May 01, 2006

Vikings Are the New Zombie: Vikings v. Vikings; Vikings v. Indians; Vikings v. Misunderstood Monsters; Vikings v. Digital Monsters; Vikings v. Aliens; Vikings v. Their Wives [via]

We went through that post-9/11 period where zombie films filled our apocalyptic desires. After the 1990s zombie drought, we had a metric f**kton of zombie films (28 Days Later, Dawn of the Dead, Resident Evil, House of the Dead, etc), perhaps because they are the one genre that is inherently apocalyptic. The zombie films seem to be trailing off, now. Their replacement? Vikings! Why vikings? I have no pseudo-intellectual explanation for that. Suggestions?

posted by brundlefly 18 years ago
  • 'Tis interesting indeeed...however I must content that zombies will always be the new zombies. and...of course...I should know... You will notice of course, that they don't even think about pitting those sissy Vikings against a couple of hungry Zombies..
  • Yeah, but where's Vikings v. Snakes on a Plane?
  • Henry VI was a VI-King! Get it? Get it? Oh, damn, it's Monday again...
  • I'm with Bob on this. But if he even *whispers* "brains" at me, it's head-shot time.
  • Also: 28 Days Later, while a nice movie and all, was NOT a zombie movie. It was more aptly a plague movie. The "infected" were not dead, nor did they eat the flesh of the living, the two predominant characteristics of a proper zombie. /purist
  • And there's also Stoner Vikings vs. Death Metal Pirates. (Warning: YouTube, Blood Sweat & Tears)
  • Also: 28 Days Later, while a nice movie and all, was NOT a zombie movie. Oh, I see someone wants to start a flamewar. Purist? I call thee pedant! While the infected were not strictly zombies but living people infected with "rage," the plot structure is identical point-for-point with what is now known as the classic Romero zombie apocalypse film. All the themes are there. One doesn't even need to look that hard. So, Mister Nitpicky Hey-They're-Not-Actually-Undead-So-I'm-Smarter-Than-You, they aren't TECHNICALLY zombies, but the movie is in all meaningful senses a zombie film. Cribbed directly from Romero. /smarter than Fes
  • Flamewar! Flamewar! Flamewar! /provoking
  • I'm with the mct on this one. While not technically a zombie film, 28 Days Later fits the genre like a chainsaw fits a bloody stump.
  • you WISH you were smarter than I, but your rambling, ill-informed divertisement proves to all readers that (a) you are an anus, and (b) you known exactly dick about zombie movies. Just because a movie has thematic similariites to a proper zombie movie (and in 28 Days Later, those thematic similarities are general, to say the least) does NOT make it a zombie movie. 28 Days Later is far more akin to 1971's The Omega Man than anything Romero has done. So, nyah. Not a zombie movie.
  • zombie movie! zombie movie! zombie movie! zombie movie! zombie movie! zombie movie!
  • from the wiki for Omega Man: The Omega Man is a 1971 science fiction thriller starring Charlton Heston. The movie is based on Richard Matheson's 1954 novel, I am Legend. The screen play was written by John William and Joyce Corrington, and the movie was directed by Boris Sagal. It was filmed in technicolor with mono sound and ran for 98 minutes. The movie received a MPAA rating of PG in the U.S. This film would later serve as part of Alex Garland's inspiration for the screen play of the 2002 movie 28 Days Later. HA HA!
  • PART of the inspiration! Still a zombie movie! *gnaws Fes' arm*
  • Yeah, the other part was The Stand by Stephen King. When asked about if his movie was influenced by Romero, Garland replied: "George who? What are these 'Zom Bees' that you speak of? Are they like killer bees? Are they from Brazil? This is a totally different kind of thing, it's a plague movie, you see, like The Omega Man."
  • *removes Fes' arm, waves it dismissively*
  • I prefer The Last Man on Earth, an earlier adaptation of Matheson's novel, to The Omega Man. But neither can top the fun of ogling Christopher Eccleston in enjoying a fine film like 28 Days Later.
