October 11, 2006

• Will you still need me? Will you still feed me, when I'm 64?
• *squints, feels for trap door button*
• Wouldn't give a nickel for that guy's chances to make it to 64 if he is released, given the climate of violence now evident in the US. I'm toying with the notion that the assassination of any artist should be automatic grounds for making the assassin live with only the work of the assassinated artist for the rest of his/her life. In this guy's case he would have to listen to Lennon - including Lennon plus Yoko as well as the Beatlesque. Aye, aye, I'm havin' a mean day, but I very strongly object to the murder of artists.
• I strongly object to the celebritization of murderers. This dickwad has stated in interviews that he killed Lennon in order to be famous. We should deny him that by never using his name again. Please refer to him as "the guy who killed John Lennon" or any other moniker other than his real name.
• Ye will observe that I did.
• I hope the motherfucker stays inside for the rest of his life. I remember the day. I will always remember that day. I heard it on the radio that morning... Lennon may not have been a perfect man, but he did not deserve such an end. There is no hell, & all is folly, but I admit I find it difficult to forgive & release Chapman. That whole scene was a kick in the guts. That was the beginning of a downer I aint out of yet. Miss him. Miss him. Miss him.
• "the guy who killed John Lennon" No, "that dickwad" sounds much better.
• Good point rocket, so noted.
• well I gotta gun and my gun keeps ridin' me I got a lot of hate building inside me I'll go to the post office go to the school pull the trigger on every damn fool when ye see me comin' better run for cover for when I go courtin death is my lover
• Plenty of people who would want to hurt him if he got out.
• He's been in pert near 25 year now. I suppose he wasn't declared insane, making parole possible, but I wonder if 25 years is time enough to make up for such a heinous crime. Is one life more valuable than another?
• That was my thought, petebest. Why should he be treated differently to someone who murdered a non-celebrity, for similar reasons? Or, why shouldn't someone who murdered an ordinary person be imprisoned for just as long? Heh, maybe the justice system is doing him a favour keeping him in, knowing that he's toast when he gets out.
• Wouldn't that just be doubly ironic for a Lennon fan to kill for some twisted loyalistic reason. Ugh, no winners in this one. Fortunately The Beatles and John himself acheived a modicum of popularity during their time, so that the music is at least available to scholars, the very tenacious, and holiday shoppers.
• beeswacky: I submit to you that forcing anyone to listen to Yoko Ono is a violation of every Human Right's convention on the planet. And someone who listens voluntarily should be committed. John rocks. Yoko hoovers. Also, maybe Bjork, but not as much.
• So the CIA monitors this guy who they hate and fear, they watch him for years, and all of a sudden a lone crazy dude with a blank stare shoots him. Just saying.
• Anyone seen the "US vs. John Lennon" movie yet?
• driving me nuts, I understand a great many folk don't care for Yoko Ono's musical performances, but perhaps they have no relish for the absurd -- find when I hear her I usually end up laughing. Not because it is that or weep, but because I think she's genuinely funny. But then my favorite Beatles song (Rocky Raccoon) always makes me laugh, too. Dunno about the CIA, Settle, which (at least in theory back in those days were not empowered to work inside the US) but the FBI certainly monitored Lennon.
• I submit to you that forcing anyone to listen to Yoko Ono is a violation of every Human Right's convention on the planet. Yes, that's a proven fact. Also, maybe Bjork, but not as much. Hey, HEY, watch it dmn... Sure, she has more than her share of, ah, perplexing vocal performances, but still, the good outweighs the bad.
• I love Björk.
• *shudders*
• Hey! You got your Björk in my John thread!
• "Is one life more valuable than another?" Yes. If a Louis Pasteur or an Aristotle is killed, it is more of a loss to humanity as a whole than if, say, I am killed, or that bloke from down the post office. Horrible, but true. IMHO, poets & artists, thinkers in general are higher up the value scale than the ordinary hume, but we can't make laws work on that basis because it would be functionally inoperable, & ethically wrong, of course. Thinkers - poets, artists, inventors - these are the movers of human society. They are a super important part of the evolutionary momentum of the race, so IMHO, they have more 'value' intrinsically than Fred Bloggs the shit sweeper, or Joe Blow the soldier. We should not actually give them more value in any actual way, for the obvious reasons, but then again, we do, don't we?
