bike to run. This will be a very hard workout: scale back if needed, but do two reps. The main thing is to find out what you need for the transition and are ready for the brick feeling.
  • Bike Toys?
    Don't do anything in the race that you haven't done in training. If the bike is working for you now, it'll work for you then. Carry a spare tube, a powerbar, buy/borrow a CO2 inflator, and most importantly learn how to change a tire. You damsure want to finish this race, so be ready to fix a flat on the road. *Don't* just train on either stationary bike or treadmill. Get in some road training, and perhaps a couple bricks.
  • Anyone else go thru this?
    I struggled with shin splints for a while, until the right shoes, a custom orthotic, and a long long break from running fixed it. You may also need all three. Shoes+orthotics are expensive but cost *way* less than physical therapy. Don't do this race if you haven't fully recovered: there are races all spring and summer. Consider doing this race as a relay, since it sounds like you're in good biking shape (most race organizers will allow this): talk a friend into taking the run leg, then sign you both up for a duathlon next month.

  More good stuff here and here
• Is being a half ironman an unalloyed pleasure? ;-)
• Go to your room.
• Welcome, btw, mrflip
• If I could mark that comment as a favourite, I would. Thanks for the in-depth response, mrflip. I got the all-clear from the physio last Thursday with a list of exercises to continue with, and the caveat that I may need to come back for custom orthotics. I'm going to buy some decent running shoes. I've had a respiratory infection that has just cleared up, leaving me...oh, four weeks to train! I had originally planned to go for completing the duathlon in an hour or less, but I know now that's just a good way to set myself up for disappointment, plus a lot of pain -- the running track is at an equestrian centre so it'll be bumpy and full of rabbit holes, no doubt. Oh the whole though I feel ready, if horribly unfit.
• Thx for the welcome, and the awful pun -- my brother insists that a half-ironman should just be an aluminumman. With four weeks, you'll be fine... remind yourself of that over and over again, and remember 'hurt not harm' as you ease back in to running. Your running store may be able to suggest ankle supports or strategies for the rough track. The most important advice, though, is to smile and thumbs-up the course photogs :)
• If I could mark that comment as a favourite, I would. IF ONLY WE HAD A GODDAMN ADMIN TO ADD FEATURES OR SOMETHING, I DUNNO, MAYBE SOMEONE WHOSE LEGS DON'T WORK PROPERLY SO SHE HAS TO STAY INSIDE AND CODE This message brought to you by the Friends of quidnunc -- remember, this November, a vote for quidnunc is a vote against terrorism.
• You sabotaged my ankle! I knew it!