  • Also from the wiki entry: The film is Boyle's re-interpretation of the "zombie flick" genre ... While it seems that this falls into the zombie apocalypse category of film, Boyle has written that 28 Days Later is not a science fiction or horror film, but rather a drama. Indeed, the film's "zombie moments" are few and far between, and the bulk of the running time is dedicated to character study and building suspense. Garland may not have written a zombie film, but Boyle directed a film with definite zombie themes, albeit a little more sophisticated. Dawn of the Dead also focused on the characters, and 28 Days Later is a continuation of this trend.
  • Thematic similarities? How about IDENTICAL PLOT STRUCTURE?!?!?! OR DOES THAT ESCAPE YOUR PUNY MIND, YOU FERRET MOLESTOR??!?!?!??!
  • I continue to disagree. One of the overarching themes of the zombie movie is the everpresence of the zombies themselves, the sense of claustrophobia, the proximity of legions of vengeful dead. While at first in 28 Days Later, there seems like there ought to be a lot of infected about, all trying to get at the protagonists (they sort of go back at it later at the army base during the scene where the infected traverse the minefield), ultimately infected London is an *empty* London - Cieran whatsis walks around for hours after getting out of the hospital, yelling and carrying on, and doesn't get attacked until visiting the vicar. The whole crew knocks about the grocery store for an eternity, drivse around London unmolested (except for in the tunnel, which you could see coming about a mile away, like the candle-in-the-kitchen incident), even have a *picnic* near a horse pen, for pete's sake. Romero would have armies of zombies snarfling these knuckleheads out instanter. And, while I'm not sure what exactly the infected *do* to people when they catch them (seems 50/50 between "barf blood on their faces" and "beat them up with whatever's handy"), one thing they don't do is eat them. That's the other huge thing that zombie movies strike home about - the inherent sense of revulsion at the idea of being eaten. Further Romeroian themes - that of the "unclean death," of the disruption of social and familial ties, the underlying critique of commercialism - are barely even touched in 28 Days Later. I'm not saying 28 Days Later is a bad movie - it's not, it's a very good movie, but it ain't a zombie movie. And those ferret charges were dismissed, I'll have you know.
  • Monkeyfilter: 50/50 between "barf blood on their faces" and "beat them up with whatever's handy."
  • We're talking Vikings here! Not zombies! Back I say! Back! And let us remember that it was the Vikings who invented standup comedy. Not zombies.
  • What about zombie Vikings?
  • Well, really, any zombie movie is a plague movie, it's a subsection. 28 Days Later is pague movie that hovers more in the area of zombie movie, I'm sure the writer just denies it so their film can stand out from the wave of zombie movies that came up around the time of the film. I'm sure he and Boyle really did want to make a zombie movie. And Fes your description seems awfully specific, surely there's a little more artistic leeway in the genre. I bet we can agree to larger basic themes in Zombie movies. I'd say we can agree that in a zombie movie the larger world is much more unsafe than before the outbreak, people are forced to work with groups of complete strangers, and that zombies don't kill you politely. You hamtoucher.
  • Mr. Koko, my zombie movie expert, chimes in: "First, a movie can be more than one genre at a time. Yes, "28 Days Later" is a plague movie like "The Omega Man", but the plague produces zombies. So it's a plague/zombie movie, much like "I Am Legend", the book that "The Omega Man" and the earlier "Last Man on Earth" were based on, is a plague/vampire story. Second, what makes something a zombie movie? The presence of zombies. Period. Anyway, Romero does not define what is and what is not a zombie film. European zombie films like De Ossorio's "Blind Dead" series do not feature swarms of zombies, not are they cannibals. While there are swarms of zombies to some extent in Fulci's "City of the Living Dead" and "The Beyond", they aren't cannibals and they are not "everpresent" in "The Beyond".
