October 26, 2007

• Hmmmm, that was supposed to be a Furious George? What happened? *shrugs
• Most utility companies are doing this. It's because their cost to process the credit card transaction is quite high. By Visa/Mastercard/Amex/Discover regulations, businesses are not allowed to charge a surcharge for accepting credit cards. But what they can (and do) do is charge a "convenience fee" for paying over the phone or internet. New York State Electric and Gas (my power company) charges a "phone convenience fee" for paying over the phone, but waives that fee if you pay via ACH (check by phone). Some businesses pass along the cost of processing credit cards to you buy upping prices and then giving a "cash discount". (We're seeing that at gas pumps here a lot.) Some businesses pass along the cost of processing by just plain raising prices. Some businesses (Wal-Mart, I'm looking at your class-action-suit-bringing-bloated carcass), try to trick you into using your check card as a debit, since those transactions are much cheaper. Costs for processing a credit card where the card isn't present are rising astronomically, due to fraud, so it's not surprising. This is the way the credit world is going, so my advice is to just use the stamp. /banker
• Just as an example, if your electric bill is $100.00, the utility is probably paying 2%-3% ($2 to $3) to their credit card processor.
• If you pay by debit, it's probably costing them (1%) one dollar for your hundred dollar payment.
• I've found that some companies will set up an "auto debit" at no charge, but charge a hefty fee if you want to do a one time online payment... I suspect the thinking is.. "this idiot waited 'til the last minute to pay, and in order to avoid a shut off, interest hike, whatever, we've got him over a barrel, suck out the money..." Exactly what happened when I forgot to mail a credit card bill, they got the big $5 charge for the online payment...
• See?...It's all the greedy bank's fault. They're the ones charging a fee for electronic transactions that are actually cheaper for them. They're the ones making a (huge) profit-generating sub-business out of what should be a cost savings passed on to the customer (yeah...right!). They're the ones who claim an electronic funds transfer takes 3-4 days to process when in reality it takes milliseconds (guess who owns the funds for those 3-4 days?) Did I mention that I hate banks?
• They're also almost certainly offering free checking with free debit/atm transactions, (possibly) unlimited check writing, at least one order of checks for free, free online banking, free online bill pay. Mine even pays me back for foreign ATM fees I'm charged and gives me substantial interest on the account, with no minimum balance. All of this costs banks money, but they normally don't ask for a dime for it. Not in the US, anyway. So yeah, they charge fees to businesses to process debit and credit card transactions, to cover their expenses going through a third party company to handle those cards, and (gasp) make a profit on those fees. Bastards.
• I don't think they're making a "(huge) profit-generating sub-business". Consider that on my example, the $100 payment, they were barely covering their cost. Now consider someone making a $300 payment. They're losing money. They maybe make that up with the cheaper debit transactions, but I really don't think it adds up to a massive profit. And it's not the banks that set the fees. The card companies (MC/Visa, et al) set Interchange Rates every April. The banks add a small percentage for their costs and a very small profit margin. I've been working in credit cards for nearly a decade, and I can tell you that the profits margin is about .3 %. You have to do a lot of transactions to make that pay. This really is not a racket, or The Man trying to get you any way he can. It's a legitimate cost that can be passed on two ways: You can pay by transaction, or your utility rates can go up to cover the cost across the board. The utilities are not in business as a convenience, but to make money. Same with the banks.
• Make that profit margin. And don't get me started on why small "Mom and Pop" businesses can hardly afford to take credit cards. If you want to talk about a racket or a monopoly, look to the big 4 card companies.
• their cost to process the credit card transaction is quite high Ah HA!! So that's why they don't even give me the option of paying by debit card. Why 1% to process on a debit card? It shouldn't cost more than 2 cents, IF THAT!! It's all electronic, you can't tell me that they have to cover the overhead of running the bank with the income generated by electronic payments. companies will set up an "auto debit" at no charge Yeah, been there, been screwed with that. Never, ever, ever again. If you pay late, they want their late charge. If they withdraw late... They want their late charge. Like that was MY fault? Banks are the scum of the earth, barely above credit card companies. There should be a big, fat tax on that interest the banks generate from using our dollars. That's the interest they're screwing US out of. Is it credit fraud that is the major complaint, or is it non-payment? I thought it was non-payment that they were claiming determined the high charges of credit card companies. Credit card companies are the foulest creations on earth. I used to not have much sympathy for people who generated credit card debt and then didn't pay. Now I know how bad credit card companies suck people in, especially young people, and when that happens, there's hardly any getting out of that miserable hole. Get in too deep, can't pay, usury ensues, fat late fees, charges here, charges there, sold to a collection company with more charges--they can't ever see daylight. Or Gog forbid, here's a conservative, financially tidy family on the edge, no insurance, something happens, whether it be medical with no/not enough insurance, the roof leaks, dad loses a job, they try to be fiscally responsible and cover one debt, put it on a card, are 4 days late for one payment, and BANG, they're in for 32fuckin% interest. grrrrrrr.....
