January 28, 2008

• I read an article on this not long ago, and the thing that strikes me is: if you make derogatory comments, or even generalizations, based on someone's ethnicity, it doesn't matter what ethnicity you substitute. You're still going to sound bigoted.
• To save everyone from having to read the National Pest. When I was on exchange in Florida, A friend of mine took me along to a lady friend's ranch to hang out for a couple of days. Ocala, so Florida interior. The lady friend's husband had a friend of his and his wife over for dinner, and the last three were unabashed racists. Quite casually dropping the n-bomb when discussing the '72 high school football team. I was absolutely stunned -- I'd never heard anything like this. I didn't say anything, both being a guest and completely fucking dumbfounded. My friend and his lady friend were quite apologetic, but the buddy of the husband just took that as a signal to rachet everything up a few notches. When he found out I was Canadian, he went on this extended tirade about how "Canadians are even worse than Yankees." I had no idea what he was talking about -- I can see how he as a Southerner wasn't crazy about Yankees (and also since Canadians sometimes aren't crazy about Yankees, either), but what the hell did we do? He didn't have a good answer (not that there's a 'good answer' when it comes to racism), but in any event, it showed me that there is plenty of loathing for Canadians down in Dixie, a contempt that was exceeded only by those n-----s on the defensive line. So what I'm saying is, I think such a substitution certainly possible.
• Well, I guess in his flawed logic, if the US North was bad by virtue of it being north of him, then Canada must, due to it's geographic location, be worse?
• Can I just make a sincere plea not to let this thread degenerate into all-Southerners-are-racists/racism-only-exists-in-the-South territory? Pretty pretty please, with multicolored sprinkles? Cap'n -- I've lived in the South all my life, and one of my best friends is half-Canadian. Seriously: I can't ever remember hearing anyone express any general dislike for Canadians. You just came across a couple of assholes, not Official Regional Spokesmen.
• Native Houstonian living in Austin here. I've never heard the word Canadian used as a slur other than via this case. I'm not doubting the good Captain, and $DEITY knows there are enough bigots in the Houston metro area, but I have no idea where that particular word choice came from. My best guess is that somebody was trying to avoid tripping an email filter or being caught with his proverbial pants around his ankle for being racist if somebody read it later. Whoops, that didn't work out so well. Context: The Harris County DA's office is in an uproar right now. DA Rosenthal (who incompetently argued and lost the sodomy case before the Supreme Court a few years ago) got caught sending kissy emails to his assistant and has been forced out running for re-election by the local Republican Party. Now that people are looking in the DA's emails, they're finding all sorts of interesting/incriminating stuff.
• Man, there's nothing more ironic than gay-bashing-closeted-homosexual-Republicans...
• Please don't get me wrong, guys -- I didn't mean to paint a broad picture of all-southerners-are-racist, I was just telling a story about the three racists I met at the ranch. And I think Larababy's theory was the correct one, that Canadians being more northern than Yankees, they were somehow worse. Of course, me being there with my gay friend didn't help matters -- they hated being at the same table as him, and me, being his guest for the weekend -- I was likely painting all Canadians as gay-loving libbral underground railroadin' weirdos. Which we totally are.
• I have a relative who works in a bar in the Cleveland area. This is what I've been told on the "Canadians" issue: The management of that bar does not like it to be filled predominantly with African-American clientele. The supposed reasoning -- and please, while I am sharing this, do not assume that I agree with any of it -- is that black men don't buy much or tip much, and that the white clients who are bigger spenders and better tippers will leave if they come in and see a majority of black customers. Therefore, whenever the crowd on a given night begins to lean to majority-black, the people who work at the bar will discuss whether or not they want to drive off some of the "Canadians." I presume that they use this term so they won't be understood if they're overheard. If the manager goes to the DJ and says, "There are a lot of Canadians in here tonight!", it's a signal to the DJ to begin a very, very white-oriented musical set. Supposedly the percentage of black clientele becomes a minority again after a half hour or so. This relative is a DJ, and he says it's pretty common practice in some Cleveland-area bars. It's ridiculous, and totally racist, just in a more cynical and profit-driven way than you'd initially suspect. It disappoints me that this relative participates in this system, but doesn't have any other personal issues with people of other races. (That is, I'm disappointed that he participates in the system, not that he's not otherwise a bigot.)
• Odd, but one story I read suggested that one basis for the substituion was that Canadians were also bad tippers. Dunno.
