July 12, 2006

• They can wipe my hard drive anytime etczzzzzzzzzzzz But seriously, if firemen and the WI can do 'nudey' calendars, why not teccies? It's just a bit of fun, surely? Better looking than the IT Crowd in my office anyway.
• I agree with kitfisto - surely this is just a bit of fun? I thought it was cute how they were movie based. And not all of the models were young and stick thin. Reminds me of the calendars my flatmate and I would make to send everyone as xmas presents.
• "Generation Sex, respects, the rights, of girls, who wanna take their clothes off. As long as we can all watch, That's OK." 'Generation Sex', The Divine Comedy That said, I don't have a problem with this at all. It reminds me of a colleague had a calendar that his village's Women's Institute had done. *shudder*, apart from June, which was the local schoolteacher with freckles and pigtails.... gomichild, pix plz!
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• I have mixed feelings. On the one hand, I think it's great that IT folks can shed that "nerd" image which most of us know is false. OTOH... doesn't this set kind of unrealistic expectations for most real working women? Bad enough we have all them sexy Hollywood women to compete with, now the world in general is gonna get the message, "Oh! Real working women really are SUPPOSED to be sexy and glamorous; it's NOT just an unrealistic Hollywood expectation." One more thing for most of us to not be able to measure up to. I guess I'll never be a "thong feminist." Pity me, Gen-Y.
• Bizarre. The images aren't exactly cheesecake shots, you know.
• Sarah does NOT look happy. She might be trying to look mean, but it just looks like she's thinking, "Why did I have to get this crappy movie? Just because I'm black I have to reinact horrible movie?" Which raises an interesting point. I wonder what they would have done if there were more than one black, asian, or indian woman? Heaven forbid that they would re-enact, say, the Basic Instinct or Pulp Fiction scenes. While it is nice that the women aren't entirely cheesecake-style pictures, the only physical resemblance that many of them have to the original is their ethnicity. Skin color trumps all, eh?
• I'm not sure there was ever a decline in the general consensus that geeky women are sexy (hellooo naughty librarian!) - and if anything, the Tina Fey effect of recent years certainly highlights it. But I question two points: are we *really* inculcating Hollywood expectations into our day to day lives, as as baseline to measure up to? It seems at once so foolish (are we so intellectually stunted that we cannot discern film fantasy from rather more prosaic reality?) while at the same time such an exercise in willfull denial. And: are we realy of the mind that this sorts of calendars, etc are "empowering"? Ribald and fun, sure - but empowering? That I don't get, unless the power is that of overcoming one's own introversion.
• Are we *really* inculcating Hollywood expectations into our day to day lives, as as baseline to measure up to? It seems at once so foolish (are we so intellectually stunted that we cannot discern film fantasy from rather more prosaic reality?) Yes.
• 40% increase in women having plastic surgery Plastic surgery among teens on the rise Pop culture contributing to rise in plastic surgery? Lots of statistics about the increase in plastic surgery and relation to media images And these are just the first few hits. Is the increase due to an increase in the amount of media imagery we're exposing ourselves to, or an increase in the accessibility of cosmetic procedures? Is said accessibility a result of increasing demand?
• These femes all look stiff and mechanical. Must be all that time they lived among the machines.
• Sarah does NOT look happy...These femes all look stiff and mechanical The facial expressions are almost uniformly horrible. You'd think the photographer would have given them some more coaching, considering how much trouble they went to with the other details in the images. I guess that might prove their geek cred though. Under similar stress most true geeks I know would be just as bad at acting.
• Barring questions of correlation \= causation and assuming this is indeed the case, TUM, I can't help but wonder if this is not a manifestation of the American cultural insecurity vis. appearance? Or a symptom of some deeper psychological aspect that is distilled out this way? Or is it simply the distillation of envy? I am bald -> I see other men with hair portrayed as being desirable -> I purchase Propecia? I am reminded of something one of my former bosses (a very successful salesman in the life insurance industry, one of the most difficult sales industries in the world, imo) commenting extensively on the need to "disturb" the prospective client as an impetus to action (and thus sales). I wonder if this isn't simply the successful disturbing of a demographic.
