May 27, 2006

• I once lived in a crappy state like Tennessee -- the media there abided by the principle of not rocking the boat. We were personal friends with a high-level government official who was trying to blow the whistle on some representatives who were raiding environmental funds for a pet project, and he could not get the media to listen, except for a letter to the editor in a college town newspaper. About 100 times as much media attention went to how well the area football team was doing.
• Anyway it's not much of an anecdote, but just sayin', anyways.
• I don't think I can stand to listen to the tape. Fuckers.
• You people don't seem to understand that when you're the Good Guys, *ANYTHING YOU DO IS RIGHT*. If you can grasp that principle, you can live comfortably in 21st Century America.
• D'ya know, why's anyone surprised? Human rights in Yoo Ess of Arse-hole are a bloody joke. & it's not just the African yanks, the IndigIndians or the poor bloody Mexicanos who get shat on from a great height, it's the average person. Have a cruise through USA in a van or hire a car, ya get to see a lot. Get lost a few times, end up in some town where the roads are pot-holes, the stores haven't had a paint job in years and the misery shows even in the little kids faces, and that'll wake ya up. Ya hear bullshit about cost of housing there being less than Oz, what they don't tell ya is it's the cost of substandard trailer homes stuck in some crappy paddock on the outskirts of some scabby, shanty town. Sure, you got middle class but they're livin month to month workin' on the edge of losin the lot at 60+ hours a week. Child care's a joke and they live like rats in a trap. Try talking to the average yank about their lives and you get checked out for an hour before they'll even come out with what's on their minds. Then the poor bastards are tellin' ya in whispers just in case some asshole dobs on 'em for being anti-American. Poor buggers. Saw too much real suffering there, worse than some of the roughest places in Asia. At least there they know they're eating bullshit, the yanks think theyre chompin down on top cuisine. Saddest feelin I got's for people in USA, and I bin in some rough spots. & I don't reckon any yank who's on this MonkFilter's ya 'average yank'. Yous'r got time for thinkin' Most yanks don't get the luxury. What about those poor old grandies on 'welcome to walmart' jobs? Doin the job for bugger-all so they can get heath insurance to pay for basic health care. Then ya get states where the state health insurance company's gone broke! Yeah, it's a bloody great place alright! Torture's what they're used to.
• ▲ we're not all like this, folks.
• BasilDrak, please cite your sources. Thanks!
• Well, as an expat American, I've got to agree with Chyren -- we're not all like that. What non-Americans tend to forget is just how big the US is, how rural it is compared to countries like Australia or Canada, and how important local and state government is relative to the federal go'vt. It really is 50 quite separate states in some ways.
• i believe chyren was saying not all australians are like basildrak, but in the same vein, sfred is absolutely correct as well.
• Yeah, ya right, some of us do give a bugger about what other people go through in life. i'm no super-IQ polysyllabic sittin on me ivory-towered bum carefully inserting "fuck you" in the right place of an intellectually creative bloody insight. Politics starts here mate. We're all here doin' our bit to change shit into humus. Yeah SFred, i know all yanks are not like that, i didn't say yous were. Fa cryin out loud. How clear can ya get. What I saw in 10 yrs of livin in USA was a lotta people who were havin a bloody bad time. I also met a lotta people who were doin all they could to change that. I got good mates over there, the best. But i also met more serious shits there than anywhere else I ever been, and not the barrio bashers either. When ya get people with bugger all to eat sharin what they got with ya coz yous'r stuck in the middle of bloody nowhere trying to fix a broken van, while bastards in SUV's are too shit scared to stop to give ya a hand, that's when ya meet top people mate.
• Techsmith, if i was ta give yous me sources, I'd be here all bloody night. I'll give ya a few spots. Washington State, Oregon, Wyoming, Montana, Nebraska, Michigan, Nth & Sth Dakota, New Hampshire, Connecticut, W.Virginia, Rhode Island, Maine, up & down the east coast, Nth & Sth Carolina, Mississippi, Tennesee, Kansas, Iowa, Kentucky, Cal', New Mexico, Colorado, Nevada, Idaho, Ohio, Utah, Indiana. Texas, Louisiana, Alabama, Georgia, Florida. Oh yeah, New York State, New Jersey. Nuff ya reckon?
• Basil - I think the Americans on MoFi are pretty good examples of Americans in general. Are you a good example of Australians in general? If so, thanks for the info, that clears up a lot. Oh, and by the way, thanks also for referring to our country as the "Yoo Ess of Arse-hole". Word choices such as that are always a good way to begin a civil discussion of cultural differences.
• Never write in patois, kids.
• I don't find BasilDrak's view insulting, if that's what you mean, Chy, though it may be a bit exaggerated for effect ;) It's probably healthy for us to get an iconoclastic rundown now and again on how we appear to furriners. I can see some truth in each of his points, but don't think these are largely human rights issues. The truthiness in them, in my opinion, comes from a complex stew of Truths We Hold Dear. For example, the majority of USAians is deeply suspicious of any hint of socialism. State supported schools, public works projects, and social security benefits, including medical care, for retirees do exist, but efforts to extend things beyond those bring out the army of folks who really fear "The Welfare State." (Note that that includes scare quotation marks and oogly capitalization.) It appears that, all evidence to the contrary, it's assumed that offering a broader range of public services would mean that every one would just stop working a loll about. And the schools are directly managed by locally elected school boards, also known as "amateurs., which means that priorities aren't consistent from venue to venue. Some do a good job, but some don't. And, the Protestant work ethic is much beloved in this country, though the depth of love varies from generation to generation. The generation after mine, the Baby Boomers, brought fundamentalist enthusiasm for the ethic. Over the course of about 10 years, we went from a standard of the 40 hour week to one in which 60 hours was the minimum expectation. And, the middle class bought into that with enthusiasm. Since most of them were salaried, it made no difference in their pay. You could see the effect trickle down to low level, salaried employees, when they would show a sort of innocent pride in having worked all day and all night. The Gen-Xers aren't as enthusiastic. And, let's not forget that there still is a strain of the "cowboy virus" which runs through out society. We're individualists and don't follow the boring path-most-traveled in our minds, even though we may look pretty robot-like from the outside.
