February 17, 2006

• (Oh and the hard boiled detective novel developing in another thread also caused this!!) Which thread is that, she asked curiously.
• I haven't been this confused in hours. I am intrigued by the phrase "sex en masse", but the rest of your post doesn't make sense to me, fly.
• Yup. Doesn't make sense to me either. Have you missed some words, sentences or ideas out of this post?
• Actually i probably have missed hundreds of words thoughts and ideas - kinda done a strange leap of logic for which i apologise. Been a little 'grasshopper brain' tonight - yes, leaps but it does make sense eventually. Thank you for pointing out - let me see if i can make sense.....
• You might want to place some of your urine in a ziploc bag and send it to the lab for analysis.
• Tried that bernockle - they sent it back as unknown species.....
• Ok sex en masse comes from the article i was reading which sadly i cannot find online to post at the moment. Maybe an Oz monkey can help out. Basically it was about 'raucnh culture' alongside it online were the standard are you lonely dating tyoe things and i went walkabout........
• agh should read raunch - as in where it is alright to meet someone in a bar take him out the back and give them a bj whilst expecting nothing in return - anyway - yeah shaggy dog - followed a few links along the way and ended up in the inevitable meet new friends on line dating or just intimate friendship stuff and basically was astounded by the number of 'attached' men/women looking for ;intimate relationships' which got me nusing about adultery which got me searching which has lead to this blither - .... Feel free to comment on whatever wherever however i think i am really asking about the state of ????? Take it where you will.....
• ...the state of ????? Well. That clears that right up.
• Well, it is not Adultery if these 20-somethings who are doing things with the BF are not married. It is just messing around in a way that makes us twice-their-age-and-feeling-kind-of-old-somethings look askance. Right?
• Um i dunno which is perchance why i have so confused about this post - i started out with a very clear direction and read too much on the way in......
• As i said i ended up in the vagaries of what seemed multitudes of married M and F searching for 'intimate' relationships in various websites - i guess that lead to thoughts of whether or not adultery or infidelity if you prefer is more prevalent now that it has been before or whether it is simply more open....based on what seems to be in all the papers and ads and news?
• Fly? Ethelyne. Ethelyne? Fly.
• And Earwax you can add it all in - However in my musings i have also been wondering about some of the websites i have visited in the meantime - i have posted one and as i said there are a hundred more - this is one of the less nasty - others solicit fees and yet others say - if you are wondering then it is so - too much philosophocal confusion for one evening i suppose - however if anyone has any thoughts or ideas from whichever angle or wherever around this whole topic - start talking - i have led myself into a mental web....... Where does cheating start and monogamy leave off in the wolrd of text messages and e-mail - where do you stop trusting where does raunch when you are ' only kiddin' with youf gf come in??? Too many questions too little time!
• Fly, I must say you are having some real difficulties with the coherence thing today, but that's alright, I think I have some idea of what you are thinking about... as strange as it can seem, social behaviors are subject to 'trends' or 'fashions' just like clothing, or slang, or hairstyles. right now there is a fairly wide-spread (pun?) phenomenon (at least in US urban areas) of polyamory/nonmonogamy/open relationship/non-trad relationship structure being explored with a lot of openness. what's interesting about it is that this trend also seems to be very prevalent in the teen 'dating' community. kids are apparently exploring open relationship/casual bi-sexuality/nonmonogamy right now, as are many adults. its popular right now, so many people who might otherwise not consider it are giving it a whirl. I am one of those adults, not motivated out of the trend, altho perhaps a contributor to the trend's existence! much like the trappings of BDSM were 'mainstreamed' and 'popularized' in the regular media and culture in the '90s (by agents like Madonna, among others) it would seem that a similar move from 'underground' to 'mainstreamed' is occuring around ideas of nontrad or new structures for romantic and sexual relationships. the 'trend' will eventually die down, but I suspect it will have lasting consequences in making these concepts more familiar and acceptable to people than previously.
