November 21, 2006

• always hated him, thought he sucked, hope this kills his career. you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. he's a racist prick and his slide into obscurity awaits. i don't think his apology will be any more believable than mel's.
• It is quite a sad clip. I've always been a fan of Seinfeld, and so, by extension, the Kramer character. Watching the clip, i want to think that perhaps it was taken out of context and he was in the middle of some George Carlin-esque rant about "bad" words when it happened, but I kind of doubt that. More interesting to me was the discussion over on digg where it quickly devolved into "black people say it all the time, so why can't white people?" as if the context Michael Richards said it was just off handed as the punchline out some joke or something and not directed at someone out of anger.
• Ugly.
• I woke up & with interest noted the news, read the digg discussion (christ there are some idiots over there), read a few forum posts elsewhere, watched the clip, & I can't help feeling the guy is on meth or coke. He just loses it. He gets wound up & just explodes, then deflates & drifts off stage. Wow. There is something chemical at work here as well as deep problems. I've worked with comedians, including one guy who has a 40+ year career in WA & who used to work with Andy Stewart, so a pretty experienced guy. Got to see him work with hecklers every night. Man, that is *not* how you do it. But Michael Richards is an actor, not a stand-up. He's obviously unsuited to it. And, now, he'll probably never be doing it again. This is a career killer. I'm interested to see a clip of him on Letterman the other nite, being contrite, because by the sounds of it he was looking & sounding pretty bad. I think he's maybe on speed or coke, so would like to see that interview to check it out, but definitely having a breakdown. The guy has a lot of performing experience, he even worked with Kaufman on 'Fridays' way back. This seems very abnormal.
• That sounds like a pretty good assessment, Chyren. When professionals lose it badly, it's a sign of something terribly wrong underneath.
• The guy has a lot of performing experience, he even worked with Kaufman on 'Fridays' way back. Is it possible that this is all a Kaufman-esque joke?? I mean, the idea of Kramer just losin it and goin Racist Sam Kinnison ape shit is pretty funny to me... I mean, what if at the end, he goes.... "ahhhhhh, gotcha!!!" Bigger punchline than The Aristocrats! *cough*
• So, he wasn't acting in Seinfeld? That's his real wacko, obnoxious self?
• I can't help feeling the guy is on meth or coke That was my thought, too. Shit, even Gibson didn't let fly with his barely contained anti-Semitism until he was drunk. You don't just fly off like that unless something's up, and you sure as hell don't keep running with it that long unless something's really, really wrong.
• Yeah, it's like one of those jags you might get on uppers where you go on a rant thinking that you are really on a roll, then get to the end & realise you got nothing. His deflated ending seems to support that. If you are on coke or speed you might think "Hey I got a great line to come up with after this!" & then the reaction hits, & you realise you are nowhere. So I've heard.
• the ensuing discussion is bound to get contentious Is there a contraversy here? Is somebody going to say "You know, he was totally in the right. Those niggers were interrupting him, and deserved to be yelled at"? It's hard to believe anyone would attempt to defend this outburst.
• It's just sad to see someone go off like this. I have done my fare share of illegal substances and never once have I gone off on such racially charged tirade. coke or meth use in no way excuses his actions. It is still cool to watch UHF, right?
• Serenity now.
• Michael Richards' appearance on Letterman via satellite, on Jerry Seinfeld's segment. Google Video, 6min 50sec. He appears genuinely upset by it.
• Heavens, this reminds me of Bill Hicks going off on one that time in Chicago - I'd post the link, but I'm at work and it's on YouTube. But this isn't as offensive as that fucking slap bass incidental music between every line on Seinfeld.
• Is there a contraversy here? Is somebody going to say "You know, he was totally in the right. Those niggers were interrupting him, and deserved to be yelled at"? It's hard to believe anyone would attempt to defend this outburst. Umm, sadly, yes. Check out the comments on the myriad sites hosting the many versions of the video clip, where some douchebags are saying exactly what you said, almost word for word. Over on the blue, the conversation degenerated to how the black patrons who got attacked were just as racist by calling him a "cracker" in retaliation, and an old standby is on his hobby horse again saying how nobody has the right to condemn him because, in fact, we're all racists.
• "yeah? well, the n****r store called, and they're running out of YOU!" (...would've been the perfect comeback!) thanks, i'll be here all week... try the watermelon!
