April 16, 2007

20 Killed at Virginia Tech Campus Today just got a bit worse.

I just heard a student in the hallway talking on his cell phone to a friend at Virgina Tech and checked CNN for the developing story. I have several coworkers who tacught there for years, and fond memories of driving through the campus on my last trip south. So far they're saying it's an unknown lone gunman.

posted by The Underpants Monster 17 years ago
  • This is profoundly horrible and sad.
  • wow, an hour ago the news here said "one killed" then I see this. so terrible.
  • Wha... what Medusa said.
  • TUM, you're news link says they're looking for another gunman. . So sad.
  • It is indeed horrible and sad.
  • Oh Lord. The two-hour gap between incidents is even weirder.
  • Tragic and senseless and incomprehensible.
  • .
  • Why is it always schools? .
  • Or post offices. or malls. liquor stores, of course. trailer parks. city streets. clubs. offices. the Dakota building. .
  • When you want to do the most damage you can you don't tend to hit isolated areas with only a couple of people around.
  • Fellow apparently executed them all, says Wikipedia (citing some sources I haven't checked). This obviously wasn't a random spree. Motherfucker planned this. One of my close colleagues teaches at VT. He's not among the victims, but his office phone is out and I can't load his website to get his home number.
  • jesus
  • Up to 29 according to ABC.
  • 32, according to some reports.
  • I just have to wonder, considering evacuations from bomb threats just three days earlier, why would classes still be in session after the initial incident in the dormitory at 7:15 am? What a horrid tragedy...
  • Reuters says: "32 dead in Virginia Tech shooting: Fox News quoting federal sources" So the question is -- how much do you trust Fox News?
  • I just went to CNN to check on the progress, and they have a gory dead-body picture right on the front page. I really hate it when they do that.
  • via the Wiki article which is strange and interesting in itself: Fatalities 32 reported by Fox[1][2], 29 by CNN and ABC [3] [4]
  • I'm a mentor on a high school robotics team in Virginia and I'm in a near state of shock with this, as many of our former students go to Virginia Tech. We're playing the waiting game here, waiting to find out if all of our alumni are okay. It's not a happy day.
  • Well, there's always mass confusion around horrible tragedies like this. Not to mention critically wounded individuals in the hospital. There's sure to be conflicting reports.
  • Sorry if my previous comment sounded insensitive - I meant it in a "that's not necessary or right" way, not the whiny way it came out. It's so odd to me that we continue to work & go about our business while things like this go on. My office in particular is very bad about that. On 9/11 my boss just kept on working and expected us to do the same. IndignantBlink, I hope you get some news soon.
  • Is it just me or is MeFi having a case of the JRuns?
  • MeFi's running slow. Oddly enough minda25 - even the office I was working at in Tokyo the next day was not "operation normal" after 9/11 - or in fact any event that had a broad impact. Is your boss missing an empathy gland?
  • Well, that's one possibility. Another is that in the absence of knowing what to do, doing the regular may only be appropriate. Not being able to do anything about the situation may resign you to just doing what you always do.
  • Well, my office has CNN on all the screens (usually they're locked on CNBC) - and fell silent while Congress was holding their moment of silence... Speaking of 9/11 and "work as normal" - - the office I worked at on that day was blocks from the WTC. I could hardly breathe, let alone think straight. One of my co-workers went on working as normal, drafting engineering drawings while everyone else evacuated. She didn't even flinch. I attributed it to her way of dealing with something she couldn't comprehend.
  • On the other hand, is there something to be said for dealing with situations like this by keeping your focus on the day-to-day...?
  • Yikes, telepathy with SMT!
  • It's the issue of the young and defenceless that makes it so poignant for me. I hope all monkey kin are okay. *grieves*
  • Why is it always schools? Or post offices. or malls. liquor stores, of course. trailer parks. city streets. clubs. offices. the Dakota building. Or America?
  • I think that's a good explanation for it, and a good way of looking at it. Some people need to keep going in order to... keep going. *is having trouble articulating anything as baby did not sleep well, meaning mama did not sleep well*
  • Bloody hell. There's going to be a major shitstorm over that 2 hour gap in which a shooting perpetrator was at large on campus and no apparent lockdown was in effect.
  • Damn. I woke up to this on the radio but I was dozing, so I assumed it was a dream. I don't know about executions, since a lot of students were wounded according to that LJ Community and that sounds more like random gunfire to me. The university's website says 22 dead, so Fox is (surely not!) overreporting. No mention on the uni website about that 2-hour gap save to say that police were investigating the first shooting when the second occurred. So tragic.
  • AP says 31, including the gunman.
  • ...but who'd believe the gunman?
  • I don't think Fox is overreporting at this point. Seems that most other news orgaizations are now starting to report that either 31 or 32 individuals were killed.
  • It was a man? Sorry.
  • Beeb says 31, including the gunman. So that makes it official.
  • Hurry up and decide- Could this tragedy have been averted if only: a) tighter gun control laws/enforcement had prevented the attacker from acquiring his semi-automatic boomstick? or b) looser gun control laws had allowed innumerable professors and students to carry concealed handguns with which they could have brought down the attacker early into his spree? Hurry! This is all anyone will talk about for the next month!
  • The ceeb reports there was a lockdown of the dorms at eight, and also that winds were too strong to allow helicopter-evacuations (?).
  • One of the LJ posts from a VT student mentioned winds knocking out power.
  • It was a man? I assumed the same after reading the LiveJournal page Capt. linked upthread: Basically, this morning some kid went into a dorm, shot his girlfriend and a RA, and then went to an engineering building an opened fire.
  • One of the students mentioned getting a warning via email from admin. But then if the power went out... According to [a link I read but I don't remember which one], the first person shot was his girlfriend.
  • Yeah, that one that smt just quoted.
  • Nickdanger, let's hope that asinine debate stays confined to MeTa.
  • On 9/11 my boss just kept on working and expected us to do the same. That's fucked up. I understand dealing with tragedy by focusing on the day-to-day, but that's just fucked up. You've got to at least acknowledge tragedy, especially something that big.
  • Or America? Troll.
  • Yeah, we're having a nor'easter today. My coworker said his haighbor's 65-foot tree blew down, across his driveway.
  • It was a man? Apologies, that was meant sarcastically because horrifying gun violence is almost always a man. Do we have a gun-control thread to link to?
  • Just heard a report saying that the gunman had a bullet-proof vest on. Planned and executed it would seem.
  • Hurry! This is all anyone will talk about for the next month! Which is true and also unfortunate. This is a tragedy but it's also a freak occurrence. 70,000 people die from preventable diabetes in the U.S. a year but that won't get half the news coverage.
  • Troll. How's the temperature of that sand you have your head stuck in?
  • That's it, blame America. Now you can feel superior. Dance in the blood. It makes you soo much cooler than the rest of us.
  • Yeah, yeah. Whatever.
