August 07, 2006

• Oh damn. Single people end up talking to themselves on the street; couples tear each other apart.. Yes, "finding man not lonely enough, god created woman..."
• Although I never fucking told her that anyway. She's was always saying "No, I've got something to tell you, I've got something to tell you" and I knew what it was anyway so what was the point in calling her? There wasn't one. So I didn't. Anyway what the fuck is that? Is that ice-cream? Jesus the shit you can buy these days. It's like the whole world just switched over to full-time shit production. Like the human race is the colon and anus of reality. Where's the fucking bus? Christ, I'm gonna be late. I hate waiting for the fucking bus anyway ah fuck I'm outta cigarettes.
• *gives quidnunc his meds*
• I think you can certainly see those trends at work here in China HW. A byproduct of urbanisation and modernisation. I was aware of Mr Putnam's work, but only as a reference, so interesting to see it here. I like his points about social capital if I understand them right. Takes on a different context here where freedom of association is largely absent in the US sense, but you see the impact on patterns of family life and changes in other forms of popular association like the clan system in parts of the countryside. I do a lot of translation of academic work about China's emerging civil society, and de Tocqueville is referred to often. I'm not a massive fan of the 'China is special and different' line, but the notion of the civic does seem to be very different from the Chinese historical experience. You get a feeling that one effect of the globalisation of the commercial modern will be a converegence of contexts. Writing paragraphs like the above is also a reason while I shall die alone.
• Writing paragraphs like the above is also a reason while I shall die alone. Lol! Och, no monkey dies alone. Not as long as there's a posting on the Middle East to be made at any rate.
• Couldn't help but comment on that Loner quiz. One of the questions is "Would you consider driving across the country by yourself?" I'm living in frickin' Canada. Driving across the country would take two centuries. (Plus a canoe to get to Newfoundland).
• HawthorneWingo, that link to moneyjane's FPP reminds me of how much I miss her voice here. Reading the article, it seems that what the researchers measured (in the first study at least) was loneliness rather than aloneness. If you're a happy loner, I think you're OK.
• I'm living in frickin' Canada. Driving across the country would take two centuries. (Plus a canoe to get to Newfoundland). Nonsense. If you plan your route ahead of time and keep rest-stops to a minimum you can easily cross Canada in less than fifty years. /End threadjack - off to bowl alone
• If you're a happy loner, I think you're OK. Agreed. Perhaps a better title would be "High Levels of General Anxiety Can Screw Up Your Health."
• Us loners gotta stick together.
• Driving across Canada? Oh Boy! ROAD TRIP!!!! Who's with me on this? Anybody? echo
• all else aside, I think there is a societal prejudice against people who prefer to be alone. It is always assumed that a loner must be unhappy with that situation, when in fact it may be their idea of paradise.
• > there is a societal prejudice against people who prefer to be alone well, yes. just as any collective/cohesive entity spurns those that won't/don't want to be a part.
• Maybe some of us don't WANT to be alone, you fucking happy-clappy people with your wonderful fucking relationships and your beautful fucking friends and your OH YEAH WELL FUCK YOU TOO BUDDY.
• I don't understand the happy-clappy people. If they have a social disease they should be sad and stay at home.
• well you see Quid we're only happy alone because we know we don't have to be....we take our happiness for granted because we have it. Its only the sad girlfriendless corpsebuggered people in the world who crave the company they can never have...
• feels bad about being so cruel to the 'nunc, who is hot, but apparently some sort of pathetic asshole
• Does anyone remember that thread about the article that talked about how primates were easy prey for sabertooth tigers and junk, and so they had to form societal groups on account of they needed to protect each other? I've searched for it, but I guess I don;t remember enough keywords an' stuff.
• I think that the ussues of "loner" and "civic disengagement" are two separate issues. I can remember when I was growing up that people did socialize with their neighbors, but I think that the rise of housing developments after WWII took the "neighbor" out of neighborhood, to a degree. The flood of folks with varying interests and agendas did change the community feeling of earlier times when the reality was that the house next to you might sell, but it was usually to someone raised in the town. This happened early in California, but there were still local groups who shared interests, but didn't live in the same neighborhoods, which would meet often and plan events to get people together. My family belong to a "saddle club" which had us trailering up the horses and driving somewhere for a parade, or rodeo, or campout at least once a month. Festivities were rife. Then, tv came along, and the need for face to face socializing started to wain. Civic disengagement, fer sure. We went from a time when members were involved in the community to a time when just occasionally getting together with friends was what we sought. There are still bastions of civic engagement - I think that middleclasstool's 48 hour film festival is an example. But, that's surely not the same as "loner."
