January 04, 2007

• Wow, how tragic. Shit like this depresses me without fail. I used to get choked up reading reports in the paper of parents with guns in their houses for protection shooting their own kids by mistake, or vice versa, and this is in that category I think. Thanks a lot, Queso. <:(
• Boooo!
• Ditto.
• My initial reaction is that I can understand how this might be a natural reaction from a young child. At ten years of age, there's still a lot of room for the brain to absorb cause/effect relationships. When I was 10, I didn't understand that imitating Evel Knievel by leaping in my plastic motorcycle down a flight of steps to the basement would result in a mangled, bruised and scab-covered body... And then again, I recall seeing the news of Ted Bundy being put to death. It stirred something strange in me (think I tried to imagine myself in the chair - what the experience would feel like, the emotions, etc...). Needless to say, that's the point I can trace my origins of being against capital punishment. Sad.
• jesus, can we use this in the argument against capital punishment?
• Thinning the herd?
• jesus, can we use this in the argument against capital punishment? I'll allow it.
• You can, Medusa, but you're just going to get the red herring that it should never have been seen.
• Hi Jesus!
• I am not sure I know the argument I would not allow against capital punishment.
• Hey, Jesus! Whadja get for your birthday?
• And I, too, am wondering at "thinning the herd". Is that some crack at Texas?
• If there's a MoFi sock puppet named Jesus, and another one named Jesus Christ, I call dibs on Jesus Fucking Christ, and if that's taken, Jesus Fucking Christ In A Boat. That is all.
• my point in the title was that people are going to focus on the one (or now as it seems, two or possibly more) folks who will see this and be compelled to act, as opposed to the billions who know not to try this at home. Usually this kind of furor is directed at tv shows like Jackass, while real world events get a free pass.
• I figure the kid was probably just playing at it, not intending to perform the finale, and either slipped and fell or overestimated his ability to recover from "just a little" of the real thing. He probably, like many people are, was apalled and fascinated by what he'd seen/heard, and was possessed with that natural childish curiosity to know "what it's like." (Ever staple the end of you finger just to see how bad it hurt? No? Just me?) He tried it out, just meaning to get a feel for it, and couldn't get back. We could go further to blaming the parents for lack of supervision, society for its ills, etc., but my feeling is that this kind of stuff happens across the board, from low classes to high, from poor to rich, etc. etc. It's tragic, there's no reason for it, and it depresses me. If he'd been a drunk frat boy saying "Hey y'all! Lookit me, I'm Saddam!" and leaping off a table while roped to the chandelier, then the "thinning the herd" comment might be more apropos. But in this case, not so much. Sorry to be such a bummer. And not to bite your head off, Queso. Just a sore spot, I guess. I love cheese, really I do.
• It's undoubtedly a tragedy- that boy should not have died. What I am trying to get at is why did he die? Was it his fault for not knowing that what he was imitating would kill him? Or his parents for letting him see the imagery? Or the networks for showing images of Saddam's execution? Cartoons showing characters surviving all kinds of gruesome hangings? Iraq for executing Saddam? The US for allowing it? Saddam himself for commiting the crimes that caused the sentence? Was it capital punishment's fault? Or is it just possible that it was an example of Darwin's survival of the fittest? People want a simple answer and like to have boogeymen to lay the blame on. I'm just not so sure what the answer is and thought this story might provoke an interesting debate. I'm sorry if I upset anyone or came across as callous, I wasn't trying to belittle the tragedy of his death. It's just that it is in people's nature to imitate what they see, for better or for worse, with varying results...
• People want a...boogeyman to lay the blame on. pssst. hey, ya'll!! I've got a clue: it's the cheese! brought to you by the "Blame es el queso fund" /kidding!!!!
• I'm with Mr. Pettle ... I'm thinking kids are exempt from the Darwin Award thing, since they can't be expected to make the responsible judgements adults are supposed to be able to make. I would also like to voice my approval of cheese.
