April 21, 2007

Curious George: How do you get rid of 20 years of dog/cat urine?

The new apartment that I moved into with my girlfriend is great: the location is right off Commercial Drive, in Vancouver, BC; we have a view of the Lions, Grouse, Cypress, Lions Gate Bridge, downtown etc.; and there is no end to the restaurants, bars and shops; all while being equally convenient for both of our commutes. There is one major problem, though. The reek of animal urine coming in from our deck. When we finally discovered where the smell was coming from and that it was, in fact, our deck we began closing our windows. The plan was that after I finished my exams and papers I would have some time to scrub the stinker down. Welp, the lady who lived in here for the the 20 odd years beforehand (according to the landlord) apparently used the turf that was once on the deck (since removed before our move-in) as a lawn for poochy and kitty to defile. Now we are stuck with the stink. The landlord said when we moved in: "that's all you're getting for the deck", Referring to the fact that the super would do no more work out there and no-one would be hired to clean it. Along with all of their other neglects in preparing the apartment for move in, and their neglect in letting us know when these things will be done I'm beginning to think I live under a slumlord. Our toilet was broken in multiple ways on the move in. It sort of works now. Our range works since last night. There is a missing light fixture with wires protruding from the dining area. They told us they were spending almost six grand fixing the place up. But that could be another equally long post. I wonder what the management company thinks about that? Regardless, I need to get the deck situation fixed immediately. As a non-pet owner I am very aware of pet smells, but this is beyond simply a "pet smell". This is a consistent reek of urine. I've tried using bleach, Mr. Clean, and cream cleaners, but I really have no idea what I'm doing, being a no-pet-haver. The smell doesn't seem to be diminishing and the turf that was once laid there is sort of cemented to the deck in places by time and urine (I'm guessing because of the patches). I haven't spent a lot of time on this right now, probably only five hours or so. But I'm concerned that I won't be able to get rid of 20 years of neglect and will be stuck with the lair-stink. Can someone let me know if there is a way to get rid of this? Also, should I be looking for recompensation from the management company before starting this? This seems above and beyond the call of what someone should expect to do on a move-in. Further, I'm still waiting on my papers from the landlord, so I'm feeling somewhat out of place in making any sort of demands right now without the security of a paper trail. Should I pursue some sort of legal action to get this done or am I over-reacting? The landlords have been notoriously unavailable so far and we've only moved in since the first. The thing that's making it even more difficult is that there is furniture on the deck that we don't feel safe moving into the apartment for cleaning, because the smell is that bad. The bleach seems to be a temporary improvement, although, rather than have an apartment that reeks of piss, we have one that reeks of bleach when it's freshly poured on the deck. One other logistics problem: we live on the top floor of a third floor apartment with decks directly below ours. I don't know how to get rid of the junk we wash up without just waiting for it to dry and sweeping it up. Further, the deck is painted wood. Could painting over it remove the smell after a quick cleaning? Apologies for the long post, but I wanted to anticipate questions regarding the landlord and our desire to get this done immediately. And if you're wondering why we moved in to a place that was in disrepair, it was because we were assured that these problems would be remedied.

posted by InsolentChimp 17 years ago
  • Is it concrete? Wood? Either way, there are two approcahes: clean it off and/or seal it in. Try renting or borrowing a power sprayer and blast it with high pressure water. That'll get into cracks and crevices and clean everything right out. If it's concrete you can further clean with muriatic acid, but be careful with it. After cleaning, seal it in with either stain/paint or a water sealer (like Thompson's) Hope this helps.
  • Thanks, r88. It's a painted wood deck circa 1970 style wood building. The deck is probably some sort of marine grade plywood. It's more or less a flat surface with traction particles painted onto it. Its the big lumps of the backside of the turf that are glued to the deck that I think are causing the smell. The deck is on the corner of the building and wraps around. I have the impression that if I do power wash it, the spray will contaminate my neighbors decks below me and they will be none too pleased. Also, I don't know if I'll be getting my money back for this yet. I don't have too much on my hands at the moment. I'm not sure if this is doable, but I'll ask around if any of my friends have access to a power sprayer. I suppose I could warn the neighbors downstairs before I begin. Will a pressure washer remove what can't be scrubbed off with a coarse brush? Do I have to hook it up to a faucet? (I don't have an outdoor faucet if that causes a problem) Maybe I can get a photo posted of the problem.