• assuming this is indeed the case, TUM I didn't mean to come off as ASSUMING it was the case (blame either my lower-than-usual caffeine intake or my general simple-mindedness for my poor rhetoric). I'm more sort of asking the question of whether it might be, hoping it isn't, and half-wishing people wouldn't perpetuate it just in case it is.
• Was assuming on my part in service to discussion, no impugn of your rhetoric meant :) But I don't know that we are viewing more envy-producing portrayals - on the question of plastic surgery, I think it's a matter of decreasing prices and more availability. Everyone wants to be desirable, but when in the past they were relagated to desirability-raising techniques of a more simpler nature, the technology of plastic surgery has followed, I think, a similar track as other technologies - as time passes, availability increases while price decreases, which creates a larger market. This is a natural occurrence in most markets, and as such is not necessarily indicative of increasing levels of insecurity. My thought is, the demand amorphous though it mayhave been) was always there, but priced out of the marketplace. Eventually, price came down to the point where plastic surgery has become accessible to far more people, hence the uptick. And I don't neessarily think that it is a bad thing! If people want plastic surgery, can afford it, it's safe and effective, and makes them feel better about themselves, why not get it?
• None of those women are hot.
• If people want plastic surgery, can afford it, it's safe and effective, and makes them feel better about themselves, why not get it? Because it defies the Deity's great edict that you remain in your purest, untainted form, just as the Deity done made you. That, and most boob jobs look terrible.
• I have always considered plastic surgery as part of the broader 'body modification' trend, which includes tattooing and piercing, all of which assumedly make one more attractive and desirable to one's target audience. As long as there's been society there's been societal ideals of attractiveness, and pressures to conform to them. This is nothing new.
• "A Wagoner was once driving a heavy load along a very muddy way. He came to a part of the road where the wheels sank half-way into the mire, and the more the horses pulled, the deeper sank the wheels. So the Wagoner threw down his whip, and knelt down and prayed to Hercules the Strong. 'O Hercules, help me in this my hour of distress." But Hercules appeared to him, and said: 'Man, don't sprawl there. Get up and put your shoulder to the wheel. The gods help them that help themselves."
• That is a nasty thought - we all have a target audience. I wonder what my demographic is?
• I think that part of the requirement for getting completely elective cosmetic surgery should be serilization. Of course I also think that should be one of the requirements for buying SUV, so I might just be in favor of sterilization...
• >>If people want plastic surgery, can afford it, it's safe and effective, and makes them feel better about themselves, why not get it? Point 1: it may or may not be safe. Point 2: an ounce of self-acceptance is better than a pound of fixing it if it ain't broke. Should it be possible to have your brain surgically altered to make your personality more 'attractive' by some standard- to make yourself less opinionated and more docile, for instance? Or to make yourself stupider, because some men are reportedly intimidated by intelligent women? >>all of which assumedly make one more attractive and desirable to one's target audience. Why not make your "target audience" the people who already find you attractive? Why would you want to attract someone who's not really attracted to your own self? I mean, I don't really care what people do with their five grand or whatever, but I second the 'most boob jobs look terrible', and I'd add to it that the whole idea creeps me out. I don't buy the tattoos-and-piercings analogy, by the way; decorations that announce themselves as such are different from boob jobs or, say, hair plugs...
• >>Why not make your "target audience" the people who already find you attractive? << 'Cause they're CREEPY!
• Anyway, maybe it's my own insecurity talking, but this calendar says to me: "It's not enough for you to be smart and competent and do your job well, you have to be shapely and glamorous, too."
• Nothing wrong with being geeky. IT /used/ to be the one field where skills were more important than looks, for men and women. Guess the "geek goddesses" didn't like that. Maybe they'd rather be on the simple life.
• I think we're way overanalyzing this. It's a calendar. Some female geeks decided to have a bit of fun. Any messages sent by the content are generated from within the viewer. End of story.
