November 12, 2006
The Prajna Paramita Hrydaya Sutra
One of the shortest, simplest and yet most profound of the Buddhist Sutras. I know several Buddhists who claim that chanting this Sutra has helped them in tangible ways.
(Wiki). For those interested, a line-by-line commentary. The Chinese version with pinyin (I'm trying to memorise this), and the Japanese version. More Buddhist Sutras.
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In tangible ways? I might be misunderstanding, but it seems to be emphatically about the intangible.
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Yes, that's the irony perhaps. But many free publications of the sutra are prefaced by examples of how chanting the sutra, or invoking the name of Avalokiteśvara (Guanyin in Chinese) has saved them from disaster, disease and calamity. My friend's mom was just telling me yesterday how she walked in the rain once, years ago, without getting a drop on her at all, praying as she went. Her health was bad at that point, and getting rained on would have worsened her condition.
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From the Wikipedia article on prayer: In certain Buddhist sects, prayer accompanies meditation. Buddhism for the most part sees prayer as a secondary, supportive practice to meditation and scriptural study. Gautama Buddha claimed that human beings possess the capacity and potential to be liberated, or enlightened, through contemplation, leading to insight. Prayer is seen mainly as a powerful psycho-physical practice that can enhance meditation. * In the earliest Buddhist tradition, the Theravada, and in the later Mahayana tradition of Zen (or Chán), prayer plays only an ancillary role. It is largely a ritual expression of wishes for success in the practice and in helping all beings. However it can also be a way of expressing respect and appreciation to the individual person of the Buddha, who is said to still exist though in a higher dimension. * The Mahayana tradition of Tibetan Buddhism emphasises an instructive and devotional relationship to a guru; this may involve devotional practices similar to prayer. It also posits the existence of various deities. But how practitioners relate to them will depend upon the 'level' at which they are practicing. At one level, one may pray to a deity for protection or assistance, taking a more subordinate role. At another level, one may invoke the deity, on a more equal footing. And at a higher level one may deliberately cultivate the idea that one has 'become' the deity, whilst remaining aware that its ultimate nature is shunyata. * Pure Land Buddhism emphasises the recitation of prayer-like mantras by devotees. On one level it is said that reciting these mantras can ensure rebirth into a spiritual 'pure land' after death, where one may work further towards one's enlightenment with greater ease. On another, the practice is a form of meditation aimed at achieving realisation. But beyond all these practices the Buddha emphasised the primacy of individual practice and experience. He said that supplication to gods or deities was not necessary. Nevertheless, today many lay people in East Asian countries pray to the Buddha in ways that resemble Western prayer - asking for intervention and offering devotion.
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I'm interested in chanting from the neurological view - what happens to the brain when someone chants. Also how does melody or rhythmn affect the impact of chants? I've heard chants that were entrancing melodically but sadly i don't remember details.
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Chanting as prayer is like admiring the boat that just left and is sailing to that place I'd really like to go to.
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Wow, mixing the Chinese in with pinyin character by character is a huge hit to readability. I'm not familiar with the whole thing, but I caught the part 无无明以无无明尽 ("No ignorance and Also No Ending of Ignorance") somewhere a few years ago and remembered it. There's something really fascinating about that sentence to me, as much in the grammar as in the meaning.
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Lovely. And not lovely, if you know what I mean.
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My friend's mom was just telling me yesterday how she walked in the rain once, years ago, without getting a drop on her at all, praying as she went. Reminds me of a comic book I read as a kid of 3 Chinese brothers who separated when the youngest was just a little boy. Each went his own way to learn to master one of nature's elements. When they reunited many years later, the oldest could control water, the second (who turned out to be evil) air and the last, fire. The one who controlled water could walk in rain without getting wet. Wish I could find this again--would bring back great memories. Did you believe her, Alnedra? Not snarking, just wondering how you interpreted what she'd said.
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Sounds like a lateral thinking puzzle. "She walks in the rain, yet no drops land on her."
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Hmm... I don't know, sly. I know faith can move mountains (metaphorically), and I've read of how Tibetan monks could dry soaking wet cloths draped over their bodies just by meditating - this in the middle of high-altitude, icy cold climate conditions, mind. By personal experience, I know that chanting/praying helps with pain and distress.
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One of them Tibetans once asked me what all the fascination with flying was. All those years of meditation learning to fly when airline travel really isn't that expensive. What is this sutra about again?