• Yo no comprende tampoco.
• as in where it is alright to meet someone in a bar take him out the back and give them a bj whilst expecting nothing in return Uh... Which bar? /pad and paper.
• Thankyou Medusa - yes i just wish i could have put it in words so easily - apologies for incoherence tonight - life has been a little hectic - but i have missed MoFi and sometimes this is the best place to get musing answers. I guess that is what i have been trying to ask in some smal way althgouh also wondering about the wider trend in the older allegedly monogamous
• "Feel free to comment on whatever wherever however..." When do we start the sex en masse? If I'm getting this correctly, you kind of want to talk about the loosening of morals today, from people thinking casual sex is ok, the raunchier the better, to the fact that fewer and fewer people remain in faithful, monogamous relationships. I think that every generation has expressed these same feelings. Is there a difference between "Oh, the loose youth of today are showing their ankles!" to "Oh, the loose youth of today are having orgies in the McD's bathroom!"? Absolutely. I think that with the freedom with which we now share information, trends catch and build faster, especially among the young. Nothin' new under the sun here, though. A link to the article you're talking about might give us something more concrete to discuss.
• Nickdanger - apparently at many bars in Sydney this is now the done thing - if you like the girl she wants power and that is her way of maintaining it - done over and seeya on the dance floor maybe buddy!!!! Oh but it is blase if you are over 19 - been there done that......
• Um Lara, no i'm not really on about a loosening of morals - more curious about where others draw the line i guess. I'm not one to criticise seeing as i have a nasty tendency to see humans as animals as opposed to moral beings ( I still expect them to know right from wrong i guess but not in terms of artificially imposed Victorian morality when it comes down to biology) Yeah okay strange a little but....Unfortunately my idiot musings from tonight come from multiple articles including the you will burn in hell ones from the various churches!!! I'm not looking for concrete more just ideas from people if you like - a little esoteric i guess but not impossible....
• if you like the girl she wants power and that is her way of maintaining it Sorta like Popeye swallowing canned spinach, wot?
• A girl giving a blowjob to a stranger to maintain her power is laughably backwards and assinine. However, I certainly don't want to discourage the practice. Something about looking a gift whore in the mouth...
• That's how I've maintained my vast power base. Oh, wait...
• ok guys i think now you are starting to see the beginning of the musing - start adding why so many late 30's early 40's married with children 'don't want to disrupt my life' types are trying to buy into it - i guess not so hard or maybe your paths don't lead you into such despearate websites as mine? - Oh and bernockle - more like ethanol than ethylene and oh - they diagnosed my fluids - i am a Foy.......
• Meh. Methinks these tales of ribaldry are a bit of an exaggeration. Sex sells and makes for good copy. I'm quite willing to be that only a small minority of teens/20-somthings/whatever are involved in this sort of thing, and the >95% or so that are left still continue along in recognizably ordinary, boring, standard relationships (sexual or otherwise). Reading this thread hurts my brain. I wouldn't want to see the inside of your head, Fly.
• Bet. I'm quite willing to bet, not be. What I'm willing to be is entirely another matter, and quite out of my control, the universe being what it is.
• Don't know woy there's no sun up in the skoy Stormy weather. i am a foy it does make sense eventualloy Stormy weather.
• Any stories of "kids these days" are veritable WMDs and I will not beleive that they exist untill I see them or find verifiable evidence that they exist. In my opinion stories about "these damn kids and how messed up they are compared to our generation" should be filed under: panics, moral.
• Ah secund that 'un, jccalhoun.
• I just don't understand the kids these days...
• You kids get out of my K-Y tree!
• You're right fimbulvetr i don't want to see the inside of my head right now either - i was just looking to generate some discussion - if you want to take the journey for yourself - follow it through to the dreaded internet dating sites - it has been a revelation and for anyone who is wondering - i have an SO and i am studying. Fish tick - close but not as good as the original groany pun - full marks for anyone who gives me the author and short story - oh and original publication date ( Yeah okay not fair....)