• Point 1: it may or may not be safe. True, but that point could be made about a lot of things: example: young adult male believes that the purchase of a 5-liter Mustang (red, natch) will make him seem more attractive to his "target audience", so he buys one. However, young adult males are typically risk-takers as well as inexperienced drivers, so climbing behind the wheel of a big Stang (esp. in light of Ford's propensity to mount crappy tires on them) is an inherently potentially dangerous proposition. But is it our right to prevent him from buying such a car? Not at all. If he the means and the desire, he ought to be able to purchase any sort of car, for any sort of reason he feels compelling, that he sees fit. Point 2: an ounce of self-acceptance is better than a pound of fixing it if it ain't broke. Almost certainly. But is it our place to judge? We may all wish the we, and everyone, had levels of self-acceptance and-esteem sufficient to preclude wanting cosmetic surgery. But sadly, the world isn't that sort of place. Why should we stand in the way of someone who has decided they want a boob job? Should it be possible to have your brain surgically altered to make your personality more 'attractive' by some standard- to make yourself less opinionated and more docile, for instance? Or to make yourself stupider, because some men are reportedly intimidated by intelligent women? It's already possible, albeit non-surgically. People hide or modify various aspects of their personality every day for as many reasons as there are hiders. But if such surgery were available, and someone desired it, and their safety and health would be otherwise unaffected? As long as they were making an informed choice, I can't see where we would have cause - or right - to interfere. Why not make your "target audience" the people who already find you attractive? Why would you want to attract someone who's not really attracted to your own self? Because we might no find *them* attractive, as TUM ably observed. What if you don't know who finds you attractive? What if there are none of those people around? The heart, as Woody Allen so succinctly rationalized, wants what it wants. I mean, I don't really care what people do with their five grand or whatever, but I second the 'most boob jobs look terrible', and I'd add to it that the whole idea creeps me out. And that is an opinion that it is your absolute right to hold. Perhaps I even agree. However, while we may criticize with abandon, it does not allow us the right to interfere with another adults choice to obtain a boob job if they so desire, for whatever reason they desire it. I don't buy the tattoos-and-piercings analogy, by the way; decorations that announce themselves as such are different from boob jobs or, say, hair plugs... Other than being more overt, and directed at highly specific target audiences, how so? Decoration is decoration, be it plugs, boobs, black lipstick, a forked tongue, or a swirly tribal ass tattoo.
• Nothing wrong with cosmetic surgery. rocket88 says: "all of which assumedly make one more attractive and desirable to one's target audience." Total bullshit. I suppose you also think women wear makeup & nice clothes to attract men, right? It's about self-esteem. If getting a bit of botox or a nip & tuck will boost your self-esteem, go for it. The bat says: "an ounce of self-acceptance is better than a pound of fixing it if it ain't broke." Putting the cart before the horse. If you can get a boost in self-esteem from a bit of surgery, then do it. As for cosmetic surgery being dangerous.. uh.. what century are y'all living in? Only fools go to cheapo back-yard cosmetic surgeons. Anyone else is virtually guaranteed of a successful op, if they don't smoke or drink during the lead-up & thru the healing process. What's the difference, essentially, between a guy going to a gym to tone his abs, & a female getting a bit of botox in her brow? Aside from the mechanics of the process: nothing. The men *may* be thinking of attracting females, but more assuredly they're concerned about their appearance next to other men. The same goes for women; most of the attention to looks is competition with other females. Women are judged far more harshly than men based on looks, & it in fact gets in the way of their careers. This is an injustice for which, in the words of Henry Root, 'we're all guilty'.
• It's interesting that calendars such as this are lambasted from both the right (for percieved immorality and encouraging promiscuity) and the left (for perpetuating stereotypes of female beauty and negatively shaping young womens' self-image). There seem to be fewer and fewer live-and-let-live attitudes anymore. Everyone assumes to know what's best for everyone else.
• That is a very common disease, and not limited to opinions on cake calendars by a long stretch.
• I think all those models should be circumsised
• I suppose you also think women wear makeup & nice clothes to attract men, right? Yes, I do. That's why women will invariably put more effort into makeup and clothing when preparing for a date than if they were just going to a girlfriend's house for a movie. Granted, there's a self-esteem aspect to it as well (after all, women who aren't looking for a mate will still wear makeup), but the base motivator is sexual attraction.
