June 21, 2006

The Fate of Greenland's Vikings Archaeological excavations of the settlement founded by Erik the Red in the 14th century. Not a happy ending. (Via anastasiav.)

Yes, it's six years old. But still.

posted by tracicle 18 years ago
  • Great read.
  • There are a few pictures here.
  • Yet more reason to kill priests on sight.
  • Jared Diamond's 'Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed' talks a lot about the Greenland norse. Apparently there are no fish bones to be found in any of the archeology, leading some archeologists to eventually conclude that the Greenland norse refused to eat fish for some cultural reason. Needless to say, eliminating a major source of protein from their diet didn't do their long term survival chances much good...
  • Hard to believe that Norwegians would have a cultural problem with eating fish.
  • Hard to believe that Norwegians would have a cultural problem with eating fish. Some days, all that fishiness just gets to you.
  • I heard somewhere (maybe from a Norse lit person) that they did eat fish. But the article suggests a more complex answer - they did keep trying to farm, and didn't do the kind of fishing the Inuit did (which was better adapted to the Arctic).
  • Fascinating stuff. Offhand, I have to wonder that if there was this refusal to adapt European methods, why the settlement at L'Anse aux Meadows wouldn't have stood a better chance -- with plenty of wood and grazing or farming areas. But being even more remote wouldn't have helped, and with less harsh living conditions all round, presumably the Inuit could have repelled the Norse without having to lose focus on simple survival. Huh.
  • Just going to insert, as an archaeologist: Fish bones are really, really hard to find on certain kinds of sites. A friend of mine did an experiment with herringbones, reproducing Alaska site conditions and using different size screens (1/4 inch is common, 1/8 is catching up finally, and anything finer is rare), and a veteran archaeologist. That guy only found the bones when they did fine-mesh wetscreening. No one does that, at least not in any large amounts, because it's ridiculously time-consuming.
  • The Diamond book claims that a lot of different archeologists have looked very very hard for fish bones precisely because it seems so unlikely that the Greenland norse refused to eat any fish & they never found any. Obviously me quoting this to you third hand via Diamond isn't necessarily going to be convincing though.
  • Mebbe they all ate the fish bones and choked to death.
  • Or ate only Highliner and Filet O'Fish.
  • Arrrrr, Billy!
  • Whale, that was indeed, a good read.
  • Interesting read, thanks tracicle. Maybe Eric didn't have a fish license...
  • GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLL!!!!!
  • My mother swears TO THIS DAY that Erik is in my family tree. Apparently, I am a direct descendent of some sort. Alas, there is no way to know conclusively, but it does make a great conversation starter in the grocery line... ...especially when I don my bear skin and start pillaging from other people's carts.
  • Good grief. Everyone knows Godzilla ate the Greenland Norsemen.
  • I can't believe an historical article used the incorrect misnomer "Black Plague". that always burns my butt!
  • ?que?
  • GODZILLA. You know: Down from the depth, 20 stories high, breathes fire, he stands in the sky: GODZILLA, GODZILLA, GODZILLA (and Godzookie).
  • (boubonic) plague = disease black death = historical event /medieval pedantic rant
  • Skrik, tell me you didn't chant Godzilla's name five times in front of a mirror... Mothra will be so pissed.
  • Mirror? I sing it out the car window when passing fields of cattle. (And let me tell you, passing cattle hurts like hell.)
  • I think we all know which Zilla kilt the Nordistanians:
  • (And let me tell you, passing cattle hurts like hell.) *sNOrtflze!* Ow! goddammit! Ugh! And thanks for the handy plague tip Medusa!
  • I am always happy to share my bizarre obssession with disease in history with those around me!
  • Grave thoughts A plague on both your houses: Since this means one apiece, Both black and bubonic may Bring about eternal peace.
  • On the fish - if I have my source right (and I'm not sure, because it was ages ago, and I really should ask her again), the person I was talking to had literary and other historical evidence for the place of fish in Norse culture. I believe you when you say that fish bones are really hard to find; would acidic soil also mean that they were likely to degrade? though I did meet someone once whose speciality was identifying species based on bones, including many fish bones, from the Northwest. Capt Renault - the Newfoundland site is still pretty far north, I don't think there's much forest up there even today and the climate was slightly colder in the period (Little Ice Age). Also soil might not have been deep enough for farming (and with cattle, you still need winter fodder). There are places in Nova Scotia where you can have just a few inches of soil before you hit bedrock. I still remember my childhood disapointment when we realised our tent wouldn't stay up and we had to sleep indoors. But I think I heard that particular settlement was ended by violence.
  • Acidic soil would make it even worse, never mind that they're tiny to begin with. I don't know the soil in the Viking settlements, but here in southern New England, the soil eats bone like it's delicious. I worked on a 18th/19th c. site here and the human remains were...kind of spongy, like a decayed root. I'd be unsurprised if fish bones from even longer ago were just gone.
  • Pathfinder: A Viking boy is left behind after his clan battles a Native American tribe. Raised within the tribe, he ultimately becomes their savoir in a fight against the Norsemen. I'm not sure that this is entirely historicaly accurate.
  • Whøres.
  • Pics pls, thx.
  • You know they were just asking for a raiding and/or pillaging.
  • Let's ask the Viking Answer Lady, at vikinganswerlady.com...
  • Sorry homunculus, but this ain't gonna strike any sparks from Thor's hammer. also, she's definitely wearing a bra under there, which is CHEATING
  • Husband: Rudolph The Red says we're going to have some precipitation tomorrow. Wife: How the hell would he know? Husband: Rudolph The Red knows rain, dear. Take pity on me, I teach children all day
  • Dear friends, take pity on my lot, My cup is not of nectar! I long have told – as who would not? – The joke about the rector*. Long years ago my joke began So sweetly – yet so sadly – But when I told of Erik the Red, Away my groaning students fled – I found I told it badly. Oh! You very, very lame old joke, I tell, I tell you baldt! You very lame old man, I tell you badly!! * My sister wed the rector She became a rector's wife And if he truth be spoken The rector wrecked her life
  • "I'm Thor" he said. "You're thor!" she exclaimed. "Lithen buthter, I'm tho thor I can hardly thit down!"
  • I heard it's "I'm tho thore I can I can hardly pith!" That's how Thor himself told it, anyway.
  • Hey, don't get thor at me! Thath how I heard it the firsth thime.
  • I guess that sealed their fate.