• I dunno path - as an outsider looking in and having lived there for a while I developed a couple of my own theories. One is, there is a deep suspicion of government; having lived there and paid taxes there and seen how little you actually get for what you pay, I'd say that that is a fair viewpoint, up to a point. But there are US govt provided social services which do actually function pretty well - take a bow Social Security for instance. And by reputation the VA medical services are very efficient and effective, though badly underfunded (and getting further stretched by Iraq). And the army of Welfare State haters always looked more like a rent-a-crowd to me, more astroturf than not.
• I cant get the MP3 to work on a mac, another link?
• They're not a-rent-a crowd. Perhaps the people you knew were not of the same ilk, but there's this huge, trusting, startled by discussion population out there who think listening to preaching to the congregation means they're getting the straight skinny. I live in rural California, where the folks with influence mirror the midwestern thinking that they got from their parents. I also lived in Oklahoma for several years, where a new opinion was a threat since it didn't fit in with what they'd been tought by their parents or in church. And, business travels around the country convinced me that there's this huge, well meaning population in the south and midwest who only hear conservative discussion, and have a real problem adjusting to the idea that someone could disagree. These are not all unlettered folks, but they are very tradiional. I think that if you live in a place where you grow only hearing people agreeing with each other, you'll agree with them, and the occasional dissenter is someone who threatens your way of life. I also think that works for both conservatives and liberals, though it may be harder to find liberals in this country who don't have to think about conflicting opinions since they're in more mixed areas.
• maybe path, but if you were to ask the people you mention if they think that it's right that they stand to lose their house if their kid gets cancer, that they would say yes? I doubt it. So while they might say that they are against the welfare state, because that's the conventional wisdom, put it in practical terms and I think you'll see a more thoughtful response.
• The first "mp3" link is in actuallity a windows media file. Here's an mp3 and here's a torrent link.
• polychrome, you might be surprised at just how deeply rooted Calvinism and self-sufficiency are in the USA. If you asked my grandmother your question she would have said "We didn't, she did, and mind your own business". There are an awful lot of tough people like that and their collective suspicion of ideas is what path is talking about. She would not have any nonsense about Communism - hell, she thought the New Deal was too much. And until my grandfather started working in Detroit, they never had much in the way of comforts. These are the American voters who form a lot of public opinion, and you have quite a slog convincing them there's something they need the government for. Generally the government, in their minds, is for keeping roads paved, and the rest of the time government is someone you shoot when they come looking for your still.
• polychrome - "yes" to what underlying cause that leads to loss of residence and cancer in children? In my experience, they do rely on conventional wisdom. I'm not saying it's good, just that I think it exists in a major part of our country. Like the part the re-elected Bush. While his numbers may be going down, I don't think that that equates to a real rejection of the conservative program. My greatest fear, if Democrats can't get their act together, is that we'll wind up with worse.
• path- medical costs in the US being what they are, a major illness can lead to financial ruin. Bankruptcy rates recently rose above divorce rates in the US, and in 50% (or so) of cases the bankruptcy was principally due to financial strains incurred by a medical incident. *shrug* I didn't see enough of the US to have a particularly informed opinion. And most of the areas I hung out in were relatively urban. I won't say I never bumped into the attitudes that you described, just that they were relatively uncommon.
• Incherestin' this ritin' how I talk. Howz it comin' across for y'all?
• I was at a small town auction last month. A decommissioned police car came up for bid. It had all of the police logos removed but still had the black and white paint job and giant D.A.R.E. stickers on the trunk and hood. No one was really seriously bidding on it so I ended up buying it cheap. I had to drive 90 miles to get it back to Chicago. I got on the expressway. Everyone must have thought I was a cop.....not a single car passed me. I looked in my rear view mirror and there was a mile long line of cars behind me. The speed limit was 65. I slowed down to 60 and so did the line of cars behind me. It was like watching trained poodles. I stopped for gas. A group of kids came out of the gas station. They were goofing around and...well, being kids...having a good time. They saw the car and as if on cue they all shut up and stood up straight. You could see the gut reaction they had...fear. I decided to take back roads the rest of the way. The expressway was too fucking annoying. Every intersection was a new learning experience. People would be smiling, having a nice day and then they'd see my "cop" car and their expression would change to one of fear. I could go on and on about the ride home but I think you get where I'm coming from. There will never be another revolution in this county. There will never be a popular uprising. There is only fear and everything that comes with it. You listen to this tape and realize why. For all of our posturing and calls of freedom and liberty, we are in a jail of our own making. Petty tyrants rule this land. We are well trained citizens and we have been trained to be very very afraid. You think this tape is an isolated incident? Google "John Burge" and witness the systematic torture of Chicago citizens. This went on for decades. It still goes on today. Where is John Burge today. He must be in jail for his crimes. He's a free man. living off his pension in Florida. God bless America. (anyone want to buy a 95 Caprice with a LT1 engine?)
• Does the cigarette lighter work?
• No but I'll throw in a pack of matches and the twenty sets of plastic handcuffs I found in the trunk.
• Well, you're right of course es el Queso. My reading comprehension is slow today.
• C'mon Chy, It's got cop tires, cop suspension, and cop shocks; it was a model made before catalytic converters, so it'll run good on regular gas...
• Finally!
• The guy was a dealer, continued to deal after this incident and is serving time. That this man was fool I don't doubt, do I give a crap what happened to him, only in the abstract. The officers responsible have been stopped, jail maybe too good for them perhaps they should have the testicles excised. Chyren the patois is fine, and usually you ain't half as interesting as that BasilDrak fella.
• Thanks for the working link, Tech.. There's a PDF transcript available here..
• RalphTheDog Thinks the Americans on MoFi are pretty good examples of Americans in general. Way to make Basil's point for him. If what you are suggesting is true, Bush may have gotten elected once.--But how do you explain his second term? No Ralph. I don't think so. Basil made some powerful points. But it is OK to remain in denial. Wouldn't want to face what is at the bottom of the mountain this country is barreling toward at highspeed.
• Well, nippurr, I guess Basil said it best: "Yous'r got time for thinkin'". The rest of us are out-of-touch elitist liberals who never read the news or look out our windows. Who built all these ivory towers, anyway?
• Just sign the damn paper!
• Ralph: Irish immigrants, Italian immigrants, Chinese immigrants etc. Today a lot of what is being built is being done by Mexicans, Guatemalans etc. Life may be great for some of us here. But there are many who struggle just to survive. But I suspect you know it. We who have it great have it great on the backs of many unfortunates.
