December 28, 2005

• Let me be the first to say: Why jack off when you can jack in?
• Is it just me, or does it sound like the test subject animals was completely and totally addicted, even choosing the stimulation over food? How is this really better than mood-altering drugs? There would just be people selling their blood on the streets for one hit from the electrode, no?
• animal was
• "does it sound like the test subject animals was completely and totally addicted, even choosing the stimulation over food?" Yes. "How is this really better than mood-altering drugs?" You die quicker.
• Here come the socket-heads! Plug in, tune out, and pay your electrical bill in some alternate current of the time-stream.
• Larry Niven discussed "wireheads" as a social issue in The Ringworld Engineers (and other stories, I believe). Interesting read.
• ))) , bees!
• Right now? Gimme the button!!!!! Tomorrow? Wouldn't touch it
• "...test subject animal was completely and totally addicted..." I suspect the lessons of Rat Park apply here too.
• Interesting how much trepidation and innate distaste the medical establishment seems to have for this idea. Many seem to think that hammering a highly severe and intractable depressive's system with drugs and ECT is preferable to just dropping a line straight into the pleasure center. In my personal opinion, for someone who is so mentally ill as to be completely unproductive and unable to function outside of an institution... well, I'd rather have my tax money going to having them incredibly blissfully happy and unable to function than incredibly and destructively miserable and unable to function. But that's just me.
• Ah, but, altruistic and humane as that could be, chimaera, such a therapy would surely cause envy on all the rest of the human population. 'Why do they get to live in perpetual bliss and don't...?'
• Back when this stuff was new, those studies were the piece of evidence to explain that addictive drugs act on the same brain circuitry. I've heard a few lectures about addiction which start out precisely in this way. Never read about Rat Park before, that was interesting.
• Good point, Flagpole. Though I still have a feeling that the distaste for this sort of thing is rooted more in the weird Protestant "fun is sinful, hard work is virtuous" concept than out of sociological pragmatism.
• We live in Strange Days...
• On the other hand... John Wesley and Electric Shock. When we were in London, we took a tour of Wesley's chapel and home. There was actually a portable electroshock machine he'd take into the streets to shock sick who couldn't come to his clinic. " Disorders in Which Wesley Thought Electrification to be of Use: Agues King's Evil St. Anthony's Fire Knots in the Flesh Blindness, even from a Gurra Serena Lameness, Leprosy Blood extravasated Mortification (dead flesh) Bronchocele Palpitation of the Heart Chlorosis Pain in the back, in the Stomach Coldness in the feet Palsy, Pleurisy Consumption Rheumanism, Ring worms Contractions of the limbs Sciatica, Shingles, Sprain Cramp Surfeit (excessive eating) Deafness, Dropsy Swellings of all kinds Epilepsy Throat sore Feet violently disorded Toe hurt Felons Tooth - Ache Fistula Lacrymalis Wen (tumor on the scalp, goitre Fits, Ganglions, Gout, Gravel Head ache, Hysterics, Inflammations"
• He possibly wasn't aware of the euphoria that often follows electroshock therapy. But he was definitely protestant.
• Wesley's therapy works because today we no longer see people with: Toe hurt Felons Tooth - Ache
• I can't say whether it would be any better than drugs, but I also can't see that it would be any worse. Unless the theory is that the negative side-effects of drugs will keep people from over-using them?
• You know, I had a nice little crack addiction many years ago and once I got over that and was able to talk about it I was asked to explain what it felt like. How can that feeling be explained? Choosing stimulation over food pretty much sums it up. Access to something like that would be destructive in the end, at the very least you would ruin yourself to ever being able to feel anything good naturally. Believe me, it takes a loooooong time to recover. It's like that episode in SouthPark where Cartman sees the people with asses for heads and cannot laugh about it. When asked why he says that he has likely seen the funniest thing he has ever and will ever see in his life and he realizes that he might never be able to laugh at anything ever again.
• Choosing stimulation over food pretty much sums it up I can't even begin to imagine this.
• I think "choosing stimulation over food" is only an issue with actual drugs (the "Do I spend money on food or drugs?" question), or in research contexts (the "Does the subject choose the button that enables the wire but disables the food?" question), and considering the fact that continued use of the wire would not take money or render food inaccessible, I think most ESB addicts would probably continue to eat.
• "A cordless droud. Man, that's what I want for Christmas."
• Hedonistic Imperative is the standard net reading on this topic.
• Well, the electricity bill would always get paid, anyway!
• Interesting. Seems like I've read this before. How can that feeling be explained? A friend of mine was an ex-crack addict, and also a hard core vegan. I asked him once what crack was like. He told me they can make a really good burger out of soy. They can come very close to making it taste like real beef. But it's never quite as good, and you always long for that extra that can only come from the real thing. He said after smoking crack, the rest of life was a soy burger.
• He said after smoking crack, the rest of life was a soy burger. But, if you can hang in there and be okay with that, it's not so bad. I have a lot in my life that completely outweighs that kind of option, anymore. However, knowing what I know, if I didn't have all these great things in my life I'm not so sure I wouldn't turn to that in a dark moment. Jesus, the crash that happens afterwards, though. Good God, it's a wonder I didn't just shoot myself.
• More power to you, Darshon. We're all glad you didn't. Now you must learn to use your knowledge and wisdom for good, not evil.
• Holy shit, Darshon. Umm, I'm also glad you're not dead.
• Jesus, it's getting so that being an ex-heroin addict doesn't have any fuckin cachet anymore.
• Hey, I'm glad your not dead too. But significantly less so.
• During the initial three-hour session, subject "B-19" stimulated himself some 1,500 times. Sounds like kit.
• *hugs for Darshon*
• I have an immense admiration for any addict of any kind that can pull back from the edge and just stop. I don't know if I would have the strength to do so.
• Uh, if I had bothered to read the thread in any level of detail, I would have left my mockery of kit for later, Darshon. Glad you made it through.
• Glad all monkeys here have made it through. You all have my immense admiration. It was too good an opportunity to miss, Capt. And you cheered me up immensely on a glum, flu-ridden morning. As a matter of fact, you nearly killed me, as an orange section went down my throat while I was laughing but that's another story.
• (I was only joking about being an ex-smack addict. There's no way I'm giving up smack)
• Levels of gladness at your continued life dropping quickly ...
• It's ok, I found a power-up.
• Would that power-up consist of a marine battery and a probe into the pleasure center of your brain by any chance?
• Can't type now, am jacked in ummmmmmmmmmmlllshshslls
• (We have pleasure centres in our brain..?)
• the pleasure centre in his brain got muddled again gives nothing but pain so fill his glass with gin (and hold the vermouth!) let it stop the ache in his felon's tooth
• )))))!