February 23, 2004

Hallucinogen May Cure Drug Addiction. [Via Plastic.]

Ibogaine was discussed on MeFi here and here.

posted by homunculus 20 years ago
  • As a police officer, I have to say that anything that helps these people will be good for everyone. In my opinion, at least seventy-five percent of violent crime is a direct result of substance abuse. And yes, I am including alcohol, the legal drug, as a substance that contributes to criminal activity. With that said, I'm not sure where I stand on legalization.
  • Thanks for coming out of the closet, dheine. Will be good to have your perspective on board.
  • Lot of coppers over Aus way are for decriminalisation (but can't quite swallow legalisation) on purely pragmatic grounds. Fed up with mopping up the consequences of the law as it stands.
  • Yes, I read about this with interest on Erowid at some point. Not a perfect cure, but encouraging. In my opinion, at least seventy-five percent of violent crime is a direct result of substance abuse. And yes, I am including alcohol... Well, what if you don't include alcohol? How much of the remainder of drug-related violent crime is a direct result of use rather than being forced to deal with shady types, inflated prices, and unknown quality/purity of product? Just sayin'.
  • Not much. I came across this book last year just before Christmas. One statistic became starkly embedded in my mind. It relates to how the statistics are compiled and presented to the public: In the "public service announcements" during the 80s coke epidemic, it was mentioned that in 1987, 118 "cocaine-related" homicides occured in NYC. And that's the extent of the info. But, the book reveals the breakdown of the figure, 83 crimes involving dealer disputes or gang warfare related to drug traders, 30 odd crimes involved with financing the habit and only 1 out of the 118 involving a person actually high on coke/crack. So, how many violent "dealer disputes" occur over legal alcohol trade? And how many crimes for financing alcohol as opposed to coke? The profit margin on some illegal drugs (coke,heroin) is staggering. Another statistic: Opium crops worth $3,000/kg in Pakistan, once processed as heroin, sell for $2,90,000 in NYC.
  • /rant over
  • As a police officer, Thanks for coming out of the closet
  • I've tried Ibogaine.
  • i couldn't stop taking it.
  • after working with offenders and their families for over twenty-five years in the community, i have to agree with dheine. the pervasiveness of addictions goes far beyond crime to impact on entire social fabrics as immediate and extended families suffer from an addict's actions. crime usually begins at home before reaching into the community. povery, sickness and overall deprivation go hand in hand for those associated with the addict and the community is left with the damage, in costs of helping them survive, receive medical care and often the long-term costs of the lifetime impairment of their children. i never met an addict of drugs or alcohol who did not want to change, but was virtually always unable to break free from their state due not only to the arduous personal struggle but the need to escape the external pressures as well. perhaps if their individual needs to escape addiction are more easily addressed then the other factors could be less unsurmountable. it would certainly be preferable to such as methadone, which creates it own addiction and black market. helping to address weakness will only help the growth of strength.
  • Wow, dxlifer...That is a snapshot of what I see daily. Unfortunately, we are given so few tools to work with that we can do little that has any long term effects. (Not that the power of arrest is not a significant tool, it simply does not work for more than the time that they actually in custody. In fact, it then makes it harder to get out of the cycle. More fines, criminal record, loss of driver's license, etc.) I wish I had an answer but something like this that can, possibly, address one of the issues is worth looking at.
  • Nil--I cannot seperate alcohol. From my experience, where there is drug use there is alcohol use. There are far more fights, disorderly conduct (passing out on the sidewalk), and DUI arrests than there robberies and rapes. I would say that a person under the influence (of anything) is far more likely to commit a crime than one who is not under the influence.
  • I've been hearing about Ibogaine for awhile now. Potential miracle drug, yes, but I can't see the government actually approving this anytime in the near future. Too much money to be lost when the biggest drug lord in the US is our own government. I know most will disagree with that. Say what you will, I'm a former crack addict. If there were no drug addicts, would you, dheine, have a job as a police officer. The black market is a most effective tool to our own government in many ways. While drugs wreak havoc on our society they also tend to "weed out" undesireables,no? Survival of the fittest. Hats off to you, dheine, for doing a job (and well I hope), that I wouldn't in a million years want to have. It's an uphill battle.
  • I wonder, too, how this might fare in weight-loss trials or quitting smoking. With appropriate support. I'd better stock up now before prices skyrocket.