  • *scratches back with Fes' arm*
  • Mr. Koko's brain sounds mighty tasty.
  • Omega Man *was* a Zombie Movie. In the book, there are zombies. Those crowds of .. uh .. underdwellers or whatever they were in the film (which I have not seen in 18 years) were probly.. based on.. uh.. /trails off
  • OK: Mr. Koko makes some good points vis. European zombie films (Fulci's work is, in many ways, as respected as Romero's within the genre) but here's where it breaks: what makes something a zombie movie? The presence of zombies. Period. So I ask the collective: WHERE, then, are the zombies in 28 Days Later?? Zombies by definition, even if they aren't necessarily peckish for flesh (hmph), are animated corpses - but the infected are not dead! This point is part of the entire denouement of 28 Days Later, where the camera pans over the now nearly dead from starvation infected lining the highway and woods surrounding the farmhouse. There are no zombies in 28 Days Later. Psychotic with the (heh) rage virus? Sure. Singlemindedly malevolent? Check. Dead? not so much.
  • Granted, zombie movies are a subset of plague movies, in that the zombie virus is usually inherently medical in nature, passed by blood or saliva. But isn't the idea of a subset indicative that there are more qualifying characteristics than the greater set? And I assure you, I have never touched a ham in any inappropriate way since I got out of the joint
  • Dammit: "Actually, I agree with him. If the infected in "28 Days Later" are not dead, and it sounds like he is correct, then they are not zombies. The film is more like "Shivers", "Rabid" and "The Crazies" then ... a plague movie." So .... how about them Vikings?
  • Also: "Tell them that unfortunately my brain is polluted with too much Euro-sleaze and is thus inedible."
  • I would take a broader definition of "zombie" when discussing it as a thematic element than just specifically undead -- IMO most of the horror of the zombie apocalypse film is the we-have-seen-the-enemy-and-he-is-us vibe, most loudly exemplified in those scenes when one survivor is forced to kill a loved one to survive (Shawn and his mum, for instance). What separates 28 Days (and other zombie films) from the larger class of plague films is that the plague turns humanity against itself, dividing us into two classes, Us and Them, by somehow mutating the "Them" into something that wants to kill us -- whether the albino wossits from Omega Man, the vampires from I Am Legend, the rage-infected people from 28 Days, or actual zombies from Romero. Also, pirates could totally kill vikings.
  • I agree with Fes, but would also be willing to compromise and call them "zombie-like creatures".
  • Here's something I didn't know: In none of Romero's films are they actually called "zombies". FACT.
  • but...the ninjas... they could kill the pirates.. /goes to catch lunch
  • Real zombies, such as from Haiti, where the term originates IIRC, are not actually dead. So..
  • Well, shit. Thanks a LOT, Chy.
  • FACT. Incorrect, IIRC. In the last, Land of the Dead, Dennis Hopper uses the word "zombies." I believe the line was very Hopperesque, something like "Zombies, man."
  • Shit! I'm going home.
  • Anyway, what about Invasion of the Body Snatchers and John Carpenter's The Thing? Those are alien invasion films, yet they share your "we-have-seen-the-enemy-and-he-is-us vibe" thingy. Hah!! In-your-face!
  • I think Mr.Tool has a point. In most zombie movies the only relevant division in the world is between the zombies and the few normal people left. A movie like Rabid for example couldn't be a proper plague cum zombie movie because there's still conflict between normal people and their government and the conflict between the infected and normal people is handled mostly by the millitary. In a true zombie movie it's all the humans against all the zombies. In The Thing the whole of humanity is not involved and thus does not fit the model.
  • And I have to say I'd like to see the second to last two movies in the original post. Haven't seen anything Roger Avary's done after Killing Zoe and vikings totally pwn zombies/pirates/ninjas.
  • mct, aren't vikings a sort of pirate?