• As for cosmetic surgery being dangerous.. uh.. what century are y'all living in? Only fools go to cheapo back-yard cosmetic surgeons. Anyone else is virtually guaranteed of a successful op, if they don't smoke or drink during the lead-up & thru the healing process. I'm sure that's what Olivia Goldsmith, author of the First Wives Club, thought... (And I also think anyone who buys a Mustang should be sterilized, too. Have you EVER met someone with a Mustang who wasn't a jackass? And don't worry, if I ever get married I plan on getting fixed!)
• Awful Plastic Surgery ewww!
• I had a Mustang once :) /bray! Agree with Chyren on safety. Any surgery contains the potential for hazard. Plastic surgery is no more hazardous than any other minor procedure. Bad things can happen, but they usually don't.
• The photographer should be shot. Really. If he couldn't make them be at ease and at least look relaxed or happy (let alone smoking hot sexy) they should have hired someone else. The aim is to promote careers in IT to women and girls by showing that geeky women can still be sexy Geeky women *are* sexy. Period.
• bottom.
• Geeky women *are* sexy. Period. I think I found my target audience.
• Less talk. More clicky-clicky.
• I hear ya, my bruther!
• More talk. >>Decoration is decoration, be it plugs, boobs, black lipstick, a forked tongue, or a swirly tribal ass tattoo. So are there people who haven't lost their hair, who get hair plugs because they like the way hair plugs look? If it's not my body, it's none of my beeswax- I grasp that FULLY. That said, let's be serious- confident, self-accepting people do not have their freakin' ARMPIT HAIR surgically grafted to their heads in the hopes that it will make them look Young And Sexy. The cosmetic surgery industry sustains itself, for the most part, by exploiting vanity and insecurity, or so it seems to me. That's all I'm sayin'. I know- people are trying to admire the geeky hotness, and we're mixing it up about boob jobs. I'll shut up now.
• I think we're way overanalyzing this. Yes, of course we are! Absolutely! So?
• "That's why women will invariably put more effort into makeup and clothing when preparing for a date than if they were just going to a girlfriend's house for a movie." You don't know many women, do you?
• I do too have a girlfriend. You wouldn't know her. She's Canadian.
• The cosmetic surgery industry sustains itself, for the most part, by exploiting vanity and insecurity, or so it seems to me. Not entirely, of course, but I imagine it's the industry's bread and butter - but so what? We could level the same charge at the fashion industry, the automotive industry, the diet soda industry, ad infinitum. Outside of essential needs, huge swaths of goods and services bought and sold every day are done so in service to exploiting (or in the case of the buyer, assuaging) vanity and insecurity. Sure, it sounds ludicrous to shave one's pits and have the leavings pop-rivetted onto one's skull. But is it any more ludicrous than buying a red Mustang to impress chicks? The whole ethos of things is, in many ways, display for others and the acquisition of accoutrements that help us in showing our inner selves. You decry the exploitation of vanity and insecurity, but they are two driving wheels of commerce and, even if they weren't, they would still be with us.
• You don't know many women, do you? Plenty. I'll admit the possibility, however, that Australian women may differ (or Australian men).
• Well, my wife says you're full of shit. She's a woman. I have proof.
• I have it on good authority that Australian women's bits are upside down compared to American women's bits, barring gravitational forces.
• The only reason to be concerned about your appearance is because you are concerned with what other people think of your appearance. You can't see yourself. The greater lengths you will go to alter your appearance, the more you are concerned with what other people think of your appearance. Heterosexual like to appeal to members of the opposite sex. Therefore, heterosexual people care more about members of the opposite sex approving of their appearance. You really think that a group of women somehow living on the proverbial desert island would wear makeup and give each other boob jobs? Plastic surgery increases self-esteem in the sense that a person has more self-esteem if the opposite sex finds that person attractive. Plastic surgery makes members of the opposite sex find the person more attractive. Now the person feels more self-esteem, but the self-esteem is based on appealing to the opposite sex.
• but the self-esteem is based on appealing to the opposite sex. *And* on keeping our status among peers. If your friends start getting boob jobs and a tuck and a snip...
• ...I start to wonder what exactly it is that I have in common with my friends. Seriously, since when have medical procedures (including the cosmetic ones, obviously) been absent of risk?
