March 11, 2004

ETA suspected in Madrid bombings. I have long been fascinated by the mysterious Basque & have some general knowledge of the ETA/Basque separatist issues...they are historically rooted much more deeply than most people realize. For a more scholarly source on these matters also see Emmanuel Leroy Lauderie's Montaillou, the Promised Land of Error, a definitive work.
posted by Medusa 20 years ago
  • my first FPP and I f*cked it up! I don't know why it posted twice, sorry.
  • I've noticed that on my IE6 browser I hit "Post new link" to post a new topic. It takes the click but there's never any feedback... the page just sits there. In reality the story is actually posted. I wonder if others are having this problem. I believe it's the root cause of double-posts.
  • timmus, that is exactly what happened.
  • I've had the same problem as timmus and Medusa. Also, here are BBC and Washington Post articles on the bombings.
  • I've had the same problem previewing comments, but not posting them. Mozilla/5.0 (Windows; U; Windows NT 5.0; en-US; rv:1.5a) Gecko/20030728 Mozilla Firebird/0.6.1
  • The paper I work for (in Ireland) is carrying six pages on the bombings tomrrow - the last time it ran so much on one event was September 11. It's a black day for Spain. Ireland's 'freedom fighters', the IRA, have been linked with Eta in the past. And I vividly remember watching TV reports of the Omagh Bombing in 1998, and how sickened I felt. My thoughts, whatever they're worth, are with the people in Madrid.
  • Are you by chance confusing Basques with Cathars? There's nothing about Basques on that page you linked. I've read Montaillou, which is indeed a good book, but it's not about Basques. (And it all seems a pretty recondite distraction from a post about the bombing, which has nothing to do with medieval history and lots to do with the modern international terror network sponsored by the IRA.)
  • languagehat, yr comments are very valid. I didn't phrase my post as clearly as I could have. My point re the Cathars & the inquisition was more in regards to politico-economic oppression of the pyrenees-dwellers by the "official" rulers in Paris (medievally), and today, by France & Spain. while I in no way condone the bombings, which are tragic, there are deeper currents to the "propaganda" that underlies actions of the ETA, some of which are rooted in the Cathar inquistion, which the Basque were certainly caught up in. One of the salient features of Inquisition policy was the confiscation of property of those suspected of Cathar sympathies. These things can leave very deep scars. I am a history fanatic, so I am always interested in the underlying currents that influence modern events & policies. Any one Basque out there? I would love to hear the perspective of someone with first-hand knowledge...
  • Is there some historic link between the Basques and Cathars that I'm missing?After googling for Basque History. There is pretty much no mention of Cathars on those pages. I'd really like to read what Wikipedia has to say on this whole issue, but for some reason I'm getting a connection refused error for that site. If anyone with more knowledge could clarify the history of it all, that would be great.
  • Here's a UPI article
  • It works for me, bah. This page on the attacks has a lot of information on it already, although I don't know how much is fact and how much is still speculation.
  • My thoughts: this wasn't the work of amateurs. These attacks were well planned and coordinated. The terrorists that are responsible wanted to kill enough people to create attention. Bombs on four different trains suggest as much. Everyone is pointing the finger Eta, but I wouldn't rule out Al Qaeda. They certainly have pulled off attacks of this magnitude.
  • Apparently, Islamicists have not been ruled out. [en espa
  • Anyone who wants to read Montaillou
  • Taken from usenet. I didn't really do all the math, but it looks legit: Days after 9/11/2001 ---------------------------- 9/11/2001 = Day 0 9/11/2002 = 364 Days 9/11/2003 = 729 Days September 30th = 748 Days October 31st = 779 Days November 30th = 809 Days December 31st = 840 Days January 31st, 2004 = 871 Days February 29th, 2004 = 900 Days March 11th, 2004 = 911 Days Madrid Bombings = 3/11/2004 = 911 Days after 9/11
  • Madrid Bombings = 3/11/2004 = 911 Days after 9/11 Man, that's really fucking weird. It might turn out to be Al Qaeda. I don't think anyone hear would be surprised. Whether it is or not, Spain's government (with good reason) will come down on ETA with the hammer of God. No one needs to see their loved one's body parts on television.
  • Here is some history on ETA.
  • According to the Osama clock, it's been 912 days, 6 hours, and 20 minutes since the first plane hit the first World Trade Center tower on September 11, 2001, so the bombing did occur on day 911.
  • Supposedly an al Qaeda operation has claimed responsibility, although the claims haven't been verified yet. One claim of responsibility for the rush-hour attacks on trains at three stations was e-mailed to the London-based Arabic newspaper al-Quds al-Arabi. It said Spain had been targeted by the Abu Hafs al-Masri Brigades on behalf of al-Qaeda as "one of the pillars of the crusade alliance". "This is part of settling old accounts with Spain, the crusader, and America's ally in its war against Islam," the e-mail said.
  • When I do the math with the dates, I end up being one off from the Usenet post: 9/11/2001 = 0 9/12/2001 = 1 9/11/2002 = 365 9/11/2003 = 730 9/30/2003 = 749 10/31/2003 = 780 11/30/2003 = 810 12/31/2003 = 841 1/31/2004 = 872 2/29/2004 = 901 3/9/2004 = 910 3/10/2004 = 911 3/11/2004 = 912
  • I got this from Josh Marshall's blog: As of 2:55 PM CNN is running this breaking headline: "Spanish interior minister says new line of Madrid blast investigation opened after police find van with detonators and Arabic-language tapes. Details soon." This is looking like al Qaida.
  • Mackerel, are you counting the leap year?
  • Do Americans realise that they're the only ones who use the month/day/year system? (rather than the rest of us who use day/month/year)? Mundus vult decipi
  • 2/29/2004 = 901
  • I was wondering that too, BigCalm. Maybe, i we look hard enough, we could find 119 somewhere in the numbers, too. Or maybe 120. Ah, sorry, but the 911 days things seems like numerology gone bad. I'm going to bed now, anyway. So good night. Maybe I feel slightly more human tomorrow. Its just today I've felt absolutely sickened all day. Without wanting to descend into hyperbole, but I felt the same shock and anger and disgust and numbness and every fucking thing on September 11th, too.
  • Possibly now claimed by an 'al-Quaida linked group'. Unconfirmed, of course (and once again, that tricky little phrase linked to al-Quaida - it's so vague; I also dislike the way in which it's too often used to lump a complex and shifting plethora of groups into one monolithic horror, which of course lends itself far better to simplistic solutions). Also claims the Istanbul Masonic lodge attack. If the letter is confirmed, I wonder what effect its explicit linking of the attacks to Iraq will have, along with the promise of attacks on Britain, Japan and the "Winds of Black Death" for America? Side issue: reports of Barcelona fans not observing the minute's silence at the Celtic-Barca UEFA Cup match tonight; chanting, booing and (allegedly) shouting pro-Eta slogans. Everything still confusing, horrible and deeply depressing. Oh, humanity.
  • Nothing on Basques in Montaillou (I also just read it last term), but there is some in the very good read, Natalie Davis's The Return of Martin Guerre (Martin Guerre's Family were Basque). For Languedoc, political upheavel in the 12th and 13th centuries and the Inquisition, I would reccomend James Given's Inquisition and Medieval Society. My condolences, also, to all the people of Spain.
  • eta has announced a permanent ceasefire.
  • *applauds, whistles, then knocks on wood* Hope this holds; wish it hadn't taken so long and so many lives.