• His racist languages is disturbing, mostly because he uses it just without thinking. I understand his getting angry at the rude man in the audience, and could imagine myself getting angry in such a situation, but his immediate reaction was to attack the man's race, which does say something about his basic perceptions of other people. He didn't see a rude person, he saw a rude black person. But what was most disturbing was the melt-down aspect of it. I don't know if he could have turned it into a joke (something along the lines of putting on a school marm character and playing as if they were bad boys in the back row - "Do you want to share your conversation with the rest of the class, mmm?" - might have saved the situation in the first place), but he should have just dropped it. But you could see him losing it on stage, and the audience leave him, and he just keeps digging himself in deeper - he is suposedly a professional, but seemed to have lost all of those skills.
• Is there a contraversy here? Is somebody going to say "You know, he was totally in the right. Those niggers were interrupting him, and deserved to be yelled at"? It's hard to believe anyone would attempt to defend this outburst. Um, probably not, but maybe you should check out Yahoo's Message Boards.
• "and an old standby is on his hobby horse again saying how nobody has the right to condemn him because, in fact, we're all racists." Yeah, the idiot jonmc, wasn't it, who keeps saying "don't act like you've never had these thoughts." Almost wanted to pony up the 5 bucks just to post the fact that, no, in fact I for one have never had those thoughts and have never said anything like that. What a douche! Like he can read everyone's minds. But everyone reading his lame arguments can read his. Racists always think they are normal. And the resulting self-implosion is an example of regular incestuous thread breakdowns on MeFi. Drama in every post, get it here, folks. "But you could see him losing it on stage, and the audience leave him, and he just keeps digging himself in deeper" The point of no return seems to be when he says "this shocks you.. this shocks you." I think he wanted, or could have, gone into a diatribe about how this is something repressed in all of us, etc, but really, at that point it would have been difficult to sustain with any kind of decent routine, unless very carefully worked out, & he extemporises, rather than scripts his material. Lenny Bruce could have done it, but not Richards. Plus, it's just bullshit. It's at that point I think he groks the audience reaction, & he comes down fast & realises he's in deep shit, because the audience has turned against him. Once that realisation hits, any vibe he has going is completely deflated, & he's left huffing for air like a guy sucker-punched in the gut. When the dude yells out (something like) "no movies, no tv series.." Richards says "Oh yeah, I'm all washed up.." sarcastically, but he has nothing to follow it. He's left impotently watching people stand up & leave. He's left powerless, he's lost his audience. It's amazing to me that a professional with his experience could lose control of his audience like that, but it all happens so quickly. I guess the moral of the story is, never, ever go there unless you have a tightly rehearsed routine to go with it, backed up with decent material. Richards is not that sort of comic, & bizarrely, can't seem to handle a heckler. Every single comic worth his salt comes thru that gauntlet, if he wants a career to last more than 3 weeks. Something tells me the weak chink in his armour is the taunt that he's not funny outside of the Kramer character, because this was (apparently) the taunt that set him off prior to the sequence in the candid video. Maybe he's having a breakdown after his failed tv show & nothing to follow the impact of Seinfeld. sorry for long post
• Amen, Muteboy. Now Bill Hicks knew how to handle some freakin' hecklers! Hitler had the right idea! He was just an underachiever! Kill them all!! (NSFW)
• I'm waiting for Borat to comment.
• /gobsmacked
• A few years ago at the Banana (yay!) Cabaret in Balham, one of the comedians was Scott Capurro, and he basically died on his arse, and left. The crowd there isn't famous for being difficult, he just totally lost all sympathy. I can't figure out what happened, the other comedians did fine. It's a weird experience watching it.
• In the Letterman interview he claimed he was doing what Chyren said -- trying to go "out there" and be ultra offensive to, I don't know, bring the audience back in. Then he realized that he had failed. *Most* comedians can't go the route that Bruce and Hicks, or Chappelle went. (Just look at Carlos Mencia, though this could be a personal preference thing, but he seems kind of hacky to me.) I can't understand trying to go there if you don't have the chops for it. Then again, this could be an excuse and Richards has just unleashed a heretofore unknown vein of racism he already had.
• Also, was that Letterman interview one of the most uncomfortable things you have ever seen in your life or what? The audience kept laughing, but it was that kind of uncomfortable chuckling you do when you find yourself unexpectedly caught in a drastically strange social situation. Weird.
• It won't hurt his flagging career at all. In fact, the publicity and subsequent public penitence will endear him with his audience. After his outburst has been forgotten, his condemnation of "crap" such as racist hate speech will be remembered and he will become a leader in the crusade to stamp out those "racists" and their foul language. With luck, he will ghostwrite a book on his search for the real hate speakers and will earn beaucoup bucks.