  • i think the saddest part, dheine, is that the 'visible' crime one sees is generally motivated by need....i.e. that spurrred by emotional needs, addictions etc. crimes of greed are are plotted by those with the leisure to carefully plan and get away with their goals. unfortunately enforcement is so caught up with the more high profile 'need' crime that the greedy don't get the resources necessary to pursue them...be they individuals, gangs or whatever. addictions have been with mankind for centuries, but only in recent times made more accessible to those with limited means due to the greedy ones.opium...laudanum(sp?)..heroin...morphine...somehow we need to develop a process to deal with the addictive process in as a refined manner as the production of the substances. (IMHO) i worked mostly in probation and parole, with kids and adults, and it was rare indeed to salvage an individual and the ancillary family network in the process. it always seemed to require a special magic of timing, the right individual and the right treatment and care. serendipity at it's most elusive. but those occassional individuals made all the other failures well worth it for me. and i hate to admit it but i concede that some folks failed because of intervention! the system can bury them all the deeper.
  • Darshon--yeah, I think I would still have a job. I like to think that if I did not have to deal with the problems of substance abuse that I could then truly become a "community oriented" police officer. By that I mean, simply, I could start focusing on the small things that make really make a difference in the average person's life--noise complaints, dog at large calls, people speeding on your quiet little street, etc- In general, I would love to go out and take a survey of a street and see what their problems really are and take care of those rather than what I am doing now--running from call to call and trying to catch up with the bad guys.
  • Oh and FWIW, enforcement is not always the right answer. In fact, I dare say that for these "quality of life" calls enforcement would be a last resort. Cops should get back to doing what they are supposed to do--solving problems for the community. Sir Robert Peel (started the modern English Police force--the "Bobbies") said it best--"The police are simply those members of the community who are charged with the power to enforce the laws," and "The police are the public and the public are the police."
  • "The police are the public and the public are the police." as soon as i saw peel's name that quote came to my mind. i'm so glad you posted it as it seems a forgotten or unknown principle in everybody's concept of policing. i once did a work placement with a police force for a degree credit and in my concluding paper, i pointed out the need, (in 1979) for more old fashioned policing on the street and on the beat to restore the interaction and communication of police and the community. now our local force has been trying just that, but i've watched some officers talking to homeless youths etc on the street and it's obvious they still don't have the mind-set or skills for such communication. the interaction is more akin to pious lecturing than any attempt to find a mode of interaction where the recipient doesn't immediately tune them out. we have a long way to go to get back to the past.
  • "we have a long way to go to get back to the past." I'm sure Robert Peel's police were even worse at talking to the poor of their neighbourhoods. (I know that most 19th cen charity workers were terribly condescending and judgemental). He was just trying to justify their existence to an English legislature who were understandbly concerned about this new invention, previously only used in Ireland.
  • true enough.....but i was referring to the spirit of that new concept of policing. and there are still many peolpe who remember the kindly and motivated street cop, who even though they were not the norm, seem obsolete today. most officers prefer the sanctity of the patrol car and see the beat as a rigeur to be endured until they can move up. when's the last time you've seen an officer that choses to stay on foot patrol even though (S)he can move onward? the closest i see anymore are the few mounted patrols who's love of their mount leads to a shared bond with those who admire the horse. here, except in the largest cities, mounted patrols are only out in the summer as a tourist attraction. in toronto they are known for trampling people during crowd control. i still believe that policing should focus more on people skills than enforcement ones. a need to recognise that the officer is a member of the community and all it represents....not just their ability to make people subjected to the politically defined norms of behaviour that they represent....which shift with the whims of interpretation anyway. we certainly did meander off the original topic, did we not?
  • Oh, please! continue dxfiler and dheine! This is one of the best discussions I have seen here on MoFi.
  • As seen on CSI!
  • Can someone who knows more about ibogaine than me tell me whether the trials show any addictiveness in the ibogaine itself? I didn't see anything in the main link that said one way or the other. There wouldn't be much point if it ended up being another methadone. And I really enjoyed reading this discussion also. Thanks, you guys.
  • Ibogaine is not addictive. Think LSD. It might be habit forming, if 12 hour nightmares are your thing, but not actually chemically addictive in itself. It's anti-addictive, breaking the neurological circuits that form from addictive behaviour, so of course it works on itself, as well, if you catch my drif'.
  • Gotcha, thanks.
  • Can one purchase Ibogaine? It appears as if it is not currently illegal in the US, or am I wrong here?
  • You're out of luck Squid, as you can see here. The US Drug Enforcement Agency classifies ibogaine as illegal as LSD, psilocybin, marijuana, and ecstacy. But I'll let you know when the guys down the block from me start selling it along with everything else I just mentioned.
  • I'm just tripping out about the fact that comments here are TEN YEARS OLD.
  • MonkeyFilter is a flat circle.
  • CAROUSEL