October 01, 2006

Froomkin on Woodward on Bush. I have been tempted to share Dan Froomkin's White House Briefing column as an FPP for a long while, but let it go, as I figured, well, what the hey, the Monkeys probably read him anyway.

But with Bob Woodward's sudden and unexpected uprising from his usual spot as white house doormat, it seemed like a good time to spread the word. So, we are not hearing the truth about Iraq? Woah! Who would'a thought that!

posted by RalphTheDog 18 years ago
  • Ralph, you're such a skeptic. Everything's roses and peachy keen.
  • Peachy Keen, A-OK. Mission Accomplished Yep, everythings just wonderfuckingful
  • Why do you hate America?
  • Why does America hate America?
  • Golly, where to begin?
  • I find it interesting that Booby has decided to turn around and bite the hand that feeds him, but suspect it is because he finally realises that everything is going sour for the Bush Administration & he doesn't want to be remembered as a brown-noser to a failure, so he's found his vaunted journalistic objectivity. Perhaps it was down the back of the couch. Booby's credibility, however, is not really very high, anymore. All he has is the Watergate thing to pin his name to. His work in the past decade has made him seem less like a gumshoe & more like a bit of a partisan hack, happy to be with the in-crowd. What is valuable as political ammunition, though, is the fact that he was celebrated by the Bush crowd for his accuracy in his former books on Chimpy & Co. This means that if he is 'swiftboated' now by the Bush lackeys, the opposition can turn around & quote their praise & support of him from just a short while ago. This delightful situation is extremely funny & is Maximal Wonk Pr0n. We shall watch with a grin whatever happens from this. Very good timing.
  • It was good timing and it was deliberately done. I had been losing a measure of respect for Woodward as well since it seemed that he was trying to be on the cool kids' team with the last two books. BUT after reading them, I think Woodward wrote those showing the admin with a polished sheen KNOWING that he was going to be sandblasting that sheen away in this one. He didn't say anything WRONG in the first two, just concentrated on the positive stuff to make them let down their guard and let him in further so that he could find out the really juicy stuff for THIS one. Measure of respect restored.
  • I agree, I forgot to add that I suspected he was setting this up, but I had little to base that hunch upon. From the excerpts I have read of the latest, he seems very much to be back in form. The last book by Woodward I bought was his piece on Belushi, 'Wired', which was very incisive. If his accuity is back to that level, I may well buy the new one. Except, perhaps, that it will make my blood boil.
  • You jackin' it?
  • Absolutely!
  • Tired of that old corporate slogan? Try a new one! Nike You jackin it?
  • This just in: my balls are on Bob Woodward's head! Yeah! I report for MonkeyFilter!
  • homunculus: tea-baggin' for the truth
  • "Apparently it doesn't matter that almost two-thirds of Americans oppose the war in Iraq. That only a quarter of this country thinks we're winning the war in Iraq. And that most Americans think the situation in Iraq has degenerated into a civil war, 65 percent, as long as Barney supports him." I love you . . . you love me . . .
  • Okay Boys, Wheel Out Condi! SHANNON, Ireland -- Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice rejected as "incomprehensible" the suggestion in Bob Woodward's latest book that she ignored CIA warnings of a terror strike two months before Sept. 11, 2001. . . . "The idea that I would have ignored that I find incomprehensible," Rice said. "I am quite certain that it was not a meeting in which I was told that there was an impending attack and refused to respond." Dude, she's totally telling the truth. I swear. Absolutely this is not a lie. Really.
  • Time magazine article, August 2002:
    In mid-July [2001], Tenet sat down for a special meeting with Rice and aides. "George briefed Condi that there was going to be a major attack," says an official; another, who was present at the meeting, says Tenet broke out a huge wall chart ("They always have wall charts") with dozens of threats. Tenet couldn't rule out a domestic attack but thought it more likely that al-Qaeda would strike overseas.
  • incomprehensible She keeps using that word. I do not think it means what she thinks it means.