• Monkeyfilter: Gay-loving libbral underground railroadin' weirdos
• I'd blame politics before geography, Capt. Otherwise they'd sure have to love them some Guatemalans.
• I moved here specifically because I loves me some mochachina. Imagine my disappointment.
• Yeah, it seems like it might be based on that, but the thing in the bars in Cleveland seems to me to take it a step further for two reasons: - The steps are taken to drive out the "Canadians" on the assumption that "good" clients will be actively scared away by them. (Not just because they're taking up a table and service that might otherwise be utilized by decent tippers, but more on the concept that the "Canadian" presence in the restaurant discourages the "desirable" clients from coming in at all. - I think in Cleveland they genuinely believe that it's not unreasonable to use "Canadians" as a code word, since they're so close to the border that running into actual Canadians now and then isn't unheard-of. In other words, they've gotten away with it for a long time because they didn't use something implausible, like, I don't know, "Elves."
• Damn it. Now I want coffee.
• Elves are generous tippers, but they don't seem to get that we don't use acrons as currency.
• That's just the Ohio elves.
• Sometimes I think that the fundies are right. There is no evolution. Or is it just that some of us haven't moved into the Anthropocene Epoch yet? (idiots are still stuck in the Cambrian with the rest of the one celled weirdos) MonkeyFilter: Pretty pretty please, with multicolored sprinkles?
• Sorry if it sounded like I was trying to start an anti-Southerner thread -- I'm from the Ft. Worth (TX) area and went to college in Houston, so I was genuinely interested because I'd never heard the term before.
• Why can't we all just get along with those racist fuckers?
• I didn't think you were trying to stir trouble, meridithea. I'm just as bumfuzzled as you. Now I wonder whether the assistant DA was from Cleveland. ;-)
• I'd rather be known as a canadian than an american. And I am an american.
• I wonder what kind of music you'd have to play to clear the bar of real Canadians?
• I don't know, but I know Rush and Neil Young attract them. I've never heard the Canadian-as-code-word thing either. But I notice the Captain's experience was in Florida, and I wonder if that wasn't a dislike of tourists masked as that of Canadians in general. Florida is a popular winter vacation destination, and the interior towns don't soak up the tourist cash the way the coastal ones do.
• With all the crazy shit going on in the Houston DA's office, you'd imagine they'd be clamoring to hire. But alas, I'm still an (as far as legal occupations are concerned) unemployed baby lawyer. Le sigh.
• Sorry, DumberThanPaint. I can recommend a good comic book shop in Houston, but that's about all the help I can give you :P But I'm sure you'll get the great lawyer job soon.
• By "bably lawyer," do you mean that you're a relatively neophyte attorney, or is your specialty something to do with young children? Not sarcastic; sincere curiosity.
• I didn't take it that way, meredithea. Threads about racism just go that direction pretty easily on their own, and everybody just starts yelling, and that's no fun. The black people/Canadians thing is new to me too. And very non-sequiturish, at least until verbminx explained the Cleveland context. Kind of screams for an SNL sketch or something... Bob and Doug McKenzie in a low-riding hoopdie, eh?
• a) This is insane. and b) I can't believe that people think that Canadian beer is good. I've been to Europe now - we have terrible, American-style beer. We should all bow our heads in shame. Actually, Canadians are "bad" tippers, because frankly our servers' wages are better than $2/hour, so we see fit to only give 15%.
• Canadian beer isn't good, generally. Unless it's from a craft-brewer in Montreal, and then it's manna from heaven. Only beer.
• 15% is fine, isn't it? *clutches wallet* Anyway, I've been using 'Canadian' as an insult for ages. Ever since I met Louis actually. *sups real ale*
• Ça sent la bière De Londres à Berlin Ça sent la bière Dieu qu'on est bien Ça sent la bière De Londres à Berlin Ça sent la bière Donne-moi la main C'est plein d'Uilenspieghel Et de ses cousins et d'arrière-cousins De Breughel l'Ancien C'est plein de gens du nord Qui mord comme un chien Le porc qui dort le ventre plein
• Thre are many excellent Canadian beers, none of which are made by Molson or Labatt's.
• There's a beer called Brueghel, I think.