• Besides i am still curious....... Why do we need to hang our opinions on a definite post - i could add about 100 christian/divorce/sleazy PI ads here none of them would make the slightest difference to the central although not clearly asked each would seek only to make money -who would why and where????? Or who wouldn't why and where not???? Also admittedly every one of those posts would be looking to capitalise on someone elses misery. Besides other posts go off rail - hey this one can't because there is no rail.....
• In truth i am not looking for the kids these days angles - i am far more interested in the married 30 and 40 sonmethings who have "broken ranks' if you lkike - i am sorry if i have given the wrong impresssion and also keep zipping out and in - It was simp;y the teen article that got me wondering if it was related to the other angle - sometime soon i will start to make sense if i am lucky although they say daethy divorce and moving house are the 3 nost streddful factoras in life - one can now add moving house computger sulking no monkeys not even while lurking!!!!
• Anyway in truth i am curious - No panics - moral no kids these days - i know who i am and what i am like - i wonder how relevant my particular morality is (and no it cannot be prescribed to any doctrine only that of Darwin with a smatter of overlaid christianity - upbringing wins out. However although nuch has been answered no-one has yet attempted why is there so much attempted cheating within apparently the 'satisfied " >
• Well, I'm glad we cleared that up.
• Fly- forbidden fruit is always more tempting than the bananas within reach.
• *blinks* *drinks more coffee and goes back to stroking kitty #2*
• I'm confused again.
• Fish tick not necessarily - hell most of us know the bananas taste good and today we aint gonna expend anymore energy necessary than to get the closest..... For the rest of the monkeys add comments as you feel free whether they be about my incoherence - infidelity, sex lives of teenagers you have known (ok Maybe not!) - i don't know - you are all correct - the question is not formulated but sometimes if you don't have all the data you don't know which question to ask............. Then again if you don't have the question then you know not which data to seek!
• Once again upon reading a Mofi thread, I find myself frustrated and itchy. "Looking a gift whore in the mouth." Heh!
• Ok i am sorry i have had a few weeks off work to link ideas in my head and have theories - it all started with a person who had moved cities and was looking to try and find people of their own kind.... In their naivete they thought that people of both sexes were offering friendship - in reality it turned out to be mostly sexually based - i mean sight unseen??? - thus began the musing on all the ads which lead to wondering if the modern alleged teenage culture as reported had anything to do with it?? Yeah ok that will be the sociologist speaking - than following on from that was a wondering about the dheer number of responses from amrried men ( oh and i will add married women" and thus to adultery - so i have had weeks to think about it - sit back relax and think about it for yourselves. Tell me instead how it is - or how it should be?
• kittenhead i believe after reading last weeks press i can give you an address to deal with that!!!!
• fly, you seem to be bringing up some interesting points and questions but its so difficult to read your posts right now and parse out the meaning. do you think you could slow it down a bit? I would love to get into this topic more with you but its a little too much effort in its present form. just slow it down, if you can :)
• "What I'm willing to be is entirely another matter, and quite out of my control, the universe being what it is." Remind me to loan you some of my Kierkegaard.
• Ok Medusa i will - in truth - i have been working for about 17 hours today and i am dead beat but this question has been bubbling for sooo long..... Will it be possible to keep it going? It is hard to post for it as there are so many that are relevant yet not anyway.....
• I yam what I yam.
• Just post some porn, dammit!
• On topic?: www.ashleymadison.com
• I am a 30something with a bunch of 20s/30s/40s married friends who are ahem, actively exploring degrees of openness in their relationships. why dont you try directing simple questions at me re these issues. sorry to hear you are so slammed!