• We do, yes we do. But philosophically isn't that fallacious in that we don't know what someone's future self will be "worth" to humanity or the planet in general? Or, we value one more than another but what if that bloke from down the post office turns out to be the one guy who can save us all or deliver our mail? Or is it just a simple fact of life that one person's loss is more impactful than another's?
• Well, on your first point, yes, that's true. But philosophically, the future is not real. You could argue that the value of a person is their actual real-time activity, rather than potential; the stuff they are doing in the present. Then again, you could counter that by saying, ok, this guy's already invented the cure for cancer, so we can shoot him, now. Then we get into a very complicated discussion. Once you get down to it, you can't tell what someone is potentially capable of. Chaos theory, all that. This is why I say you can't operate on the principle that some lives are more valuable than others. It's one reason among many, anyway. But on a very gross, basic level, John Lennon is worth more than post office guy. Emergency medical technician is worth more than post office guy, but less than heart surgeon man. Heart surgeon man is worth more than the guy out of Lost who used to be a Hobbit. But John Lennon is worth more than heart surgeon man. I think. This probably exposes the folly of this line of thought. /ponders. I suppose John Lennon is more valuable, evolutionarily, than these other examples because his message can communicate beyond one generation, beyond just one lifetime. On your final point, yeah, that's true too, but it doesn't invalidate the fact that Einstein is more valuable to humanity than Paris Hilton. I think.
• How would anyone set about determining let alone quantifying the worth of Shakespeare or Keats or Li Po to humanity? Can't see where any practical application is possible (thank goodness!). And I suspect there'd be horrid and possibly disastrous consequences if politicians ever got to administering such a scheme.
• Say what you will about Yoko's screeching vocal style, but her avant garde compositions were a damn sight more inventive than any of the pap the Beatles put out. I liked The Beatles, but it was pap. There's a good reason John fell in love with her.
• If a heart surgeon is more valuable to me specifically more than Paris Hilton (and really, how could that be) then how can a penitentiary system be developed to account for that? With regard to dickwad's case, is 25 years enough (obviously not to the parole board) or 30? 100? maybe 45? What is the measure of punishment for the murder of this very valuable - by many accounts - person? If one-person-is-more-valuable-than-another is taken as a given, how should this dickwad be punished? This news story makes me wonder. philosophically, the future is not real Aargh! Careful with the pure light of reason, I was almost contented there for a second.
• I liked The Beatles, but it was pap. Some of it, some of it. But some of it was the clarion call of the cosmos itself. Often expressed through a Gretsch, of all things. Yoko broke no molds because she opted out of them, but The Beatles redefined a lot in the midst of their Papapalooza. Plus, also that Epiphone Casino through a full-tilt Princeton? (Or so I like to imagine) Fuuu-huhhhhck.
• Avant garde and inventive does not equal good.
• Truer words, r88. I was in a band once that was incredibly "avant garde" and "inventive". We were yelled at a lot to STFU. And probably rightfully so. Good times, good times. RIP, The Fumigators. Your likes will not pass this way again.
• What'd you play, Cap'n? Instrument-wise that is.
• Nor does it necessarily equal bad. Ha HAH!!! Check. mate.
• What'd you play, Cap'n? Instrument-wise that is. Instruments? We didn't need no steenking instruments. We were impromptu acappella, baby. Our biggest hit was "Waiting for the Ice Cream", sung in the middle of the rez caf, which prompted yelling for us to STFU, before being pelted with food, which started the food fight, which started disciplinary actions. Come to think of it, there was an instrument involved at another of our shows, where we tapped this wooden spoon against a concrete railing, playing with the echo coming back from the main building. It was a fantastic effect together with our "harmonics", but, again, more calls to STFU. So we played nothing but fools. Now I'm teaching myself how to play the banjo instead. Much harder than I anticipated. Now back to your previously scheduled broadcast, already in progress.
• So, what do you think John Lennon would want done with the guy?