• I see what you mean, es el Queso. But to me the even deeper tragedy to this is that it's so meaningless, senseless, and (seemingly) unpreventable. People die in stupid ways all the time. Sometimes it's their own fault (I get as much enjoyment out of the Darwin Awards as the next guy) and sometimes it's just "one of those things." Parents who are otherwise exemplary run to answer the phone and when they come back their child has hit his head on the coffee table and is dead. Kids who are bright, thoughtful, and obedient leave their skates out and send their sisters tumbling down the stairs to their deaths. In this case, you could go to all those places you mention, but does anybody really think any one of those is the cause? A cause? That there is a cause? We want to assign meaning to our lives and to everything that happens in them; it helps our personal narratives make sense. But then stuff like this happens, and nothing makes sense. I guess that's what depresses me. That, and the fact that I've got two kids I can't watch every waking moment of the day. It's scary.
• jesus, can we use this in the argument against capital punishment? I don't think so. Although I don't support capital punishment, this seems to be the case of irresponsible media broadcasting or media viewing. If capital punishment was not disseminated to an individual, would the individual imitate it? I think there are better arguments for capital punishment, and this one is a bit of a non-sequitur. You may as well say that this is an argument against teaching knot-tying.
• Oh, and Queso--if you'd posed those questions in your FPP instead of waiting till a few comments down the line, I'm thinking there'd have been less outrage. ;)
• Well, on the one part that's true -- kids don't make the responsible judgements that adults do. However, speaking from experience, plenty of kids do make responsible judgements, in that they know it's a risky activity, they calculate the risk, and do it knowing that risk. And then finding out that they calculated wrong. (This is just nitpickery, but that's what I do.) I support Mr. Pettle's position, and also voice my appreciation for cheese in all its forms.
• Responding to koko, way upthread...
• thanks guys, i don't take disagreement with my opinions as cheese-hatred, but it is always nice to have your affections voiced. i love y'all too :) i will admit to the possibility of having been a little glib with my original post; perhaps a little fleshing out might have kept the hackle-raising to a minimum...
• ... this seems to be the case of irresponsible media broadcasting or media viewing. I understand that this is a simple minded POV. But so is using imitation deaths as an argument vs capital punishment. I reeks of Micheal Moore BO.
• I don't think any blame can justifiably be placed, although the uncle probably should not have let his 10-year-old nephew watch a hanging. It's just a tragic thing that happened. It is certainly not the fault of cheese of any variety.
• This is the third report of such deaths I have seen this weekend. The first was a 9 year-old in Paklstan, then 15 year old girl from Iraq, and now this one. Idiot profiteering news channels, that's what I say. And idiotic parents for allowing the kids to see it.
• The ones in Pakistan and Iraq seem to be cut from a different cloth than the Texan one, methinks.
• Except the Iraqi one was in India. But expound your reasoning, TenaciousPettle. I feel my hackles rising as I type.
• The Indian one, also posted in an earlier comment by RalphTheDog, quotes the girl's parents as saying that she had threatened suicide for political reasons--thus, her hanging was an intentional act--albeit still a tragic one. The Pakistani one I admit I hadn't read before posting, and mistakenly assumed was similar. It's not, though, I see now, and is more like the Texan one in its accidentalness. For that, I apologize.
• > is it just possible that it was an example of Darwin's survival of the fittest? I think it was just terribly bad luck, to be honest. I found the combination of "Today's Darwin Report" + "Thinning the Herd" disturbingly callous when I discovered what the story was.
• C'mon! Where are the people saying that this is Saddam curse against the west and it's collaborators. Please!
• I found the combination of "Today's Darwin Report" + "Thinning the Herd" disturbingly callous when I discovered what the story was. Not to mention stupid. The amount of people who do stupid things and live is significantly greater than those who die from stupid things. Heuristics is a long, hard road with a lot of dead-end off-ramps but even more truck run-offs.