• "I yam what I yam." Well, Soren might disagree to some extent. In popping the Spinach, Popeye chooses the Existential leap. He chooses to go beyond the prescribed limits of society, and live out his full potential, to live on all four floors of the Kierkegaardian house. So, yes, "I yam what I yam", but even Popeye can realize the full capacty contained within him, by choosing to make the Leap over the Abyss. Were he to simply abandon himself to his present condition, and resign himself to what an indifferent society has chosen for him, he wouldn't crack open the spinach can, fimbulvetr. So while "I yam what I yam" may be a true statement, it's true only because our potential to embrace the Leap is already contained within us. If "I yam what I yam" is mere a statement that "this is my nature and I can embrace the status quo", then Popeye shows that to be false. IMHO, anyway. It's Friday afternoon. My mind is wandering... And the women are about to lace up against the crafty Finns...
• it seems there is a whole industry devoted to this I think I speak with some authority when I say; "Yes". Thank God for monogamy. It'll make my student loans go away some day.
• When do we start the sex en masse? I think we did that over in the Cupidinous George thread. Can we get a mop and bucket in there?
• fly: Perhaps you could put together a Powerpoint presentation for us. This ought to be good...
• *scanned entire thread* Ohhh, I need to catch some air. And I've got a headache. Top of the head things I can somment: Young adults today have more information available. So it's obvious experimentation starts earlier, and the lines between sex and love and relationships become blurry. Of course, the whole 'hypersexual youngsters' media scare, with the widespread orgies and suchs are mostly exaggerations that sell newspapers and boost ratings. As for older people's conception about fidelity: yes, it's difficult. Is having a naughty chat with someone across the globe cheating, if it doens't ver get into the physical? Big questions.
• i'm having a hard time finding a way to express my feelings, here, without seeming too old fashioned. On the other hand, maybe I am too old fashioned. The self-proclaimed Sexual Revolution of the 60s/70s largely involved hippies, for whom screwing around was a joyous thing, and oldish codgers who were into the "swinging" scene - otherwise known as "take my wife/husband, please!" The former, at least those that I know, seem to have pretty much settled into relationships with the ones they loved most, and the latter have mostly died, leaving tacky gold shag carpet and leaking waterbeds behind. Having a "naughty chat" used to be called "flirting." Yes, the degree of naughtiness have changed, but the tradition goes back at least to Victorian ladies fanning themsleves with vigor and gentlemen sweating a bit under those starched collars. The flappers of the 20s, with stockings anchored below their short skirts, and the sirens of the 30s and 40s were certainly not innocent, even if no one said, "They're having hot, monkey sex." But, has romance been abandoned? Giving/getting a blow job to/from someone at McDonalds may be a fad, but it seems as empty as the swinging thing. Seems sad, from my perspecive.
• Man, I've had my own bad days, but this clocks 'em. Get some sleep, everyone involved here.
• oh, and fly? You're a liesure-suit kinda guy, right?
• Well, I have to withdraw my earlier statements. I just don't get it.
• What is cheating? It is when you step over the boundaries that you have established with your partner. It is when the trust between you is dissolved. For everyone there are different degrees to this - in open partnerships it may be if you become secretive, or fall in love with the outside person. In monogamous relationships perhaps even flirting is a big no-no. So rather than looking at what others define cheating as - ultimately it is how you define it, in conjunction with your partner that is important. One relationship you have may be different to another in these boundaries, at some stage it will have to be discussed what the boundaries are. I have always been very open about discussing this issue in my personal relationships. Of course in relationships emotions are involved and things can sometimes get very messed up, but I've found that this as happened when one person tosses out the decided upon "Game Plan". Take the following personal anecdote: I was seeing this bimbo guitarist for a few months. After the first month we had the discussion about boundaries - and he said that although he liked hanging out, he didn't consider me his "girlfriend" as such. I was cool with this and said in a very straight fashion, "So you don't care if I see other people, right?", to which he replied he had no problem with it. Another month goes by - the parents have been met (!), he has started to throw the "love" word around. I double check the "Game Plan" - he is still cool with that. So I'm out with a friend one night and hook up with this spunky tattooed Sex God and have a brief fling. The Bimbo Guitarist gets suspicious during the "fling" time, and confronts me. I reply honestly that yes I have been seeing someone else. Which makes him totally flip out and to my bewilderment burst into tears. Now the question is - did I "cheat"? (long rambling post - check confused and incoherent - possibly slightly)
• Here, here, path. *thumps cane on floor, tilts ear trumpet, flashes peace sign*
• At first I thought the FP was just missing some punctuation, and I wasn't reading carefully enough. Having skimmed the whole thread to the best of my ability, including fly's frequent quadposting bonanzas, I'm going to pretend the past two minutes didn't happen, and go looking for ice cream.
