December 10, 2007

• rocket88's top 5 movie soundtracks: 5. Pulp Fiction - Great tunes and choice dialogue from the movie. 4. High Fidelity - John Cusack movies always have cool soundtracks. 3. Almost Famous - A best of 1973 collection. 2. Grosse Point Blank - See #4 1. The Big Chill - The movie was always secondary to the music.
• I agree with rocket88 except I've never seen The Big Chill nor heard the soundtrack. You'll all probably hate me, but I really like the soundtrack to Garden State. I also liked the movie.
• A truly great soundtrack is more than just a collection of good songs that fit the mood or the plot; it is another character in the film. Once Upon a Time in the West is my favorite film for the soundtrack; Ennio Morricone has a different theme for each character, and where the characters are intertwined, as with Frank and Harmonica, so are the themes. It's almost operatic. John Carpenter always does his own soundtracks (or at least did), and they were always simple yet very effective (Halloween, Escape from New York, Assault on Precinct 13, etc.) Goblin has made some of the best horror soundtracks ever, though mostly for Italian films (except Dawn of the Dead). Nothing dismays me more, after lazy scriptwriting, than a poorly conceived soundtrack. Some of those crappy Casio scores from 80s B-movies fill me with rage!
• Not that I don't also like soundtracks that are a collection of good songs that fit the plot; I love all of Scorcese's and Tarantino's soundtracks, and The Big Chill, A Clockwork Orange (all of Kubrick's actually), High Fidelity, etc. I just feel that music composed specifically for the film tends to be more evocative. And if you're not really good at picking just the right songs, they can end up being a distraction.
• In Good Will Hunting, there's a scene where the boys get in a big street fight, shot in slow motion, with Gerry Rafferty's Baker Street on the soundtrack. It's the stupidest song choice ever for the scene in question. It just doesn't fit.
• They were probably trying to do Scorcese. And FAILING.
• I loved the soundtrack in RUSHMORE. Loved everything about that movie, actually.
• I love Wes Anderson. The Royal Tenenbaums had a great soundtrack, too.
• On the other hand, IMO, those Bowie covers by Seu Jorge were about the only thing good about A Life Aquatic.
• I thought it was ok, but then I've always had a thing for Bill Murray.
• But -- but the interns had Glocks! And the cut-away boat -- tell me that wasn't magic.
• I'm not talking to you. You slammed The Thing.
• HW, tell Mr. Renault that his cruel words made Wilford Brimley cry.
• HW, tell Miss Koko that I'm glad.
• Again with the "one guy's opinion" thing: The cut-away boat was indeed awesome. Rest easy, Cap'n. Bill Murray r00lz, no doubt. When we get together now, once every couple of years, one childhood buddy and I still reference his lounge singer persona from SNL. "Star Wars, nothing but Star Wars...Close Encounters theme..." Have loved him ever since.
• Hey, you two, time to kiss and make up. Or whatever it is you people do in Canada.
• *hip-checks Renault into the wall, skates over to penalty box*
• *shirts kit, just for the hell of it*
• Whenever the subject of music in film comes up, one memory immediately pops into my head - the very first time I saw Sean Connery smash that spider perfectly in time to the 007 brass riff in Dr. No. It made my impressionable pubescent body tingle, and remembering it does the same. It's the kind of thing you hear with your entrails instead of your ears. *pulls Cap'n's tuque off, snaps koko's suspenders*
• I forgot to add: The main reason it struck me so was that until that point the music was just noodling along doing what most movie music does. Setting modos, adding color, and shit. But at that moment the orchestra decided to jump up out of the pit and join in the action onstage. The two levels collided.
• You are all wrong. It's that 'Der DER, de de de de de de de de, de DER DER, de de DER DER...' when the scrolling script comes up the screen. "It is a time of civil war...." Yee fucking haw.
• Pulp Fiction, for sure. My favorite "various artists" soundtrack, however, continues to be from "Until the End of the World" (an obscure but excellent Wim Wenders opus). Also really liked Bacharach's very first, the soundtrack from "After the Fox." Always wanted to listen to that while driving through Italy. Ennio Morricone and Lalo Schifrin are ALWAYS good. And heavens, let's not forget Herrmann's indelible "Psycho."
• Agreed on the soundtrack, but UNTIL THE END OF THE WORLD was so boring. In the "various artists" category, TRAINSPOTTING was a sweet soundtrack.