• Anyway, maybe it's my own insecurity talking, but this calendar says to me: "It's not enough for you to be smart and competent and do your job well, you have to be shapely and glamorous, too." I tend to agree with this comment. Maybe we are overanalysing in the sense that this is ONE calendar, but then again, what it represents is bigger than itself, if ya get me. I find it odd that they were ostensibly doing this calendar to 'attract women into the IT industry': I don't see how these two things match up. (This is how it was reported here in Oz) Promise me a decent salary, a stimulating work environment blah blah, yes, that IS an incentive to seek to enter the field. But a rique calendar? Speaking only for myself, that would act as a disincentive. "Why the fuck would I want to join those twats" is probably along the lines of what I'd be thinking. I haven't got a problem with the calendar per se, if you want to go rudey nudey then that's up to you, but the REASON that gave for it, is bullshit.
• Promise me a decent salary, a stimulating work environment blah blah, yes, that IS an incentive to seek to enter the field. Exactly. A healthy, no glass-ceiling or discriminatory environment is what women in IT seek and seldomly find, from what I've learned from a few I've known in that field. Sexist attitudes like scoffing when a female troubleshooter arrives on field or plain harassment is what makes women opt out.
• I haven't read all the comments in this thread, but from the moment I saw this thing (on metafilter) I felt "wow, so smart sucessful chicks still have to prove themselves on this pissant shallow level too?" as tho it will never be enough for any woman to achieve any and every conceivable goal if she is not also deemed attractive by those around her. It's pretty annoying.
• I agree with Medusa, who has nice tits.
• how do you know that RTD????????????
• Aw, Medusa. We just KNOW. Someone as awesome as you HAS to have nice tits.
• well I do in fact have famously great boobs, I just didn't think that was known in monkeydom ;)
• I am from Missouri. I am therefore not prepared to take your word on the subject.
• I've heard it said that women don't dress to impress men, they dress to intimidate other women. You really think that a group of women somehow living on the proverbial desert island would wear makeup and give each other boob jobs? Gads, I hope not. I can visualize a bunch of no-boobed Amazons. MonkeyFilter: Ribald and fun, sure - but empowering? MonkeyFilter: I think we're way overanalyzing this. MonkeyFilter: Decoration is decoration, be it plugs, boobs, black lipstick, a forked tongue, or a swirly tribal ass tattoo. MonkeyFilter: Less talk. More clicky-clicky. MonkeyFilter: ...I start to wonder what exactly it is that I have in common with my friends. AND FINALLY... *drumroll MonkeyFilter: "Why the fuck would I want to join those twats" *cymbals crash
• I've heard it said that women don't dress to impress men, they dress to intimidate other women. I intimidate other women just by being in the room. No uniform required. It also helps that my voice is deeper than Kathleen Turner's and I talk very loudly, using polysyllabic words.
• nunia, I believe we are soulmates, psychic sisters, dopplegangers... I too have a dragqueen-as-Jessica-Rabbit voice, a very large vocabulary of very large words and I am tall. so I terrify the masses *evil grin*
• the calendar would have made more sense to me if it had shown the ladies doing their actual jobs. most or all of them look uncomfortable in the movie-poster emulation; might they have been happier in work oufits and environments? and what flagpole said: xx + added geekiness = the hotness now can i make jokes about rack mounting servers?
• Medusa, my dear: we aren't bad. We're just drawn that way.
• might they have been happier in work oufits I think the Land's End for Ladies catalog effectively covers this market already. Hello, catalog ordering center? I'd like to order a blue polo, and another blue polo. Thanks!
• I'm thinking back to when we had a female IT person in our unit, and she usually DID wear shortish skirts and low-cut tops. And she was awfully cute. The man who replaced her is awfully cute, too, though! And an "Office Space"/Monty Python fan! (Although the "is-he-or-isn't-he" question remains unresolved...)
• He is.
• Thanks! And I was just about to start a Curious George: Deternining the Sexual Orientation of your Workplace Crush Without it Turning into a "Kids in the Hall" Sketch thread!
• What? You don't have Gaydar, TUM?
• you can buy gaydar usb keys now.
• While we're honoring the women of IT, let's all run out and buy a new mouse. Don't forget to click the buttons, fellas.
• WHAT?!? The Pirate Mouse is no longer available?!?!?
• Just read in the dead tree newspaper they only managed to sell 3000 of these, despite worldwide publicity.