• 15% is totally fine. I'm just pointing out that we do have a different tipping custom. And the farther south you go in the US, the more they tip because the less they pay their servers. Also, their restaurant food is really cheap - 20-25% of $5 isn't a big deal. I agree that artisan Canadian beer is amazing. But I think that as a country we have a much lower general expectation of beer quality than somewhere like Britain. The British equivalants of Molsons or Labatts make better beer than either of the two big Canadian brewers, and the microbrew stuff is widely available. I've gotten great ale at tiny pubs in the middle of nowhere.
• If you wander into a honky tonk and find it full of fat, white, good ole boy redneck bigots you could say "Dang! Look at all the Budweisers!"
• Then shout 'Squeal like a pig, boy' and whip the old chap out. Gets you served double quick, I find.
• Re British beer, I had a bottle of this a few weeks ago and would heartily recommend it.
• Sadly my former admiration for Young's has taken a bit of a knock since they closed the brewery and moved production to Bedford.
• Makes a darn fine ice cream float, though. I'm serious.
• This is my favourite British Scottish beer, and it's finally available at the LCBO here in Ontario!
• I have actually heard this term used in reverse. I was shopping in some store and they were playing "My Heart Will Go On" by Celine Dion. I overheard one shopper say to the other, "I hate when they play this nigger music."
• I've been talking to some Africans and some Irish about the African-American and Irish-American and XYZ-American thing. Our conclusion: we love you guys, but you probably don't want to leave your current home, so maybe it's time to start thinking of each other as Americans (or United Statesians if that's better)? There's some notion that the U.S. is a "melting pot", whereas Canada supports enclaves of different cultures (e.g. the distinct areas in Toronto). But the distinctions seem greater and longer lasting in the melting pot than in the enclave-based system. What's going on there?
• The US is not a "melting pot" except in a clichéd bit of lingo; the US is also full of enclaves. I would also disagree with jb's estimation of the Southern US, after living in FL for many years and traveling around now and then. There are plenty of places where average casual restaurant food isn't amazingly cheap. 16% is standardish and 20% isn't uncommon, but it isn't uncommon in the northern US either, except around unrepentant cheapskates who think 10% is OK and will short or dock the tip for any reason, even stuff well beyond the waitstaff's control. Also, Orlando is in the interior of FL and obviously soaks up the tourist dollars; there are plenty of places on the coast that don't. It just depends on what else has been plunked there and what major roads are nearby and where they run from. If you happen to live somewhere where there's a major resort or a cruise-ship dock, tourist money will flow through the area in spite of the general lousiness of your facilities (Merritt Square Mall, destination of many Port Canaveral cruise-ship stopovers, I'm looking at you). It's a complex topic affected by numerous factors.
• I think "melting pot" has kind of fallen out of favor as a description for the US, these days. Now the term social studies teachers are supposed to use is "salad bowl." This way, each culture can maintain its difference, yet taken together we're a tasty treat.
• maybe it's time to start thinking of each other as Americans Well, that right there's the trick. Until there's something resembling true equality in the US, it ain't gonna happen.
• I've never been to the South - I'm basing my estimation on the reactions of friends who have just emmigrated from the Southern US (rural Georgia, Atlanta area) and what they think is a good price for food, and how much you should tip. They think all the food is too expensive, that you should get refills, and that 20% is the expected tip.
• I think that Canadian-style multiculturalism works when you have so many ethnic groups (white and non-white) that there are no large majorities or even large minorities. But in lots of places in both Canada and the US, you get just two or three communities, and that seems to be when you get more tensions (as they feel threatened by each other). So people complain/worry about large Chinese communities in certain areas of Toronto, because they feel threatened. But in most of the city, everyone just blends in to a crazy mozaic. I don't know if there is a solution, but I do think that people can have as many identities as they have brain cells, so people can be American or Canadian or even (gasp!) both and other things too. That said, I don't think people should let their ethnicity reify them. Enjoy your heritage, have some good food, speak another language - but it's not who you are. Being overly ethnicentric is basically racism - you are defining people by their genetic heritage (even if it is yourself), not their character. I do think there is such a thing as Irish-American, Italian-American, African-American, etc, culture -- it's just not the same thing as Irish, Italian or African culture (especially as the last doesn't really exist). They are their own cultures, born out of the experience of those peoples in the new world. Foods, practices, ideas have changed and evolved away from the origin cultures. For African-Americans, that evolution has been one of the farthest from the original cultures because of the experience of slavery and the loss of language and connections to the old world. But the culture that has been born out of it is just as valuable and far more authentic than any attempt to find an African culture to adopt.
• )))) jb.