In other cremation news, Crematoria struggle with obese:
In some cases grieving relatives have to travel hundreds of miles to find crematoria that can accommodate over-sized coffins.
Standard coffins range from 16-20 inches, but coffins up to 40 inches are becoming increasingly common.
Or you could just slap bodies in bamboo cages situated near a large Banyan tree as the Bali Aga of Trunyan do.
Good luck trying to bury your loved one directly in the ground in a biodegradable container. At least in the U.S. Most states have legislated that bodies have to be entombed in concrete vaults, and have also dictated that only licensed funeral services can take care of body prep and burial.
The funeral industry HATES cremation because they can't sell you all the bells and whistles, so good luck with talking them out of embalming and everything else when you say you want the unembalmed body buried in a cardboard box in the bare ground.
I heard a report the other day about China's and India's current ramp-up to full industrial production. Most of that new industry will have no environmental regulations to deal with and will be powered by coal-fired generating plants.
Now this guy comes along and says my future cremation is worth worrying about? Is he serious?
Maybe the cremation fire can he harnessed to power the conveyor belt under my casket. At least I'll be carbon-neutral.
I think we should exploit the "wick effect" demonstrated by John de Haan.
Bodies are occasionally found burned to nothing (perhaps with intact feet or hands) with little or no damage to anything around them. This has often been attributed to the dubious phenomenon of spontaneous combustion, but de Haan showed that a clothed body can burn slowly like a candle in the right conditions. Little or no additional fuel is needed and the bones are completely destroyed, whereas in normal cremation, you need a lot of fuel to get really high temperatures, and the large bones still have to be smashed up by hand.
You can still use the ashes as fertiliser, and there isn't the risk of disease or contamination arising from burial.
The green burial movement is gaining ground (*cough*) here in Ontario, although I'm not sure there's one in operation just yet (but Guelph is close, the last I heard). I believe there are already a few in operation on the Left Coast.
Interestingly, it's also being sold as a means of land conservation -- a private sector initiative stepping in to preserve green spaces where the government has failed so miserably.
Also, Toronto's substantial Hindu community is looking for a designated river where they can disperse the ashes of their dead. Right now, it's not entirely legal, and people are running some risk (legal, bodily) in order to cast away the ashes, usually without the presence of the necessary priest.
They're in discussions with local conservation authorities to have designated places on the Don or Humber where they can do this. The hope is that with the designation, they not only can conduct the ceremonies properly, but also place controls to keep the funerals green -- there seems to be a problem with non-biodegradable items being scattered at the same time, choking up the rivers. But I digress.
Previous green burial thread in which the link is dead, but a Google search of "Capsula Mundia" took me to this article on the options for green burials.
The search also brought up the company's new site (it's .it now, not .com), but there's literally almost no content there, just a flash pop-up.
Short, a reproductive biologist at the University of Melbourne, said the contribution of cremation to harmful greenhouse gases was small, and he did not wish to prevent people from choosing how their body was disposed of according to their religion.
But to bury the hatchet with environmentalists, he suggested it would not be a bad idea to bequeath one's body as food for a forest.
"You can actually do, after your death, an enormous amount of good for the planet," he said. "The more forests you plant, the better."
So, what he proposes isn't legal. I mean, that's all there is to it. If the laws change, sure, why not? But right now, cremation is the best option.
On the reservation, it seemed like every family home had a couple of well-tended graves out back. And I'm sure they weren't going the embalming and dura-casket route, either.
And by the way, the Biopresence graphic about 2/3 of the way down that article depicts a woman actually hugging a tree, which has me giggling uncontrollably.
Another green way to go is to donate your body to a "body farm" where forensic anthropologists study how bodies decompose in the hopes of solving crimes and other suspicious deaths. Here's some info on the process. It's the way I'm hoping to go.
Actually, "being buried in a cardboard box under a tree" isn't too far away from the traditional Jewish burial method. Before burial, the body is washed with water, and wrapped in a simple white cloth. Nothing else is done to it--no pumping the veins full of chemicals, no preservatives, nada. Then you put the body into a plain pine coffin, bury it, and let it return to the earth.
Nickdanger, why do you feel cremation the best option? Probably because of my own cultural biases, the traditional Jewish option has always made the most sense to me, and I'm interested in understanding why other options appeal to other people.
Nickdanger, why do you feel cremation the best option?
Mainly because it circumvents the predatory funeral industry so nicely. If it were more practical to bury someone "in the forest", as the good scientist in the article suggests, that would be alright too, but there are significant legal impendiments that keep you from being able to bury a loved one in the backyard, at least where I come from. The method you describe sounds nice too. Really, my preference does keep coming back to getting away from the industry.
Your Mortem May Vary.
Cap'n, one of them "natural cemetaries" opened up one town over from me last year. I've always fancied cremation, but I've started thinking this may be the way to go.
Of course, that raises the money issue. I've been planning on becoming a research cadaver as a second career, and the medical school throws in a free cremation. Most of me thinks I'd rather my life insurance went to make my family's life a little easier then to dispose of my carcass.
This article has an interesting section about Josephine burial regulations.
Burying the dead beneath a tree will only result in more movies like The Fountain. Now, if that movie was your cup of tea, then you should be very happy.
You should make jokes about movies that people actually saw, bernockle. Now explain yourself.
to jacobw's point about Jewish burials -- even Jewish cemeteries use cement vaults.
This site also asserts that many Jews use "Jewish funeral homes" which pitch the same services as other funeral homes rather than the traditional plain pine box.
This is fascinating. On a recent visit to tiny Tangier Island, a place slowly disappearing as sea levels rise, land is already at such a premium that folks regularly bury relatives in their yards. I personally saw many homes whose entire properties were taken up with graves.
