February 15, 2006

• Yay! Although they've already passed legislation in Scotland so smoking is banned in any enclosed or semi enclosed public space here, including workplaces from March 26th. I wonder whether pubs will end up with the same pavement leper colonies as many offices do?
• Secondhand, let's have your report on this on March 27th to gauge its impact for the Sassanachs!!
• Smoking fucked me up. Best advice I can give any smoker is to give it the push. Expensive, unpleasant for others, makes your clothes stink, screws your aerobic capacity. Fortunately you can regain quite a lot of this stuff relatively quickly. But you gotta quit. I smoke pot once a week to compensate. Been off the fags for 5 years now, it's eminently doable.
• Here in Ireland the pubs do have those permanent leper colonies. Not sure about elsewhere.
• where are you in ireland [MR]Chip?
• There are plans to open a needle exchange in some public toilets locally to me. And talk of setting up a 'shooting gallery' where medical supervision and advice can be given to users. Meanwhile I'm being kicked to the curb to have a cigarette, and to top it all, have to pay for my own damn lighters! In theory I is opposed to this sort of meddling by government, yet I think the benefits are probably worth it. [snark]I mean if it get just one smoker to give up for just one hour it will all be justified.[/snark]
• My mother and greandmother quit after 30-odd years. Never been prouder in my life.
• *lights up surreptitiously in the corner*
• I'm insanely relieved by this-- most of all, by the fact that it will include train stations. No longer being exiled from pubs is a plus as well.
• i quit, yet again, 12 days ago. i honestly feel better already.
• When we went smoke-free, we had all the same complaints from business-people fearing that their clubs and bars would go under, (especially from owners of peeler joints). And I can't think of a single place that closed. I'd think they gained just as many customers as they lost, maybe even picked up some more. That being said, while it's definitely a better place to be out in the clubs now, we have lost something. Me, I've lost the chance to smoke a nice cigar and not smoke myself out of my own house. Flirtation rituals have changed. With nothing for your hands to do, drinking has mildly increased. It's better this way for all concerned -- no doubt about that. I haven't missed being confronted by a stinking pile of clothes on my bedroom floor the next morning one bit.
• Well done roryk keep it up. I'm thinking 'O' quiting myself. I almost resent being a smoker.
• Me, I've lost the chance to smoke a nice cigar and not smoke myself out of my own house. Aren't cigar parlours excempt from the ban? They will be here when Québec bans smoking in bars and cafés in June. But Ontario is probably more uptight about it.
• "Aren't cigar parlours excempt from the ban?" There's an exemption for all private clubs, which can set up any rules they like. So, in theory, there could be a cigar club, and we could all go there and smoke up the joint. But there are plenty of restrictions on what a 'private club' is, otherwise every bar would simply call itself that, and continue on as usual. Private clubs need to have established membership lists, a consitution, collection of dues, etc. There was some hanky-panky going on at first, where cover charges were disguised as memberships, but those sorts of arrangements were either prosecuted out of existence, or were too much work.
• Way to go, roryk! There was a big furor here when smoking was banned, but I haven't heard of one business going under. There is an exemption if you create a separate room with certain, very specific ventilation hoods, which a few places have done. A few have made "smoking patios" out back in the alley. The people I think benefit most from this are waitstaff/bartenders/cooks who have had to breathe this for years and had no choice in the matter.
• Of course there are exemptions for cigars. Rich people smoke cigars. I wonder when we will see the exemption for smoking crack.
• The UK Parliament, not just the UK Govt. - it was a free vote, with cross-party support for legislation that went much further than the Government's original proposals for a partial ban. So give your mad props to all parties, yo. (Interesting side note: the ban doesn't apply to the Parliamentary Estate - the House of Commons, House of Lords, and the surrounding offices - because they're Crown land, not public spaces. There's already a call for the ban to be implemented in Parliament as well, though...) By the way, I'm typing this with nicotine gum in my mouth.