• Hmm...I pay $13/month for my "free" services, and get about half the ones you mentioned. And online services don't cost banks money - not when compared to the human tellers they used to use.
• There are bad credit card companies. It's absolutely true. This industry is full of sharks. But fraud is massive. I was a fraud investigator for some time, and it's truly scary how many millions in fraud happen each day. Now, you're looking at two things here. First, credit card rates are higher due to non-payment. That's one issue. Second, merchant rates (what banks charge businesses to process credit cards, and these are highly affected by fraud) are a totally separate thing. These rates are determined by MC/Visa/Amex/Discover. Banks have no say in them whatsoever, except to add their small percentage to cover costs and an extremely narrow profit margin. And even though that transaction is electronic, it has to cost more than 2 cents. Follow a debit transaction from beginning to end: 1. You give your debit card number (and possibly PIN) 2. That transaction goes through the merchant's system (purchase of system cost involved) and is sent to their processor. (Cost involved) 3. Merchant's processor sends the transaction to a switch (network that determines how when and where to send said transaction, such as NYCE, STAR in the US) (Cost involved) 4. Switch sends transaction to your bank (assuming you're in the US and so is the merchant you're at.) 5. Your bank's system (cost of purchase involved) checks to see if you have money. 6. If you do, the transactions follows this path back to the merchant, with all costs involved again. This is debit, which is cheaper than credit. Someone has to pay for all these networks, websites, computers, staff, power, databases, etc. Just because it's fast it doesn't mean it's easy or cheap.
• They're also almost certainly offering free checking with free debit/atm transactions Which costs significantly less than the oldfangled method involving bank branches (with leasing costs, utility costs) and tellers, I'd imagine. Really, you shouldn't trust banks as far as you can throw 'em. They're the pinnacle of passing on as many costs as possible to others.
• free checking with free debit/atm transactions, (possibly) unlimited check writing, at least one order of checks for free, free online banking, free online bill pay. Mine even pays me back for foreign ATM fees I'm charged Free WHAT? You may have free thisis and thatses, but I sure don't. Your free checking comes about because you can keep a minimum balance each month or have enough in a savings to qualify for a "preferred customer" account. Not everybody can afford to do that. I would imagine for every "preferred customer" there are a dozen poor slobs that pay for the banking. I do know that they sock the poor slob that can't carry a minimum balance of $1000+/month with big fat fees on other things, also. I like my credit union. They're much, much better than any bank I ever used, but I pay a service charge every month, and they want nearly eight dollars a box for checks that I can get for two dollars on-line. The line of credit is a wonderful thing, as is the check guarantee, and I am very careful about watching out for it, but I've seen other people get nailed big time for a $4.00 overdraft that rolled over into $300 of fees and penalties. Again, it happens to people living on the edge, trying to make it in an economy that keeps getting tighter and tighter. It happened last month with my daughter. Her automatic pay wasn't credited for two weeks--work said it went out, bank said they didn't have it, everybody shrugs, guess who gets screwed. It's not like she hasn't had autopay for SIX freakin' years now. Yeah, sure, her fault that she doesn't take the time to check EVERY TWO WEEKS that the CU does their job. (it was the CU fault, but her work helped her out by paying part of the fees, AND they apologized, WHEN IT WASN'T THEIR FAULT--not the CU) When it's your fault, you pay. When it's their fault, you pay. The bottom line on banks: Check their annual report for their profit. Check what they pay their shareholders. Figure what they pay out in interest to YOU on your savings versus what THEY make off the money you have banked with them. Banks aren't hurting. And credit card companies are scum.
