March 09, 2004

• perpetual adolescence? why, that's nothing but a silly urban legend.
• Hm. Interesting read, Fes. My first impression was that a definition of maturity that hinges heavily on attire is more representative of what's wrong with adulthood than what's right about it. My second impression was that neoteny has a long and established history and is more revealing of a mature personality than stern disapproval of fart jokes could ever be. Then I started to wonder if the rising tide of simplistic adolescent thought and anti-intellectualism in our society might be a result of this undeniable phenomena instead of an unrelated but parallel trend. There is certainly a shortage of adults in society, government, entertainment, and business, but is that the result of individuals seeing nothing wrong with choosing to be hateful, greedy, self-centered, wasteful perma-adolescent slobs, or an unintended consequence of the demise of the serious hat?
• Really? I thought the problem with Enron is that it's pretty much what happens when you get a bunch of wholly self-interested people acting together.
• The Downfall of Civilization happened right about when they replaced our beloved top hats with those filthy fedoras.
• No, no Richer - it was Casual Friday, not the Fedora.
• Western Civilization was over way before casual fridays.
• I saw that the site linked was The Weekly Standard and ran away from the computer screaming. Isn't their editor (Fred Barnes) still looking for WMDs in Iraq?
• They shouldn't have given wimmen the vote! [/curmudgeon]
• We should accept responsibility and restrain our dreams. We should worry about the clock tick-tick-ticking our seconds away. Why? What advantage does that give us? He had children by the time he was 26, and he scoffs at those who'd wait until they turned 40, or who choose to never have children. He talks about how people were forced into discarding their childhoods, as if that isn't a thing to avoid,(why else use force?) but rather a thing to embrace. Responsibility is something to accept only when neccesary, only when I choose. His choice to marry and procreate at 26 in no way makes him a more mature person. Instead, it makes him someone who chose to give up some things to attain others. People who don't have children, who choose other paths are not less mature. This whole article reeks of self congratulatory masturbation. Of course, this post does as well. The advantage being I'm immature enough not to care. After all, if 80% of us do it, then it can't be all bad.
• neoteny has a long and established history Yes, but in humans? I'm no biologist, but from what I understand, the concern is that humans (especially females) are for whatever reason becoming sexually mature earlier, not later. I saw that the site linked was The Weekly Standard and ran away from the computer screaming. Isn't their editor (Fred Barnes) still looking for WMDs in Iraq? I don't know that the Standard is any more or less political than, say, the New Republic, or the Guardian, and no one has trouble linking to them. This article is apolitical, and was posted at A&L Daily, which is not only good but tries dilligently to be apolitical as well, so I felt it was ok. Responsibility is something to accept only when neccesary, only when I choose. You had me up until here, Pez. You must - or rather, should - accept responsibility for your actions and the effect they have on the people around you. I do agree that the author might have framed his arguments a little more maturely :) the demise of the serious hat is, in the grand scheme, negligible. But what I do agree with is the sense that, at least in American culture (and ulotrichous, I believe this is more a cultural trend, rather than a biological imperative), the line where previously it was possible to delineate adolescent from adult (exhibited in metaphor by the presence of the serious hat, perhaps) has blurred, and I tend to agree that this is perhaps not without untroublesome aspects. There *does* seem to be a decreasing interest in assuming adult-sized responsibilities, understanding and assuming mature obligations and making adult sacrifices. Certain markets trend increasingly toward youth, to the detriment of more sophisticated consumers(think: movies). And, like in the comment about Enron and touched on by ulotrichous, the idea that extending further the natural self-involvement, short-sightedness, ignorance of youth - in short, the irresponsibility of adolescence - can have significant repercussions in the adult world. While there is certain nothing wrong with opting not to get married and have children, the other end of the spectrum is that of the 30-year-old ensconced in his parents' home - never assuming the full gravity and responsibility of entering adulthood, while at the same time appearing to *be* an adult to the rest of the culture. That dichotomy is the crux, perhaps - to belabor the analogy, Jeffrey Skilling *appeared* to be a grown-up; he wore suits, he wore his hair short, he seemed to be involved in grown-up activities with other grown-ups. It was only after his company disintegrated did the rest of us learn that neither he nor his colleagues were *actually* grown-ups - they were adolescents wearing serious hats, who had be given grown-up responsibilities, and who had in turn shirked them in spectacular fashion, to a great many people's detriment.
• the demise of the serious hat is, in the grand scheme, negligible I beg to differ. *touches brim of serious hat with cane*
• Fes vs. Pez. Interesting... I have to agree with both of you to some point. Growing up is hard. Taking responsibility is hard. being mature is hard. But being mature is not about having a family, a job, a reputation, and doing what the society expects from you. To be mature is to be wise; to learn from your mistakes; to take responsibility for your actions, good or bad ones; to acknowledge your limitations and work around them; to listen to what others have to tell you, even if you don't agree with them; to be able to disagree thoughtfully; to be critic of yourself and the world around you; to be unafraid of being yourself and taking a stand before those who try to push you one way or the other; to recognize the difference between what you want and what you really need; to realize that not every dream can come true but at least you must try to reach them; to gain something from your misfortune and failure; and, more than anything, to acknowledge that we can always learn, play and have fun, just like kids do. I must add that in no way I consider myself mature enough and, probably, I never will.