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I'm no good at meditating, but Buddhist chanting has always attracted me. I'm almost afraid to try it, however, because I think I might get lost in it. (That may be because of a J. D. Salinger story in the collection "Frannie and Zooey." Frannie gets stuck on the "Jesus Prayer" in a well meaning, but destructive way.) Maybe not good for addictive personalities?
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Chanting is just a form of concentration practice with faith (what makes the chant like prayer) adding spice. Maybe not good for addictive personalities? No problem. Isn't there some Kung Fu or some such that uses a weakness to kick some ass? I just think that looking for magic isn't what its about. So I produce this flame from my palm, so what? So I walk between raindrops. So what?
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Not looking for magic - it's the intense focus that I've felt when listening to chants, not even knowing what the words meant. Maybe if I understood the words I'd b free of the form?
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Nah! The focus has no truck with meaning. Strikes me there is something else going on that an internet thing won't solve. Go with the focus and see where it takes you and find someone in RL to help.
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I thinks that StoryBored is on to something with the neurological effects of chanting in particular and music in general. (not to detract from the spiritual aspects of chanting)
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and I've read of how Tibetan monks could dry soaking wet cloths draped over their bodies just by meditating Tum-mo.
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Perhaps we can look at it from this perspective, on why some people seek to achieve near-supernatural results based on faith in a religion that preaches about the impermanence and illusory nature of the physical world: Knowledge that Form and Void are the same, that all the senses are illusory, that ignorance and non-ignorance is the same etc.... This implies that the physical laws we labour under are likewise illusory, and are not as absolute as we might think. Hence, acts which seem physically impossible, are possible. I've sort of lost the thread of where I was going, but I feel the idea of exerting control over your body to the extent that outside elements are unable to affect you as much as they do normal people is not going against the philosophies of Buddhism.
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Sounds very Matrix-y. "Whoa! I know Kung-fu!" I know next to nothing about Buddhism, which is why I appreciated this link so much, but as a healthy skeptic, I think there's a fine line between reaching the heights of spirituality to a level most of us will never attain in our lifetimes, and pure Hollywood/Mr. Miyagi/Orientalist mumbo-jumbo (as perpetuated mostly by the West). That said, I too believe in the power of faith (in a non-organized-religion way), and think that there's more to the physical world than meets the eye. Thanks for a fascinating discussion!
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What I've read of the Chinese and Tibetan Buddhist traditions tends not to deny the possibility of gaining supernatural powers or benefits from practice, but rather it emphasises that to do so would be to entirely miss the point. There's the great story about Bankei. quoted in Zen Flesh, Zen Bones: Insight into impermanence is to be sought because it has been found to be useful in addressing the ills attendant on the human condition, which is the whole purpose of the Buddha-dharma.
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sounds like you might dig an Auhm, path. :) from the Wiki: The Heart Sutra is a member of the Perfection of Wisdom (Prajñāpāramitā) class of Mahāyāna Buddhist literature, and along with the Diamond Sutra, is considered to be the primary representative of the genre. . . . A striking feature of the sutra is the fact that the teaching is not actually delivered by the Buddha, which places it in a relatively small class of sutras not directly spoken by the Buddha. Hmm. I'm curious how it got to be a prime represenative of the genre if it's unique because Buddha didn't speak it directly. I'm sure the answer is somewhere on those pesky Internets but the Wiki page alone was hefty enough to sort through. Nice FPP Neddy! And one for for fun: MonkeyFilter: it has been found to be useful in addressing the ills attendant on the human condition
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Why the Heart Sutra is primary: In brief, because the heart of Mayahana Buddhism is the human heart ... And the wisdom of the heart is compassion, petes.
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Ah I see. So Buddha probably spoke quite a bit about it (the heart & compassion), just not this specific Sutra - as opposed to others?
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Judge for yourself:
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Very good one, bees. There is an old Zen saying, that if you meet your father, kill your father; if you meet Buddha, kill Buddha. Why? Because to acknowledge them is to acknowledge your bonds with them, and one should not be bound to anything or anyone. The Buddha you can see is always a false Buddha. One of my favourite sayings by Buddha was that his teachings were like a man pointing to the moon; he is talking about the moon, but everyone looks at his finger.
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This is my simple religion. There is no need for temples, no need for complicated philosophy. Our own brain, our heart is the temple; the philosophy is kindness. -- His Holiness the 14th Dalai Lama
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Banananomaly!
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May all beings be at ease
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