  • So if Columbine was almost exactly 8 years ago, I wonder if there's a group of newbie adults watching this news story and wondering how a world could go so wrong as to produce someone like this gunman. 'cause a 25 year old today would have been . . um . . younger . ., back then and may not have viewed such a thing in a socially critical light. Whereas those who were already adults during Columbine have already wondered some of these same questions.
  • It is too early to talk about whether this could have been averted, we don't even know who the shooter was. As a Montrealer who was in university during the Polytechnique and the Concordia shootings, I find the rush to politicize these crimes really troubling. Of course there are legitimate political concerns (and I'm a gun control advocate myself), but we should at least wait until we know what happened.
  • What makes Skrik cooler than the rest of us is that he lives on the north pole. Otherwise, his is a simple observation that grotesque school shootings seem to be a characteristic American tradition, at least among Western democracies. I don't however see what any of us, individually or collectively, could have done to prevent this. Even had we elected Kerry in 2004, signed onto the Kyoto protocol, got out of the Middle East, intervened in Darfur, and started taking steps to reduce nuclear proliferation, we would still have roughly the same chance that a lunatic would walk into a crowded room and open fire. Schools and colleges are just convenient targets. Yeah, we could ban guns, but dedicated criminals (such as our present specimen) would obtain them anyhow. If not guns, explosives will do in a pinch. The only way to stop them is to outsmart them, and in this case Rice's famus dictum holds true: the criminals only have to succeed once, but we have to succeed every time. How can we stop such crimes? If the answer is fiddle with fundamental rights Americans have enjoyed for two centuries, or to create paranoid and intrusive governmental institutions like in Britain, then the American answer should be, "No thanks, I'll try my chances with the lunatics." Liberty, security, trading, losing both thereof, etc.
  • *nods agreement with fuyugare* The college President is starting to look tired from his multi-hour interview as attempts to cast blame start to fly about. (on CNN) Which is a shame as he is a victim as well. He must be horrified.
  • The shooters pick schools because that's where they're less likely to encounter anyone armed. If you're a student and get caught with a gun... well, you can consider your college career over... forever. We've created an environment where a shooter can find a bevy of targets that won't shoot back. These shooters are cowards. They look for the place where they're least likely to encounter resistance. Schools.
  • The Wiki page has had a speedy deletion pending a name change. That will help matters.
  • "Yeah, yeah. Whatever." I dunno, but from here, it looks like HawthorneWingo just handed you your ass. Perhaps a gracious admission of defeat would come in handier than so-above-it-all dismissal.
  • ...shootings seem to be a characteristic American tradition Number of deaths in U.S. in school shootings from 1997-2007 and including today's tragedy: 92 Number of students who are attending school at any one time in U.S.: 75,000,000. Number of children under the age of 5 who drowned in swimming pools during the same period: ~6000 Our monkey brains...not so good at understanding where the real problems are.
  • That is a ridiculous response, SB. I can't believe you missed my point unintentionally.
  • The shooters pick schools because that's where they're less likely to encounter anyone armed. If you're a student and get caught with a gun... well, you can consider your college career over... forever. We've created an environment where a shooter can find a bevy of targets that won't shoot back. These shooters are cowards. They look for the place where they're least likely to encounter resistance. Schools. Aaaaaaannnnddddd....... Argh's chosen his side. Who'll take the opposition?
  • That is a ridiculous response, SB. I can't believe you missed my point unintentionally. Sorry to have appeared to have targeted my comment at you. It's not. It's targeted at this whole thread. This is a horrific story. But how many hours of coverage is this getting on CNN, and Fox and the network news? What does this really accomplish if we really wanted to save lives? Squat. Absolutely nothing. How many hours of discussion and "debate" is going to happen here and elsewhere? What's accomplished? Squat again. If people really care about saving lives, then shouldn't this time be better spent doing things that would actually make a difference? The big problems have nothing to do with school shootings.
  • On 9/11 my boss just kept on working and expected us to do the same. I was in the military when it happened, and even we shut down for the day. (Actually, it was more like the nest week)
  • Crap.
  • Crap. Indeed. Perhaps more respect for the randomness of death and less dwelling on ego is called for here.
  • Some of us seem to assume that this was was similar to a suicide bombing where the shooter didn't know and didn't care about whom they were killing. That may not be the case. Can we wait for the police, etc., take on how and why this happened before we start speculating on the grand socioligical influences? There could be so much else going on there, and we'll look really stoopid if we have to take back our expert judgements. Chill, indeed!
  • What does this really accomplish if we really wanted to save lives? Right now we just want to deal with a tragedy that, for whatever reasons, affects us. We can tackle swimming pools or news coverage or whatever your personal axe-grinding issues are some other time.
  • Thanks, chimaera, but really I shouldn't haven't taken the troll's bait in the first place.
  • I never thought something like this could happen at my alma mater. You get hit with Columbine, but I'm not sure it has the same effect until it happens in a place you know and have lived for 7 years. I'm shocked and can't understand any of this. My heart is breaking.
  • They look for the place where they're least likely to encounter resistance. Schools. Add to that the fact that, for some people who've cracked, school and the people in it can be, or seem like, the major source of the stress that leads to the cracking. I knew kids who were having a rough time in school, who said things like, "I'd love to come in here one day and shoot X, Y, and Z." Luckily, most of us never act on thoughts like that.
  • Right now we just want to deal with a tragedy that, for whatever reasons, affects us. I also feel i need to "deal" with it. I am strongly compelled to turn on the tv to learn the latest details. But why is that? One thing is that it is a vivid and shocking event. Second it was perpetrated by someone acting malevolently (rather than through natural forces). Third, it was unexpected. Fourth, it is an act of profound injustice. All of these things trigger the primate fear response. It's deeply unsettling. But, my point is that we're being fooled by our primate brains. The fear response is being triggered on a possibility of this happening (to me) in the future and not its *probability*. And i figure the more we understand this neural false alarm phenomena, the better we can truly "deal" with it. We really need to stop using primitive response mechanisms in a 21st century world.
  • Sorry, f8x. StoryBored, I think this goes beyond the "primate fear response" to a distinctly human ability to experience compassion abstractly, if that makes sense. Accompanying that ability, the need to grieve even for tragedies that are remote/abstract to us as individuals; I think that's part of the inclincation to turn on the TV -- you want to take part in the shared grieving ritual. That said, your point about not missing the forest for the trees is well taken.
  • StoryBored -- I happen to essentially agree with probably all of the points that you have made. I really do. But the truth is this: the sudden, unexpected death of someone is of greater concern to people than the slow, expected death. The sudden, unexpected death -- when we think it might happen to us -- is terrifying. The slow, expected death is not so frightening. For example, I know that I am not going to die tomorrow of cancer or diabetes or HIV. But I don't know that I won't be killed by someone on a shooting spree. So while I am far more likely to die of cancer than killed in a shooting spree, I am far less likely to die of cancer tomorrow. And that is what people worry about. They worry about dying tomorrow. And then there is the whole idea: "If this happened in Nigeria tomorrow, people in the US would barely care." This is probably true, but it is probably a univeral feeling. Me, my family, my friends, my street, my neighborhood, my city, my state, my country, my continent, my planet. That would be the general order of almost anyone's concern. I like to think that I value all human life equally, but it is not like I wouldn't be more upset if my family was killed in a shooting spree than if people at Virginia Tech were. Likewise, it makes sense for people who live in the US to be more concerned about a shooting spree at Virginia Tech than they would be in Nigeria.