• Hmm...I pay $13/month for my "free" services, and get about half the ones you mentioned. ... You may have free thisis and thatses, but I sure don't. Oh, see, you live in bad places. Move someplace where there's more competition, morans! And online services don't cost banks money - not when compared to the human tellers they used to use. Sure they do. There's not as much paper processing, but I guarantee you their web guys are making at least double their tellers, plus paying third-shift on call people, plus bandwidth, plus they're almost certainly paying fees for the software (unless they roll their own, in which they have to fund an entire software development office). It costs plenty to support and maintain web apps.
• I know it costs us plenty to maintain an ATM network and a card base. My department has barely made a dollar this year. ATMs are an expected convenience that makes no profit whatsoever.
• Sorry if I'm taking over this thread. And don't get me wrong, I am absolutely furious over a lot of banking practices. But I think credit card fees aren't the heart of the problem, but a non-issue. Let's talk predatory and undisclosed lending...
• So, am I to understand that in order to get Larababy to talk to me, I need only whisper out some sweet credit-card talk? This changes everything.
• Move someplace where there's more competition, morans! Less and less possible with banking industry consolidation.
• Banks and credit card companies seem to have had a hard time figuring out how to deal with electonic transfers. When I first got an ATM card in Oklahoma back in the early 70s, usage was blissfully free because Okla. had banned branch banking, so their abiliity to have a little kiosk that allowed you to do business allowed them to expand their business. When I moved back California in about 1980, interstate banking was just getting started, and I could use my ATM card in other states if I could find a sister bank, because it allowed them to expand.... When I moved to New Jersey around 1990, the inter-bank network was pretty much in place, and banks were beginning to charge for getting cash from other banks. When I moved back to California in 1996, the bank I signed up with cautioned me that if I went to a actual human teller to do business I could be charged. Apparently, the cost of employees was more expensive than that of the network. I still have free checking, and write checks, but when I use my debit card for purchases, I have to reimburse vendors for the fees they pay to the card carrier, whether through increased price or by an additional charge at the cash register. None of this is news. I seem to remember that before "free checking" came along, I paid a monthly fee for check processing. The reimbursement has just been farmed out. Businesses are going to do the best they can to recoup costs. If they don't charge individuals for usage, they'll add to rates to spread it across all users. That's their job.
• How Canada's Banks Really Make Their Money bankers say only five per cent of their revenues come from personal service fees. The way I read that, is that if banks (Canadian ones, at least) could live with 95% of their enormous, obscene profits, they could eliminate service fees altogether. The fact that they don't tells me exactly how they feel about regular, non-corporate customers.
• Eggsackly! I don't mind paying a reasonable fee to cover a service. REASONABLE, dammit!! I don't think you, and I, and all the other customers should have to pay 3000% over what is necessary on their operating costs. Don't kid yourself; look at their bottom line. The banks are doing very well. Shall we next discuss tax breaks and how much money goes overseas rather than 'trickling down' to keep our economy strong? Trickle down. hahahaha
• I don't know about Canadian banks, but US banks aren't making obscene profits. The margin is narrowing so much, the industry is scrambling. Bank of America Profit Tumbles Oil prices, bank profits spook Wall St UPDATE 1-U.S. regional bank profits fall as loan losses rise And hundreds more stories like that. Granted, some of that is the banks' own fault, as a fallout of variable rate mortgages that never should have been made. But even sound institutions that never made shady loans can't change the Fed prime rate. It's not a profit frenzy in the industry, despite what everyone might think. And again, your $2.85 convenience fee does not represent any profit at all in most cases, just enough (if not enough at all) to cover costs. Captain, wanna talk about interest rates?
• P.S. GramMa, your article is from January. A lot has changed since then.
• From the Idaho Power website: "When you sign up for e-bill service, you will receive an e-mail each month when your bill is available to view. The e-bill will look exactly like your paper bill with all of the same information. You have the option to print the bill and mail your check payment or simply click a button to pay your Idaho Power bill online through Checkfree at no cost." http://www.idahopower.com/customerservice/yourhome/payments/ePayments.htm
• Signing up for e-billing service seems to be the catch. They appear to be willing to waive the fee if they don't have to send out a paper invoice.