• "Chyren the patois is fine, and usually you ain't half as interesting as that BasilDrak fella." You got a dog in this race? It's not about being interesting, it's about being comprehensible.
• Adding to nippurr comment, You might call this a democracy, but it is an Athenian Democracy,,one that is built with slaves and actual voting is limited to an esoteric few. Without a slave class this type of society could not exist. There is always going to be someone at the bottom.
  And when it starts appearing that the "slave" class might revolt we have a powerful ecomomic power that not only reaps financially from that but continues to keep the underclass down. What is that power?? Capitalism. That's why there will never be a true revolution in this country, Capitalism loves an insurgency.
• And to think that they said that a liberal arts education would never come in handy...
• They call me pig, although I'm underpaid I'll show those faggots that I'm not afraid
• Is anyone familiar with the source of this story? I'm hesitant to believe that the only hits on Google News would be this organisaiton and The Drug War Chronicle if it were true, especially considering the extent to which this man was tortured.
• Another, update [via metafilter comments] Don't need no dog.
• The pyjamas-media crew are at least as representative of Americans as the cuddly American monkeys. Scrub that. LFG et-al may be even more representative. Jeb Bush for 2008, would that really be such a bad thing?
• "Is anyone familiar with the source of this story? I'm hesitant to believe..." If memory serves, this incident happened at the same time Janet Jackson's tit popped out on national TV, so the cop torturing didn't get a lot of air time. It was either that or some missing white woman.
• Wtf Basil? NH?
• Amen to the rest.
• Seems most people on here read me as 'comprehensible'. I can't be bothered, most of the time, pissin about with 'English as it should be spoke'. In daily life, 'English' speakers use the colloquial 'English' from wherever we may originate. If ya want to be understood, get used to that, fast! It behooves (great word that!)us all to bloody accept that coz listening as hard as ya bloody-well can is the beginning of communication, & communication is the beginning of understanding. I'm sick to my bloody back teeth of the real issues being clouded by semantics. Who the fuck cares where ya put the apostrophe, or whether 'pissed' means angry in USA, or 'drunk' in Australia. Ya soon pick that up in context of convo. What means something is that we take the bloody time to listen bloody carefully, and then make some attempt to understand what the hell the other bloke is trying to say. Okay, in USA i'm a bleedin heart bloody liberal, but it seems to me that workin 60+ hours a week to remain in a state of acute fear 24 fuckin 7 is not a bloody good way to live. Seeing kids suffer, animals suffer, adults suffer because fuckin right-wing/left-wing ideology/theology/religious dogma et al gets in the way of what we, the human race, really are rather than what we are told we should be. Now that's downright bloody stupid. Take a look at the reality of us all. Yous don't get that many bad buggers. Most people are pretty damned fine to my mind. The real arsewipes of this world are those tryin to tell us what we should be, instead of lookin at what IS and bloody doing summat about that. Who gives a flyin fuck how some poor bugger got to be where he/she is, help the poor bastard out and screw judgemental, patronising, pompous bullshit. Poverty starts within imagination & location & is no 'punishment from the gods'. Statistically, in every country in the world, only between 5 to 8% of any population are psychopath/sociopath. Yeah, I got the sources, spent a lot of years in research, boring meself shitless. The stats are out there. If you want real stats, not those 'for USA consumption', go to European sites, f'r instance. A lot of this stuff is restricted for USA users but you can get past that if ya spend some tweakin time.
• :)
• Seems most people on here read me as 'comprehensible'. That was the first sentence of yours I've ever understood. Well, I think I understand it.
• No, Basil, we're not all like that, but it's easy to ignore the fact that many of us are - even when you're one of them. I think the Americans on MoFi are pretty good examples of Americans in general. I wholeheartedly DISagree. Americans on MoFi are pretty good examples of better-than-average Americans. That's why I chose this site, along with MeFi and MeCha and a few other places to "hang out" on the Web. Related (via MeFi): Life's Harsh Lessons 'Make You More Gullible' This goes surprisingly far to explain a lot of Americans' psyches... Right now, I feel pretty lucky. I got sick, I went broke, my wife left, my dog died, but all I really miss is the dog. Thanks to 25 years in the 40-60 hour rat race, I qualified for Social Security Disability that's more monthly money than my father gets for 40 years work and retiring 3 years early. I have no fancy tastes (none of my habits are expensive or illegal), so I moved into a closet-sized apartment in the outskirts of an overpriced, physically beautiful, more-liberal-than-most-non-urban-areas area, can afford monthly cable internet and a new piece of tech gear twice a year, and I spend my time writing (for a small supplimental income - you know my stuff) and web surfing and going out to sit on or near the beach. After having been through heck but not quite hell, I'm living the UN-American Dream... at least until some new personal crisis emerges, which part of me expects. I don't know my new neighbors too well... maybe I don't want to be disappointed, and 'virtual communities' you can move away from with a click. I'm careful about what I say politically, because I know my point of view is outside of everybody's idea of "mainstream" and doubt I'd ever be able to be influencial, and while being supported by a benign part of The Government, just don't want to bring down the rath of anybody. If/when it all collapses, THEN I'll explain to everyone where you screwed up. Until then, I'll sit over to one side, like Elvis Costello stop being disgusted and try to be amused, and notice the sililarities between Modern American Life and the TV show "Lost", especially the part about everybody being emotionally damaged and having no control over the world around them. Thanks for reading this ramble. At least I'm not writing with a dialect. (I KID!)
• "I can't be bothered, most of the time, pissin about with 'English as it should be spoke'" I'm not sure what to make of that statement. In all honesty, it feels a bit like "You folks aren't worth my taking the time to communicate clearly.." I may be wrong, but....
• Wow! Once again MoFi shows its patient, forgiving side. This post's comments would've caused a vicious frenzy in the Blue. You folks are amazing. I'm also amazed to hear one of the most diplomatic monkeys here use the term "Protestant work ethic". That is a term I heard regularly as a child and never gave a second thought to, until a Catholic in-law heard it used, and said "What does that make me?". Indeed.