• The fragmentization of society hurts us on all levels, not the least of which is in the political arena. That very dense article had some heavy truth, especially regarding the individualization of entertainment and the rising blind reliance on the State. Social networks are tattering and folks have fewer and fewer places to simply meet and be with other like-minded souls. I recently heard a hairdresser describe a gorgeous young female client who, when her hair was being washed, burst into tears. "That's the first time I've been touched in six months, by anybody," she wept. Too many lonely people. *hesitantly emerges from cave to offer quidnunc a hug*
• it's true kinnakeet, there are a lot of eternal 'forces' that seem to be creating isolation, reinforcing 'individualization'. I think there are pockets of people who are aware of this and seeking to create community where it no longer organically thrives (ie, extended families, traditionally neighborhoods in which generations of the same families share). as society becomes increasingly mobile and transitory it is incumbent on individuals to find opportunities to create 'extended families' for themselves, or face the increasing isolation of 21st century life. (or, like, make a lotta online friends and live throught their computers!)
• Interesting, Medusa, that here we are sharing thoughts on isolation through our computers. One wonders where we're headed... a world of people who communicate only through electronics, if at all? A frightening thought when one considers that so much of true communication is non-verbal. To rely upon the world of online friends is scary, when one considers how deception is facilitated by its anonymity, and how easily language without benefit of vocal expression can be misconstrued. E-friendships often hang by the slenderest of threads which can suddenly and inexplicably snap at any time--not a good basis for any kind of reliable social network. I think I was born in the wrong century...
• I took that loner test. Apparently I've achieved a state of harmony between independence and human bonding. Which means I've got nothing to complain about.....shit.
• kinnakeet, while it is one thing to be concerned about the prominence of virtual community in the lives of so many (and yes, I am sometimes amazed at the degree of emotionally investment I can have in a bunch of strange monkeys...) what really creeps me out is the people who have involved emotional attachment to the "people" on tv shows. even the obsessions that many harbor towards celebrities seem to me a terrible extreme of this disolution of community and real connection between people...
• Ooh, Medusa, or people who cannot detach the actor from the role the actor plays.
• kinnakeet - that is a very sad story. I know that I would go crazy if I had to live alone. I've been so lucky, I lived with my mum, then had a steady boyfriend - and when he was away, I had a cat. So it was much more bearable. I agree that mass media (esp radio, television) has had a detrimental effect on civil society/civil engagement. The internet is re-engaging people mentally, but it cannot connect them physically the way that organisations and clubs can. offtopic - quid, are you looking for a girlfriend? Because seriously, you are both cute and funny, the women of London are idiots for not snapping you up.
• jb! don't encourage him...he's mine! mine!!
• you are both cute and funny There's two of them? Why don't people tell me these things?
• quid, are you looking for a girlfriend No. That's a very sweet comment though, jb. Medusa's was perhaps more accurate, however ...
• Hey! I just thought of something - maybe loners don't NEED as much immunity, 'cause they come into contact with fewer sick people!
• Medusa--it's too weird that you touched on celebrity culture, as I was musing on that particular trend yesterday when I heard someone at work explaining his fondness for Elvis Presley by saying, "the only thing I have to talk, really talk, with my Mom about is Elvis. It's the one thing we have in common." Indeed, celebrity obsession is increasingly taking the place of real human involvement. Why else would anyone have the slightest interest in, for example, Brangelina's baby, unless they had no children in their own families to care about? Once again I am refreshed by the intelligence of the Monkeys...
• I can personally attest that Father Renault and I share our most deepest bond over Julie Christie, Catherine Deneuve, and Romy Schneider... Usually, we don't talk too much, though.
• kinakeet, I have a friend who left a party to go home and watch Survivor!! she even has plenty of friends, but was more interested in following the "adventures" of a bunch of random strangers.... /so glad I got rid of the ol' tv