  • She means "I cannot understand how anyone would think I would ignore these warnings had I indeed received them". You have to talk like the in crowd do if you want to get anywhere with this mob, logical thought development expressed with clarity marks you a pariah.
  • ) to kirkaracha for a nice catch!
  • Denny Hastert's gonna have to fuckin' resign, I think.
  • Denny Hastert's gonna have to fuckin' resign, I think. Why? This is clearly the pages' fault. They're trying to undermine the American government during a time of war. We should delcare them all enemy combatants, revoke their habeas corpus rights, and send them to Gitmo.
  • A ridiculous right-wing radio person (or one of them) complained this morning that he was "angry at the Republicans for acting like Democrats" Re: Foley. Resign? Ha ha, no. Perhaps he'll enjoy a lovely roast child sandwich for lunch, but never resign.
  • Give it a week. If this stuff keeps on, he'll be forced to, lest it poison the elections.
  • But a true Rovian would say, ousting Hastert would be an overt admission of guilt that would have more impact. Best stay the course, maybe raise the terror level or something. Have Condi Rice deny something. That kinda maneuver.
  • Hastert ignores call to resign amid Foley fallout Maf54 (7:55:02 PM): completely naked? Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:12 PM): well ya Maf54 (7:55:21 PM): very nice Xxxxxxxxx (7:55:24 PM): lol Maf54 (7:55:51 PM): cute butt bouncing in the air
  • Best stay the course, maybe raise the terror level or something. Have Condi Rice deny something. That kinda maneuver. Or maybe something a bit bigger.
  • Yeah but this November is like halftime - if you go into halftime down, you'll likely win the game (2008). I think they really don't care that much about losing the House because they still run everything if nothing gets done and they're set to rile up the gay marriage haters for the POTUS election 2008.
  • Or maybe something a bit bigger. Dun dun duuunnn...
  • Please note that by saying that he talked with the Speaker about Foley, Boehner is reversing course and going back to his original position.
  • In another stunning development, Robert Novak today reveals in his column - published in PostOpinion on Page 31 - that even after House GOP leaders knew that Foley had written an inappropriate e-mail to a 16-year-old former male page, they were still urging him to seek re-election. Novak writes, "A member of the House leadership told me that Foley, under continuous political pressure because of his sexual orientation, was considering not seeking a seventh term this year but that Rep. Tom Reynolds, chairman of the National Republican Congressional Committee (NRCC), talked him into running." (nypost) Will Reynolds go down too? He was probably going to lose re-election before the foley story broke, so I guess the question is will he resign before he loses?
  • NRCC Uses Small Children As Human Shields I saw this on CrooksAndLiars and just couldn't believe the asinine audacity of it. Pretty disgusting. Had I been the reporter, I'd have taken a deep breath, said "oooooookay, then..." and gone on with my questions.
  • Nonsense. No message can break through the feelings of disgust that man-boy love evokes in people, especially parents. Covering for a child molester negates any hollow charge they can try to pin on the Dems. "Dems want to expose these people to your children (you know, like we've been doing with Foley)." It just doesn't work. What Foley and the gang did is unforgivable, and this story is unspinnable.
  • this story is unspinnable. I would love to agree, but I don't. The fundamental fact of spin is that it is not only in addition to, but often without any relationship to reality. * The Democrats planned it * Foley is a Democrat * Love the sinner, hate the sin (Democrats love sin) * Hastert/RNCC didn't know (or knew, but not much) * And many, many more! They've used all these, they're working on more and as . . umm . . some . . German guy . . once proved, a lie works when you say it over and over. Go Republican leadership! Wallow in your filth! Wallow!!
  • Nuh. Not this time. Hastert will be gone, the only question is will it be tomorrow or sometime next week.
  • They did it again. Completely rhetorical, but; Fox has no shame, do they?