  • Oh, also, the smell hasn't been eliminated by using bleach and normal cleaners; are you saying that will be fixed by painting over it?
  • I did a bit of googling, and it appears that a water/white vinggar solution is advised. 50/50 was the strongest. (And combining bleach with ammonia, which cat urine has in quantity, causes deadly fumes, so be careful if you continue with that remedy.) Another site went further. Wash with a 50/50 vinegar solution, then sprinkle with baking soda. Next, wash with 3/4 cup hydrogen peroxide with a tsp. dish detergent solution (sized up for the area, I assume.) Allow that to dry and vaccuum up the powder. If the smell lasts, repeat the process. There are also product out there which are supposed to eliminate pet odors. I googled "cat urine solutions" and saw several in a quick read. On the other hand, if the wood is permeated with the urine, it might take years of repeated attempts to get the cleaning products to soak down to the depths. It might be that the best thing would be to replace the wood flooring, though it doesn't appear that your landloard would be willing to do that. Maybe you could put astroturf out there to send the smell down to your neighbor? My only other suggestion is to take up smoking, which will eventually kill off your ability to smell anything. :)
  • I had my cat pee in my shoes and couldn't find anything (including several enzyme products that "guaranteed" to remove the smell) that worked. I ended up throwing them away. You might be SOL in trying to wash it away. How many square feet is the deck? Would it be too hard or expensive to reinstall the plywood? Go to the hardware store and get a wood working type buddy to help you. It sounds like an afternoon weekend's worth of work. And remember to take your buddy out for dinner for his/her help.
  • Look, you don't own the place. You just want the smell to go away. Don't strip anything or go through a ton of trouble. Get a couple of gallons of B-I-N Primer. Put a couple of coats on and it will be ready for you to paint. Paint the hell out of it. A couple of coats. Get some stencils, add some art, change your name to Banksy, sell your porch as a "pissy piece of art", build a new porch with profits, spend your days on your new porch wearing an ascot, drinking Veuve Clicquot and throwing water balloons at the neighbors.
  • My only other suggestion is to take up smoking, which will eventually kill off your ability to smell anything. :) Ha, ha, path, I am a smoker! Although, I have a fairly keen sense of smell for everything but my own ashtray scent, surprisingly enough. Anyways, it seems that most of those remedies are for carpeting, rather than a solid, painted surface. Although I am considering the vinegar solution cleaner, fight bases with acids, right? That makes some sense, although grade 12 chemistry was many years ago. And Argh is right, I don't own the place so I'm not going to renovate it. Besides I hardly have the money to rent a pressure washer and also feel strongly that I should not be spending any money here - although I already have for the sake of urgency. I just need to do the job that my landlord should have done in getting rid of the smell. But if anyone can let me know if painting over the deck once it's clean will work please let me know. If that BIN stuff can seal in the smell of fire and pet odors, it might work for the deck, thanks Argh. Thanks everyone, if there are any more suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them.
  • Sealing it might be your best bet. I have a sneaking suspicion that this might be beyond just pet urine; long term application of animal waste might have allowed a microorganism or zillion to set up shop in the plywood and the smell you are getting is the wood plus binder (glue) being broken down. The glues used often have a large amine content and those things (meaning the amines) stink to high heaven in their pre-glue form.
  • Thinking it through a (little) more, I recommend scrounging. Advertise on Craigslist, post a flyer in the local library - you want house paint, exterior, at very low cost and preferably free. A part can that is just taking up space somewhere.
  • The deck seems pretty solid. But there is some wood exposure in places where the paint has come up with the astro-turf (I suspect). It doesn't look too bad in places, but it is hard to detect how well the paint has held up under the places where parts of the turf has still stuck to the deck and is relentlessly holding on.
  • Seriously, wash it down with a mop and scrub brush... Let it dry for a day and then coat the crap out of it with B-I-N and then paint it. the B-I-N is just a primer. use at least two coats (maybe three) Stuff works like magic.