• I don't know my new neighbors too well... Yeah, me neither. In fact, I go out of my way NOT to know my neighbors, that way, when the UPS guy knocks on my door and asks if I would be willing to accept a package for my neighbor, I can decline due to honest-and-for-true ignorance. Plus, social neighbors have a tendency to want to get into your business (at least, from my experience, that is). /draws drapes and peeks at mailman...
• social neighbors have a tendency to want to get into your business That is a trait that many in my country (Canada) see as a USA thing. I absolutely do not mean this in an insulting manner, and I know that all generalizations are false (heh), but the puzzling (to me) offering of unsolicited advice, however well-intentioned, strikes me as something most likely to emanate from a person from that country to the south of the United Provinces and Territories of America. I wonder if, say, New Zealanders feel that Aussies are that way, for example, or if this is a unique typecasting thingey.
• or if this is a unique typecasting thingey Nah, I think it's culture-dependent. There is a serious neighbor culture here in l'America, which I'm assuming is a holdover from when people lived in sparsely-populated areas and had to depend on each other for many things. With the autonomy offered in today's society, no one person needs to depend on his or her neighbors. People like me can go years without knowing the names of the people who live mere meters away. That's just how I like it. The bubbling-up of homeowners associations is an unusual neighbor-centric phenomenon. What could possibly be a less-neighborly act than to have a neighbor turn you in for having unmowed grass? Frost had it right: good fences make good neighbors.
• In parts of California, it's not seen as normal to know your neighbors, so I was not sure what to do when I moved to Oklahoma, and neighbors came around to offer any tool me might need and brought browies. I think it's pretty hard to characterize the whole country with any one stereotype, though specific stereotypes may have some validity in specific places if you look hard enough. It's kind of like a bunch of neighborhoods, scattered around most of a continent. But isn't the same true of Europe, and other conglomerated political entities. But, back to the subject of the thread. I haven't listened to the link, either, but I do have some familiar experience with bad cops. My nephew was arrested when the local sheriffs accused him of not coming to a complete stop at a boulevard stop sign a half block from his house. He claims they didn't turn on lights and sirens till he was in his driveway. They manhandled him from is car and maced him, then, when his aunt came out of the house to find out what was going on, one of them grabbed her by the arm and thew her several feet across the yard. The problem with Mace is that it doesn't let you breathe. The cops put my nephew in a police car and left him there while they finished up other stuff. He was convinced he was going to suffocate, and kicked at the car door to get someone's attention. Luckily, he survived, but he was charged and convicted of damaging a police car. But, well, this was in Bakersfield, California, where the current sheriff thought it was really funny to replace "protect and serve" decals which said "we're gonna kick your ass" for a photo op which was circulated on the internet a year or so ago. And the worst of it is that I found a news story that backed that up a couple of hours ago, before my cable modem access went down and did in the comment I was composing, but it's gone now after several creative searches. Watch me trying not to be paranoid while the sheriff in question is running for re-election. On the other hand, I've had some very good experiences with good cops in my own corner of the world (Delano, CA, if anyone cares.)
• Good on ya, Wendell. And, Basil, I enjoy your use of the Aussie vernacular. You guys have an especially colourful and casual way of talkin'. Friggin' hard to do well, patois as text, eh? As for inequality and injustice in Merkin society, despite the avowed ideals of freedom and equal opportunity - 'tis the same the world over. (Not to say that we can't try to make things better). Humans, as social animals, seem to need hierarchy which inevitably implies the existence of inequality. Selfish consumption and lack of compassion are relentlessly portrayed as signs of success and strength in popular culture. Also, MoFites are obviously superior to and much cooler than MeFites.
• At least I'm not writing with a dialect Look, I'm sure dis fuckstick ain't writin like dis just to gets somes attentions. If I was to write likes dey talks here in Cheekago, youse guys would be accusin me of bein an attention whore.
• MORS AD INTEMPERANS!!!!
• I wan' ta ge' en on da takin' such as we'h do en 'dis parte o' da contrii. Seriously, it get's that bad in some places.
• Argg - I'm not sure why, but your argot is much more annoying than BasilDrak's. Unless, it's because I can sort of believe that's really the way he talks, but, well, as for you...don't think so.
• I think that knowing your neighbor or not is a regional thing in the US, too. My grandparents had wonderful neighbors. They didn't socialize, but they "did" for each other: kept an eye on each other's houses, brought in the mail when the other was on vacation, yelled at each other's kids. When my grandparents got a little infirm, the neighbors would bring the paper up to the porch so they wouldn't trip in the yard, and when the neighbors got sick my grandmother would make them dinner. My parents, who lived a couple of blocks away, never got to know the neighbors until our house was robbed. The robbers pulled up a moving truck to the garage and took *everything*. Since the neighbors didn't know us, they didn't know we weren't moving. The next week, my mom brought cake by to all the neighbors to introduce herself. When I got my first "real" place in Ohio, I expected to go meet my neighbors so we could have the same type of arrangement, and when I went over to introduce myself (and offer cookies) they looked at me like I was insane and carefully avoided me in the future. Only one neighbor, who was also from the South, was nice to me and we made sure the other was ok.
• I'm not sure why, but your argot is much more annoying than BasilDrak's Fucking A, it is. (It's a southwest side thing)
• g'day Wendo, yeah, i reckon yous lot on here are pretty bloody hotshit too. Said it before & 'll prolly say it again. A lotta real clever bastards'r on here, great sheilas & good blokes. Havin a missus like Wifey, who's sharp as a tack & twice as bloody good lookin, hadda brush up me act. Reckon that Tracicle's a bloody diamond fa gettin this place goin. if yous'r diamond, yous'll attract 2 typesa people, those who wanta own &/or wanta abuse the diamond or those who'r bloody diamonds too. Yeah, a lotta bloody dia-minds on here mate.