  • A metro-sexual pirate is called a 'swishbuckler' Vikings shop at Ikea. Metro-sexuals I know shop at Ikea. Enough of a connection for me... Viking = Pirate.
  • pirates could totally kill vikings Avast ye scurvy primate! Vikings be the original pirates, the Ur-Pirates if you will. Of course, we prefer the term "sea entrepreneur"--but there you go. And while we're at it, please don't confuse Ur Pirates with Ice Pirates. Very different.
  • So, then, what would win in a fight: two zombie werewolves or a zombie viking riding a zombie dinosaur with a silver axe?
  • But what about the plague-infected alien Viking zombie middle managers from hell?
  • Anyway, what about Invasion of the Body Snatchers and John Carpenter's The Thing? Those are alien invasion films, yet they share your "we-have-seen-the-enemy-and-he-is-us vibe" thingy. Hah!! In-your-face! Actually, I've encountered more than one zombie film connoisseur who considers them to be zombie films along those lines. NPR actually did a piece on zombie films a couple of years ago whe 28 Days came out, and specifically cited both as zombie films. The main difference is how we're defining "zombie". As Chyren pointed out, the classic zombies of voodoo (see "White Zombie" and "I Walked With a Zombie") are not undead, but have been mentally enslaved, made to walk and act as if undead (with the exception that they are under the control of the master), as in many "non-zombie" examples you could cite. It's keeping that in mind as well as looking at the core elements of the archetypal zombie stories (both pre- and post-Romero) that make me widen my definition beyond "undead." However, I'm talking about it from a more thematic angle when I use that zombie definition. I don't consider anything outside of the undead or voodoo victims to be literal zombies, but I think their stories can be considered zombie films. In a true zombie movie it's all the humans against all the zombies. I'd dispute that, actually. See Romero for examples: the redneck assholes who kill Ben at the end of Night, the war with the bikers in Dawn, the scientists vs. the military in Day, and the rich vs. the poor in Land. It's a common theme in zombie film that even when the brain-eating bastards are trying to kill us, we still try to kill each other. mct, aren't vikings a sort of pirate? Do they have eyepatches? Do they say "ARRRR!"? Do they have parrots? No? Then NO!
  • I never thot I'd get to see pregnant zombies asploding c-section baby zombies with a Datsun monster truck... thanks, grover
  • Pirates should not be confused with Vikings because Vikings have names like Olaf Olaffsson, whereas pirates are named Jack, Jolly Roger and Pokey.
  • Hmmm.. /scratches chin Vikings engaged in piracy, but they didn't spend all their time doing that, the majority would be farmers & such like most of the year. Proper pirates never really did, unless they retired with their booty & bought land.. there comes a blurry area where you have pirates that ruled parts of the caribbean or were installed as governors & such.. but strictly speaking, Vikings are not pirates.. being a Viking is cultural, whereas being a Pirate is a career option. :D So the match up is an interesting one, because who would win? The latter-day pirates have better sword metal & flintlocks, plus larger ships, but the Vikings have berserker fighting & big axes, + quick & stealthy ships for hit & run tactics. This is indeed an interesting .. er.. thing.
  • Pokey? Oh yeah, Dread Pirate Pokey.
  • And while the pirates are pouring sherry and raising their spirits faint according to their custom old, with quip and quibble quaint, and laying sobbing upon the rocks, the Vikings would come in and kick their asses.
  • Pokey Reese was a Pirate.
  • Exactly!
  • I never would've guessed something that good could have come this year, grover (re: the zombie link). Looks exactly like something from the people who did the Metal Slug series. Soup herb.
  • From my book on Vikings: The ultimate in sea-heroism is depicted in the Icelandic Saga called the Jomsvikinga saga. The Jomsvikings were a close-knit band of mercenaries feared for their fighting prowess. At one point, seventy of them were captured and faced beheading. The Jomsvikings obliged with a show of nonchalant bravado. One asked his colleagues to watch carefully to see if any spark of life remained after his head flew off. Another asked to be struck by axe full in the face, so that all could see that he did not pale....