  • Well the deck is about 150-175sq feet so it's going to need a little more than a part can. I'll be asking for the paint from my landlord, and if she refuses I'll be contacting the management company. There's no way that this can be considered appropriate care to duty and I think they'll agree. I'm only putting in the work hours because it's difficult to live with this.
  • You have no deck now. If you spend a few hundred dollars, and then have a deck, you will be the winner. If, on the other hand, you spend some money on the landlord's deck, never get paid back, and still don't eliminate the problem, your bet will be lost. The wood has absorbed the piss, and you will not get it out. Seal it in, instead. Paint with interior sealer if you don't give a shit. Otherwise, ask the paint guy at the hardware store what he suggests. Perhaps some exterior sealer. Perhaps concrete sealer. Several layers. Consider adding sand to the top layer to keep it from getting too slick in the rain. My sister bought a condo in Vancouver last year, three blocks from the water. She had upstairs neighbors who thumped about all of the time, unmuffled by the crappy 70's construction. She sold at a loss a few months later. If she had a top floor unit, instead, she would still be there. Just saying.
  • I think a lot of you aren't reading this right. Maybe I should clarify, in case I missed mentioning things. There was astro-turf above the already sealed deck while the animals were pissing. I believe most of the piss smell is coming from what seems to be astro-turf stuck to the paint job on the deck which I suspect is glued to the sealing job by urine. If the deck had been poorly sealed, I would suspect that after 20+ years in Vancouver's liquid sunshine it would be rotten. Just to clarify for all of those who seem to believe the main problem is the wood. The main problem is removing the piss-junk that's glued to the paint. And then I will as Argh recommended reseal. Or, hell, I might reseal over the stuff that really won't move. Sorry I wasn't clearer.
  • Make sure to document and take photos of all the problems throughout the apartment before you start repairing things - you might need evidence later. (In case you haven't done that already)
  • How much astroturf is left? There must be some way to unglue it so you could make sure that that's the problem.
  • My condolences. Cat piss is my least favorite smell ever.
  • This suggestion may raise some eyebrows, but mix several cans of Diet Sun-drop with a cup or so of sea salt. Drink the mixture and wait an hour or two. Your ownn urine should be able to remove the smell now. If that does not work, then lightly rub the surface with a rag that has been dipped in owl semen.
  • Long handled floor scraper. Rip off the turf and as much glue as you can, then seal. Find that scraper and get to work.
  • Ditto the scraper, and taking photos before you do any work. Get the gunk off, and then you probably want to rent a sander and get the paint off the deck. After 20 years, chances are good that the urine has soaked in to the paint, and sealing it in won't help. Strip up the paint, sand down the wood a bit, then wet down the deck when the sun is on it. Does it still stink? If yes, go after it with the vinegar solution. Repeat until stink is barely noticeable, then seal it. It's a lot of work, but I don't think you'll get the stink out otherwise. Good luck!
  • Koko beat me to it, and that's the ONLY way you've got have a chance to get something you can live with. I know whereof I speak.** Scrape up the turf, sand it down with a sander, and let it air for AT LEAST two weeks before you seal it with several coats of the stuff recommended. Also, you need to document EVERYTHING including this smell. Take plenty of pictures, get statements from friends as to the odor and the condition of the deck as well as everything else wrong with the place. Make a statement out and get it notorized. Perhaps you can get several impartial people in to make a statement as to the nasty smell. This could be a real nightmare in the future, whether it be the landlords trying to screw you over on rent and damage/cleaning deposit or if you need to get out of this lease because the place is absolutely unlivable. It's not summer yet. Think of the stench in the heat, and you can't open doors/windows to air the place out. **My credentials: We bought a repo house for $25,000 in 1975, back when we were so poor we couldn't pay attention. The people prior had built kennels for 7 German Shepards in the basement on the bare concrete, and there was dog crap everywhere. The had let their dogs pee in every room in the house. The doors were chewed, the baseboards torn off, and the carpet was totally disgusting. We couldn't live there until the following things had been done: The kennels were torn out, and we had to shovel out the basement, scrub the walls and floor twice, then pour straight bleach on to get out the smell. We then scrubbed the floor twice again with a big rotary scrubber, and sealed the concrete. We needed masks to tear out the carpet. Scrub twice, let air with all the windows open. There were