• Keep it up flashboy, roryk, et al!! I'm nigh on 7 years without the cancer sticks. Took up non-smoking habits like running... Couldn't even run 5 minutes straight when I started. Now I'm up to 6 miles a pop, 3 or 4 times a week. Did a 10 miler a few months back. Yay me!
• Good for you, roryk! Quite a few businesses were hurt by the smoking ban in my city; the restaurant I worked at has never fully recovered. And while I understand and encourage a ban in areas often frequented by children, I find the gubbermint's prohibition of a product that is still completely legal troubling. Business owners know what their patrons want, and they should be able to decide for themselves. Smokers would have places where they can go (Staff would be aware of the health risks involved with working in that environment, and children would be prohibited from said areas - kids aren't allowed in bars, why couldn't smoking restaurants share that status as well?), and non-smokers would have their places too. Yeah, I smoke. But I'm quitting, honest! It's -35C with the wind out there today!
• I almost resent being a smoker. That's what got me off 'em, finally. Couldn't stand how it dictated my every move, especially these days when smokers are personae non gratae in pretty much any indoor public space. Stocked up on patches, gritted my teeth, never looked back. So I say go for it.
• The biggest justification for the ban is the staff. Everyone is entitled to a safe workplace, as free from environmental hazards as possible. If my company had barrels of toluene stored in the back room, or asbestos in the insulation; I would have the right to refuse to come in to work until it was removed. Why shouldn't bar and restaurant workers have the same right when it comes to cigarette smoke?
• Quitting is HARD. I've quit unsuccessfully several times. Congrats to the monkeys who have stuck with it. I had my greatest success when using Wolof's method mentioned above though at a faster clip than once a week. Smoker Brokers invest ciggy money in mutual funds. (via mefi) Quitomzilla quit while surfing the interschnitzel (firefox extension)
• Mad props to all you strong-souled smoke-quitting monkeys.
• Don't you people get it?! No one is going to go to UK bars now! Instead, all the Londonites who want to enjoy an after work drink are going to fly to France every night at five o' clock! So long UK night-life!
• rxreed, hang in there. They say the more times you attempt quitting, the higher your likelihood with each successive attempt. But ultimately you've just got to make up your mind that it's what you want, come hell or high water. You might also find Quitmeter to be a good encouragement tool. It helped me, and I still go back and check it periodically. As of this writing, I haven't had 12,600 cigarettes.
• Mad props indeed - quitting is hard, and most who try, can't. As an aside (and please please please don't take this the wrong way) nicotine dependence can be a good indicator that....OK, people who smoke, on average, are much more likely to have a diagnosable mental health problem. There is evidence that suggests that nicotine is a way of self medicating. I'm sure many of you here already know this but there might be some of you who don't, and have tried to quit, can't and are wondering why you aren't strong enough. DON'T DO THAT TO YOURSELF. ok? It's no more "not strong enough" than having bad eyesight and needing glasses shows you aren't strong enough, that if only you were a little stronger you could see clearly. There's a reason the only non-nicotine FDA approved treatment for smoking is an anti-depressant.
• According to pinkNews: Banning smoking is the best thing Labour have done for the gay community. Because: "Gay men are more than twice as likely to be smokers as their straight counterparts."
• I approve of all monkeys who don't smoke, have quit, or are trying really hard to. Smokers smell bad, and are harming themselves. In addition, it really bugs me that a really large portion of the smokers I see think that it is OK to flick their butts into the street, or grass, or beach, or any place that is convenient. Having said that, I want to recount the rule that I have learned to be true 100% of the time. "When going on a group trip, choose to get on the bus with the smokers. They are always a lot more fun." Why is this? Why are smokers more jolly and outgoing?
• Because there is no fear of Death.
• Useful links rxreed & mct. In reference to polychrome's comment, Malcom Gladwell's book The tipping point had a chapter that dealt with the connection between, personality and smoking. Here is an abstract from one of the papers he references: Smoking: A special need. Its worth looking at. The good news was that he he make the case that smokers actually are cooler.