• Oh yeah, Oz's got a lotta the same probs as the Yew-essov-bloody-Arrgh. But i reckon we got a bit less aggro over-all coz women & men hadda work together in the first place just ta survive. The country's a lot harsher geographically than Yeww-ess. We got the Indiginies hassle, poor bastards. They never had booze or flu' or Leprosy, any of those Yoorup diseases (like IndigIndians in Yew-ess) so the booze, & diseases killed more Indigines than any bloody pasty-faced bloody arrogant Pommie bastard settlers ever did. Indiginese'v still got Hansen's Disease rampant in nth west Oz, glaucoma, all that nasty shit. But i reckon the Indiginies'v given us pasty faced buggers more'n we realise, & it crawls inta ya spirit whether yous like it or not. Politics'r different too, yous can call ya local MP a bastard to his face here. Okay, we put up with arsewipes like that Bush-likkin Howard but we don't bow down like yous poor buggers in the Yew-Ess. We'll get shot of this lot in govt here when they get too up emselves. & Calvanist bloody 'Protestant work ethic' crap is just another bloody excuse to avoid gettin involved, gives yous an excuse for bein bloody superior, judgemental & lackin compassion & gives yous an excuse to avoid havin ta make a choice about usin summa ya time helpin the other bloke. i like me nosey neighbors. Yous tell em ta piss off when ya need to, ya don't need to hurt the bugger's feelins or create shit, yous talk to the buggers. Bloody amazin what a good yarn over a beer'll do ta keep ya fences mended.
• Yeah too, & i grew up with a lotta Indiginies. Most of em couldn't speak 'English' but they knew how ta communicate better'n anyone i met anywhere. They spent a lotta time being bloody good ta me. That lonely bloody misfit kid in the bush is still a big parta me. Indiginies taught me to keep that kid in good shape for the resta me life. Between them & me rough-cut dad, me booze-raddled Unk and me bloody-minded shitty tempered mum, i reckon i learned how ta get along with pretty much any bastard, except a few I hadda king-hit a cuppla times here'n there a-corse. ;-D
• Mate. Please. Tone the okka down a little bit, would you? It's your schtick, and we understand. But we've got the message -- you're more Oz than Dorothy. Problem is, your method of communication is nigh on incomprehensible to many people, and simply unnecessary on these here intarwebs. You don't see our Singaporean friends affecting an Engrish accent, our Southern USAians pulling out the General E Lee, etc. So please. For love of the impression of the country you so obviously love -- drop the retarded Paul Hogan impression. Not even Hoges sounds like a demented oz-bot offscreen.
• Forgot, Ralpho-thedog, a bit of a nod on ya note, Oh, and by the way, thanks also for referring to our country as the "Yoo Ess of Arse-hole". Word choices such as that are always a good way to begin a civil discussion of cultural differences. Yous'r welcome ta call Oz whatever ya like, howabout 'scrub suckin scraggy arsed roo humpers'? Shit, forgot again, yous'v gotta be bloody fast ta grab the bloody roo or yous'll end up witha mouth fulla them brown nuggets.
• Well said coriolisdave. The points you are trying to make Basildrak are being lost totally in your overuse of the "Strine". Plus you can use spaces and paragraphs on the internet without worrying about the flies getting in your mouth.
• fishtick - "protestant work ethic" isn't a compliment, really. It's the thinking that makes people give up pretty much everything else for WORK. From .this article: "Calvin taught that all men must work, even the rich, because to work was the will of God. It was the duty of men to serve as God's instruments here on earth, to reshape the world in the fashion of the Kingdom of God, and to become a part of the continuing process of His creation (Braude, 1975). Men were not to lust after wealth, possessions, or easy living, but were to reinvest the profits of their labor into financing further ventures. Earnings were thus to be reinvested over and over again, ad infinitum, or to the end of time (Lipset, 1990). Using profits to help others rise from a lessor level of subsistence violated God's will since persons could only demonstrate that they were among the Elect through their own labor (Lipset, 1990). Selection of an occupation and pursuing it to achieve the greatest profit possible was considered by Calvinists to be a religious duty. Not only condoning, but encouraging the pursuit of unlimited profit was a radical departure from the Christian beliefs of the middle ages. In addition, unlike Luther, Calvin considered it appropriate to seek an occupation which would provide the greatest earnings possible. If that meant abandoning the family trade or profession, the change was not only allowed, but it was considered to be one's religious duty (Tilgher, 1930)." There's a broad streak of Calvinism in US society, and it affects folks of other beliefs. I, on the other hand, prefer a more balanced way of life.
• G'day Coriolisdave. Negative qualms friend. I'll do my best to write more 'comprehensible' English, and use appropriate sentence structure, grammar, syntax, etcetera. With a respecful request though, that the occasional severe outbreaks of 'strine' will be pardoned by all with compassion and understanding. ;-D Its gonna be bloody hard on the brain but, coz i think faster in 'strine'. Oh yes, and I shall also ensure that I make frequent use of "The Oxford Comma" in order to please the 'purists' of Monkey Filter. :-D No wukkin furries mate!
• I vote to let our dragon bee! Please note: Strine strikes this buzzerd's ear as fine For a fact no one's accent free and it's news to me that monkeys must write formally Lastly, this guy clearly likes draculs so he seems to fit in rather well with all us other fools
• I believe most policemen are decent, even idealistic: but all the same I wonder whether policing is one of those professions where the kind of person who wants to do it is not always the right person to do it. Maybe we should conscript people into the police force: it might or might not be good for them as individuals, but it would surely democratise and ventilate the police a bit.
• Cops in Australia don't have that great of a reputation, either. I would say that good ol' Queensland Pigs might give the biggest redneck cops in the US a run for their money. It was within this commentator's memory that Western Australian traffic cops wore jack boots & jodhpurs & strut around like king muck. Cops would move young people along if they congregated on the sidewalk in Perth during the 70s. It's much more relaxed now, since the bikies have killed off a few of 'em. :D
• Fer chyren out loud, leave the bloody Aussie alone about the accent you goddamn ad hominem assassins. Whoever dissed quid for being incomprehensible? bees for writing responses in poetry? tracicle for hurling mightly lightning bolts from the clouds? And what about GramMa and her haiku-like double spaced resposes compleat with stage directions? Or Chyren being an irritable cunt (who on this basis I absolve of shame for said actions). How shameful you monkeys. Time for everyone to get the lasagne out of your shorts and drop it in the mirror of patois, you freaks! One of us, indeed! Has no one read Irvine Welsh? James Joyce? Langston Hughes? Robert Burns? DBC Pierre? Why do we all have to write like Oscar Wilde, you Godwins? The community that once seemed so welcoming to me now looks like a bunch of jerks. This guy insulted the USA with compassion, not misanthropy. Whether misguided or not, I can comprehend that despite the drawling, which some of y'alls "queen's english" has masked from me, you sarcastic monsters. In the meantime: path, I agree.