  • Here's what I think. Republican spin has worked so well these past few years, even in the face of Afganistan, Iraq, gas prices, the economy and everything else because of cognitive dissonance. People believe what they want to believe, and they wanted to believe in the GOP for a variety of reasons. Some want their morals enacted as law, some want lower taxes, some want protection from the terrorists, etc, and these people all believe that they can get these things from the GOP. When something goes wrong for the GOP, spin is easy because all the politicians have to do is give a plausible excuse, let the various networks amplify it, and cognitive dissonance takes over from there. It doesn't have to be a good excuse, because people want to believe it. It's useless to try to show that any particular bit of spin is irrelevant or a lie, because you won't get through. You need to shatter that general "GOP is good" belief that all the other judgements are based on. It takes something big to shatter that. Katrina did it for some people. Allowing Foley to prey on people's children is something that will hit every parent at an instinctive gut level that goes beyond cognition. Many people will be unable to deny it or ignore it and continue to believe in the GOP. Republican congressmen take money from Abramoff and in exchange vote a certain way, and someone reads about it in the papers and decides if it's ok, if it's a big deal or not. Even with Iraq, there's thinking involved (mostly because people haven't seen photos of soldiers' coffins and other things that would trigger a gut-level response). This is different- you don't reflect on the pros and cons of molesting children. Either you're like most people and your whole body knows it's horribly wrong, or you're like Hastert and you don't care. There simply is no excuse or justification that can move someone from the first group into the second.
  • I agree that it's a cognitive dissonance situation, but not sure of the "fix" as such. I was interested to read in the Bill Clinton autobiography of his early days campaigning for this or that candidate and his recollection of a time when you could make the case for one position or another based on facts. He notes that "these days" or "since [such and such political event]" that's not really possible. People don't pay much attention to facts, or at least they doesn't influence politics as much as they once may have.
  • Insider info: I'm unloading all of my gold futures, as it's now possible to spin shit into gold.
  • Hastert will be gone, the only question is will it be tomorrow or sometime next week. Hastert says he won't fold his tent "The resignation came as key conservative House members voiced support for Hastert but questioned how he handled the Foley matter." Hastert should have been gone, but it's too late now. Now if he goes, it'll be even more of a hullabaloo. I didn't think Hastert would resign, or be forced to resign, because doing so would be taking responsibility for knowing what Foley was up to for years and overlooking it to get his PAC money. And we all know, Republicans just don't take responsibility for their actions. Ahhh! G'wan you know it! You know it's true! Go on get outta here ya disgruntled tie-wearers!
  • Haha! Damn I shoulda read the whole thing . . "I've talked to our members," Hastert told The Chicago Tribune in an interview Wednesday night. "Our members are supportive. I think that [resignation] is exactly what our opponents would like to have happen -- that I'd fold my tent and others would fold our tent and they would sweep the House." "When the base finds out who's feeding this monster, they're not going to be happy," Hastert told the Tribune. "The people who want to see this thing blow up are ABC News and a lot of Democratic operatives, people funded by [liberal activist] George Soros." (Watch the GOP defend Speaker Hastert -- 2:54) Note how CNN helpfully adds the fnords "liberal activist" for them - they don't even have to help the spin! George Soros! It's a . . he's a monster! It's teh ghey! Imminent . . smoking mushroom cloud! 9/11! "When the base finds out . . " HA! Shit. I wish I knew an Arabic term for "the base" . . hmmm . . dang what would it be?
  • Hastert sorry but not quitting House Speaker Dennis Hastert said Thursday he was "sorry" about the scandal surrounding ex-Florida congressman Mark Foley's contacts with teenage pages but said he would not resign. (It's the same link, but CNN is flogging it mercilessly with "BREAKING NEWS" as the banner over the pic of a harried Hastert in front of 50 microphones) Also, this just in, President Bush doesn't give a shit what you think.
  • Its a means to an end. Republicans fuck kids -> Dems get majorities in congress and senate -> investigations into dictatorial tendencies of current "president" ensue -> king removed from office. Why break out the pitchforks and torches for this a month before the election? As for using the Foley scandal as a campaign tool instead of the signing statements- more Americans care about their children more than their constitution. I can't really fault anyone for that, although I personally find the 2 scandals to be equally repulsive.