• Not to sound too much of a curmudgeonly note here but although (as noted by Koko) song collection scores can be effective for certain films, they pale in comparison to the emotional power and possibilities generated by a first rate composed score.IMHO, they should just pretty much hand John Williams the Oscar every year. People tend to associate him with big budget action films, something he does very well, but he is a wonderfully eclectic composer as well. I'm fond of the haunting score he did for "Sleepers", scored for electric bass and strings (and breathing) and his ingenious parody of "The Nutcracker" for "Home Alone" and his great jazz score, "Catch Me If You Can". Also, I have to mention James Horner's beautifully understated score for "The Dresser" (for horn and strings) and Rachel Portman's gorgeous, emotional score for "Joy Luck Club" which successfully utilised Chinese music elements especially the erhu. Her wacky score for "Benny and Joon" deserves applause as well. Also on my list: Jerry Goldsmith for "Planet of the Apes", Alex North for his unjustly discarded score to "2001", Dave Grusin for "The Firm", Randy Newman for "Toy Story", Thomas Newman for "American Beauty", Korngold for "The Adventures of Robin Hood" and scads more that I'm forgetting. One final note; I always thought that both Scorcese and Kubrick, great directors that they are/were, would have been even greater had they trusted the talents of top composers for some/all of their films rather on relying on "needle drop" scores- IMO a real blind spot for both men. Also, Howard Shore is a complete hack and should be forever shunned, his Oscar for "Lord of the Rings" not withstanding.
• I have to disagree re: Scorcese. The songs he chooses for his scores always fit the scene perfectly, which requires no small amount of talent. Look at the post-heist scene in Goodfellas; would an original composition have better suited that sequence than the last half of "Layla"? I never much cared for that part of the song, until I saw Goodfellas. Now every time I hear it, I think of that scene. It just captures the mood perfectly. I don't think it's always necessary to use an original score; the songs you select can be as good or better at setting the tone.
• I hear ya, kamus, but I think either approach can do the trick.
• Koko, as I said in my comment, song collection scores *can* be effective- "Goodfellas" is one of the better examples- I stand by my remarks otherwise. Also, Scorcese would undoubtedly have to take a back seat to the Music Supervisor/Music Editor on his films (Chris Brooks for "Goodfellas")- these people have a vast knowledge of music and the skill to fit existing music to film. Also, it was criminal of me not to mention Hermann's groundbreaking score to "Psycho".
• FIGHT!
• Choreographed fight scene with Queen's "You're My Best Friend" (or is it? I forget now) in Shaun of the Dead. Yes? Yes? I think so.
• It's Don't Stop Me Now. Best Friend plays at the end, methinks? I like the bit in Chicken Run where they all dance to that rock'n'roll song. Or that song where John Candy is driving in Planes Trains and Automobiles. He plays a bit of the piano on the steering wheel. Completely forgotten what it's called now. /rambling, uninformative post
• Also, it was criminal of me not to mention Hermann's groundbreaking score to "Psycho". Indeed! Coincidentally, last night I watched Taxi Driver (Scorcese), which he also did the score to. It was one of his last, and he almost didn't agree to it, stating "I don't do scores for films about cab drivers". /trivia
• You are a nerd.
• /snort
• Or that song where John Candy is driving in Planes Trains and Automobiles. He plays a bit of the piano on the steering wheel. Completely forgotten what it's called now. That's "Mess Around" by Ray Charles. Great scene - and I've played it on the dashboard piano many times myself.
• That's it! /rushes off to Limewire
• I would have to disagree on behalf of Kubrick. Exhibit A: 2001. While the choice of Zarathustra or Blue Danube may now be seen as cliche, he's the one who invented that cliche, with that film. It may not work as well now because it worked so well then. Similarly, with 2001, the movie also invented 'needle-drop' scores, due to Kubrick's dissatisfaction with the score that had been commissioned. On the other side, he used whacked-out modern classical stuff by Ligeti and that other guy, which surely would not have been familiar as a commercial recording, and worked perfectly well as any commissioned score. The emotion of the scene was conveyed non-verbally -- the monumentality and trepidation approaching the monolith on the moon, or otherworldliness and crapping-your-pantsness of Dave's final journey. The 'needle-drop' stuff was just as effective as anything commissioned could have been, and probably better, as Ligeti was in a league of his own. Exhibit B: Clockwork Orange. Here, Kubrick took the cliche of 'needle-drop' classical that he himself had invented, and turned it on its head. He took ordinary commercial classical recordings (William Tell), and sped them up for some of the rampage scenes. The effect was that here was something that was inately familiar to the audience, but unnerving at the same time. For all the brilliance of a Hermann score (though I'd prefer Vertigo to the hyperbole of Psycho, myself), because it was new to an audience, there remained some distance. Kubrick achieved the same emotional effect as a Hermann score, but gained greater intimacy through familiarity. At the same time, that effect was balanced out by using music that was previously associated with action or comedy -- so he alluded to that past. Thus, the unnerving was balanced by the comedic, and the viewer has no idea how they're supposed to feel, which was precisely the point. Exhibit C: Eyes Wide Shut. More Ligeti. Solo piano, stabbing all it encounters. A solo piano is typically an intimate sound, but here, it's intimate, but angry and accusatory -- but very refined. It's not an explosion of sound, a tirade. Instead, it's violence of a very calculated and personal nature. A perfect exposition of what the movie was about. And, as a movie score theme, it worked perfectly, coming up again and again at just the right moment, as well as anything that Jarre did for Lean, or Morricone did for anybody. Barry Lyndon, too. I couldn't disagree on music being a Kubrick 'weak-spot' more. It was as controlled and considered an element as anything else he did.
