December 16, 2005

Big turnout for elections in Iraq. Granted, it's not the 100% voter turnout from "back in the day", but still, it's a start.
posted by f8xmulder 18 years ago
  • Newsfilter, I know. Sorry...
  • 70%, and they had the threat of being blown to bits at the polls. That's very admirable, and if I may be so cheesy, inspirational, too.
  • Most voted so the occupation would end sooner than later. It's so comforting to know that the main reason people are voting is so your troops will leave their land . Makes me proud to be an American. Yeah Democracy!
  • So it's not all death, destruction, and massive defrauding? Cool. I do loves me some votin'. Hey! Howcome they get a paper trail while we get these fraud boxes?
  • That really is great. I think there used to be a day when folks in the US turned out at a seventy percent rate. Would have loved to see a referendum question on the ballot: Would you like the United States military to remain in Iraq for the time being? Yes No
  • Most voted so the occupation would end sooner than later. Says you. Now watch me do it. Most voted because they could actually vote. Because they realize they can set their own destinies by participating in government, rather than being oppressed by it. The fact that they even have a free and democratic vote seems to have flown right over your head, Argh.
  • You'll never hear it in the American press. But elsewhere... Throughout the campaign, the departure of US-led forces and punishment of Sunni Arabs by Iraqi forces were main themes of Sunni parties, including two key coalitions -- the National Concord Front and the Iraqi Front for National Dialogue. I'd vote too if it meant freedom for my country from an occupation force.
  • You know what f8x, everytime I read your republican rantings it insires me to FPP more political stuff and less BalloonHat.
  • Hey now, I'd hardly call f8x's statement a republican rant. More like a different perspective. Except for the anti-Argh snipe, of course.
  • I'd have to put myself in the middle on this one. Every time I hear about any sort of progress towards independance and *gasp* freedom in Iraq, I'm simultaneously encouraged/discouraged/re-encouraged/afraid I'm getting hoodwinked. I have high hopes for the Iraqi people, but it's so tough for me to really grasp progress when I have so little faith in the media and goverment that primarily bring me my information here in the U.S. Also, I think that that to measure progress on our terms as opposed to theirs doesn't paint an accurate picture of progress in Iraq for Iraqis. I think that what happens now holds limited relevance to what they'll do once we aren't there with guns anymore. And bully for them, I've always felt it's no more our business how they do things than it is theirs how we handle ours. Live and let live assumed, of course... But hey, it's good practice.
  • Every time I hear about any sort of progress towards independance and *gasp* freedom in Iraq, I'm simultaneously encouraged / discouraged / re-encouraged / afraid I'm getting hoodwinked Well put, rollbiz! It sounds great to begin with, then you remember (or it's pointed out to you) that there's some bad shit going on over there and you wonder, then you remember that if they get this process done & overwith we'll be outta there, then.... yeah. It can make for some interesting conversations. But still. 70% turnout is extremely admirable.
  • here's the thing(s); 1. thinking that Iraq is going to be all sunflowers and unicorns now just 'cause they voted is silly. "Democracy" created by bombs does not work and never will. They have many more problems ahead and things could well be even worse than they were under Saddam. BUT 2. trying to spin this as a negative story, when it is in fact quite positive to anyone with a whiff of partiality, is just as stupid. We shouldnt be there now and we never should've been there. But things went well for them for once, and posting about that is not by any stretch a "republican rant."