  • "He's ticked off big-time," said a well-informed source, "even if what they said was the truth." . . . "He's remarkably optimistic," a Bush insider said. "Like Ronald Reagan, he has a gift for looking beyond the morass in front of him and sticking to his goals, even if it's not popular." Or, y'know, very smart. Pretty much sums it up, dunnit? Reminds me of Porkins. Good ol' blowed-up Porkins.
  • He's optimistic because he thinks of Diebold.
  • What is it with Republicans and Machiavelli?
  • "Like Ronald Reagan, he has a gift for looking beyond the morass in front of him and sticking to his goals, even if it's not popular." In other words, "Like Ronald Reagan, he has an amazing talent for burying his head in the sand and refusing to listen to any kind of logic or evidence."
  • when he keeps it simple stupid then trees cause pollution and ketchup is a vegetable in the sweet buy and buy they bought it they did not know they cannot tell the actor from his role nor the liar from his lie
  • Well, I appear to have been wrong, as I usually am with my political predictions, about Hastert resigning, but in all fairness it is better for the Dems if he stays in, thus the Opus Gay cover-up in the Repubs will influence the midterms more effectively, unless this crashed plane in NY makes all the Yanks go back to shivering & hiding under the covers like the NeoCons want. I would have thought that he would be forced to resign by other members of the party, but Hastert is a stubborn old bastard.
  • *collects $1 from Chy* I think the core of it is admitting responsibility which the Depublicans are simply not ever, ever going to do. This Iraq asshole has sucked them all in way too far to ever get out. They know they're locked in with ShrubCo and scandals mean nothing. Agreed on the plane thing, that kinda fear is picture-perfect for electing Republicans. Way better than teh ghey. Opus Gay cover-up First heard that on The Daily Show last night - that's fabulous coinage there. Nice work. Can someone explain the Anti-gay gay Republicans? is it simple self-loathing? Or something more sinister.
  • Yeah, I picked up 'Opus Gay' from the Daily Show. Finger on the pulse of culture, me. Anti-gay republicans? 'Conservative' old-time values. Gay is "wrong" & "unnatural" & also a "threat to society", because, apparently, if we accept gay people then pretty soon everyone will be turned gay, & then civilization will grind to a halt, or something. Plus the Bible says it's wrong. Same as many Republicans are fucking racists. They were saying the same things in 1901 about interracial marriage as they are saying about gay marriage now. A lot of these assholes think the blacks should be "kept down"; that a lot of problems in society come from the civil rights movement of the '60s & insane shit like that. As for all the apparently perverted & closet gay Republicans, I suspect there's a certain amount of self hatred there, as well as good old-fashioned hypocrisy. I assume people like Foley aren't actually anti-gay, but take that stance because it's a way to get votes from those who are. There's a conspiracy theory out there concerning a big ring of pedophile Republicans, which involves the Bushes, Gannon-Guckert, Johnny Gosch, child slavery & various "evil people" wherein the pedophilia becomes a way of manipulating people. I don't believe it, but then again their mendacity in other things sometimes makes me wonder. Lest I am misinterpreted by some, let me note that Foley isn't a pedophile, he appears to be an Ephebophile, which is quite a bit less repugnant, though no less hypocritical in light of his former position in the child protection caucus or whatever it was.
  • Maybe Foley doesn't see himself as gay. That he's perfectly straight, and that this is just dicking around, as it were.
  • aren't actually anti-gay, but take that stance because it's a way to get votes from those who are. Ah that's it. Simple. Black. Classic. (Didn't mean the coinage parte Re: you Chy, just that it was a clever bit from TDS, and the crowd let out a whoop too. I myself will be using it regularly at every orifice. Opportunity. At every opportunity.)
  • Yes, I knew you meant that.