two places that needed the subflooring replaced, and then we sanded and sealed the rest of the subfloor. The walls were scrubbed, then the gap between the floor and the walls was bleached and sealed with RTV. The worst place was where the male dogs had peed against the wall in the dining room on the North side under the 48x48" window. We replaced the wallboard under the window. The whole place was painted, had new kitchen flooring, and new carpet. Everything was fine, except when the wind blew hard from the North, we could occasionally get a whiff of a nasty 'tang' on occasion in the dining room for years after. No one else ever noticed, and eventually it seemed gone. About five years ago, we decide to remodel--the ongoing project from hell that still isn't done. First thing was to build a deck off the dining room, then tear out the window and put in french doors. Got down to the studs, and started pulling out the base plate--WHEW! Some nasty stank under that old wood. Putting in those doors and getting rid of that old wood was the best thing we ever did. And I love my deck and pergola. I always thought we'd renovate and sell the place, but here we are still. I learned several things from this experience. First, some people live like pigs. Second, you better really, really like your location before you put in $100,000 worth of sweat equity and improvements to a $25,000 house. Third, I am the MASTER of getting rid of pet stank. If worse comes to worst and you feel like the above treatment still hasn't QUITE taken care of it, you could seal around all the edges, especially where the door meets the deck, and then tell the landlord you want astroturf put back down. That should take care of any lingering wiffies. Just be careful, as mentioned. This landlord sounds like he could turn out to be your worst nightmare.
  • I would move... as nice as this place is (in all other respects), I agree that you probably won't solve this problem. You won't be able to use a power washer there, a kitchen faucet won't feed it enough water. Or....How about tearing up the wood and replacing it? My guess is that's the only solution and probably not practical.. Consider moving, use calling the health department as the lever to get out of your lease.... and...landlords suck (most of them, anyway)
  • I've had some problems with my house, too, and here's what I've learned: -- Your rent pays for the upkeep of the property. You shouldn't have to pay above and beyond that. To get the landlord to do her job: 1. Document *everything* with pictures and statements. 2. Document every time you contact the landlord, what you talked about, and what was promised. If possible, ask for things in writing, and keep a copy of your letter. When you talk to your management company (and maybe later the health dept), give them copies (not the originals) of your evidence. 3. When all else fails, go to your version of the health department. I'm betting that old animal waste counts as a health violation, and if that doesn't, the exposed wires and broken toilet *definitely* count. Bad landlords are bad landlords, and they often need the legal "nudge" that the health dept offers. At the very best, they force the landlord to fix things and you get to keep your cool apartment. At the worst, they help you break your lease and maybe get you some back rent. 4. Go beyond your landlord sooner rather than later. First threaten to do so, to see if that works (and give the landlord a specific date to have things fixed), then follow up on your threat. Just because you don't have a lot of money doesn't mean that you don't deserve a decent place to live! Here are some links that might help: -- TRAC Tenant Resource and Advisory Centre -- What Protection Do You Have as a Tenant?
  • Easy-peasy: Fire Cleanses All.
  • I can't get the image of you scrubbing it with bleach and Mr. Clean and having those nice, caustic chemicals dripping down onto the decks below you. Please tell me my imagination is running wild. Also, if you're going to scrape the old bits of glue and astroturf off, wait until after a nice rain if you can. The glue will be softened and easier to scrap off. I doubt you're going to get this landlord to pay for anything. If you're set on that, you have a long, unpleasant fight on your hands, one which will probably result in your eventually moving. I've had luck in the past with landlords by telling them "I'm going to do such-and-such to the place. I'll subtract the cost for materials from this month's rent, and you'll get the labor for free. Sounds like a deal?" It's a win-win, if you're not afraid of the work. Landlord gets you off his back, gets the work done for free labor, and you get your project done with no material cost.
  • If you do decide to do it yourself, what about sanding and nautical varnish? That out to seal in any smells. Though reading fimbulvetr's suggestion, I half thought if it was me I might go at it with a blow torch to see if i could cook tit out and get that nice charred finish too.
  • err *cook it*. Ahem. One track mind.
  • I've had some luck with white vinegar, but it sounds like your problem goes way beyond.