  • Argh, I don't see f8x's posts/comments as rants. In fact, I'm always pleased to get some input from someone I respectfully disagree with. And, I do think he has a valid point in saying "Most voted because they could actually vote. Because they realize they can set their own destinies by participating in government, rather than being oppressed by it." Previously, all Iraqis had to vote, and all votes had to be for the Ba'athists. And, the Ba'athists were pretty much Sunnis. The Sunnis are a minority in Iraq. The majority are Shia'a. Really, that 70% turned out to cast ballots when the last two elections were targeted by insurgents with scare tactics (lethal ones, at that) and that the Sunnis, who pretty much skipped the last vote, came out in good numbers, leads me to believe that at least some things are getting better there. Even Faisa, who is the most conservative of the Iraqi bloggers I read, was very happy to be able to vote in this election. (Scoll down, scroll down to her 12/15 post translated into English. However, it did strike me as funny and sad that she got so irate that an Iraqi citizen living in Israel was allowed to vote. I understand that her family has Palestinian connections, but she's always said that Iraqis got along, no matter what their religion/ethnicity.) When the votes are counted, we'll see what they voted for. In thinking about how I'd feel if I were one of them, I wouldn't be quite ready for the US to pull its troops out since the Iraqi army and police still have a lot of problems. Not the least of which is that they're being targeted by the insurgents. While that wasn't a ballot issue, the support that is tallied for various slates of candidates should give some clues. And, really, it struck me that F8x's comments were celebrating an election that we liberals should be happy about. I really think you're the one who ranted.
  • They're still gonna have a civil war.
  • Chy, I think it's inevitable. But I can still hold out some small hope.
  • "And, really, it struck me that F8x's comments were celebrating an election.." Hmm. Actually I think he was probably trying to say 'look, we done good, you awful critics of the Iraq war' and attempting to gloss over the illegal war, the thousands of innocent dead, and the whole war-crime business, the lying and the corruption of the Bush administration and so forth, thereby making himself feel a little better. The ends justify the means, in other words. F8x is a devout Christian, from what I gather, and as such probably doesn't really care about the Iraqi people, as most of them are Muslim and therefore going to Hell anyway, according to the tenets of his faith (unless they can be converted and thereby saved). But that's me being typically uncharitable and accusing him of hypocrisy, which I freely admit isn't very nice, and I certainly have no way of being sure he really thinks these things. However, I think cynicism is a way of seeing things as they are and not as they ought to be. The truth of the matter is that the elections are meaningless, as the leaders will be puppets for the US such as Chalabi, and anyway, can any of us even name one of them? Even if that is not the case, the country will swing towards an Iran-like state, so really the entire adventure was a complete fuck up from start to finish, and, yes, I'm sorry to say this but Iraq would have been better off under Hussein. That is how monumentally the US has fucked it up. Absolute incompetence of a scale impossible to fictionalise.
  • It's hard to celebrate at a wedding when you know the cake has been poisoned.
  • Or if the US airforce bombs the shit out of the wedding party.
  • Actually I think he was probably trying to say 'look, we done good, you awful critics of the Iraq war' and attempting to gloss over the illegal war blah blah blah You've got me pegged about as well as a blind man playing pin the pasty on the Disney princess. ...and as such probably doesn't really care about the Iraqi people Chy, what gives you the right to assume this? And since we're on the subject of caring, how much do you really care? Not a lot, I gather, from your constant use of the Iraqi people as a platform for your hate-filled rants against conservatives, Republicans, Christians, and whoever else you caught sight of in your rear view while driving to work every morning. But that's me being typically uncharitable and accusing him of hypocrisy Yes. So very true. It'd be nice if you could try the reverse sometime, at the very least with me. That I know of, I have never mocked atheistic, bitter old men (unless you count this as one) for being unbearable cads. Perhaps you could extend an equivalent courtesy to me once in a while. Or, you know, at least, keep your hate and intolerance to yourself. Please?
  • The neocon apologist complaining about hate and intorerance. Now I've seen everything.
  • Speaking of impending civil wars...
  • "I have never mocked atheistic, bitter old men..." Is this directed at me? I wasn't aware 35 was old, and I'm not an atheist. However, I am a little bitter. But I don't drive! And I don't hate Christians (I just think the literalists are rather dim), in fact I don't hate anything (too much energy to expend) except war and injustice. So I don't think you'd do too well in that disney blind princess pasty whatname game you are talking about, either, old chap. As far as the mockery of Republicans and those who backed the Iraq war goes, they deserve all they get. Why?
  • Yeah, lovely comment, Argh.
  • And, yeah, Chy, mockery is definitely the way to progress.
  • Assassination seems to be frowned upon.