• Monkeyfilter: ladies fanning themselves with vigor, gentlemen sweating a bit
• That's a rather sexist link there! Him, he, his... What about the women who drift off for greener pastures? One of my pet theories is that, typically, men wander for sex and women wander for just about anything else. Companionship, conversation, the various things that don't immediately smack of being an affair but clearly are replacements for what they're not getting at home. But typically men are the ones who are "caught" as having sex is very clearly a boundary whereas simply having an involved emotional or intellectual relationship is far less clear cut.
• No, gomi, you did not. Makes appointment to get tattoo, Googles 'How to be spunkier', instantly regrets it... Good lord, that woman's face looks like it's melting!!!
• (pssst layne, lady layne I meant "spunk" in the Aussie slang way - Spunk : a good looking person (of either sex) - not the body fluid meaning....)
• Great, now what am I going to do with a hundred square feet of plastic sheeting and a living room full of creepy guys?!?
• Quick! Get a stack of test-tubes and start up a discount sperm bank!
• I have learned that it is easier for a camel to pass through the eye of an needle than for a bukkakiast to hit the opening of a test-tube. If anyone needs me, I'll be burning my hands.
• But typically men are the ones who are "caught" as having sex is very clearly a boundary whereas simply having an involved emotional or intellectual relationship is far less clear cut. A female friend's favorite response, when the question of 'who cheats more: men or women?' comes up: "Men cheat more, women cheat better".
• gomichild: interesting! Here in the US, "spunky" means (besides the obvious bodily fluid thing) something like "cheeky." Sort of out-going and fun-loving in a mildlly rebellious way.
• Also, it doesn't sound to me like you cheated at all, gomichild. It sounds to me like you were dating a person who wanted to keep the options open for himself, while hoping you'd have eyes only for him. Bleh.
• You are probably more right than you know meredithea. I'm sure he realized later he picked the wrong chick to try that one out on. i.e. when I kicked him to the curb for being a moron....
• What's up with putting he? Women are just as likely to cheat.
• information about sex and adultery can be informed to their happenstance but without werewithal in the afmorementioned site on the internet. That said, I am trying to find my glasses in my shocked and interesting table. Adultery.
• The Fornicator: a New Song Ye jovial boys who love the joys, The blissful joys of lovers; Yet dare avow with dauntless brow, When th' bony lass discovers; I pray draw near and lend an ear, And welcome in a Frater, I've lately been on quarantine, A proven Fornicator. Before the congregation wide, I pass'd the muster fairly, My handsome Betsey by my side, We gat our ditty rarely; But my downcast eye by chance did spy What made my lips to water, Those limbs so clean, where I, between, Commenc'd a Fornicator. With rueful face and signs of grace I pay'd the buttock-hire, The night was dark and thro' the park A parting kiss, what could I less, I could not but convoy her; My vows began to scatter, My Betsey fell -- lal de dal lal lal, I am a Fornicator. But for her sake this vow I make, And solemnly I swear it, That while I own a single crown, She's welcome for to share it; My roguish boy his Mother's joy, And the darling of his Pater, For him I boast my pains and cost, Although a Fornicator. Ye wenching blades whose hireling jades Have tipt you off blue-boram, I tell ye plain, I do disdain To rank you in the Quorum; But a bonny lass upon the grass To teach her esse Mater, And no reward but for regard, O that's a Fornicator. Your warlike Kings and Heroes bold, Great Captains and Commanders, Your mighty Cesars fam'd of old, And conquoring Alexanders; In fields they fought and laurels bought And bulwarks strong did batter, But still they grac'd our noble list And ranked Fornicator! -- Robert Burns
• I remember reading that Desi Araz was amazed to find out that Lucy considered it cheating for him to see prostitutes.