• How long before someone commits the logical fallacy of linking together the following statements: Gay men are more than twice as likely to be smokers as their straight counterparts and As an aside (and please please please don't take this the wrong way) nicotine dependence can be a good indicator that....OK, people who smoke, on average, are much more likely to have a diagnosable mental health problem. Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that. - Homer Simpson
• Why are smokers more jolly and outgoing? Because a large motivating factor to keep smoking is a reaction against the insufferable, smothering piety of too many of the anti-smoking crowd. Cancer, yes; heart-disease, agreed; antisocial, I know; smell, check; impotency, bad skin and wasted money... I'm with that. But, my gosh, do you have to come across like such a dick when saying it?* Frankly, the only morally justifiable response to many of the holier-than-thou finger-wagging brigade is to say, "bollocks to that, I'm off to smoke an entire packet while lying in a bath of nicotine". Hence, as a generalisation, you get a higher proportion of people who smoke being rather jovial, devil-may-care sorts. Of course, the boring smokers probably aren't going on the bus trip, either. *That "you" does not refer to anybody in this thread, but to an imaginary anti-smoking activist with thin lips, watery eyes, and enough arrogant dictatorial self-satisfaction to power an entire pressure group press department for a year.
• *dabs at eyes*
• *pokes eyes, gives chinese burn, runs away giggling*
• *trips*
• *regrets hubris*
• Homosexuality _is_ a risk factor for mental health problems, buck09. The smoking rate is higher and odds ratio of mental health problems is also higher than in the straight community. The exact nature of the causation has, I would hazard a guess, more than a little to do with stress. Here is another fine example of the enlightened attitudes that are around today.
• So, um, I heard that when the ban went into effect in Ireland, an unexpect and embarrassing side-effect was that, now everyone can smell your beer farts. True? Will the same be true in England? What did you Irish monkeys do about it? Are there now those automatic lysol things everywhere? Naag Champal sticks burning at the bar?
• ps: I played my first gig in a smoke-free city last Sunday. What a nice change.
• Oh, people can come up with statistics to prove anything, Kent. 14% of people know that. - Homer Simpson Anyone see "House, M.D." last night? House to girl drinking mango juice: Hey, do you have cancer? *Girls shakes head* I just proved mango juice prevents cancer!
• roryk - just north of Dublin (sorry, bit late)
• [MR]Chip - i'm visiting dublin tomorrow -> sunday. late notice to arrange a meetup, i know. stomper - what i found worse than beer farts in irish pubs/hotels since the smoking ban has been the general level of odour from damp, underwashed carpets and, toward the end of the night, sweaty tipsy people.
• but then again, ireland exports all the national soap production to the u.s. to get those precious dollars.
• Thank you for smoking. embedded QT, which doesn't work for me. Of course. Loved the book, can't wait for the movie!
• Still, never mind the extra £10 billion in tax smokers generate for the NHS, upon which non-smokers, living longer, are a greater financial strain. We're giving our lives that others might live. *Goes off to fumigate martyr complex*
• Wow.. this brings back old memories. Way back in Odd 2 (or 3?) when they eliminated smoking in bars in NYC, I was livid. Restaurants, planes, offices, etc. I was fine with the ban. I do, however, think it's ironic that an establishment which one visits with the intention of killing brain cells and damaging several other organs, should be against damaging another. Still.. I grew to become accustomed to the ban. I don't mind going outside, and I find that I smoke 50 to 75 percent less while I'm out now. My sole remaining point of contention is the strict regulation of establishments which allow smoking. On a street with 20 bars which disallow smoking, why can you not have one which does? As long as services provided (i.e. beer, food, etc.) are comparable, you're not putting anyone out by simiply stating at the front door: "We DO NOT have a No Smoking section." But perhaps that is just semantics. That's why I like Karma (a hookah bar in NYC) It's a bit pricy, but it's nice to smoke inside while hanging out with friends...