Once sea levels creep up a mere few inches, this entire island, and everyone buried on it, will be under the waters of the Chesapeake Bay. As I understand it, some already are.
This was a very, very vivid microcosmic view of what lies ahead with traditional burials. Time to come up with alternatives, I believe. Too bad there's a shortage of Banyan trees here; SMT's suggestion has some merits.
For myself, I kinda like the idea of becoming plant food, perhaps for a beautiful sycamore or majestic oak. Or a Banyan, for that matter.
If I can't be mulched in safely with no muss and fuss, they can haul my carcass to Holy Tibet for a date with the vultures.
You should make jokes about movies that people actually saw, bernockle. Now explain yourself.
I saw the movie. I got the joke. I have amused the entirety of my intended audience. You didn't think that my jokes on here are intended for other people, did you?
Strip me for parts, cremate what's left, and have some glass blower make the ashes into a nice beer stein.
Gross, I'm not drinking out of the Fes mug.
*hands it to pete*
I always say, ya gotta hand it to pete.
Ever notice how a rimshot kinda sounds like ashes?
I would like to know how my earthly remains could be prepared in such a way as to produce a fossil in 250 millennia. Just trying to be helpful.
I would like to know how my earthly remains could be prepared in such a way as to produce a fossil in 250 millennia. Just trying to be helpful
Whoa. Anybody know any venture capitalists?
Y'know all those stories about actors who want their skulls flensed and used in productions of Hamlet?
Maybe they could use my metatarsals as dice in the touring company of Guys and Dolls.
Briank, I'm not surprised about the predatory practices of some (maybe even many) Jewish funeral homes. That seems to be par for the course for the funeral industry as a whole, alas.
One of the things I'm proud of is that my dad played a big role in setting up a funeral committee at my synagogue, designed to monitor funeral practices and prevent people from being exploited at their time of grief.
I AM surprised, though, about the concrete vaults. I had no idea, and I find that very disillusioning.
It's interesting that you mention that some states require them--but presumably not all states. This suggests that there's no real health necessity for concrete vaults, as long as you exercise certain commonsense precautions. If that's the case, there's a good freedom-of-religion lawsuit waiting to happen.
Nickdanger, thanks for your explanation. Sharing as I do your distaste for the excesses of the funeral industry, I understand where you're coming from.
From Tree Hugger to Root Hugger,,hey,,nobody's going to bring up the ultimate ecologogical reycling of our human wastes,, Solyent Green?
The National Concrete Burial Vault Assosication. I shit you not.
Now I'm gonna have THIS song going through my head all night.
I couldn't find a comprehensive listing of requirements by state. But, curious about my own prospects, I found this at the website of the NYS Funeral Directors' Association.:
"As of January 1, 1985, an incorporated cemetery may require the use of a concrete burial vault on all lots purchased after that date. Written information on this requirement must be provided to potential lot owners prior to purchase. In the event that this requirement conflicts with one's religious beliefs, it will be waived."
It's my guess that a lot of people never think to ask, "Do I legally have to have this?"
So I did a little digging (you'll pardon the pun) and came up with this bit of verbiage from a funeral services website:
The use of an Outer Burial Container or Burial Vault is not required by any state or federal law but each individual cemetery can require the use of this merchandise as a term of burial in that particular cemetery. Today, nearly all cemeteries require the use of at least an Outer Burial container as a requirement for interment. (cite)
So, I guess the vaults are not required by law, but it's moot if virtually every cemetery requires one as part of their own contracts.
I wonder if it has something to do with the big, heavy equipment they use to mow & roll these days. Some modern cemetaries don't even allow 3-D headstones, as they want to be able to just mow over 'em. Maybe they don't want to risk the ol' John Deere sinking into someplace it oughtn't.
Had a friend that was screwed over by a hard-sell funeral parlor that made her embalm her mother before they'd cremate. By the time they were done twisting her around, she wasn't capable of changing her mind, even though it had been pointed out to her that she did not legally have to embalm. One more swine taking advantage of the grieving.
You may know what you want, but if you don't spell it out, you may be leaving that someone making the arrangements for you doing it in a not-so-clear state of mind and thus getting reamed.
donate your body to a "body farm"... ...research
Trouble is, we can't all do that, or it'll start to stink up the place. And often, family isn't really comfortable with the idea. Yer dead, so you don't care, but the rest of us that knew you will get emotional don't want your zombie ass after their brains.
I want to be made into a diamond, but I'll probably have to settle for charcoal.
The mentions of the Banyan tree remind me of Brian Aldiss' Hothouse where nothing's going to be left of you anyway, once the carnivorous plants have had their way. So, your tribe takes your carved wooden soul from your hut, and seals it in a seed pod for a Traverser to take to the moon.
*tokes*
As for me, I'd like to be shut in one of those cages and hung at the gates of the town, as a warning to others.
Soylent Diesel
May as well get Hunter Yuppie to his lunch appointment, eh?
Sorry, that was pretty cynical. Perhaps a coffee will alleviate such a mindset.
Pigs have been bred to be as lean as possible--'the other white meat.'
Methinks this is another corperate gimick to get gummint funding. So now are we going back to breeding fat pigs with meat that will give us heart problems? That's the only way you're going to really ramp up the soylent diesel production.
I've got no problem being a tasty, tasty meat eater. But breeding animals to slaughter them just to ride around is cruel, unethical, as well as stupid. Look at the COST people. All the oil products that go into farming the feed to raise these pigs make it a fuel expensive situation. Then factor in the pollution problems in raising that many pigs.
Sunshine is free. Wind is free. Wave action is free. All are non-polluting. When will we learn?
will get emotionaldon't want your zombie ass after their brains. I want to be made into a diamond, but I'll probably have to settle for charcoal.