• I agree with you in regards to my comment Fes. It was very poorly thought out on my part. The question then is how much affect your actions have on those around you. If you are the head of Enron, then you do have responsibilities. They are however, the ones you've chosen to take on, rather than having them forced on you by circumstances. If you then ignore responsibilities that you've chosen to assume, that is being false to yourself. It isn't necesarily being childish, as even children recognize the need to follow through on a responsibility they've accepted. I guess I'm arguing with the idea that a responsibility exists before I decide to do something. As a somewhat workable example: I see a man drop his tophat and monocle, theoretically I should tell him. However, I don't have the responsibility to carry through on that until I actually choose to do it.
• And why, just now, does so much of contemporary entertainment come in the form of animation or comic-book cartooning? Such television shows as "The Simpsons" and "King of the Hill," the occasional back page in the New York Times Book Review or the New Yorker and the comic-book novel, all seem to feel that the animated cartoon and comic-book formats are very much of the moment. They are of course right, at least if you think of your audience as adolescent, or, more precisely, as being unwilling quite to detach themselves from their adolescence. That's just bullshit. Cartoons and comics aren't inherently adolescent, surely. We shall never have another presidential candidate tested by the Depression or by his experience in World War II. And that's a bad thing? (And, although of course you'd hope and pray that we don't, you can never know for sure that we aren't going to have to endure such events again) The triumph of youth culture has conquered perhaps nowhere more completely than in the United States. The John F. Kennedy administration, with its emphasis on youthfulness, beginning with its young president--the first president routinely not to wear a serious hat--gave it its first public prominence. But surely at the moment, a government whose most prominent figures (after the President) are Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld has reversed this. And George Bush is hardly that young, either. The only young president recently has been Bill Clinton. Reagan and Bush Snr sure weren't. The coarsening of American culture seems part of the adolescent phenomenon. Television commercials have gotten grosser and grosser. The level of profanity on prime-time television shows has risen greatly over the years. Because the old never swear. (The dirtiest, crudest people I've ever worked with have been old ladies, in their late fifties, and early sixties. And its always amusing to see the right lads I've workded with squirm in disgust and confusion at this - old people shouldn't talk about sex) But then again, what do I know? I'm soon to be 26, still live with my parents, single, have no children. In short, I suppose, I'm part of the problem.
• As a somewhat workable example: I see a man drop his tophat and monocle, theoretically I should tell him. However, I don't have the responsibility to carry through on that until I actually choose to do it. Fes, in the moment you make the decision not to tell him about his tophat and monocle you are making yourself responsible for the outcome of that decision. If the president/pope/God/Allah/whatever comes to you saying that you are the only one that can save 10000 people in the probable case that a meteor hits the earth just by pushing a button that only you can push, and you desist from that responsibility, you are making yourself responsible for the outcome of that decision. We don't choose the way we are born or most of the situations we are put up in life but that doesn't mean we can wash our hands free from them just because we didn't consciously choose them to be.
• I mean, Pez, not Fes. damnit! sorry!
• I agree that "uniforms" do not the adult make, though a well carried fedora could have clouded my mind at one time or another. On the other hand, I don't think of a 26 year old as a complete adult. I also think that's a good thing since (IMO)the challenging of conventions and creativity of youth shouldn't disappear too soon. Maybe in artists and wastrels (we do some a few of both) it should never disappear. I, and others of my age group and older with whom I've discussed this, weren't ready to enter "adulthood" until about 35. We had gained enough knowledge and self confidence, by then, to be able to balance and appreciate the selective wisdom of the past (old fogies) and the pushing of limits by the future (young upstarts.) I do think I see a tendency nowadays for young upstarts to try to hang onto adolescence for way too long, but that may be because I've become an old fogy. I have a sneaking suspicion that the thing that tipped the balance was when adolescence was singled out as a separate culture. There was a time when a kid was a kid until he/she married and/or left the old homeplace. When I was growing up, leaving home at about 18 was the norm, even though a primitive adolescent culture was happening. At this point (old fogy judgement) society seems to expect that nerdish types will continue to have weekly Dungeons and Dragons gaming sessions while taking their characters too seriously, and the like. And, I think most of us act as we're expected to, on some level.
• /derail Anyone who believes that the art of cartooning is only for adolescents should absolutely take themselves to the local librarry or beg, borrow or steal a copy of Wil Eisner's A Contract with God, or The Building. Dark, rich, tragic stories about people living in New York - all told in comic books. Oh, yeah, and everyone else who hasn't read them either - they are just brilliant pieces of art/literature.