• I still can't get past the idea that this is all an act. I remember seeing a clip where Tom Green was visiting a small comedy club in the Bahamas, I think. After some prodding, they finally convinced him to get up on stage, where he proceeded to make a nonsensical screeching noise into the mic. It was a silly, annoying, funny noise, so the crowd laughed and applauded. Then he kept it up for another 2 minutes, then 5, then 15 minutes -- waaaay beyond where it was funny, to the point that the crowd was either yelling at him to STFU or simply walking out. The angry club manager finally dragged him off the stage and told him never to come back. It was hilarious, to me, and I don't like Tom Green. But it was obviously an intentional comedic "death", serving a grander joke. I get the same meta-humor sort of vibe here -- the idea of good ole luvable, goofy Kramer GOING OFF in an angry, hateful racial tirade and crashing in a pile of has-been wash-up is, well, fucking hilarious to me. Only an anti-semitic Gary Coleman would be funnier. Maybe it's not an act, maybe it's unintentional, but this is comedy gold.
• Maybe it's not an act, maybe it's unintentional, but this is comedy gold. Umm... Vive la difference? Somehow I'm not quite finding the knee-slapping humor. I'm all for edgy comedy but this ain't it.
• Also, was that Letterman interview one of the most uncomfortable things you have ever seen in your life or what? Yeah it was. Agonizing. I like that he didn't blame booze or drugs or mental illness, just said he had 'personal work' to do around it.
• Hoochie mama! Richards is certainly weird enough to try a Kaufmanesque stunt, but to me this seems like he got ruffled by a heckler and tried to respond by being over-the-top shocking (hence him saying "this shocks you", almost as if to say, "stay with me on this one"), but then quickly realized he'd made a huge mistake. He's not Lenny Bruce, Richard Pryor or Sarah Silverman, who can pull off such material because it's carefully crafted and artfully presented. He's also not a seasoned stand-up performer, so he's out of his element. I wouldn't automatically conclude he's a racist, but just an inexperienced comic who got ruffled, went for a shock gag, and failed miserably. I would say his career is probably over. I haven't seen him do anything outside of Seinfeld that was particularly noteworthy, so I can't see him being able to recover from this.
• side track -- Just look at Carlos Mencia, though this could be a personal preference thing, but he seems kind of hacky to me. Carlos Mencia is a hack. George Lopez says he stole a bunch of his material. Even Mr. Fear Factor Joe Rogan claims he steal material and is a hack. If the host of Fear Factor thinks you are a hack, you know you got problems!
• If the host of Fear Factor thinks you are a hack, you know you got problems! That is very, very true.
• Steve Martin could teach him a thing or three about dealing with hecklers... my favorite from the archives is when some yahoo yells out from the audience and Martin, without skipping a beat says, "Yeah, I remember my first beer..." and went back to work.
• Speaking of comedians will spotty pasts dealing with hecklers, did anyone else see the Paula Poundstone special on Bravo? I love the way she handled the "What kind of question is that???" guy in the audience.
• Here is Richards'Mea Culpa.
• Scratch that!
• "Also, was that Letterman interview one of the most uncomfortable things you have ever seen in your life or what? The audience kept laughing....." Well, if you are talking about the Letterman audience, I imagine they are not from the area. As in, the audience is made up mainly of tourists who were traveling that day, the day before and possibly the day before that. So unless they were staying plugged in constantly (which, why would you on vacation), how in the world would you even know what the hell was going on when you see this apology by Richards. I mean you see Seinfield, you see Krammer, it is the Letterman show....you think it has to be an act. I guess when they get home they will realize just what the hell he was apologizing for. And as for "awkward" (in a high pitched voice), imagine the guest that had to go on after that. I would not want to be that person.
• apology here for now He seems sincere. Man, this is just surreal...
• About five seconds after I read this, my boss walked in the door and said, "Hey, did you ever watch that Seinfeld show?"
• Just watched the apology. I believe he is sincere. But he's right in that he has some serious "personal work" to do.
• Just watched the apology on Letterman. That is a man in pain. He should be in pain; glad to see he has a conscience.
• I was thinking the Bruce/Hicks/Pryor thing, as well. Chyren put it best, "It's just bullshit." And for the Kaufmanesque: There's no such thing as bad publicity?
• It's totally different from the Hicks thing, IMO. Hicks is angry and arrogant, but never reveals himself to be unforgiveably racist or anything even close. And he never gets lost in his rage, he remains in control of the rhetoric flying around the room.
• Well, all I saw was an out of context bite that makes Richards look like a racist and a public apology. And Hicks does get lost in his rage. But whatev, I'm not going to waste anymore time there.
• No context would have made his rant any more acceptable.
