April 03, 2007

• That postcard idea is really cool. I think I'll have to try that.
• *looks at shoes and cries* Nice read, Fes! At least I have the proper color of socks on...
• As Machiavelli knew, appearances are real. Good read, thanks Fester! The person who says: 'I don't care what I wear, I just put on a T-shirt and jeans' is merely confirming how much he cares about creating a certain sort of wearily insouciant impression. One, I'd never thought of it that way, and two: jeans?
• It's all about the socks....
• somebody who does not care about their appearance will care about little else Really? Jay McInerney says of life today in meritocratic Manhattan: 'You won't be judged by your accent... but you will be judged by your shoes.' That depends very much on your crowd. And then there's the question of whether you care, or whether you should. Disraeli is helpful here. His 'never complain and never explain' is well-known, but I particularly enjoy Elbert Hubbard's addendum: 'Your friends do not need it and your enemies will not believe you.' Yeah, last thing you'd want to do is get more intimate with the people in your life. Blessed with the courage of his own convictions, he leans to extremes, black or white. Never grey. You simply can't ignore him. Because it's more important to be noticed than to be truly thoughtful. If you have the nerve to say it, something like, 'There's a charming little panel by Valdes Leal in the monastery at Elciego' has an impressive effect...the important thing is to say something interesting. Striving for honesty is for fools! I do agree that you are what you pretend to be, but I found this writer to be a bit too smug, and a bit too full of crap.
• Aut tace aut loquere meliora silentio'. From now on, this quote is mine. HW, I second. MonkeyFilter: a bit too smug, and a bit too full of crap *hitches up overalls, kicks shit off boots, slouches out the door
• /steps carefully around feces GranMa, you forgot your trapdoor. Appearances can be very revealing.
• Well put, HawthorneWingo. Hear, hear. *stands behind furniture to hide three-year-old footwear*
• Nothing wrong with being non-conformist and all, as long as you understand and accept the consequences. I know a few people who complain about not being able to find a decent job; meanwhile they're covered in tattoos and piercings, and refuse to wear anything but ripped jeans and sneakers. Yes...it's totally stupid that you will be judged by your outward appearance, but that doesn't make it any less true, or any less impactful on your life.
• Or you can look for a job where you're judged on your abilities and not your appearance.
• If you've got enough money to eat while you're looking.
• Jesus loves me for who I am and everything? But I still have to dress up to go to his house. It's weird.
• What does this say about me: I wear a pair of shoes (on the weekends anyways) that I purchased in 2001. They are the original model of this style in black. I bought them at a bargain of $5 + tax in some cheezy Connecticut sporting goods outlet store. They are the only pair of shoes I have worn since, aside from "professional work attire." They are on their sixth year, running quite ragged and tattered. The laces were knotted tight, and I clipped them short. The heels have finally given way (that must have been some space-aged rubber they used, because they just refused to wear out), and my feet and socks get wet when it rains. I refuse to buy a new shoes because they are so darned comfy. I like they way they squeak on laminate surfaces. I can jump to super heights when I have them on. So, tell me... what does this say about me? I dare 'ya!
• Well sugarmilktea (And much like me) Delights to wear old shoes This certain pair's refused to wear away Unfortunately For us and we The fashion's poor behaviour Our dashin' red-faced neighbor's Forced to say: "Now listen old bean, You must be seen To have some style and grace now, Old shoes can have their place now Far awayyyyyyy!" And so our aloofness Nee sneakeredy goofness Doth rattle todays dresserati; Our prattling's slouchy and spotty And yet, Hooraayyyy! *bows, passes old ratty hat*
• Wooooo HOOO! *applauds wildly* *ducks to avoid the ratty lids from the many petebests' heads*
• This guy isn't talking about slobs, rocket. He's talking about "the person who says: 'I don't care what I wear, I just put on a T-shirt and jeans'". There are many, many, many successful, intelligent, passionate, and, yes, important people who wear a T-shirt and jeans to work. To judge them all as beneath one because of T-shirts and jeans is just plain stupid.
• Wouldn't the true test be whether they wore the T-shirt and jeans to the job interview? What scenario would encourage that? We are a visual species whose eyes are naturally drawn to things we consider beautiful: art, architecture and nature. I think that acknowledging the import of first impressions as part of human nature is significant. nice prose, petebest.
• I don't think that's what he's saying at all, HW. I think what he's saying is that we all use clothes, speech, etc to craft ourselves for the three sets of eyes he mentioned. I craft myself with neckties and wingtips - perhaps it's more obvious, whatever it is that I'm saying about myself by wearing them. But those that wear t-shirts and jeans, they are crafting for themselves and for others an image as well, though they may deny it. It's more semiotics than aesthetics.