• nerd
• And I didn't even mention Vera Lynn at the end of Strangelove, or the drums in Paths of Glory. I thought I was being restrained...
• Two words: High. Lander.
• The Apocalypse Now soundtrack, notably "drop the needle," is amazing. I think it's silly to say one approach is better than the other. Does it work? Either can result in a "yes" response to that question. Though good on kamus for making the distinction explicit, and calling more attention to scores/soundtracks created specifically for films.
• I would have to disagree on behalf of Kubrick. Jane, you ignorant slut! Seriously, despite the success of "2001" and the now iconic nature of the pieces used (notably the contributions by the two Strausses) it is widely felt in the professional circles that "2001" could have been better yet, a view propounded by not only North but Jerry Goldsmith and many other experts in film music. The film is what it is and it's difficult to imagine it any other way but having heard North's score, I can imagine it another way. A few years ago a special screening of North's score with the film led to a widespread conviction that Kubrick had made a huge error. Contrary to your assertion that Kubrick was dissatisfied with North's score, he went the needle drop route more out of being married to his scratch score and studio pressure. This is a common phenomenon among directors and editors- they hear a piece of music (often hastily chosen) with their film and within a short period of time, they can no longer imagine it any other way. This a pitfall in the scoring business, "temp-music syndrome" and I and virtually every other working composer has to deal with it. This phenomenon is in fact likely at the root of your remarks as well. It is difficult to think of it any other way. The fact is that virtually *any* music can bond with any piece of film and start to seem "right" within a short period of time, but that does not make it the only or best choice. One notorious problem with needle drop music is the lack of synchronisation with the on screen action-one of film music's most powerful tools- and if one wants an effective score, then one must do as Kubrick did with the beginning of "2001" and cut the film to fit the music, an unsatisfactory solution and a rather backwards approach to filmmaking much of the time, though it worked beautifully in the film. In the section with the spaceship on its long voyage to Jupiter, he was forced into an even more unsatisfactory solution: cutting existing music to fit the film. The "Gayane Ballet Suite" used in that section could have been easily replaced by a better piece of composed music and in fact was in North's original score. Kubrick's naivete about film music was exemplified by this quote: "However good our best film composers may be, they are not a Beethoven, a Mozart or a Brahms. Why use music which is less good when there is such a multitude of great orchestral music available from the past and from our own time? " Aside from the inherent insult to film composers, here he is making a comparison with Classical Music and Film Music which are two different animals. Sure, one can "Frankenstein" Classical music to make it work in film and this is exactly what was done in the Silent Film era, at least initially but even those early practitioners realized the limitations of that approach and swiftly moved to create customized music. The Star Gate sequence was a big loser in the film to this as there is little in the way of synchronization to what is arguably the climax of the film. Yes, Ligeti's idiom was highly appropriate for the sequence but any decent composer could have taken those same textures and wedded them to the film (as North did) to greater effect.
• As far as your other points: Clockwork Orange was not a pure needle drop affair. Wendy Carlos was in large measure responsible for the excellent music- a rare case of Kubrick getting it right and the use of 'Singing in the Rain" was both chilling and brilliant. One might not remember the other music in the film- the best scores are seamlessly wed to the action- that's usually a good sign. We tend to remember song scores precisely because they jump out at us and are usually chosen because of the lyrics- a rather jarring abstraction much of the time. "Eyes Wide Shut" is one of the worst scores in a Kubrick film, ever and in particular the four bar loop from the Ligeti etudes that you seem so enamored of, was singled out by many reviewers as maddening and ineffective. The incorporation of the Shostakovich waltz for the dance scene was better, but all in all EWS was another tragic opportunity lost. Naturally, these are all subjective arguments but they are arguments with a large percentage of adherents among film music professionals. Stanley, however would be very happy that you took his side. /pompous windbag
• Pfft. *waves hand dismissively*
• ;)
• *would like to take a film music course with kamus*
• Nice comeback, Louis.
• I do what I can.
• By the way, Wendy Carlos used to be Walter Carlos. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
• The 50 greatest rock soundtracks.