  • f8x, I'm so sorry. I've been in a similar position; taught at a school where, a couple years after I moved, there was a school shooting with two fatalities. This is horrible.
  • f8x, I hope you and everyone you love are all right.
  • You're right, there's more than just the fear response. There's a sadness response also. On the other hand, there is also the "stare at the automobile accident while you drive by" response which is also primate-innate(?) or is it learned behaviour?
  • Sorry my comment was meant in reply to HW. Bernockle, I agree with your outline of the concentricity of our caring. And now after reading f8x's comment, the tragedy becomes instantly more closer.
  • To be fair to Skrik, I thought his 'yeah yeah whatever' was directed to the comment where he was said to have a sense of superiority about not being in America -- which I didn't read in his answer at all. And I understood his original comment to relate more to attitudes towards guns in the States than anything else. But, I could be wrong -- there's not much in the original comment itself to go on, but that was the sense I had. *invokes spirit of SideDish to descend with photos of kittens*
  • Living in an ultra-monitored, ultra-conservative society, a tragedy like this is so beyond my emotional comprehension that I don't know how to react, other than in shock and horror. And grief for the victims, their families and those who survived but witnessed the events. A hug and many kittens to you all.
  • .......... .......... .......... .. & .
  • I'm okay and people I know and love are okay, but we're all pretty damaged by this. I live in LA now, but Blacksburg, though 3,000 miles away, is still so close to me in my heart and memory. This just feels like a rape of everything good and decent about the place. And the media coverage is just about as nauseating as I can imagine. Thanks everyone for your condolences.
  • beyond my emotional comprehension Mine too.
  • Sorry to hear it's so close f8x. Best thoughts. Gun violence doesn't get much airplay in this country. Y'know after thinking about this a second, I think gun violence does get a lot of airplay in this country. Specifically how to stop it, however, does not. Also the popular media is an echo chamber of itself. So today we'll hear bits of everyone listening to themselves ask why. Because we don't, usually. What does this really accomplish if we really wanted to save lives? SB's point about the numbers is a good point, but intent is not typically a part of swimming pool deaths. Saving lives by itself may not be the focus of the debate, as much as understanding how to prevent such actions.
  • Some early details on the victims. And we have our hero of the crisis.
  • He was a loner Somehow I expect the exact same conversations as after Columbine.
  • Background on Librescu. So, at least two different students can testify to this. Never heard of this news site, make your own judgements.
  • That's even more heartbreak to the heartbreak...
  • The professor and his wife, Marlena, both Holocaust survivors, made aliyah--immigrated to Israel--from Romania in 1978. (Ironically, he was killed on the day that Israel and the world remember those who died in and those who survived the Holocaust). Wow. Very sad.
  • Time for the inevitable anti-Asian backlash. I guess I should be glad to be outside the US right now.
  • Perhaps we can differentate between our neighbors and a killer. It's tough when a group of people are being demonized by the press and our government, but I hope we are better people then they would have us be.
  • I can't help but flashback to Bowling for Columbine. I keep wondering *how* easy was it for a 23 year-old individual who is in the United States on a resident-alien visa to obtain 9mm and .22 caliber pistols?
  • And how *hard* it is for students to carry weapons to protect themselves.
  • Presumably just as easy as for the resident alien in the previous question.
  • And how *hard* it is for students to carry weapons to protect themselves. A solution which would result in very few 32-victim incidents, and hundreds of single-victim incidents. Not a trade I'd be willing to make.
  • Does anyone find him or herself thinking (as I often do) that it's not a matter of if, but when some kind of shooting like this happens to someone we love, or at our workplace? I recently fired someone who constantly told his coworkers that he was going to come in one day and kill everyone. It's hard not to take those things seriously these days. On September 11th, not only were we made to keep on working, but a VP came around to tell us that if we went home "then the terrorists would win".
  • You know, I kinda suspect that comments by neighbours and whatnot such as "he was a loner", "kept to himself", "was very quiet" really mean "I don't know a thing about him (or any of my other neighbours), but I'm going to open my yap and have an opinion anyways." As for getting a gun, if you go to a gun show in the states, you can legally buy and sell guns without any documentation or waiting periods whatsoever, as a lot of the guys selling them are selling in small enough quantity that it is considered as a private sale. My dad and I used to go to the gun shows in Buffalo all the time when I was younger for entertainment. Man oh man, you wouldn't believe the nutters at those things and the scary sh*t you could buy. I especially remember being the scary wacko guy stocking up on ammo and guns after Bob Ray and the NDP were elected in Ontario, as he wanted to be ready when the "commies" who had taken power in Canada were going to stream over the border. Yep. Anyways, that is all besides the point. This is an awful, horrible situation, and quite frankly I don't think that such things can really be prevented without an extreme police state, which is not worth the modicum of benefits it would afford. If a population is big enough, there will be a large enough percentage of crazies in the population to cause chaos. It would be more fair to compare these situations to a domestic terrorist act. None of the above are meant in any way to lessen or excuse the horribleness of what happened. It really is heartbreaking to hear about it. .
  • Obviously your VP couldn't see 5 1/2 years into the future when we would be conclusively winning the war on terror.
  • Ummm. Should read "the scary wacko guy" not "being the scary wacko guy". At least I don't think I was a scary wacko guy. And Argh, I fell a hell of a lot better and safer living in a country where people are not allowed to carry guns for protection. Last thing I want are stupid road-rage hotheads and whatnot to be armed.
  • Lots of people with guns in Iraq. Now THERE'S a "polite society".
  • Time for the inevitable anti-Asian backlash. I guess I should be glad to be outside the US right now. Also inevitable -- the anti-loner backlash. Nothing wrong with being a loner, being very quiet, or someone who keeps to himself. These homicidal maniacs are ruining it for the rest of us...
  • Does anyone find him or herself thinking (as I often do) that it's not a matter of if, but when some kind of shooting like this happens to someone we love, or at our workplace? Absolutely. My dad worked at a huge multi-national computer company where he managed a guy who used to talk lovingly and at length about all of his guns...and then make veiled threats regarding using those guns on his coworkers. I can still remember my mom, obviously shaken, telling my dad "He's going to come in and shoot you all one of these days!" The guy was sent to counseling, but it didn't seem to help. As far as I know, he still works there. Fortunately, my dad does not.
  • Does anyone find him or herself thinking (as I often do) that it's not a matter of if, but when some kind of shooting like this happens to someone we love, or at our workplace? Back in the mid-70s, my dad fired a guy from the gas station where he worked. The guy came to our apartment and ordered my mom to let him in so that he could kill her and me (I was a baby at the time). Luckily, my mom had been cooking and answered the door with a knife in her hand. She had to threaten the guy with the knife before he'd leave. (Later when she called the police they told her that they wouldn't have pressed any charges had she stabbed the guy.