• Ah, crap. Crap, crap, crap, crap, crap. Yeah, my peers and I did some pretty dangerous stuff as kids, not really able to grasp the possible consequences. I still have a scar on my face from the day in the fourth grade we said, "Hey! Let's be like Arnold Palmer with these bent aluminum pipes that kinda look like golf clubs!" And our parents, who did the same sort of stupid things at that age, undoubtedly never saw it coming. Crap. I guess the argument could be made that the uncle could have used the kid's questions as a springboard to discuss mortality more deeply. But I don't know if it would have occured to ME to do that in his place. It's just sad, sad crappiness all around.
• It may have nothing to do, as evidenced by the kid's reaction to the hanging, with Saddam's death. It is fairly well documented that a portion of "suicides" are actually people experimenting in auto-erotic asphyxation. Usually, the police and medical invesigators don't press the issue. The family is already dealing with the tragic loss of a relative, there's no need to add shame to the mix. A usual tip-off is pornographic material in the immediate area, but in certain cases, there is none. This is most likely not the case in this instance, as the boy was a mere 10 years old, and probably knows nothing of auto-erotic asphyxation, but I didn't actually read the article until I typed the above paragraph, and frankly, am far too lazy not to post something I briefly edited (i.e. probably caught one out of eleven spelling/grammar errors.) With Jesus' permission, of course. Otherwise, please delete this post. :)
• I feel I should add that although the kid was ten, I must admit the first time I wanked the monkey I was 7 or 8. A friend of mine (same age), who now that I'm an adult sincerely suspect was being molested at that time, introduced me to the "thrilling" world of the penis rubbing, and the enjoyment it brings. I remember being terrified and brought to tears the first time I ejaculated at twelve. I really thought I had broken it, and that I was leaking some important fluid I needed.
• Sadly, not everyone will survive thoughtless, careless, or ill-advised acts in youth (or in adulthood, for that matter). But these experimental acts are necessary for our development as human beings. The world is not risk-free and never will be, and to artificially pad kids beyond a reasonable point is to hamper their development (not only does it stunt their ability to cope with the unknown or unexpected, it inhibits their curiosity and their understanding of cause-and-effect). Do it to enough kids, and there is a clearly observable impact on society. Today, very few children pay the ultimate price as they interact with the world. In the past, probably more did than did not--and we are the descendants of those who didn't.
• I think it's interesting this made the headlines, when apparently very few if any of the widely-broadcast beheadings prompted such a response among Iraqi youth. In other words, how many Iraqi youth been inspired to try decapitating themselves? Is it the novelty of this way of killing someone?
• "They showed them putting the noose around his neck and everything. Why show that on TV?" How else are we supposed to sate our blood lust?
• Or how many Iraqi youth shoot themselves? It doesn't seem there's much a shortage of guns in that benighted land.
• KO-KO: Yes. There is no help for it, I shall have to execute somebody at once. The only question is, who shall it be? POOH-BAH: Well, it seems unkind to say so, but as you're already under sentence of death for flirting, everything seems to point to you. KO-KO: To me? What are you talking about? I can't execute myself. POOH-BAH: Why not? KO-KO: Why not? Because, in the first place, self decapitation is an extremely difficult, not to say dangerous, thing to attempt; and, in the second, it's suicide, and suicide is a capital offence. POOH-BAH: That is so, no doubt. PISH-TUSH: We might reserve that point. POOH-BAH: True, it could be argued six months hence, before the full Court. KO-KO: Besides, I don't see how a man can cut off his own head. POOH-BAH: A man might try. PISH-TUSH: Even if you only succeeded in cutting it half off, that would be something. POOH-BAH: It would be taken as an earnest of your desire to comply with the Imperial will. KO-KO: No. Pardon me, but there I am adamant. As official Headsman, my reputation is at stake, and I can't consent to embark on a professional operation unless I see my way to a successful result.
• What's the most popular method of suicide in Iraq? Waiting.
• Crossing the road?
• Speaking to the FPP, and not the title, I have to agree that this is one of those situations where nobody is to blame and horrible things happen. It's natural to want to direct our anger as such a senseless loss somewhere, but I really can't see where. But, damn.
• *spit-takes pig's blood*