March 09, 2006

• So, their book tells them to respect atheists, right?
• I've had mixed feelings to the outcry over the port sales. On one hand, sure there's xenophobia involved in the public reaction to the port sales. However that doesn't mean that there may not be a legitimate security issue in the sale as well.
• This just in - Dubai company says they will sell to an American company. This just unreported: Aministration caves to pressure.
• I think that the accusations of "bigotry and racism" in the first article are a facile and dismissive way to discuss the question, and I feel that it does a disservice to the debate. I'm very confident that if it were merely a company FROM Dubai rather than a company OWNED by the UAE's government this issue would have fizzled out long ago. There are definitely opponents to the deal that have religious bias (call it bigotry if you wish) as a prime motivator, but it is also foolish to dismiss out of hand several important facts about all of the governments in that region. When it suited the wealthy and powerful (from the UAE, and most especially Saudi Arabia), they encouraged the growth of radical fundamentalism in their nations. Devout believers who feel that poverty and martyrdom are the highest spritual expressions of humanity are less likely to call for the redistribution of wealth in their nation. While the Saudi royal family was spending a lot of money on schools in order to indoctrinate acceptance of poverty into their lower classes, they underestimated how that sublimated desire would pop up into violence. The UAE is not innocent of this, and I feel that most governments in the region are doing far too little far too late to stop the more violent splinters of their fundamentalist cause. Furthermore, there is a serious problem with the UAE's governmental recognition of the Taliban in Afghanistan - full diplomatic recognition of such a regime is a tacit approval of their actions. The UAE's government has no place in running American ports. For that matter, NO outside government has any place in running American ports. Juan Cole is doing a profound disservice to those who support the deal by claiming that those opposed to the deal are racist.
• a growing proportion of Americans are expressing unfavorable views of Islam, and a majority now say that Muslims are disproportionately prone to violence, according to a new Washington Post-ABC News poll. Is that "bigotry and racism", as the article suggests, or is it a rational and reasoned response to seeing the riots and bloodshed over Danish cartoons?
• Is that "bigotry and racism", or is it a rational and reasoned response to seeing the desecration of mosques and abuse of innocent Muslims in the US as a response to 9/11?
• Well neither response seems "rational and reasoned" to me, but both do seem understandable but deplorable.
• It is "bigotry and racism," but it is also an understandable response to seeing riots, bloodshed, desecration, and abuse. The public responds to what it is fed. The various news and media agencies are the ones feeding us, and they decide what we are going to see. There is a whole world of events going on out there, and you know we're not getting it all in the ten minutes between sports and weather. And all the news is really feeding us is something to provoke an emotional reaction and keep us tuned through the commercials - or clicking through the ads, as the case may be.
• Armaghetto, I'm not by any means justifying desecration of mosques and abuse of innocent Muslims, but you have to agree that 9/11 and a bunch of cartoons in a Danish newspaper are hardly equivalent provocations.
• I'm very confident that if it were merely a company FROM Dubai rather than a company OWNED by the UAE's government this issue would have fizzled out long ago. If I was an american citizen, what would fuckin' flare me up would be not the company's country of origin but the cozy relationship of said country government and involved company with my own government higher-ups' members, family and friends.
• Yeah, I'm peeved about that too, Flagpole. Bush sure is trying to out-Harding Harding.
• I'm not peeved about that. I'm peeved about our Governments non-chalant stance on American businesses becoming increasingly outsourced and foreign owned, some of that due to our own Governments massive spending weakening the dollar. We wouldn't HAVE to sell these ports if we weren't afraid of foreign investors realizing that the dollars they hold are only good for buying American infrastructure, not American products. A strong economy IS a national defense issue. I don't think they get that. They've been selling and selling and selling our security with one hand while promising to protect it with the other. As for Dubai Ports World, they aren't going to make us any less secure than we already were. It doesn't matter who controls the ports if customs isn't doing its job.
• equivalent provocations, certainly not. reasoned and measured responses, certainly not. judging the whole for the actions of a few? yeah, i dunno if i'll knee-jerk call that racism or bigotry, but it's certainly very narrow-minded.
• I think the response to 9-11 was reasoned. It was the response to "terrah" as a general concept that wasn't. Bombing the Taliban into non-existance was VERY, VERY reasoned and appropriate. Would do again and buy the DVD and a t-shirt. The fact that 9-11 was appropriated as an excuse for every concievable questionable action doesn't make it the motivation.
• I guess the cartoons were the same. The reasoned and appropriate response to the cartoons was about 3 letters to the editors. The embassy bombings are motivated by something entirely different. Either that or the people doing it are utter, utter morons. I can't tell anymore.
• I have to agree that I'd have a problem with a company owned by any other nation's government. I also have a problem with the government trying at every turn to terrify us into believing that terrorists lurk everywhere, in order to keep us docile over any questionable action, then not realizing in any way that doing this deal as quietly as possible would not upset the american people when it got out.
• Well it was owned by Britain... where the outrage? We don't own our own ports? WTF! I don't see the difference in owner matters so much since customs is still the one responsible for security, and they are not going to ship in workers to man the American ports, and Dubai Ports World is not a wholly owned subsidiary of Al-Qaida Jihad Front International, contrary to what the likes of Bill O'Falafel or Fox news may think.
• Actually, Mord, it was a British company, not the British government, that owned it.
• Obviously, very few British companies are owned by their government. Does that guarantee that they will have no 'terrists' working for them? That they can't be bribed?
• Same with U.S. companies. Again... CUSTOMS.
• But the point is that the Dubai company is owned by the government. Sure, a terrorist can work in any job in any company at any time. It's more about giving up control over key points of access to another country's government.
• Lara's point is exactly what I was getting at. As I said above, if it were just a company from Dubai and not a company owned by the government, this would, as far as I'm concerned, probably be a very different conversation.
• I would think another government would be saver than a bunch of individuals who are essentially unaccountable and can't be bombed.
• ^ safer.
• I mean, the problem isn't who controls it, its do you trust them. You obviously don't trust Dubai. I don't trust anybody.
• via CNN, no story yet: BREAKING NEWS President Bush says he's concerned about message that reversal of Dubai ports deal sends to U.S. allies, particularly in Middle East. What.a.fucking.douchebag.com
• If he was concerned, he'd have thought the whole thing out before he went ahead and did the deal.
• If anyone can say with a straight face that George W. Bush gives a GOD DAMNED FUCK what the rest of the world thinks, I'll crown them stupidshit du jour of teh Internets (not including Poland). This is just more outrageous bullshit lying and posturing, in this case for his footsie buddies in Arabia.
• (I trust the state owned BBC, for example, a damn sight more than corporate sponsored ITV, for news. But Mord is right, I don't trust anyone either.)