• Making value judegements on peoples lives without having all the knowledge of the consequences of those lives (i.e. omnipotence) is a shallow and fruitless dip in the pool. It resonates with eugenics. I don't know if Paris Hilton gives to any charities, but if she said that she did, wouldn't she be easier to devalue? Ah, perception, you foil! But regardless, the limitations of living such ephemeral and subjective lives makes us create important and valuable bonds in small numbers. To me, my family and friends are more valuable than any number of "thinkers," whether aesthetic or pragmatic, dead or alive. For the sake of these hypotheticals, if my girlfriend and Lennon were both in the imminent danger of being run down by a semi and I could save one of them - you may say I'm a dreamer - but I'd imagine my girlfriend wouldn't be visiting the hospital. Everyone has someone more valuable then Lennon, but Lennon has the masses, giving him that immortality that Milan Kundera was talking about. It's as close to a quantifiable as is possible, I suppose. But putting people on the scales is still a pointless and shallow exercise. Maybe I should gone it simpler: how can you price the priceless?
• So, what do you think John Lennon would want done with the guy? Reminds me of the Jay Leno story about Sirhan Sirhan. So Sirhan Sirhan goes in front of the parole board and testifies that he believes that Bobby Kennedy would want him paroled. Imagine that, of all the bad luck! The one guy that wants to parole this guy, and Sirhan Sirhan had to go and kill him!
• "It resonates with eugenics." People, I did go to some effort to make it plain I don't believe we should ever make laws upon or enact these kinds of ideas in any way, didn't I? Now I'm going to be labelled a Self Godwin.
• Chy, for the Godwin!
• John Lennon - John Sinclair http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vZzgxdccX5k
• Chy = Hitler.
• I remember when Lennon died. I was doing homework, listening to the radio, and the deejay played the Buzzcocks, "Orgasm Addict," after he said Lennon was dead. It seemed a shame. Didn't mean a thing to me, but it still seemed a shame. He had children, right? How old was he?
• 40.
• Wow he'd have been 66 in a couple of months.
• What if he had lived, found religion in his later years, and become a die-hard Bush supporter?
• Ha ha ha ha! I don't think so.
• Lennon's death was one of my first memories. I was four, and my parents generally let me stay up late if I was quiet and didn't whine. Since I liked to watch Johnny Carson (or Saturday Night Live), I made every effort to be quiet. All I remember about the night was my parents freaking out and crying, which scared me. It's probably why I remember it -- I don't remember when Pres. Reagan was shot the same year. Also, I'm not a fan of Ono's music, but I do enjoy her art. Lennon said it was her art that made him love her first, and I can totally buy into that.
• I remember when Paul McCartney died - the end of an era. Say what you like about Paul, but he was a good friend of Lennon's for many years, and I think you can really judge a guy by the quality of his friends. Plus, Paul wrote some great songs. It's a pity that he was also murdered, and what a way to go - attacked by four guys with chainsaws - it's horrific, actually. That's why I'll always remember Paul for oh hang on he's not dead - I'm just daydreaming again. Still, we'll get you one day McCartney, you smarmy fuck.
• John's dead, George's dead, Paul is dead :) , that leaves Ringo as the sole survivor. Yeah, as always, the carefree, goofy guys are the ones that live longer.
• Yeah, I remember when Ringo was beaten to death with a baseball bat. "Tragic", or whatever.
• I thought Ringo died two years ago...or was that Yasser Arafat? I never could tell which was which.
• When I worked at an art museum, I got to open a few invitations to Ono's shows. They were always very cool and clever - one was printed on pink translucent plastic.
• I liked what she did for John's exhibit at the Rock n Roll Hall of Fame, having a direct phone line set up from the Dakota to the hall, and she'd ring it up every so often and chat with a museum-goer about John, answering whatever questions they might have. Nice.
• And in other news, "I am not a number, I am a free man brand name!
• Be Seeing You®
• I heard McCartney was attacked by a one-legged woman. Just a rumour, mind.
• No no no. Ringo died when he was changing a flat tire and the hubcap flew off and sliced open his neck. Or he was beaten by a gang of inbred homo-haters. Can't remember which.
• You are so Queer
• All so, Queer
• QueerTM
• When it comes to assassination attempts, Bjork has more in common with John than with Yoko.
• http://bedazzled.blogs.com/bedazzled/2006/10/repost_yoko_ono.html Yoko Ono "Cut Piece" 1965