January 15, 2007
The UK
is 300 years old on 16 January. The signature of the Act of Union was commemorated at the time by the planting of some trees which still survive. Nothing much by way of celebration seems to have been planned this time round, apart from a commemorative £2 coin. The Union may not, in fact, survive much longer, as support for Scottish independence slowly grows.Gordon Brown has been trying to combat the drift towards separation, but a recent poll showed 52% of Scots in favour of independence. 59% of English voters were in favour.
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> The Union may not, in fact, survive much longer How would it be dismantled? A referendum throughout the UK seems to make the most sense, but then what about the Welsh and the Northern Irish?
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I think the UK government would try to confine any referendum to Scotland, on the grounds that only Scotland is really concerned about independence. That could be difficult to sustain - but it could also get complicated if every country gets to vote on the independence of every other country. Does Wales get to vote on Scottish independence but not Welsh independence? etc etc.
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In the past, incidentally, the Government has pretended that devolution to English regions is the counterpart of devolution to Scotland and Wales, thereby staving off demands for a referendum in England, English assembly, etc. But I don't think that strategy is viable any longer.
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> Does Wales get to vote on Scottish independence but not Welsh independence? This is where I see some difficulties. Ideally, all citizens of the union should be allowed to vote, shouldn't they?
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They shoulda grabbed France when they had the chance....
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I think we should go to war for Scotland's oil.
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Maybe it's time to start devolution talks here in the States, too. I, for one, would be more than ready to let the Red States go their separate way. If the British government makes any serious moves toward dissolving the union with Scotland, you can bet that the IRA will start bombing again in Northern Ireland until they get their way. Then the Welsh will have to get their dander up or they'll look like a bunch of knuckleheads.
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The Scots might first take a look at Slovak Republic's secession from the Czech Republic. Unemployment and inflation have risen sharply.
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I should point out here middleclasstool's role in the break up of czechoslovakia (see the testimonial).
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Wales is a very different situation, having been formally annexed to England. Is there a significant independence movement there? Similarly, Northern Ireland appears to have a pro-union majority. The 1707 Union was mainly driven (from the Scottish perspective) by financial need as a last-ditch effort to prevent total bankruptcy. I think an independent Scotland as an equal partner in the European Union would be quite viable.
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an equal partner in the European Union Now I am reminded of what Gough Whitlam said when someone suggested to him that New Zealand become a State of Australia: "That's just what we need - another fucking Tasmania". Notes: (1) This anecdote is possible apocryphal, and certainly deuterocanonical. (2) The commentator is not intending to disparage small nation states in general, nor New Zealand in particular, nor Tasmania.
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I think we should go to war for Scotland's oil. Does Halliburton have a shortbread-baking subsidiary?
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*looks around for cardboard shoes* *spreads democracy to pants*
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What about Cornwall?
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From University he went into politics, and became the United Kingdom's youngest Prime Minister at 23. But the next year he was divisible both by 2 and 3, and so became Britain's youngest Composite Minister. Oh, mercy.
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That testimonial was awesome.
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Have they started insisting that all signs be bilingual, having Scots Gaelic much larger and above any English?
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I think this is an appropriate thread, as, of course, Robbie Burns Day approacheth.
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which forces me to regurgitate this.
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Upon th' lone, wild moor one morn, Th' heather looked sae braw, As I went walkin' a' forlorn, The strangest sight I saw. I didnae ken what it could be, Some phantom, or some sprite - I'd like t' lay me doon an' dee, A' o'ercome wi' fright. Ah, 'twas th' ghost o' Robbie Burns, An' to me he did say, "Och, lassie, in me grave I turns, Each time ye write this way! Nae doot tha'art a clever lass, But Scots tha ne'er shall be. It makes me want to gag, alas, On yonder linden tree." An' then he gang awa', puir Rob, An' left me on th' moor. I hadnae done sae bad a job As a' o' tha', for sure! For a', 'twas but a bit o' fun, Me little Scottish verse, An' tho' 'tisnae sae gud as some, I'm sure there's more what's worse! Och, ghost o' Burns sae hyper-critical, Gi'n me a' your flak! I've ne'er known shade sae analytical; Cut me noo some slack!
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)15
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Aye, 'tis a right gud poom, lass. *fires up bagpipes*
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That's 18 kinds of brilliance, TUM. Yay for you.
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*fires up bagpipes* Aye, when ye've heard one pipe tune, ye've heard the both o' them.
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Aye, but if ye hear one indoors, ye'll be hearin' it the rest o' yeer life. *♫EEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE♫*
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*hears pipes, gets lump in throat*
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A BBC poll reaches different conclusions.
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That was grreat TUM
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Goetter, please don't tell me you're going to spit on the sidewalk!! Play a wee pibroach for me, Willie.
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*dons netting in anticipation of approaching bees* *swings pants overhead in appreciation of TUM's latest triumph*
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What I find a bit silly about Scotland is that their universities freely discriminate against the English (for example, in tuition), but they are forced to treat people from the rest of Europe like locals per EU rules. I mean wanting to be independent is one thing, but they're your neighbours and countrymen, for crying out loud!