• Don't think it was precisely the sight of 'em...
• Oh, I get it! Somebody got dumped (sung to the tune of Somebody Got Murdered)! And here I thought this was a political thread!
• Seems to me often one group considers it to be 'cheating' if there is so much as a leer exchanged, whereas some others seem to equate cheating with getting caught, i.e., if the significant other doesn't know about it, then it's alright.
• Sylvester, I absolutely love your name. And it's got very little do do with the painkiller I took half an hour ago.
• Sure it doesn't. Sure. Neither do the neon nipples you're seeing orbiting your head right now. But you should always flip over the slow florple fahivel siiiiiiiiiinforlarf allweichoawlerkldanel....
• Why, thank you. Perhaps I can advise you on how to be far more 'special' than the other monkeys.
• Caution: how to be far more 'special' than the other monkeys = apple
• Clearly, Mr. Wacky, you need to be indoctrinated vis-a-vis the way of sneetches.
• **glances suspiciously at McMonkeyMcBean** **clears throat** Tut, tut. We'll have none of that here, young person.
• I'd behave if I were you, McBean. BlueHorse's first warning is nothing comapred to the second one. It involves rubber gloves.
• And a long-handled brush.
• Oh, so you got your third warning too, kit...? *cough*
• I quite liked it. I was naughty on purpose.
• What is cheating? Well, I'm glad you asked, fly! Cheating - or as it is known in Latin American countries, "el cheato completo", or as it is known in Latin American countries with a rich culture of road-side food vendors, "el cheato completo when you eato your meato on the streeto" - basically only happens in a number of very specific situations. Remember, if it ain't on this list, it ain't "cheatin'"! Situation Number 1. Let's say you have a King and two sixes. You're already in for $60, and the next two players also limp as well as the blinds, so all five of you see the flop. It comes 3 5 8, and it's checked to you and you bet. Meanwhile, I'm at your house fucking your wife. Situation Number 2. You survive a horrific crash of your airliner, and - amazingly - actually emerge from the wreckage completely unscathed. But Death is unhappy that he has missed his chance to scythe your soul. So he meets up with your husband in the sauna of his gym and they give one another their own private "workout", if you know what I mean. Situation number 3. You cheat on your tax, and after being found out you flee to a small island state that doesn't have an extradition treaty with your nation of birth. While you are there, me, death and the Internal Revenue Commissioner have sex with all the people you used to play poker with on a Friday night.
• He's right. I've tested all of those.
• They don't call him the Grim Reamer for nothing. Wait, is that right?
• My taxes never came back to me... I was such a fool.
• Ah yes, I remember when it was revealed that "seeing other people" means "fucking other people". Right, right. Note to self, and all that. That said, if anyone would like to gain control over my relationship with them - preferably sooner rather than later, please dial 9, then the pound sign, then 857.
• Ah - I should clarify that the above invitation is available to female monkeys only. Apologies for the inconvienence. Remember, you can't win if you don't play! And kit, quit calling. And that fake German accent is horrible!
• ACHTUNG!
• Bless you! "Es Überbrücker nicht, wenn sie nicht herausfinden"
• Where did you find my photo!?
• It's the one Pete used for the restraining order. And the leaflets he pasted all over his neighbourhood. 'HAVE YOU SEEN THIS MAN?'
• Everyone knows that cheaters never prosper.
• ...a..a..aand prospers never cheat?
• He didn't in the Tempest, anyway.
• Pity - noone has answered the foy challenge *sticks tongue firmly in cheek*
• Cheeky!