December 02, 2006

• Who is the moron who wrote this? Prager? What a cretin. If Ellison takes an oath on a tome he doesn't believe in, then the oath is invalid!
• "American Civilisation?" Oh, ox-y-moron how we love theeeee .. in the laaaaaaand of the freeeeeeeee!
• What's this about sweaing on the Bible again? Matthew 5:33-37:

  [33]"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago, 'Do not break your oath, but keep the oaths you have made to the Lord.' [34]But I tell you, Do not swear at all: either by heaven, for it is God's throne; [35]or by the earth, for it is his footstool; or by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. [36]And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. [37]Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one.

  Basically, if you're not a Christian, you should not swear on the Bible because you don't believe it to be holy, and if you are a Christian, you should still not swear on the Bible because the Bible says so. Ergo, the Bible has no business being a part of swearing in ceremonies.
• I can't believe this guy is serious! What is the point of swearing on a book that you don't believe in???
• Damn straight. What fuyugare says. Right on.
• Is it me, or are these guys really starting to look desperate?
• The real comedy is that no Bible (nor any other holy book) is used in the swearing-in ceremony.
• I want to swear on a big bowl of spaghetti
• At Oxford University, in the ceremony where you get your D Phil (PhD, basically) they hit you on the head with a Bible. In these enlightened times you can ask to be hit with a Quran or a Torah instead, I think.
• This is the stupidest thing I've seen in a while (and there is SO much competition for that title!). This idiot is doing exactly what he is (falsely) accusing the politician of doing--substituting his personal values for the *true* underlying values of America, i.e., those found in the Constitution (have them swear on THAT rather than some tome of supernaturalist claptrap). Where, exactly, does "freedom of religion" fit into this guy's worldview? He's no more a true American than Stalin was. There should be some sort of legal consequence for this level of stupidity. Oath-swearing is an archaic joke, in any case. It may have had some meaning in a time when a sense of honor was widespread. Today, it's just ridiculous. Rather than oaths, we need signed contracts so that we can prosecute people when they violate them. How many people in Washington have violated their oaths to uphold and defend the Constitution over the past six years? And there's no accountability whatsoever. It's play-acting, nothing more. Anyone who favors the reality-based community should forswear the swearing of meaningless and unenforceable oaths.
• I thought that article was satire. Are you sure it's not satire? When he wrote this: First, it is an act of hubris that perfectly exemplifies multiculturalist activism -- my culture trumps America's culture. I said to my self "Oh he's making a joke!" Nobody is this stupid.
• Anyone who favors the reality-based community should forswear the swearing of meaningless and unenforceable oaths. So they should swear they won't swear to anything any more?
• When all elected officials take their oaths of office with their hands on the very same book, they all affirm that some unifying value system underlies American civilization. That book, to be honest, should be some free-enterprise tome. The unifying value system is money.
• It's funny that so many of these foaming morons claim to believe in the constitution, yet it's apparent they've never read the thing.
• I nominate Argh for any office he choose as our first Pastafarian public official!
• >>So they should swear they won't swear to anything any more? Exactly! ;)
• Does it really matter, they all break their oaths anyway.
• "imagine a racist elected to Congress. Would they allow him to choose Hitler's "Mein Kampf," the Nazis' bible, for his oath?" I think the worrisome part of this quote is _Imagine a racist elected to Congress_. Prager sees that as imaginable. And drivingmenuts is right, so this whole article is based on a lie. It's just hateful.
• As far as I understand it, members of Congress are sworn in en masse to uphold the Constitution of the U.S. An individual can hold a bible, a torah, a koran, a disestablishmentarianism for dummies, nothing at all, or whatever the fuck they want. There is no requirement to take an oath on any book. If he's really making an issue out of this (and I've read conflicting reports), this guy Ellison is being an attention whore. This parasite Prager is both being played by Ellison and playing his own bullshit clash of civilizations/religions game. Sometimes I feel that these people deserve the inevitable bloody outcome of their stupidity.
• rushmc - Oath-swearing is an archaic joke, in any case. Very much agree with this, it seems to be a quasi-magical survival. In a court of law, I'd just go for an explicit warning on the penalties for lying and leave it at that.