• If you're a smoker you might consider vitamin supplements. Study shows benefits of Vit C combined with Vit E From Oregon State University released Tuesday.
• Debaser626: my home US state of California began the non-smoking initiave back in the 70s. It started small. You couldn't smoke at your desk in a work area, but they had break rooms where you could take a puff, and restaurants had smoking sections. Then, restaurants could only allow smoking in the bar sections if the place had special air condition systems in that area. Then, some cities banned smoking in any outside areas - one could smoke in their house or car, but no place else. Then, companies abandoned the smoking sections, so smokers had to take a break outside and no smoking was allowed inside any public place. I think that, now, smokers can't puff away within 20 feet of a building entrance. The bans will continue to roll - and smokers seem to adjust to them. I know that I cut down a lot when I was working.
• I remember when my mom could smoke at her desk -- at a doctor's office! The doc would go into the exam room smoking. It's a different world, and I think that's mostly a good thing.
• This silly little comment from a trying to reform smoker given i have to pass a physical soon to continue the work that i love and the cigarettes are finally winning the fight. I cannot disagree with smoke bans because had i had them in my bar environment then maybe.... however I am nearly there but do any other monkeys truly enjoy meeting someone new and getting over 'smoker' being an accusatory term and actually sit down and enjoy the (yes albeit sneaky now and almost illicit ) thrill of finding a fellow pariah with whom you can enjoy a few stolen and smoke filled moments?
• Every smoker in this thread knows that it's shit, it's expensive, and it's very seriously not good for you. Get the fuck rid of it any way you can.
• Hello! Am I a sanctimonious ex-smoker?
• stomper ps: I played my first gig in a smoke-free city last Sunday. What a nice change. Wayy to go stomps!! Sadly (if I just play gigs in the UK) this wont happen to me for another 16 months...
• May I refer you to poetry?
• Gay men are more than twice as likely to be smokers as their straight counterparts Gay men have straight counterparts? Who knew?
• I do, however, think it's ironic that an establishment which one visits with the intention of killing brain cells and damaging several other organs, should be against damaging another. The difference is, when you drink you're only damaging your own liver and brain. Unless you're pregnant. You hear that, Mom? Just kidding. My mother is a saint. A SAINT!
• *joins Wolof on the moral highground, freshly bathed and wrapped in linen, delivers patronizing encouragement to the plebes with beatific smile and nose ever-so-slightly upturned*
• Well, I was one of those people who smoked in the doctor's office, the grocery store line-ups, and everywhere there were ashtrays, whick was all over the place anyhow. Now I smoke at home and in my car. My doctor grumbles a lot. My problem, and personally I am quite happy and healthy and the new 'boomer-death test' shows me having a 4% risk. The Guardian has a interesting article today called "Fags for the memories"
• Smoking is dangerous.
• Is nobody going to say it? Well then, I guess I'll have to. Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray.
• Well I can't smoke my pipe or cigars in most bars, so what the hell do I care if they ban those crappy ass sticks? Feel my pain, rest of the smoking world.
• Zaphod, are you my mummy?
• Chimp, I think we've proven you can always refer Monkeys to poetry! Allow me to do the same, and throw in some gorgeous music by Poulenc for good measure.
• Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray. And on the other side of that coin, there is nothing that will kill an erection faster than having to brush your teeth before your non-smoking SO will fuck you.
• Monkeyfiler: there is nothing that will kill an erection faster
• Cigarette smoke never used to bother me, though I have always been more or less non-smoking. I lived with heavy smokers for years and genuinely barely noticed the smoke. But since smoking has been banished from lots of places, I find I have become more sensitive. So while in principle I'm against the ban (as David Hockney said, why should everywhere have to be arranged to suit non-smokers - can't there be any places arranged to suit smokers?) I'm slightly ashamed to say that I can't feel very upset about it in practice.