  • All I know is that when I saw 28 Days Later, I was fucking terrified. "ARGH!" I said, "They're ZOMBIES, and they're FUCKING RUNNING!" One thing I did not say to myself was "They're PLAGUE VICTIMS, and they're FUCKING RUNNING!" Which says two things -- first, that the identification of zombies as zombies is not a set definition, but rather a primal response along the lines of Jungian archetype of the unconscious collective, and second, that the said identification as zombies is fluid and kinetic (in that the fact that they were FUCKING RUNNING did not preclude they're being FUCKING ZOMBIES, fer FUCKSSAKES). And as for Pirates vs. Vikings? Minnesota would totally pound Pittsburgh into the dust, unless Pittsburgh could get a jump on Minnesota with a few quick smashes of the bats. But even so, those linebackers are pretty tough, and the ballclub would only get in one swing. My money would totally be on the Vikings.
  • they're = their. I haven't eaten enough brain this morning.
  • My book on pirates says: Captain Bartholomew Sharp and his buccaneers plundered ships and villages off the coast of South America. In April 1680, his group attacked three Spanish warships. The buccaneers who were in canoes rowed to the windward side of the largest ship. Using long-barrelled muskets, they shot the helmsman and the crew working the sails. They rowed up under the ship's stern and with further accurate shots cut through the mainsheet and brace, the ropes controlling the mainsail. And then they wedged the rudder, disabling the ship entirely. The ship's crew surrendered and the pirates went on to capture the other two warships. The 68 buccaneers had defeated a force of 228 Spanish seamen.
  • Hyperkinetic zombies add drama and thrills, but do not change the underlying assuptions. The zombies in the Dawn remake, as well as all the Returns of the Living Deads (your basic brain-eaters), were all sprinters. Hell, the brain-eating zombies could *talk*, while the Romero tradition was just groaning and, more prevalent lately, hissing and mewling.
  • That's some fine shooting, StoryBored.
  • well not to get all pedantical on yr asses but historically speaking the "age of piracy" covers a certain time range, approximately 1650-1725 (viz David Cordingly's Under The Black Flag) Conversely, the era of the Viking raids ran from the end of the 8th cent. AD to perhaps as late as the early 11th cent. depending on yr assessment. Although they shared certainly obvious traits, in fact, vikings and pirates had very different motivations and goals when they set out to sea, so I would have to agree that they are NOT one and the same, and I think the Vikings would kick Pirate ass, even though I love Pirates.
  • "The buccaneers who were in canoes rowed to the windward side of the largest ship. Using long-barrelled muskets, they shot the helmsman and the crew working the sails." Pfft. Attacking people in a canoe when you have muskets is one thing. Carrying your ships overland to the Black Sea to attack Constantinople, Jerusalem, or Baghdad with nothing but a battle-axe is another.
  • As an aside, I would just like to add that I once hit on Jennifer Baxter -- Zombie No. 9 (i.e. the Hot Zombie) in the new Land of the Dead. Total crash and burn, which was to be expected, what with her being married and my being a total knob, but still. Opportunity knocked, if only to play 9 doors.
  • Ok, it's like rock-paper-scissors. Pirates easily defeat Vikings on account of superior naval technology and gunpowder. Vikings beat ninjas because of berserker rage. Ninjas defeat pirates because pirates are always falling down drunk and basically miserable swordsmen except maybe the captain. Seriously, they've got scurvy. They're cheese. Zombies, however, kill everybody, because clerics are not and never will become an innernet meme. That is all.
  • heheh bravo
  • Adult only Vikings:
  • OOOOkay, I read the FAQ, so let us try this again: Adult Only Vikings
  • I am in love with this thread.
  • By the way, if you type Viking Sex into Google you can find some VEEEERRRYYY disturbing stuff.