• playing his own bullshit clash of civilizations/religions game. I was talking to my friend about this issue. I don't know much about the Nation of Islam in the US, but he does. I had told him once that I felt The N of I was a bastardization of Islam, and he confirmed this fact, but did not go into details. The N of I always struck me as a bastard child of Islam, like Jews for Jesus is to Judaism. I wouldn't conflate this to the clash of civilizations that some would try to make it out to be. The N of I seems to affiliate itself with a race issue, where Islam by itself is pretty racially independent. You may be right though, he is probably being a media whore. Unless he had just mentioned to the ceremony organizers that he was going to use the Koran, and then it gets leaked to a bullshit media frenzy.
• To clarify, I think it's Prager who's looking for the clash of civilizations. Ellison's just looking for attention/approval, like all politicians. However, the latter plays directly to the former.
• I wonder what they would say if he agreed to swear on a Bible -- only one that was translated into Arabic? I'm sure then suddenly it would be an issue of "American only speak English!" or some other crap. I'm left handed. I wonder if I wanted to raise my left hand to sear on a Bible that he would argue America is right handed?
• I missed this post earlier: imagine a racist elected to Congress. Would they allow him to choose Hitler's "Mein Kampf," the Nazis' bible, for his oath?" I think the worrisome part of this quote is _Imagine a racist elected to Congress_. Prager sees that as imaginable. I don't think that he sees it possible that a racist would get elected, but that he sees someone who is Islamic getting elected the same as a racist getting elected.
• I think oath swearing is part of the ritual which focuses people on the important elements of the place they're going. You'd have to take it seriously when you swore, but it should give one something to reflect on when serving. I've found that I place more importance on rituals as I get older. The Constitution of the US says: "The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the members of the several state legislatures, and all executive and judicial officers, both of the United States and of the several states, shall be bound by oath or affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States." So Prager is grandstanding.
• Well, swearing on it isn't as bad as tapdancing on the Koran.
• "When radio host Jerry Klein suggested that all Muslims in the United States should be identified with a crescent-shape tattoo or a distinctive arm band, the phone lines jammed instantly..."
• There's a whole lotta stuff going on that scares me. *hopes there are handrails on the slippery slope to the hole this country is heading for
• [37]Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one. I'd just like that to be said again
• Klein was being satiric. He later went on to castigate in no uncertain terms those of his listeners who had agreed with the idea.
• >>I'm left handed. I wonder if I wanted to raise my left hand to sear on a Bible that he would argue America is right handed? It's sad cuz it's true.
• ...tapdancing on the Koran. Do you have a Youtube of this?
• A legally binding contractual obligation to tell the truth would probably be more effective than an oath but I doubt that many politicians would sign such a contract.
• Or they would argue about relative truth and personal truth and so forth. Never underestimate the ease with which a human mind can muddy the waters.
• According to the first sentence of the penultimate paragraph of this USA Today article, Prager doesn't believe in the Christian Bible either. It begins "Prager, who is Jewish..." So what's his point, really? If there's any book any elected or appointed American should be sworn in on, it's the Constitution. They should pass a Reading Comprehension test on it too.
• And yet, were I to club him to death - and in the act of brutally bludgeoning him with a cartoonishly oversized bat he spewed a frothly mixture of blood, snot, and entrails onto my otherwise immaculate shoes - it would be ME who went to jail. Bizarre legal system we have when you can’t hunt morans with a bat without getting dirty. Huh. Whether he’s really this stupid or is such a miscreant he chooses to make his money this way, he should not be allowed to breed. I mean, if we can’t cull the herd, let’s at least control the population here.
• Monkeyfilter: the stupidest thing I've seen in a while (and there is SO much competition for that title!) Monkeyfilter: There's a whole lotta stuff going on that scares me. Monkeyfilter: if we can't cull the herd, let's at least control the population here
• The first Muslim elected to the U.S. Congress, attacked for planning to use the Koran at his swearing-in instead of a Bible, will use a copy of the Muslim holy book once owned by Thomas Jefferson Shazam!
• Kickity. Ol' TJ, poppin' wigs in 2007 even.