  • Breaking News: Gunman was 'weird'. No shit.
  • It would be more fair to compare these situations to a domestic terrorist act. Mmm.
  • What I don't understand at all is why he didn't become a citizen. As someone who came to the States at a similar (slightly older) age, I went through the whole naturalization process too. My green (actually pink) card was only supposed to last for 10 years, and I took the oath and got my commemorative miniature flag sometime in the seventh year. How did this psycho keep his GC for 15 years and why didn't he naturalize?
  • Source: Gunman angry at 'rich kids' Check out how the photo of the alleged shooter is the same as the one in the previous link, only flattened just enough to give him a pissed off look. This adds to my suspicion that CNN photo editors are either unscrupulous, high, or just don't care.
  • Cho left a note in his dorm in which he railed against "rich kids," "debauchery" and "deceitful charlatans" Perhaps he was challenging them all to a duel. Too soon for that ... sorry.
  • I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Richard McBeef is the worst play I've ever read. There. I've said it.
  • Turns out that Mr. Brownstone is marginally better than Richard McBeef -- the title page and cast of characters eat up two of the eleven pages, and then much of the rest is taken up by GNR lyrics, reducing the amount of original content. So buddy was into GNR. Fasten your seatbelts, Axl fans...
  • Stupid tags.
  • Ismail Axl?
  • Was I supposed to sympathize with Jane, Joe and John? Because I found myself cheering for Mr. Brownstone.
  • On the page of the Westboro Baptist Church (not linking):
    WBC will preach at the funerals of the Virginia Tech students killed on campus during a shooting rampage April 16, 2007. You describe this as monumental horror, but you know nothing of horror — yet. [Eze 7:18 snipped] Why did this happen, you ask? It’s simple. Your military chose to shoot at the servants of God today, and all they got for their effort was terror. Then, the LORD your God sent a crazed madman to shoot at your children. Was God asleep while this took place? Was He on vacation? Of course not. He willed this to happen to punish you for assailing His servants.
    [via technorati]
  • Was I supposed to sympathize with Jane, Joe and John? I think that was the idea, but it was pretty hard to. They all had that weird anal fixation. I was pleased to see Brownstone end up with the ticket for five million bucks, instead of those impromptu GNR-singin' freaks. Also -- tickets from a slot machine?
  • nicely linked, dx.
  • He wrote this play. Doesn't seem to be violent enough to warrant counselling on it's own. Surprising work for an English Major. He must have spent all of 10 minutes on it. He brings great shame to the Asian community with his lackluster approach to studies. Oh yeah.. and the mass murder thing.
  • Oups petebest, already linked it.
  • This adds to my suspicion that CNN photo editors are either unscrupulous, high, or just don't care. I call unfair to drug users!
  • That script is spooky. /obvious
  • I didn't bother to read the script, so I probably should keep my comments outta this, but would the script be described as "spooky" if he hadn't shot anyone? Sometimes things people think are "edgy" or "cool" creep me out even if the writer/artist/photographer/movie maker hasn't shot anyone (in a non-metaphorical sense.)
  • Maybe not "spooky", GramMa, but definitely "troubling." The work of a very angry boy.
  • To echo others here, I just can't make the connection between his anger -- even the level of anger displayed in that script -- and his actions. It just doesn't make sense, doesn't seem possible, is mindboggling.
  • Mrs. SMT just got word via the Indonesian embassy in DC that one of the victims, Partahi Mamora Halomoan Lumbantoruan, was a 34 year-old PhD candidate (civil engineering) from Indonesia. His 35th birthday would have been next week. My condolences to his family overseas...
  • I didn't structure that sentence quite right, but I'm not thinking *quite* right taking all of this tragic event in...
  • I don't think it's possible to take it in. I keep hearing people talking about it, and put in my two cents (as one must), but in a detached and analytical way, like talking about a movie I've seen. I wonder, if I hadn't been in the US at the time, whether this is how 9/11 would have felt, hearing about it from a great distance.
  • I wonder, if I hadn't been in the US at the time, whether this is how 9/11 would have felt, hearing about it from a great distance. My Dad was in Holland at the time visiting his parents, and got there on Sept. 10th. He was away from TVs for quite a while. He would casually mention that people were talking about New York on the bus and such, and he would sort of listen in, as my sister was living there at the time. It took a while for us to convince him that 9/11 was a Big Deal, and figure out how the heck he was going to come back. It wasn't until he got back here that he saw the footage and said 'Holee SHIT!'. Yeah. Holee Shit.
  • At least 127 people killed on Wednesday in series of blasts in Baghdad I only mention it because some tragedy is entirely predictable and avoidable. The VT shootings were not predictable, although that they were seems to be the current point of view of the news about them. "He was a loner, acted strangely, professors were worried, etc"
  • I suspect the 'I always knew' talk is something other than what it seems. If you always knew the guy was 'off', then it leads to the inevitable question of 'why didn't you do anything', which is where the mumbling starts of 'it's not my place', or 'I did, but they didn't act on it', etc. IANAPsychologist, but I would guess that either they didn't know that he was capable of something like this, but in retrospect can see its possibility, or it's something of a delayed defense mechanism, where they say they 'always knew' to maintain denial that they were at serious risk, and had no idea. MTC, YMMV, etc., etc.
  • The media coverage around the event is already getting weird. I got a request from the local tv news to interview about how the VT kids are using social networking sites (facebook, etc.) to contact each other. I assume they want to connect it to how local kids might use the sites in the event of a local tragedy, I dunno.
  • I just got off the phone with one of our faculty who retired from VT two years ago. I know he still has friends and close ties there. I just plain didn't have the guts to ask him how this is affecting him.
  • Capt. We just had two incidents here in Idaho where people KNEW the perps had problems--One was a school kid killing his parent, who was also a teacher, the other was an adult who killed his girlfriend and went on a rampage before shooting himself. The boy had come from an abuse situation and was known to have problems. The older fella had been in and out of prison and done anger management classes. There just are not any social resources to follow and counsel or treat people with serious mental/anger/behavioral problems. We have ONE overworked jr. and sr. high school counselor for the whole COUNTY here. And it isn't just Idaho; it's everywhere in the US. And they wonder why "something wasn't done." We just don't take care of people.
  • I’ve been debating about sharing this, since it’s probably TMI and redolent of attention/pity whoring. But I wanted to follow up, and shed some personal insight on, what BlueHorse said. (Not that it apples to a university setting, but related to the theme.) When I was in kindergarten, I was brutally beaten by a couple of older boys (age twelve or so). Without going into gory details (which I can’t really, since most of the details are still blocked out of my memory) it went far, far beyond a normal playground beating-up. After days of insisting to my mother that it couldn’t have actually happened during school, when confronted with the medical report that measured the age of the bruises and proved it must have, the principal finally admitted that it had, but that the school wouldn’t be punishing the boys. Why? The ringleader was known to have psychological problems, and apparently his social worker believed punishment would be psychologically worse for him than the beating was for me, and he couldn’t be removed from school because DCS needed to have access to him there. Times, places, circumstances, and some of the players being who and what they were, the whole thing was swept under the rug (ostensibly for my own good). I still occasionally wonder who that boy went on to hurt, and how badly.