• Been there, been screwed by that paperless invoice stuff. Thought it would be very convenient as well as environmentally sound to go paperless. Absolutely amazing how things were balled up. Fortunately, I had saved a years e-copys of the paperless bills on file so that I could print them out and correct a little payment error they made (in their favor, of course.) The woman at the office made the comment that she'd never had anyone bring in printed copies of a year's worth of ebills and confirmation receipts on a $50.00 error before. Hey, it's MY $50.00. Never again. Have told both the power and phone company to send me paper. Not to mention, CheckFree sucks. My CU will pay direct, but there's a big hassle to get set up with the utilities, so I use that for other bills, but not IP. Jill from IP sent me a very courteous email, understand your concerns, canned spiel, blah, blah, blah, other options, blah, blah blah. Thank you Jill, I do feel better now, and if I get any money for stock options, it will go to your company alternate energy development. Yeah, I feel bad for Bank America with their tumbling profits. Profit from consumer and small-business banking, the bank's main business, fell 16 percent to $2.45 billion. Profit from consumer and small-business banking, the bank's main business, **IS $2.45 billion.** Sounds a little different worded that way, doesn't it? Only $2.45 billion? How sad. There are countries with their GNP approximating that. When is enough profit, enough?
• MonkeyFilter: courteous email, understand your concerns, canned spiel, blah, blah, blah, other options, blah, blah blah.
• Well, yes. Companies shouldn't make profits.
• Johnson & Johnson net profit slips down to $2.6. Why are banks more evil than Band-Aid makers?
• Sorry, that should read $2.6 billion. I think it's because we expect to pay for goods, but we don't think we should pay anybody to manage, hold or transact money.
• BofA's profits have tumbled because the investment banking unit made bad trades. There's a reason the Bible calls out the moneylenders!
• OK, read this all in one sitting. Four things: 1. Monkeyfilter: I'm looking at your class-action-suit-bringing-bloated carcass 2. I thought I was the only one who used the word "oldfangled!" I love you guys. 3. My CU will pay direct, but there's a big hassle to get set up with the utilities, so I use that for other bills, but not IP. Yeah, I set up automatic payments through my credit union three times; three times something didn;t take and my bills didn't get paid. Of course, my problem is my own absent-mindedness. 4. I hit Lara up for advice when my credit card number was stolen recently, and this seems like a good place for some public thanks for what turned out to be wise counsel indeed.
• No thanks are necessary. I hate the fraud-perpetrating bastards almost as much as I hate Diebold. Now, as far as bank profits, this is where my outrage-o-meter goes off.
• We should disband all corporations, all religious institutions and all forms of government and revert to a society of hunter-gatherers. With high speed, wireless internet access.
• I'm with you, Lara. But my distrust begins to simmer way earlier, in the way that (when it comes to who gets the benefit of the doubt, in disagreements, the bank or the consumer ... or the way banks can start benefiting from my funds within a day of my depositing a check, while they can make me wait a week to access those same funds ... and so on) almost all consumer interactions with banks are weighted in favor of the banks. Nobody's saying we should disband all corporations -- just that they shouldn't be allowed to do whatever they want, and that having a good society demands heeding the needs of the people at least as much as heeding the desires of the corporations.
• YES, HW!!! My point exactly. Corporations (and those who run them) need to be good citizens. As of now, they are not. More like bloated maggots, I would say. This is an example of the type of big bail-out we give the big guys. Why? As for the poor, sad banking industry, I was listening to NPR this morning, and the consensus seems to be that the hit was not as great as first reported, that US banks, thru selling loans, have managed to pass on the problem to overseas banking concerns. Germany, in particular, has been hit with the results of the US housing blast.
• I agree that's wrong. I still don't agree charging a fee for a service makes banks evil. Most people seem to think that if a bank is in business for profits, it's teh ebil.
• Or makes power companies evil, for that matter and to get back on track for the OP.
• Again, nobody's saying banks shouldn't charge fees for services, or that banks shouldn't be profitable. It's just that based on plentiful evidence there's lots of suspicion that banks are gonna take unfair amounts of your money wherever possible. I still don't quite understand why, if ATMs are such cost centers, the trend in consumer banking is to close full-service branches and open more and more ATM locations. I guess ultimately I question whether ATMs are really such cost centers relative to bank branches. Same basic suspicion exists for power companies, and for Big Pharma companies, and for big corporations almost across the board, because it's in their nature to make a profit wherever they can. Passing on costs is one thing, gouging customers is another. I mean, to get back to GramMa's FPP, nearly $3 to process an online bill payment? I have a hard time believing it costs the power co. nearly $3 to process an online bill payment. Whether it's the power co., or the bank/credit card company, or both, I've got a hunch somebody's making an exorbitant margin on that transaction. /rant
• If I recall correctly, credit card companies charge vendors a percentage of the payment for the convenience of selling off the collection costs. Seems to me, I heard they charged 7%. We don't know how much BlueHorse's bill was, but here in southern Calif, our winter bills have run $300 to $400 per month. If her bill were $300, the credit card agency would have wanted $21 at 7%, which might be acceptable for a vendor that prefers not to process paper checks. $2.85 may reflect additional costs for an account that hasn't established regular on-line payments. Lara, help me out here!