• I think I'll move to the good ol' US of fuckin' A. It's such a nice place, except for those millions of bad apples, who aren't acting under orders (honestly, they're not) when they violate the dignity of other human beings. Cunts!
• "Has no one read Irvine Welsh? James Joyce? Langston Hughes? Robert Burns? DBC Pierre?" With respect, no one here is on the level of Joyce or any of those others. A bad analogy. And please do not call me a cunt for so trifling an issue. I can assure you that I have developed a device that allows me to stab people in the face thru' the internet.
• Which, of course, brings us to...
• Whoever dissed quid for being incomprehensible? Wha ... what are you saying?
• Anyway, I for one welcome BrasilDank's demotic and euphonious commentatory - and I think it's good for MonkeyFilter that Austrians such as he have joined our community. Sure - he does talk funny, what with all that "youse'r" and "ta" and "brown nuggets" - how we all laughed at his bizarre argot at first! But remember - the guy grew up speaking GERMAN - not American like the rest of us. AND THAT'S EXACTLY HOW THEY SPEAK OVER THERE YOU MORANS. So, I say "Ja, ja, jawohl!" to our new European comrade, and I will be dining on a delightful little bratwurst tonight in his honour. "Come on Österreich, come on, come on - come on Österreich, come on!" - that's what I say.
• gomi develops a crush on the quidnunc kid
• So please. For love of the impression of the country you so obviously love -- drop the retarded Paul Hogan impression. Not even Hoges sounds like a demented oz-bot offscreen. Coriolisdave, Bloody Hoges is a Sydneysider mate. If the bloke went further north from Newcastle before he made it big, it'd be a surprise. Sydders is not Australia. As for lovin the country, yeah, maybe, but theres a lotta places i bin at home in, & love. It's the people, not the place mate. I reckon nationalism/xenophobia & bloody religion are major divisive & destructive aspects of the 'human condition.' A buncha bullshit designed to manipulate populations so some dickhead psychopath can big-note themselves coz that's the only time the poor bastards feel anything. At the top of any organisation is where yous'll find the "successful psychopath." Uniforms are a dead give-away. Paramilitary orgs usin the same methods to create 'cohesive units'. Tear em down, build em up. Brainwashin stuff used by most, not all, military trainers/units. Religious orgs are bloody experts. Most Oz military (stress that 'most') choose to avoid that shit these days. You get a lotta stupid zombies who can't think for themselves. Bikies'r the worst I reckon. Buncha big girl's blouses, arsewipes who'r weak as piss without their 'brothers' ta back em up. Same with that gangsta shit. Might as well get around with clubs, dribblin mammoth stew. Azzamattarrafack, InsolentChimp, me best mate talks like a bloody Professor of Linguistics. He's learnin fast but there's nuthin funnier than 'strine' spoken by a bloke with an accent like bloody Prince Charlie. Irvine Welsh? James Joyce? Langston Hughes? Robert Burns? Oy, i read that lot. 'A Portrait of the Artist as a Young Man,' what a buncha wank that is. Rabbie's nae timorous wee beastie but! & what about that John Donne bloke eh? I gotta copy of his stuff in me dunny library. "The Flea Mark but this flea, and mark this, How little that which thou deny'st me is; Me it sucked first, and now sucks thee, And in this flea, our two bloods mingled be; Confess it, this cannot be said A sin, or shame, or loss of maidenhead,".. Yeah, gotta love that!
• I think it's "wunderbar" that you have read so many works of the classic English catalogue, and cry out to those who would critise you - in the words of one of your own country's venerated authors - "die waffen nieder!" Good work, my teutonic comrade!
• The weapons are down. Unbewaffnet und den Spaß genießend. Wie über Sie? Schließlich Österreich ermangelt aber ein ' a ' und ein ' L '. Mehr Berge dort auch. Είναι όλα τα ελληνικά σε με. :-D
• Best thread ever.
• "Sydders is not Australia." Alright, gloves off. This guy's not for real. Fire at will.
• gomi develops a crush on the quidnunc kid Hey hey - line forms back there, sister. wottaya mean 'ees not dead yet??
• Ere, hangon, hangon there Chyza, i meanta say, all Oz isn't like Sydders. Shit, i'm in bloody trouble now! Shit, & i bloody welded me iron hat & me bloody chest-plate inta a barbie grill. Hope yous'r a lousy shot mate.
• Monkeyfilter: Scrub suckin scraggy arsed roo humpers
• "Hey hey - line forms back there, sister." Indeed. Wraparounds are optional, but appreciated.
• y r u gin Bsl a hrd time? it cud B tht "phonetic" spling "obscures" his point. I dun thnk tht 2 mny mnkys wud fnd it EZ to tk prt in the "discourse" on th site if evry1 wr to spk in "text-message." How is ovr-use of "dialect" ne dif, if th rslt is th sme?
• I dunno what 'e's saying when 'e tuks lik thit, bit I seem t' spind a lot more time tryn' to enterprit 'is words thin I shud have to. Wich mins the point is lost in th' chattah. I think we were discussing something about...police? After a recent celebrity boxing event in Auckland, TV news cameras caught a police officer pepper-spraying a man who was handcuffed and lying prone on the ground. The incident is under investigation at the moment so any reasoning on the officer's part is unknown yet, but there seems to be a wider trend on the part of NZ police to excessive use of pepper spray. This may seem minor to Americans until you learn that in NZ, officers' weapons are always locked in the trunk of the police car so pepper spray is the option they have at hand.
• Great minds think alike moment: Our vice president likes to pepper spray, too!
• Tracicle's a Canuk?
• Or is it Africaan? I'm not sure, but English it ain't.
• The Americans have the police they deserve, these guys aren't some foreign garrison, they are drawn from the local population, and so are a reflection of it. America wants to have 23% of the worlds prison population, and no other country is better suited for the task, no other country could even afford it. And although the gap between the median and the average income gets larger, guys you are still rich.
• People with difficulty understanding the Basil, probably had reading comprehension difficulties as kids. In order to comply with disability regulations it may be necessary to keep things simple. Very simple. I jest.