  • Yikes, TUM. That's quite something to ponder. Thanks for sharing your story, such an intimate and telling piece of one's life. Sounds like a horrible experience for someone to endure at the very beginning of their education. I recall watching a very brutal beating of a young student when I was in First grade - and I was quite scared to go to class for a time afterwards. I can only imagine how your experience affected you. Touching on what GramMa said, over and over I keep saying to myself that this young man must have endured something horrible in his life to be filled with such viral hate and anger. Could he have been helped? That will never be known, but it's painfully obvious that he was in need of serious help.
  • Holy shit, TUM, that's awful. And I don't think it's attention-whoring or TMI at all - it's a good addition to the conversation, and I appreciate that you've told it.
  • Sorry everyone -- I didn't mean to come across as flippant. It just seemed to me that for so many people to come forward and say 'I told you so', it just seemed like a lot of big talk, and I just wondered what motivated that. I have no doubt that some people did report it, and that nothing was done -- but a very small proportion of the people coming forward now. My apologies.
  • sorry/angry/wanna-fix-it-y to hear the story TUM. Thanks for adding it
  • Supra.
  • No, Capt. I didn't read you as flippant. Agreed there is a lot of 20/20 hindsight, and the attention whores love to get in front of a camera to say "I told you so." But there are lots of people who see problems coming and can't head it off. Or, as in TUM's case, things are easier for the administration if it's ignored. (Sorry for your troubles, TUM) Although, in fairness, I must admit that many times the "authorities" have their hands tied. We have a repeated physical abuse case in the elementary school where I subbed the other day that badly needs resolved. The kid has horrendous fresh bruising, and when I reported it, I was told it's under investigation, but social services practically has to see the beating to be able to remove the child from the parent. Whoops, Johnny fell down, again.
  • The package sent to NBC bore a U.S. Postal Service stamp recording that it had been received at a Virginia post office at 9:01 a.m. ET Monday, about an hour and 45 minutes after Cho shot two people in the West Ambler Johnston residence hall... That's freaky, as well as the photo they released... Damn, he took the time to go to the PO, and then return. Calculated.
  • I find the media reporting of this event and events like it to be exceptionally inappropriate and whorish. As such, I find myself not usually following this kind of story very closely. However, I have noticed this whole package that was sent to NBC. I find it indefensible that any media are reporting on it and showing it. It provides the attention and glorification that a person with these thoughts can only have dreamed of. It is truly a copycat recipe.
  • Jesus, TUM. I swear to F-ing-God that if anyone ever laid a finger on my child there would be a shit-storm of viscious fury like never seen before. I would make GODDAMN CERTAIN that that NEVER happened again, and most definitely make sure that EVERYONE heard about it. They WOULD be held accountable. What. The. Fuck. I am so sick and tired of the whole "Our hands are tied" bullshit, I think I'm going to go fucking ballistic. How has it gotten to be so unreasonable for us to guarantee ourselves a sense of safety anywhere, anymore? Why on earth have we let our 'societal rules' go by the wayside? There is good and bad, wrong and right. We are expected and, until the past few decades, required to live within these boundaries or we would pay the price. No longer is that the case. It used to be that if you could not live within society's defined rules you were placed in an environment that could keep a better eye on you. I get all the reasons why it has come to be this way, I really do. In some ways I agree, in many I don't. I don't because we have lost something vital; accountability. It flat out doesn't exist. Look anywhere and everywhere, you hardly see it happening. Sure, there's lot's of reasons why; there always is. God knows, we have to make cerain sure that everyone's rights are attended to no matter what they've done. Fuck that. If you can't live by the rules, you get put away. I don't care where just so long as it's away from people those of us who can and do live within those boundaries. I'm sorry for the rant but I have absolutely had it with all this horrific bullshit. What do my children get to look forward to? I'm pretty sure odds are that, at some point, my law-abiding, kind, generous children will pay the price, in some way, for someone who isn't law-abiding and doesn't give a shit. *deep despair*
  • .....cerain/certain sure.... I see there are more grammatical/puncuation errors.....please forgive. /sigh
  • Glad your internal debate turned out the way it did, TUM. Your tale definitely adds to the discussion, and definitely not in a pity whoring way. Bravo, and thanks.
  • Darshon, no apologies necessary. It's a rage-inducing topic, and most people are hard-pressed to write perfectly when they're full of rage. And FWIW, I worry about my daughter's future, too.
  • TUM, thanks for telling your story - I think it was fully appropriate. I've been reading quite a lot about this killer, and it seems to me that some attempts were made to help him deal with his problems. Up until today, I felt a terrible sadness about him, stemming from how depressed and out of touch with society he seemed. Then I saw the information about the stuff he sent to NBC.
  • As the sports radio guys say, thanks for bringing the passion Darshon. Re: the NBC package/latest details - two revelations there IMMO: 1: he was involuntarily institutionalized for his alleged mental disorder(s), and 2: perhaps there is a good reason to be suspicious that there was another person involved. Who mailed the package? Why isn't the evidence overwhelmingly clear that it was him in both attacks? 3:this image says "Hollywood" all over it for a reason. To me it speaks at least . . oh . . about 987 words.
  • homunculus, your link speaks to how I feel. I came home from work yesterday after reading about the Bahgdad bombing and wondered where in the media's list of priorities would this story fall. It barely registered on the radar. I was (as if I could be any more) outraged. The lack of accountability starts at the very top, ie; Bush (there, I said it). Jesus, I read about how pissed off men and women in India are over Richard Gere kissing some chick, yet I'll bet not too much rage was given to the loss of a couple of their own in the Blackburn shooting. What the fuck. People's priorities these days are so completely whacked out. My own little hometown was included the same list, Money magazine I believe, of the ten Best Places To Retire Young as Blackburn, VA. I look at people a little differently, now. I've always realized that you NEVER really know anyone, but that thought keeps a little closer to the forefront with each person I see and think I know. While you would think that my anger would do the opposite, I've been sequestering myself more often to some quiet place to be alone and to pray to God for some kind of understanding and pleading that something positive start happening for the sake of ourselves and our own friggin' planet, cause it isn't just people we're killing. /rant-again.
  • In 2005, Cho was declared mentally ill by a Virginia special justice, who declared he was "an imminent danger" to himself, a court document states. "The alternatives to involuntary hospitalization and treatment were investigated and deemed suitable," Barnett wrote. Barnett ordered Cho to follow "recommended treatments" on an outpatient basis. But that evaluation was the culmination of a fall semester that saw one professor threaten to resign if Cho remained in her class, another alert university authorities about the disturbing nature of his writings and calls to police from women who said Cho was stalking them.