• As I said up above, HW, it's neither the power company or the bank. It's Visa/MC/Amex/Discover. The rates they charge banks for internet transactions are around 2-3 percent. So, yes, it does cost the power company that much, and it costs the bank that much. Which I think answers path's question, too.
• P.S. Visa offers some utility companies a special rate of 75 cents per transaction on recurring payments, which means if your power company has negotiated this special rate with Visa and their processor/bank, that explains why they don't charge you for recurring payments, but do charge for the odd one-time payment.
• So how'd Visa get this ability to gouge? REVOLT!
• I've had this discussion with the firms I've worked for: I don't think customer service should be a profit generator. If your business is selling products, make enough profit on your margins to pay for your customer service costs - or, at the very least, make your customer service revenue-neutral. Same goes for banks. They make their money on the spread between interest charged to borrowers and interest paid to lenders. And they make a lot on that spread. I don't think they need to top it off with further profits on the backs of lower and middle class customers who just want a checking acoount and a debit card. I don't begrudge them their profits from their main business. The extra they get from the little guy comes off as greed.
• But, see, taking a credit card payment isn't customer service. It's a transaction that the power company has to pay for. As for banks, that profit spread is shrinking. So they're making up the money with fees. And why should the little guy expect to get everything for free? You get a service, you pay for it. You can keep your money in your mattress for free.
• Now, the above position does not include making the consumer pay for your stupid speculative/shady/greedy lending practices that have now come back to bite you as well they should. I just don't get the attitude that banks should be like libraries, with services free like a public convenience. They're in business to make money, just like any other company that sells any other service.
• Can I pay online with my debit card and not have to pay the fee? The power co's transaction costs on that one shouldn't be thousands of percent more expensive than processing a check sent by snailmail, not in that case. Seems like there we'd be dealing with the bank on which the payment is drawn in either case, and the IT costs of the online transaction should probably be less than the costs associated with processing the snailmail payment, which include significantly more payroll and office overhead in addition to IT costs. And for the umpteenth time, nobody's saying that banks shouldn't make a profit, just that they and all businesses should be watched to make sure they do it fairly.
• See, to me customer service is things like answering questions, resolving problems, and being polite and professional. When I get my hair cut, the haircut isn't the customer service. It's a service sold to the customer.
• But allowing you to pay for your haircut by credit card or debit card *is* a customer service, and it's normally not charged to the customer. More and more businesses, however, are beginning to charge customers for these services, and even adding in a little margin for themselves. That's what I have a problem with.
• Actually, if you pay by debit, it's still 1-2%, charged by the "switch" to your bank. That's NYCE, STAR, etc. Do it does cost more than processing a check. Now, you could argue they shouldn't charge you, but the market being the market, that just means they'll raise prices to cover costs. They're not gonna give away anything.
• Shoud be so, not do. The pricing structure is confusing, but honest to god, the power company really is paying for that transaction if you do it via the internet or phone with a card, and it's not the just 1/100th of a penny of electricity.
• Actually, if you pay by debit, it's still 1-2%, charged by the "switch" to your bank. That's NYCE, STAR, etc. So it does cost more than processing a check. ...honest to god, the power company really is paying for that transaction Totally understood, Lara. There's still dissonance here, though, for a variety of reasons: 1. It doesn't cost me anything to use my debit card in bricks and mortar locations 2. I assume banks use some kind of fee-transfer IT system to clear printed checks; why do I get charged for using the NYCE system but not that one? (If you respond, "You're already paying for that via your standard account fees," I can't help but ask why that's not also the case with ATMs and suchlike.) It is confusing, and I think it's always worth asking questions in these instances instead of adopting an "it's all good because businesses need to make a profit" attitude. My assumption is that the bottom line is that banks and other financial institutions took advantage of blue-sky scenarios when society switched over relying more on branches and tellers and printed checks and manual check clearing to ATMs and debit cards to pass along to customers costs that previously had been part of their cost of doing business. Surely it's understandable that that raises questions of fairness.