• "y r u gin Bsl a hrd time? it cud B tht "phonetic" spling "obscures" his point. I dun thnk tht 2 mny mnkys wud fnd it EZ to tk prt in the "discourse" on th site if evry1 wr to spk in "text-message." How is ovr-use of "dialect" ne dif, if th rslt is th sme? AOL-Speek:The dialect of the internet.
• I think it's very easy for law enforcement folks to get burned out and jaded on the job, to the point where they can start to see everyone as the enemy. Not to say that all of them feel that way, but if you have some of that in your makeup to begin with it can grow harder to keep it in check.
• I guess it's just me, pretty much. While the great novel I've hated the most was Huckleberry Finn, because Twain's transliteration of black speech pissed me off so much, but for some reason, buried deep in my psyche, I kind of enjoy BasilDrak's adherance to his mission of writing the way he speaks. And, it's not that Twain didn't get it right, because I assume he did, but had to force myself to read the whole thing, both times that I did. The only explanation I've come up with is that Twain was trying to set down speech that he didn't actually use. I type this stuff in the way I speak. Even the typos may have some relevence. I assume most of us do that as well. But, I do love a bit of eccentricity, and BasilDrak seems a good hearted sort. I'd be happier if the Standard English nannies gave him a break. Insolent Chimp pointed out some of our well beloved who don't follow the road well traveled. And, he's right - we long-time members "grew up" with them in this arena, and are bereft when they disappear. But, if one of them signed up now, I'm not sure that they'd be welcomed by the majority. We do have room for the people who jog a a little to one side or the other and give us a new view, folks. There's no guideline here which says we should only speak as Mr.Knickerbocker prefers. And, if you have to spend a little time understanding someone who doesn't do the usual, think of it as easy steps to learning a new language, because I do think you get the drift, even if you're pissed that someone should dare to veer away from your mental test-books.
• "text" books. But there's probably some Freudian thingie there which makes "test" important.
• DNA tests must be made on BasilDrak to see if he is the seperated-at-birth (by several thousand miles) twin of MeFi's EtherealBligh. And I mean that in the most comlimentary way to both of hem.
• them.
• ...please do not call me a cunt for so trifling an issue. I can assure you that I have developed a device that allows me to stab people in the face thru' the internet. I apologize if I trifled and I already feel the pain in my eyes, but chyren you are a good cunt. And if you don't use the phrase "good cunt" in your neck of the globe, then try to find a translation that comes across something similar to "mischevious, clever bastard with whom I would like to identify." In my small corner of the nether we use cunt like aloha: it's either a good thing or a bad thing and, unfortunately, it takes some vocal inflection to decipher sometimes. So, please, take it as a good thing - that's what I intended. For the record and adding to your observations, I don't think anyone here writes like Oscar Wilde either; I metaphorically stand by my analogy.
• Wow. I ran out of wine, but this thread does the trick nicely. And in my locale (Denver), the police have been brought to heel by an Office of the Independant Monitor which is accountable to the public. Of course the ones who put the "rank" in rank and file are pissed, but people are watching. Also interesting is the fact that the Hispanic officers are suing the department for discrimination. No wonder tickets are up...
• ... And Chimp the Insolent and Chyren, I respectfully submit that in my "neck of the globe," the term "cunt" used even endearingly will earn you a stiletto to the testicles. Or maybe a mild reproof. Depends on the time of month ;P
• Stiletto Testicles was the name of my punk band.
• EtherialBligh used to post here under the name something like tmellis, but we haven't seen him in a while. but I'm not sure I see the connection. BasilDrak is much more upbeat.
• How very avant.
• Path, what are you referring to? I think it was kmellis, but surely you're not conflating him with our uberlinguist BasilDrak?
• Yeah, I was trying to avoid yelling about the use of "cunt." But, at least in the US, it's not a term you want to throw around. Though it strikes me as funny that a word for something much hungered for by guys is used as a really bad insult by those who are looking for it.
• cynnbad: I'm not, but wendell brought up the connection some comments up.
• OK. And BasilDrak, keep your bad self real, hear? You're a Popsicle in a sauna, you are!
• Anyone care to translate the original post posted by BasilDrak at 09:45PM UTC on May 27, 2006? I have a killer headache and fear trying would just add to it...
• you are a good cunt the ones who put the "rank" in rank and file Back in my radio daze, we would say that a certain female singer (to remain unnamed) put the "cunt" in "country." Man, I always wanted to say it over the air.
• Whether Basil is 'for real' or not, if you can follow the average MySpace or LiveJournal page, or comprehend the average MMORPG player, then you shouldn't have too much trouble understanding him. Believe me, if he was from Northern NSW or FNQ, and this was a podblog, then you might have a case, although I always wondered why your reality game shows often use subtitles for anyone outside of the US, when we are expected to understand the most broad accents without any problems.
• Welcome to pendanticfilter, good luck enjoying your stay.
• I have to say dj, for as much as I love British media, I can't watch films like The Lonliness of the Long Distance Runner or Trainspotting without subtitles. The same was true for most of the people in my British Film class. We just don't get the same exposure to the thicker accents and we share so few of the idioms that the dialog hardly makes sense even with subtitles.
• "I guess it's just me, pretty much. While the great novel I've hated the most was Huckleberry Finn, because Twain's transliteration of black speech pissed me off so much, " Bloody righton Path. "And, if you have to spend a little time understanding someone who doesn't do the usual, think of it as easy steps to learning a new language, because I do think you get the drift, even if you're pissed that someone should dare to veer away from your mental test-books." Double bloody righton Path! I write pretty much the way i talk, most of the time. I wouldn't say it's laziness, or arrogance. Part of the laugh in life I reckon. I'll give ya the drum mate, bin in more sitch's where me 'patois' has found me a lotta mates & a lot more bloody good laughs than aggro. One time i was stuck in East LA, didn't have a clue where the hell i was but turned out it was not a good place fa any pasty faced bloke to be. Mobba blokes standin around so i opened me gob & i said summat like, "G'day, where the fuck am i?" & all these heavy lookin blokes started pissin emselves laughin. I couldn't understand a bloody word they said but we ended up havin a few beers & them tryin to teach me 'ebonics', buggered if i could work it out. Those blokes ended up talkin 'strine' better'n me mate. A few more beers later & i got 'escorted' by about 20 blokes right to where i needed to get to. Coulda been a few less'n 20 i reckon, i was pissed as bloody newt by that stage, & fuck knows what those blokes were on along with the booze. I was laughin so much was hard put ta stop meself chunderin. Funny buggers. & yeah, goodnonya Path.