• I don't disagree with that core message. More than anything I'm turned off by the condescending tone. The opening paragraph of the article: "Self-invented people are the most interesting ones of all. Believe me, I know...The difference is in the intangibles of the personality we create for ourselves." This guy is a bit too self-satisfied for my taste. I would not want to have a beer with him, no matter how well he dressed, or how clever and opinionated he was. Not unless he was going to pay me money.
• > > Or you can look for a job where you're judged on your abilities and not your appearance. > If you've got enough money to eat while you're looking. Well, if you don't have enough money to eat, you should be doing anything you can to get a job. Prioritizing nipple rings and nose studs over food is a bad idea. > But those that wear t-shirts and jeans, they are crafting for themselves and for others an image as well, though they may deny it. I agree with this in general, but with two caveats. I know a few people to whom "crafting an image" simply would not occur. They wear clothes to keep warm and because they have to, but they don't have much conception about how others perceive them, either visually or emotionally. There are other people who accept that image is important and knowingly adopt a particular look because it's a timesaver and they don't want to spend time thinking about their appearance. I know some three-piece suit wearing finance types who fall into this category: they have several very similar suits in different weights, a week's worth of shirts and ties, three decent pairs of shoes, and two weeks' worth of socks. I've conducted a lot of interviews for software development jobs, and ordinarily I'd expect an interviewee to be reasonably well dressed, but I've absolutely no problem with a t-shirt and jeans. To be honest, I don't really notice unless someone is overdressed. If a resume has made it past the first cut, it's worth talking to the candidate. No matter what they're wearing, you can normally tell if they're bullshitting within the first 20 minutes.
• I know a few people to whom "crafting an image" simply would not occur. They wear clothes to keep warm and because they have to, but they don't have much conception about how others perceive them, either visually or emotionally. But do you think it may be a subconscious image-crafting on their part? I know people who start out wearing some kind of casual uniform everywhere, like my old boss who never wore long trousers. There may be an element of "I just don;t care," but eventually, especially if they somehow get the idea that others might expect them to dress differently, then it becomes a sort of badge of honor. An "I ain't gonna knuckle under to the MAN" kind of thing, even if they would never use those words to descibe themselves.
• They wear clothes to keep warm and because they have to, but they don't have much conception about how others perceive them, either visually or emotionally. There's a reality show (that I don't watch) called "What not to wear" or something like that, and the premise is that two fashion-conscious people re-make a fashion unconscious person by describing what sort of "look" works for them and why. The latter part can be kind of interesting in that everybody does have visual strengths of some kind - maybe jeans and a T-shirt play to them, maybe not. I hear you HWingo, and my perfect world includes the 'wear-what-you-want' ethos. But something I've very grudgingly conceded is that looks matter enough to other people to change what I wear for them. The part I'm kind of surprised to be thinking is that it's not all worthless fakery, but maybe there's something valid to it. Although yeah the author's a little holier-than-my-jeans in tone sometimes
• But something I've very grudgingly conceded is that looks matter enough to other people to change what I wear for them. We all do...bit it might help to look at it differently: You're not changing yourself for them, but rather to get something out of them.
• Here's a guy looking for a job, mmmkay? He's honest, dependable, intelligent, would be a great leader. He gets up in the morning, brushes his teeth, combs his $30 haircut and puts on a suit and shoes that probably cost him about $350. He's presentable. The next fella is the same caliber, but has a strong drive toward power. He's had his teeth whitened, his jowls firmed, combs a $300 haircut, and puts on a suit and shoes that costs $2000. Which one are you going to vote for as president?
• You mean he isn't already the president?
• Ask a gay man: fashion edition. (YouTube)
• 'Twas a gay man taught me to walk in high heels. re: the feller in the vidoe - what is it about the combination of Southern and swishy that increases both the Southernness and the swishiness?
• 'Twas a gay man taught me to walk in high heels. You mean David? Nice guy. Always time to help, y'kn-woah! I got it - I got it . . . heel-toe-heel-toe-heel-toe
• Can you tell the difference?
• I only got one wrong, dxlifer!
• Two wrong. "I met her in a club down in old Soho..."
• They are who they pretend to be.
• I'm gonna pretend I didn't read that.
• Once when I had to fire somebody I pretended to be Shiva the Destroyer.
• I was wearing cheap, scuffed shoes, but amazingly I still got a lot of respect.
• *kowtows to WingoShiva