• Or, on preview, what rocket said.
• I still maintain the information is in the annual reports--maybe hidden in the small print, but there. Go to your closest large public or university library and look at half dozen. It's pretty amazing what the profit margins are for power companies, phone companies and banks, let alone large corporations. Trace a few subsidiaries and see who owns what and are connected. Might shock you. And dammit, why is it when I try to post good links, I get 12 replies? When I get grouchy one evening and gritch, I get a discussion. *goes away growling
• I gave up posting good links when tracicle started charging me $2.85 per.
• It doesn't cost me anything to use my debit card in bricks and mortar locations Face-to-face transactions are cheap compared to mail order/telephone order/internet transactions. You want confusion? Here are Visa's current interchange rates. Mastercard pretty much follows what Visa does. Amex and Discover rates are quite a bit higher, which is why most small businesses choose not to honor those cards at all. This is just what processors or banks pay, not including the profit they add, which is usually about .5 % Note that supermarkets get a fabulous rate. They have to meet high transaction thresholds. In other words, the more sales you have, the cheaper your processing. CPS is Custom Payment Service, which requires meeting certain transaction criteria, including usually that the card and cardholder be present. The Utility rate is only given with prior authorization from Visa, and only for recurring payments. And only to companies processing a huge amount of card transactions. Also note, if you use a Rewards card, the merchant pays more. If you use a Business card, the merchant pays more. Bricks-and-mortar stores have just built the cost of processing (which is considerably less than the cost of non-face-to-face transactions) into their prices. The utilities, new to the game, are charging. Soon I assume they'll just build it into your power rates, and everyone will pay. It seems to tick the customers off less.
• Remember Reddy Kilowatt?
• Face-to-face transactions are cheap compared to mail order/telephone order/internet transactions. That I can't believe.
• Why not? There's much less risk of fraud for face-to-face transactions. The card is there, the store can compare signatures (although I know they often don't). Very little fraud happens face-to-face, so lower investigation and processing costs. Over the internet, you could be dealing with someone who has stolen a card number by a phishing scheme, hacking an online store's database, etc. Most card fraud happens without the actual card present, via the internet. And if you fail to believe me, you can check out the link above. A face-to-face supermarket transaction on a regular Visa (not foreign, no airline miles, not a business card) is processed by Visa at the rate of 1.03% + 10 cents. A transaction with the same card at an online retailer goes at 1.85% + 10cents if the retailer has met certain certification criteria. If not, it jumps up to 2.7% + 10 cents. So $100 worth of groceries in your supermarket costs the store $1.13 plus whatever fees the bank/processor charges. The same $100 in a non-face-to-face online transaction costs anywhere from $1.95 to $2.80, plus whatever fees the bank/processor charges, PLUS the fees of the required gateway (Verisign, Cybercash, etc.). Bank fees are higher for e-commerce due to fraud risk. So that same $100 could cost the online merchant anywhere from $2.00 to $4.00. I'm not making it up. Check the above link. Seriously.
• P.S. Check out page 10 of this Visa merchant manual. It explains what Visa merchants can and can't due with convenience fees.
• I hate discussions wherein someone actually knows something.
• Lara: I can see that both links tell WHAT they charge, there's even info on the expenses, my question is how much they make from it. Charges - expenses = profit How much is their profit? You can't tell me they aren't making any.
• Yes, but the profit is Visa's, not the power company's or the bank's/processor's. I think the power company is likely breaking even or even losing on the deal. As I said, most banks make around .5%.
• In other words, what I've been saying is that the power company probably spent about $3 to process your payment. No profit at all.
• Some stuff I've found recently about the nefariousnessism of banks and credit card companies: Dubious Fees Hit Borrowers in Foreclosure Credit Card Industry Resists Change As Fees Shock Many The Worst Credit Card Industry Practices Raw Deal: Killer Credit Card Fees Ripoff: Visa/Mastercard's "Foreign Transaction Fee" Credit Card Fees Rise, Disclosure Statements Inadequate Brussels Targets "Rip Off" Credit Card Fees Senators Grill Bank Execs on "Unfair" Credit Card Fees
• Wow, Hawthorne, you sure did some research. Reading them all in a row makes me want to hurt someone!