  • All questions of mental instability aside, as an English major he should have been expelled for his atrocious writing.
  • Kick upwards, not downwards. Cho was mentally ill. That makes him a victim as much as those he killed.
  • It seems different though. By, like, a lot.
  • > Cho was mentally ill. That makes him a victim as much as those he killed. He was mentally ill, yes, but he was not "a victim as much as those he killed". He made a choice; they didn't. In his "manifesto", he presents himself as some sort of messianic figure; he aligns himself with the Columbine killers; and his actions between the first two killings and the rampage show that he craved notoriety for his deed. It seems to me that he knew what he was doing was evil, but he chose nonetheless to proceed.
  • He was delusional. Yes he is guilty of heinous crimes, but I doubt he could have stopped it himself.
  • no free will, eh?
  • If anyone is mentally ill enough that they can't make some basic right/wrong decisions, put them somewhere, away from others. That should be an absolute. Are we seriously going to continue to wait until the shit hits the fan? We wait until kindergarteners get the crap beat out of them, until someone decides to open up the uzi?? Really?
  • We are going to rapidly reach the point of vigilantism. We almost have to.
  • Well, that's the whole point of the "mentally ill" designation: a sickness is dictating the actions of one so labelled. A sickness that needs to be treated.
  • We are going to rapidly reach the point of vigilantism. We almost have to. I hate to say it, but that's kind of what he was thinking.
  • Well, there are things like mental illness that have the potential to override free will. I wouldn't go so far to say that he was as much of a victim as the people he killed. But a victim in another sense, yes.
  • Well, Nick, while I agree that that is likely what he was thinking, I'm talking more in the form of; if someone threatens me or mine, I can't afford to wait until law enforcement takes care of it. They need for me to actually be attacked, hurt and I am not going to wait for that to happen. What I'd like to see happen is our laws rewritten so that common sense and reasonable expectation be allowed back in to the equation. That closes the door to some of those lawyers out there, I know. I won't hold my breath for that to happen.
  • I wouldn't go so far to say that he was as much of a victim as the people he killed. Well, he is just as dead as his victims are.
  • Darshon, I hereby dub thee "Mother Bear". Woe unto those who find themselves between you and your cub. MOTHER BEAR OOH HA HA.
  • while I agree that that is likely what he was thinking, I'm talking more in the form of; if someone threatens me or mine, I can't afford to wait until law enforcement takes care of it. They need for me to actually be attacked, hurt and I am not going to wait for that to happen. One could argue that this was exactly what he was thinking as well. He made mention that he was doing this for his "kids" (granted, he didn't have physical children of his own, but he made this reference in his twisted ramblings). Perhaps he believed that he was being threatened. And apparently, he did not wait for someone else to take action on/against whatever/whoever he thought was railing against him. In essence, all 33 of these now-dead individuals were victims of mental disease. Mr. Cho being the direct victim, and the other completely innocent individuals indirect victims at the hands of this troubled person... It's sad any way you look at it. I feel deeply for all of their families, including the perp's. YMMV
  • Steel cage match: Mother Bear v. The Werzog. And yeah, more seriously, what SMT said. I've always felt really sorry for the families of people who do horrible things. How would it feel to be this kid's parent? My God.
  • The hard part is trying to sort out who's a legitimate threat and who's just rambling or letting off steam. We can't just throw people in mental institutions every time they say something scary. Clearly this guy set off alarm bells pretty much everywhere he went, but so does my sister's ex-husband. It's kind of like how serial killers are generally the product of horribly abusive childhoods, but very few horribly abused children grow up to be serial killers. Very, very few people who say/write disturbing, violent things end up committing mass murder. I'm not saying it shouldn't be easier to institutionalize some people involuntarily -- just like it should be easier to jail abusive spouses rather than relying on a piece of paper to make them keep their distance. But it's a hard line to draw.
  • The hard part is trying to sort out who's a legitimate threat and who's just rambling or letting off steam. How about this guy? “He made comments along the lines that he could understand how somebody could be angry enough to kill 32 people,” Wiesley said. “He said that there were things about CU, the fact that the classroom walls were unpainted Š the lighting in the classroom, were all things that were making him mad enough to do something. “They felt, in their mind, there was a good chance he was capable of carrying out something, based on the threats that he made in the class,” Wiesley said. Karson was arrested Tuesday afternoon and has been charged with one count of interference with staff, faculty or students of an educational institution, a misdemeanor.
  • One of the security guards at the museum where I worked was always going on about how unfair it was that he couldn't get his brother committed. He mentioned it at least three or four times a week. At least once a week I overheard him making some kind of phone call to family members or social services about it, going on and on about how he was obviously crazy and dangerous even if he hadn't done anything dangerous yet. We later found out that he'd been carrying on with his brother's wife for at least a year. Soon after he left the museum, both he and this woman were witnessed beating a black woman in a parking lot while yelling racial epithets, and were convicted under hate crime laws. Hopefully we'll be able to strike some kind of balance between ignoring those who truly need help, and allowing people to be put away on the say-so of people who don't know what they're talking about (as was common a couple of generations ago).
  • I wonder... the kid was ordered into care at the hospital, but then inexplicably released. Could insurance have had something to do with his premature "Sane!" stamp?
  • Nickdange: it was considered a voluntary commitment, and, in at least the parts of the US I have info about, if a voluntary commitment means that one can check out when they want. There was a time in California when one could have someone committed for a 72 hour evaluation if they were appearing suicidal or otherwise crazy, but that's not true anymore. I can understand that since those it could lead to abuses, but it came in handy once in my experience when one of my daughter's friends called from a San Francisco area transit station in extreme distress. It at least gave me a way to hope that he'd find help. Involuntary commitment, so far as I know, requires a finding that the person is a danger to himself or others. I'd guess that Cho could have been committed if he'd presented the looked-for symptoms while in custody. The hospital would have collected from the state if he had no insurance, at least where I've lived.
  • I caught David Kaczynski on Nightline tonight... he had some interesting comments, specifically the stigma that is attached to mental illness. He said something along the lines of, "by turning this person [Cho] into a monster, we are essentially throwing our hands up and and saying there's nothing we can do."
  • In other news, I finished my very last final exam of my undergraduate career on Tuesday, on Thursday a bomb threat was called into the uni. Nothing was found by police or security. In this Virginia incident I am reminded of the Montréal college shooting last fall and the Russian school hostage crisis years ago. And all it makes me think is: Gun control isn't the issue. Medical insurance isn't the issue. The culture of violence isn't the issue. The issue is tragedy. Let's make stop with the blame game and just provide some compassion for the victims; that is, the people who live on less loved ones. I don't believe the dead feel that pain. Yes, this is a tragedy, but it isn't a symptom of freedoms. And by taking a people's freedoms away, tragedies of this scale won't be averted. It may be possible to avert disasters by taking an individual's freedoms away, however - but that isn't my point. Please don't read freedom as a buzzword in the above. I know it sounds cheeseball, but I don't know how to articulate that paragraph any better for what I'm trying to get across. Does anyone know what the rate of bomb threats at universities is like during finals?