  • Assassination Dancedancerevolution.
  • The neocon apologist complaining about hate and intorerance. Now I've seen everything. There is hate and intolerance on both sides.
  • Boy I love political threads!
  • Can I disagree with everything about the war and ShrubCo and still be happy they voted? I think so. Does it mean anything? Yes, it's a start. A very, very expensive, utterly unnecessary start. To still support this war after all the baseless scaremongering has been revealed, after the outrageous profiteering and sheer financial incompetence (or, if you prefer, unwillingness to cooperate) has been documented is just misplaced blind faith at best or idiocy at worst. Senseless death and destruction because George W. Bush is an arrogant, ignorant man and a poor leader. It is cool to see them voting, but this much-needed "win" by ShrubCo is a long way from justifying much of anything.
  • > it's not the 100% voter turnout from "back in the day", but still, it's a start. unfortunately, there's a whole lot of other stuff that isn't as it was "back in the day"... to name a few: public safety, electricity supply, women's rights. i'm glad that people get to vote for whom they choose, however, i fear that free and open elections will not be common in iraq in the near future.
  • Those that want to can be as negative and sinister as they always have been. Yeah, the turnout was heartening to me. I hope these opposing coalitions can pull it together and believe that they are Iraqis, a true nation of diverse people. A civil war? If the people have the will, it will happen. If enough of the silent majority accept the election results and institute an actual government and drive out the dissemblers, who knows?
  • There's a fair argument to be made that they're already in a civil war - recent blue thread was interesting.
  • This is fucked up.
  • Civil war usually is.
  • At least Iran is trying to help calm things down...
  • The Iranian President is as insane as ours is stupid. Where are the best and brightest? Micro$oft. Yeah. Think about that. Dang, looks like I gotta reboot . . .
  • Perhaps you weren't listening to the Army's spokesman on Friday. There is no violence in the streets. Fall in!
  • UK, US to withdraw Iraq forces by early '07 Um, unless there's trouble, then they're not. That's what the article says, anyway.
  • unless there's trouble Heh. Old Plan PLAN: Invade Iraq. CODENAME: Operation Infinite Crusading Justice Alliance of GOOD. PROS: More oil, gives the Army kids something to do. CONS: Faint possibility of trouble of some kind. New Plan PLAN: Get the fuck out of Iraq. CODENAME: Operation Coping with Loss. PROS: Less toil, Army kids playing up too much. CONS: Faint possibility of trouble of some kind.
  • See, I expected more from you limeys. I mean if we elect some kinda drunken cowboy idiot to play with our nuclear arsenal that's our problem. But don't you guys have some kind of . . I dunno . . history or . . sense of some sort?? That's what it says on the bar towel I brought back anyway.
  • I tell you men now it is so important to free everyone in these countries for democracy until they're seen as trouble and an expensive drain on the pocketbook of this freedom-loving and meritorious nation that is bringing these ingrates democracy even if it means killing all the children and all the soldiers in the name of righteous democracy and of course self defense and god is on our side despite the dead children and the tortured prisoners who deserve it anyway so you boys just go out there and serve the interests of this great nation and the things for which we still stand up the flag the anthem and for which we stand still and wave o'er the land
  • Only a . Because you've addressed our wound.
  • Too much!
  • Bush Dumb?
  • But . . but . . they voted! They love democracy!
  • Sunnis, Shiites join in radio-TV station Using jumper cables and a 12-volt battery, plus financial backing and technical help from the United States, Sunnis and Shiites are broadcasting with one voice in Iraq. A makeshift radio and television station went on the air last month in Baqouba with a refurbished transmitter lashed onto the top of a radio tower originally built by Saddam Hussein to broadcast Baathist propaganda into Iran and Syria. The young staff -- two Sunni and two Shiite Muslims -- works together to produce a menu of Arabic news, public affairs and entertainment programming, a collaboration that would not have seemed remarkable before Iraq's sectarian divisions hardened into tit-for-tat killings last year.
  • Let us wash our hands, and our support of Maliki, forEVAR!