• Not even if the context was, "And now here is an example of the kind of rabid racist shit I would never say..."? ;) And yes, the Hicks thing is different. I just mentioned it cos it's a stand-up going off on one.
• I'm waiting for Borat to comment. Ha! "In my country Kazakhstan, we do not have racism with the black, because we are all equal. Skin color is not problem. We work together, one people, for fighting the Jew." Seriously, other comedians are going to have a field day with this. I wish Dave Chappelle was still on the air...
• Maybe I had issue with the term "unforgivably racist." Whatever, I couldn't give a shit about a politician or a race car driver or whatever this guy is. Still not caring that much, but just barely enough to post.
• As in: "unforgivably racist" implies its own bigotry.
• Bigotry against racists? I think I could consider myself that kind of bigot.
• Um, no. Somone who can't forgive a person who apologizes for their racist words is bigoted. A person who says racist words is a racist, just as people who hold liberal ideas are liberals, everything's pretty cut and dry.
• And no I'm not defending him, except to the point where he deserves forgiveness. Like anyone else.
• Gah, I hate you Nickdanger - unforgivably - for involving me in this further.
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• InsolentChimp: Where do you stand on the Brittney/K-Fed controversy?
• Everyone makes mistakes. Everyone is allowed to fall off the wagon, at least once. But when you get into Rush Limbaugh/George Bush/Dick Cheney territory, well, unleash the fucking hounds. Richards apologised, looks genuinely broken up, so give him a break, I say. I see a lot of people (elsewhere) are not inclined to do that. I guess that is personal opinion. Something in what he said in the Letterman segment implies that he's said such things before, but perhaps that was just an unfortunate phrasing of what he was trying to convey.
• Almost every religious tome contains some version of the Christian thought "let he who is without sin cast the first stone" or words to that effect. Whatever your politics, race, or religion (or lack thereof) this phrase seems to sum up a decent way to thwack hypocrites back into reality. If you are more comfortable with Clint Eastwood than you are with Jesus (and who would blame you?) you can think instead of "The Unforgiven" when the kid says "he had it comin'", and Clint says "Kid, we've all got it comin'." The dumbo fucked up, for whatever reason, chemical or otherwise. In the harsh light of a new day, he saw he had made a mistake and apologized. Let's move on. Were it you, you'd wish we would.
• What he did isn't unforgivable, in the exact sense that people have been saying, but he doesn't deserve a free pass, either. He needs to do the "personal work" that he himself identified, and all his future words and actions need to be scrutinized. The point is, yes, everybody makes mistakes, but George Allen et al's "mistake" was that they let slip their true feelings in public, not that they flubbed a word or accidentally offended someone. True colors != mistake.
• Why is the Use of the "R" Word Not Considered Racist?
• The word in Navajo for white people literally translates to "people you can kill."
• I haven't seen the term "redskin" applied to Native Americans in a very long time - well, except for the Washington team. Professional and scholastic teams have been renamed and new mascots found because of this issue over the last 20 years or so. But isn't "Indian" considered a misnomer, if not a slur? Giago uses it consistently after his entry with "Native Americans." Seems as though both sides are guilty of bad taste.
• See.
• "Indian" may be a misnomer but I don't think it's necessarily a slur. Native people of my acquaintance have used "Indian" and "Native" interchangeably although "native" seems more prevalent. The term "Native American" is, of course, never used in Canada and one seldom hears "Native Canadian". The terms "First Nations" or "aboriginal" people are more commonly used in the media. If you know it, using a native person's tribal or band affiliation seems to be the most respectful.

• "I abhor the term Native American. It is a generic government term used to describe all the indigenous prisoners of the United States. These are the American Samoans, the Micronesians, the Aleuts, the original Hawaiians, and the erroneously termed Eskimos, who are actually Upiks and Inupiats. And, of course, the American Indian. "I prefer the term American Indian because I know its origins . . . As an added distinction the American Indian is the only ethnic group in the United States with the American before our ethnicity . . . We were enslaved as American Indians, we were colonized as American Indians, and we will gain our freedom as American Indians, and then we will call ourselves any damn thing we choose."

  -Russell Means
• Carlos Mencia is a hack. George Lopez says he stole a bunch of his material. Even Mr. Fear Factor Joe Rogan claims he steal material and is a hack. Joe Rogan VS Carlos Mencia onstage
• Good on Rogan for outing him. But Mencia's so crappy that I don't know that I'd run around talking about how he steals my jokes.
• The funniest thing about this whole mess is that the YouTube video was pulled for copyright infringement at the bequest of "Carlos." Here's an old piece about the elusive and somewhat hard to define joke theives