• Fair point on the idioms and some of those accents can be hard to understand if you are unfamiliar with them, Alex Aander. However, I am talking about subtitles for what was everyday, plain English spoken by an Australians from major cities. Really, it just serves to promote the notion that Americans are wilfully ignorant and that the "Oh, so you speak English" conversation between an American and an Australian is a reality rather than an entertaining joke.
• all I can say is some of us have been blinkered. But good night anyway. And please remember a soldier today.
• P.S. Yo, Path, I think Mr. Aussie Dude is crushin' on you. Details To follow, please.
• Well, my heart belongs to Chryren, and beeswacky and Alnedra, and Wolof, and Insolent Chimp, and Plegmund, and Quid, and MCT, and all the petesbest, and jb, and mothninja, and RalphTheDog, and kitfisto, and... pretty much every one here, but I'm always on the lookout for new crushes.
• One vote for "attention whore." But at least a somewhat enjoyable attention whore.
• We're all attention whores to some degree, so who's to complain?
• So, in the early morning of the day after, let me sum this up with a phrase that those of us in the midwest states of the old US of A developed early in this century to, well, sum things up while point out how simple the whole affair was to begin with... 'n Bob's your Uncle.....
• while "pointing" out, of course...
• Well, no, HB, I think a search will show that phrase to have originated in the slightly older UK. "Bob's your uncle" is a similar (but primarily British) way of saying "you're all set" or "you've got it made." It dates back to 1887, when British Prime Minister Robert Cecil decided to appoint Arthur Balfour to the prestigious post of Chief Secretary for Ireland. The British public, however, was well aware that Cecil was Arthur Balfour's uncle. In the resulting furor over an apparent act of blatant nepotism, "Bob's your uncle" became a popular sarcastic comment applied to any situation where the outcome was preordained by favoritism.
• an apparent act of blatant nepotism avunculism?
• NO DEFINITIONS WERE FOUND >>> PLEASE CHECK BRAIN
• you mean that Bob's your Uncle didn't originate in Michigan???? damn
• There, there, it's the only thing that didn't.
• Chy, check your email and your nephew. Yours avuncularly,
• Oh right. The light dawns slowly on the quidnunc kid, and the birds of stupidity wake in their nests and launch into the air. Anyways, despite my lack of normal reading, thinking etc ability, and with apologies to dear fish tick, and with both cheeks turning rosy red, I humbly say: Chy, please check your email, in which other matters are discussed.
• I'm confused, but not from Michigan.
• I'm an idiot. Anyway, how are you, fish tick?
• In fine fettle, thanks quid. Check your email.
• Monkeyfilter: We're all attention whores to some degree
• Oh, quid? I didn't actually send you any email, I just thought you should check for a reply from Chyren.
• No, he ain't replied. quidnunc sad :(
• I would be an attention whore if only I could find any paying clients.
• What'll you do for a quid?
• I'm more like an attention-deficit whore.
• He can ask for himself.
• I checked my email. Nobody loves me. *checks again* *checks again* *checks again* *checks again*
• Attention whore? Wot? Eh? drags out blonde wig. No one understands me! Shit, me dog ate me bra & the kid's pinched me black leather bum barers.
• as an american, i find basildrak's dialectics quite amusing. and it would totally make my day if we could get a scotsman or maybe a jamaican up in here, too. koko, quid- check your emails ;)
• Basildrak is writing Strine? I thought he was affecting a Southern American accent (ala the frightening tape I am listening to). Patois is all good and well, and delightly in fictional dialogue, but it does make diatribes hard to understand and makes me want to skip them (which I do). And any claim of "I can't be bothered to write proper" is a bit silly, since it takes way longer to write in phonetic patois than just to write. --------------------- back to the topic: What. the. fuck. Sorry for the curse, I try not to swear lightly. But this is disgusting. Every decent law enforcement officer on the planet should feel like retching to listen to something like this. This is disgusting - those cops are disgusting. Not just what they have done, but the way that they have perverted the authority and trust society has put in them. at least they have been/are being prosecuted. Two have been sentanced to 50 and 54 months, another could face 7 years (the one who drew the gun). but it's still not in the media. It should be -- because this is happening elsewhere, and it won't be caught there. My parents always trusted the police, and taught me to - but in my neighbourhood that wasn't always true, and it's behaviour like this that taints the reputation of all police. For their own sake, they should all want to keep the law clean.
• I believe most policemen are decent, even idealistic: but all the same I wonder whether policing is one of those professions where the kind of person who wants to do it is not always the right person to do it. Maybe we should conscript people into the police force: it might or might not be good for them as individuals, but it would surely democratise and ventilate the police a bit. posted by Plegmund at 09:13AM UTC on May 29, 2006 I actually worry about that a lot, especially as one of the few people I knew who aspired to be a police officer was a rather tough, somewhat sexist and macho man who wanted "to get the bad guys". I can't argue from anecdote, of course, but it seems to me that the police could definitely appeal to the wrong sort. It's also worrying that Canadian police unions are pushing for a more American-style agressive policing style, which assumes confrontation as the default. It's dangerous for all of us. Even the law abiding can find themselves on the wrong side of the law when suspicion and violence rules those whose job is suposed to be protecting and serving, not conquering.
• (Hey jb, I sent you a flickr testimonial. You go, girl.)
• Check your email, quid.
• thanks - I went a little crazy this month, though, what with the beautiful English summer, and I have to wait before I can upload more. I need to make them smaller. Are you going to finish your alphabet portraits? I love Z.
• jb: no, I ran out of peeps :( ft: don't make me email you, trick fish, or write a flickr testimonial about you. It is my new hobby.
• I have no idea what a flick-yer-testicle is, but I'm quite sure I don't need one. Thanks all the same. Congrats on the new hubby!
• OK, peeps. Where will you be when the lights go out? Johnnie's so long at the fair.
• quid, if you flick my testicle I'll moan for you. /desperate plea for flickr testimonials of which I now have: 0
• I wouldn't even know what to write in a testimonial, and I've been mightily tempted.
• I've heard that every person who writes a flickr testimonial gets a free chocolate donut. /true, really!