  • Librescu buried. "I walked through the streets today with my head held high because I have such a father," said his elder son, Joe.
  • Mensch
  • This discussion reminds me alot of this story that I saw on NBC not too long ago. Also, I'm interested in reading a good, in depth, discussion of the pros and cons of NBC showing Cho's photos and videos. I'm rather conflicted about it myself. Anybody see any good discussions on it anywhere?
  • Your absolutely right, InsolentChimp. It was a random, unexplainable and unpreventable tragedy. When something like this happens, we want so desperately to understand, but we can't. There is no (please forgive the expression) "magic bullet" here, no one thing that anyone could have done to stop it. The worst part? We keep looking for meaning, but there really isn't a code to crack here, no secret message buried in the horror. It happened, it was terrible, we don't understand it, we never will.
  • The Current discussed it this morning, partly because the ceeb refused to air any of it. I only caught the first bit. Personally, I don't see what showing the video adds in terms of actual news. By now, we all know that Cho had serious mental problems. The facts that have come out about his legal history and attempts at treatment -- but most importantly, the deaths of everyone that day -- should be enough to convince anyone that yes, Cho had problems. Res ipsa loquitur. We shouldn't need to have more evidence to demonstrate that, least of all some purulent, self-aggrandizing video. This guy, for all of his problems, wanted attention. To indulge him is to do injustice to the victims. I understand that we all want to know more about what happened, but what do the contents of the video really add? That it exists tells us everything, really. Some people have talked about it as a valuable lesson in identifying the crazies that live among us -- but c'mon. It's not like the guy was walking around campus as in the video prior to any of this happening. And if someone does look like that, you probably don't need an instructional video to tell you that that guy is a little off. Go get your voyeuristic kicks off of the Smoking Gun, if you really need to -- there's no need for it to be on mainstream news (which is less and less about news as opposed to entertainment anyway, but that's a separate discussion). I just don't see what watching it is going to get you in the end...
  • First bit of the discussion -- not the video.
  • Why God didn't save the Virginia Tech students. Inflammatory fundamentalist propoganda video. Regarding the Cho video: I think it's important that they showed it, if for no other reason than it humanizes him. It's important to remember that it was a person, somewhat like us, who commited these horrific acts. As far as "giving him the attention he craved", well, he's dead, there's no winning or losing, no scoreboard here, just a desire to understand.
  • That video brought to you by nutjob Don Wildmon.
  • I'll second what Nick said. This however, seems like a bad idea.
  • This however, seems like a bad idea. Jeeze. But also inevitable, I guess.
  • Nugent: Gun-free zones are recipe for disaster Yes, Ted Nugent. Weighs in on the importance of carrying loaded firearms in public at all times. I mention it because it's on the front page of CNN and officially marks the end of this story as a news event. The bells are tolled, the story is known. All that's left is this stuff. (You may also be interested in the "point-or-counterpoint" article, Let's lay down our right to bear arms). And, also, what Louis said.
  • I believe STRONGLY in the right of ALL citizens to bear Revolutionary War-era muskets. Let's get REAL about being strictly constructionist, why don't we.
  • But also inevitable Agreed, but what baffles me more is the rush to put it out there. I read through the "plays". I was basically indifferent (aside from having the Mr. Brownstone tune stuck in my head for a couple of days). NBC putting out the videos and images gives us insight, perhaps helps us to understand the person who committed these terrible acts. A random person acting these plays out days later and posting video online seems to be after one thing: attention. What insight/understanding could that possibly give us as a society?
  • Though, surely there were individuals at NBC who were happy that they recieved the package. I mean, they didn't hesitate to slap their logo on all of it to make sure everyone knew exactly where it came from. It all sucks. And yeah, Ted Nugent weighing in now? As pete said, the end of this story as a news event.
  • Yeah, yeah. That whole "gun-free-zone" thing is being echoed by Coulter, Malkin, O'Reilly. It's a "talking point".
  • As far as "giving him the attention he craved", well, he's dead, there's no winning or losing Except for the next guy who wants to make a name for himself. I hate the celebritization of murderers, especially when celebrity is a motive. They shouldn't even be mentioned by name...just "the VT shooter" or "the prick who shot Lennon", etc.
  • Sorry, guys -- this guy, however sick and misguided, did it in part to get attention. As did the guy who shot Lennon (albeit more explicitly), and many others. I have no problem denying this guy the attention he sought for one simple reason: the price of that attention was 32 lives. If you give him that attention, in a way, you're justifying that price. At least, that's how I see it. YMMV.
  • Sorry, guys -- this guy, however sick and misguided, did it in part to get attention. As did the guy who shot Lennon (albeit more explicitly), and many others. I have no problem denying this guy the attention he sought for one simple reason: the price of that attention was 32 lives. If you give him that attention, in a way, you're justifying that price. At least, that's how I see it. YMMV.
  • My old eyes are having a hard time with all the tiny little text kicking around in this thread
  • *basks in the self-satisfaction that he is so much younger and able-bodied than fimbulvetr*
  • I mean, they didn't hesitate to slap their logo on all of it to make sure everyone knew exactly where it came from. That'll come back to bite them.
  • He's not a nut; he's Charlton's friend. And I completely agree: make the carrying of firearms designed for the express purpose of maiming and killing other human beings mandatory. From the age of 7. And flick knives. And ninja stars. In fact, the more instruments of death and pain everyone carries, the safer we all will be. Nothing crazy about thinking like that.
  • Jesus Christ. When I think about what some of the irrationally angry people I've come across in my life might have done if they'd been armed... Of course, I guess I could've shot them first! Yeah! Let's arm everybody! It'll be like Deadwood! COCKSUCKERS!
  • There's probably an article out there telling me this, maybe even in this conversation somewhere; but I'd be curious to know, of all the murder sprees that have happened, how many of them were done by people who legally owned their weapons.