  • My book on zombies says: Wait, I have no book on zombies.
  • I think Mexican wrestlers might be an option, they could be a new meme. They have those.. cool masks & everything, & unfeasibly appear in sci fi movies.
  • Mexican wrestlers... from the future!
  • Lucha libre even fight Spiderman
  • I would like to see some mexican wrestlers on pirate ships attack vikings (maybe the vikings should wear clown suits???)
  • Now you're just being ridiculous.
  • But where do the ninjas come into it?
  • Oh, and what do pirates pay for corn? A BUCK AN EAR.
  • /COLLAPSE
  • OK, WOAH here, people. HOLD UP. We're missing something. Missing something vital & important. Midgets.
  • Did you hear what that new pirate movie was rated? Arrrrrrrrrr!!!
  • Corn... Pirates... Buck... *delayed spittake*
  • defeated a force of 228 Spanish seamen Hey, he said seamen!
  • Mexican wrestlers and midgets. Yes. Nuns? Shriners?
  • No Scandanavian berserker, Latino grappler, seafaring sword-wielding swashbuckler or Asian possed of the fu, dead or undead, would be any match for a pissed-off Pict.
  • El Santo!
  • [picture of topless woman holding "Like Zorro!" sign removed by tracicle, all complaints to her blog, etc]
  • Boobies? On MoFi? Qu'est-ce que fuck?
  • this thread has EVERYTHING!!!
  • i like zombies
  • I recently learned that those sort of nipples are referred to as "canadian bacon" ew.
  • Hey watch what you say teh Canadian, or the lard mountain come you way.
  • "canadian bacon" Gosh, now I'm... hungry.
  • I don't love this thread so much any more. Sigh.
  • sorry trac... /goes to corner
  • *clutches cardigan collar, makes sour face*
  • Mmmmmmmmmm.... Canadian bacon...
  • Jeebus, Skrik. WTF.
  • ok, I no longer blame myself. I blame skrik.
  • *imagines how kick-ass "viking ninja pirates" would be struggles to picture their outfits*
  • [picture of topless woman holding "Like Zorro!" sign removed by tracicle, all complaints to her blog, etc] LIEK Zorro, it said. Makes all the diference, you know.
  • I thought it did, but I went the safe route. Now back to your regularly scheduled VikingPirateZombieNinjas!
  • All that from one comment? ...I love MoFi.
  • BASTARD VIKINGS STOLE MY POUTINE
  • BASTARD VIKINGS STOLE MY POUTINE Illegitimate vikings? Good, I'm in the clear then. *Dusts off his family tree showing definitive viking lineage*
  • So, posting a close-up picture of my angry cock with a viking helmet is out of the question, then?
  • As long as it's a legitimate cock, I think we're okay.
  • Nonono, implied cock.
  • Yes he is.
  • Legitimate implied cock?
  • MonkeyFilter: And I assure you, I have never touched a ham in any inappropriate way. MonkeyFilter: Being a Pirate is a career option. MonkeyFilter: I don't love this thread so much any more. If zombies, Vikings, midgets, and aliens were real, they would so kick ALL your asses.
  • Midget zombie Viking aliens? Hell yeah.
  • Vikings are real. They're just not going to the Super Bowl anytime soon.
  • Best movie concept ever, or bestest movie concept ever? This isn't entirely surprising and fits comfortably with the Weinstein's reputation for being dismissive of genre films. For example they released Diary of the Dead under this label into a whole of 42 theaters... To be fair, those 42 theaters got a little stupider as a result. I love Uncle George, but pee-yew.
  • Sounds like we'll need to scour the theaters to see it.
  • Damn, it's not in my neck of the woods fjord.
  • I think he's just pissed at the unwanted nickname "Technoviking"; he's so Metal, not Techno.
  • For the record, I wish SOMETHING would become "The New Zombies", maybe something like: Zombeavers.