  • The statement by Sun-Kyung Cho, sister of Seung-Hui Cho, on behalf of herself and her family: On behalf of our family, we are so deeply sorry for the devastation my brother has caused. No words can express our sadness that 32 innocent people lost their lives this week in such a terrible, senseless tragedy. We are heartbroken. We grieve alongside the families, the Virginia Tech community, our State of Virginia, and the rest of the nation. And, the world. Every day since April 16, my father, mother and I pray for students Ross Abdallah Alameddine, Brian Roy Bluhm, Ryan Christopher Clark, Austin Michelle Cloyd, Matthew Gregory Gwaltney, Caitlin Millar Hammaren, Jeremy Michael Herbstritt, Rachael Elizabeth Hill, Emily Jane Hilscher, Jarrett Lee Lane, Matthew Joseph La Porte, Henry J. Lee, Partahi Mamora Halomoan Lumbantoruan, Lauren Ashley McCain, Daniel Patrick O'Neil, J. Ortiz-Ortiz, Minal Hiralal Panchal, Daniel Alejandro Perez, Erin Nicole Peterson, Michael Steven Pohle, Jr., Julia Kathleen Pryde, Mary Karen Read, Reema Joseph Samaha, Waleed Mohamed Shaalan, Leslie Geraldine Sherman, Maxine Shelly Turner, Nicole White, Instructor Christopher James Bishop, and Professors Jocelyne Couture-Nowak, Kevin P. Granata, Liviu Librescu and G.V. Loganathan. We pray for their families and loved ones who are experiencing so much excruciating grief. And we pray for those who were injured and for those whose lives are changed forever because of what they witnessed and experienced. Each of these people had so much love, talent and gifts to offer, and their lives were cut short by a horrible and senseless act. We are humbled by this darkness. We feel hopeless, helpless and lost. This is someone that I grew up with and loved. Now I feel like I didn't know this person. We have always been a close, peaceful and loving family. My brother was quiet and reserved, yet struggled to fit in. We never could have envisioned that he was capable of so much violence. He has made the world weep. We are living a nightmare. There is much justified anger and disbelief at what my brother did, and a lot of questions are left unanswered. Our family will continue to cooperate fully and do whatever we can to help authorities understand why these senseless acts happened. We have many unanswered questions as well. Our family is so very sorry for my brother's unspeakable actions. It is a terrible tragedy for all of us. (Thought it'd be good to put this here.)
  • God (intentional usage), Dinesh D'Souza is a fucking prick. Way to use this to try to further whatever divide you can think up, you fucking prick!
  • I don't subscribe to this modern obsession with explaining everything in terms of mental illnesses. It seems plain to me that Cho was an idiot (by which I mean person of low intelligence). He was surely depressed -- who wouldn't be with a useless below average English B.A. and no prospects in life? Many people have walked in his shoes, but they had the sense to commit suicide alone; believe me, I know personally the Asian propensity for committing suicide over academic or social underperformance. Cho just wanted a flashy suicide, thanks to his inexplicable messiah complex. All this nonsense about rich kids and hedonism is just more flash: fucker just wanted to die big. It's sad that he has fucked his family up for the rest of their lives. I can't imagine them having a day of happiness again.
  • Eloquent words spoken by his sister. What an awful burden to carry.
  • if you look at the amount of violence we have in games that young people play at 7, 8, 10, 12, 15 years of age 'Scuse, me, aren't the onservatives supposed to be about deregulation? Doesn't it then become incumbent on the parents to monitor the games their children play? if you look at the fact that we refuse to say that we are, in fact, endowed by our creator Who' saying we're not endowed by our creator? The only difference of opinion is, who or what that creator is. one of the Halloween costumes this last year was being able to be either a prostitute or a pimp at 10, 11, 12 years of age Again, I wouldn't expect a Repblican to endores restricting the marketplace. Isn't the marketplace what's supposed to fix everything? When I read shit like this, and know that there are plenty of people out there reading and hearing it and taking it seriously, it really makes me grab for the Zoloft bottle. Was our society like this all along, and I just didn't notice? And if not, how did we get here?
  • I am consoled by the fact that Newt is widely regarded as a pathetic has-been.
  • (Really? I thought he'd gone through the Nixonian-Reaganite whitewash of time..?)
  • Why is it that no matter how loud I scream "Nobody forces parents to let their kids play violent video games at 7 or wear a prostitute costume at 11. In fact, why ARE parents letting this happen?!", my voice just gets hoarser, and nobody hears.
  • That simply didn't make sense. What the hell was he talking about? Also: good point, Lara.
  • Because of liberalism. Weren't you listening?
  • In fact, why ARE parents letting this happen?! Because of liberalism. Weren't you listening?
  • 60 Minutes had an interesting segment on this last night. The Secret Service recently expanded its program of interviewing and profiling assassins to include school shooters. They found that in over 80% of school shooting cases, the shooter told someone he was going to do it, and those friends almost never tell. In one case, the shooter told a friend to bring a camera to school to take pictures, because he was bringing a gun to campus. Did the friend call the police or school authorities? "No, he brought a camera."
  • I saw that too, mct. It was interesting and scary, and the feeling I got about the whole thing was that the shooters, and the people they told, don't see adults as people who could help in meaningful ways. They see adults as part of the problem, or don't take them into account at all.
  • Yeah, I think that's right, the friends in particular were afraid to talk for fear of what might happen -- to themselves, to the shooter, etc. They were afraid that those in authority would just dole out punishment without regard to getting psychiatric help for the potential shooter, or that they (the friends) would be punished for having knowledge of the plan. There's a deeply-rooted distrust of adults in there, I think. Of course, there are a lot of authority figures in the US who have given those kids some damn good reasons to believe that.
  • 18 year-old high school student arrested for writing an essay officials described as disturbing and inappropriate. The creative writing assignment in Lee's English class on Monday instructed students to "write whatever comes to your mind. Do not judge or censor what you are writing," according to a copy of the assignment. I suppose that he's Asian doesn't have anything to do with it either...
  • "In creative writing, you're told to exaggerate," Lee said. "It was supposed to be just junk. ... There definitely is violent content, but they're taking it out of context and making it something it isn't." The charges against Lee could result in a possible $1,500 fine and up to 30 days in jail if he is convicted.
  • Man, I hate getting caught for thoughtcrime.
  • Well, someone has to be blamed. I thought it was the police's fault for wasting five critical minutes just to break into the building.
  • I feel sorry for her.
  • Yikes. I'm sooooo glad I don't have her perspective. She's certainly going to make a few people.....upset.
  • What exactly is her perspective? I didn't see a link to her column in the Wired piece. Also: who is she and how well known/well read is her column?
  • Cho was a frequent user of eBay. He bought and sold many books about violence, death and mayhem, including several books he had used in his English classes. Well, there's your problem right there.
  • Direct link to the rant in question At the campus-wide convocation to honor the victims, Professor Nikki Giovanni read what purported to be a poem. On behalf of the English Department, she declaimed: "We do not understand this tragedy, We know we did nothing to deserve it." Maybe others will render a different verdict and ask why taxpayers are paying professors at Virginia Tech to teach worthless and psychologically destructive courses. She must burn with self-hate...
  • We should burn all those books; obviously, that'll stop heinous tragedies.
  • Phyllis Schlafly is still around, who knew?
  • What a parody. Could anyone write that and actually mean it?
  • Damn, I shouldn't have taken that Faulkner course. Now I'm likely to marry my half-brother, set a barn on fire, and keep a dead body in the boudoir of my decrepit mansion.
  • Ah yes, Phyllis Schlafly. A total waste of meatspace. Let us not waste time on the fecal droppings from her putrid lips.
  • I just have an opinion on things, and there is nothing wrong with stating your opinion if you are asked," he continues. "Everyone wants that right, and because you are famous doesn't mean you have less of a right." I demand the right not to give a rat's butt about what Travolta thinks.
  • It's a free country, especially if you earn between $10 million and $20 million per film.
  • Hmmm, so anti-psychotics cause psychotic behavior... interesting point Travolta, now get back in your cage and dance.