November 24, 2005

• > PETA proves that they are a collection of uninformed, hypocritical sociopaths once again. yes, according to you and the center for consumer freedom, a non-profit U.S. advocacy group funded by the food, alcohol, and tobacco industries, and "more than 1,000 concerned individuals," i don't have a lot of time for peta, but i've less time for industry posing as consumer representation
• Killing animals is bad.
• What about when animals kill animals?
• Oh, that's fine.
• Not counting the dogs and cats PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 85 percent of the animals it took in during 2003 alone. So, Peta killed 85% of the animals they took in, AND THAT'S NOT EVEN COUNTING THE ANIMALS THAT THEY DIDN'T KILL!
• A bit of perspective, for the vitriol disinclined: Two North Carolina workers for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals have been charged with animal cruelty for the manner in which they euthanized and disposed of the bodies of dogs and cats. PETA says the animals were sick or unadoptable. The CCF believes at least some of the pets were adoptable, Porter says. "You can quibble about the means," he says, but he argues that PETA is doing the same kind of thing for which it condemns others. "The group was caught doing something they know is not right, or at least looks hypocritical," Porter says. The Center for Consumer Freedom is run by Washington Richard B. "Rick" Berman, a former labor lawyer and restaurant industry executive who is a lobbyist for the food, alcoholic beverage and tobacco industries. In the late '80s, Berman fought the Americans with Disabilities Act, saying it threatened to cripple the hospitality industry. The CCF has repeatedly attacked PETA in the past in the name of "consumer freedom." "PETA kills animals--and its leaders dare lecture the rest of us," the Berman-connected PETAkills animals.com Web site says. PETA isn't shy about responding on its own Web site, consumer deception.com, saying, "Berman has been called 'a tobacco company whore,' but he's branched out since then." ...PETA said it offered to take stray animals and euthanize them by fast-acting injection because it considers that more humane than gassing or shooting them.
• I consider it more humane to actually try and look after animals that are not too sick / injured to survive, rather than euthanize them with fast-acting injections. But hey, that's just me.
• Sorry, roryk, here are some links I tried to spare you from in the original post. There are many more. And please read the references, this isn't all from the CCF or their less subtle PKA off-shoot or a politically or charged "right". This is about uninformed hypocritical activism which supports the direct damage of property including animal shelters. Ethics is relative.
• Not my relatives. Bunch of fucking scoundrels, the lot of them.
• Oh right I may have misunderstood.
• The 12 year old girl should be the focus of this story. She in vastly more important that 100 dogs and cats.
• Define "vastly".
• The 12 year old girl should be the focus of this story. She in vastly more important that 100 dogs and cats. Sort of the point of the following PETA post. But it's my bad in picking a CCF pamphlet, when all I wanted was one of the myriad examples of PETA's illogic and sociopathic behavior.
• insolentchimp, like i said above, i don't have much time for peta. however, i would rather avoid "consumer advocacy" groups that're largely funded by business.
• roryk, here. It was a quick google for emphasis... not nitpicking.
• Is there an alternative to PETA in the US? We have the RSPCA in the UK, is there as US equivalent? What I mean is, can you be concerned about animals without being a loony?
• Is there an alternative to PETA in the US? We have the RSPCA in the UK, is there a US equivalent? What I mean is, can you be concerned about animals without being a loony?
• i thought we were meant to pick nits? it's like a social activity.
• No, I'm afraid that you can't. Try plants.
• Err ... that was aimed at mutey.
• The plants are my friends. They tell me things. Aha - ASPCA? Is PETA the extreme arm of them?
• muteboy: PETA is entirely seperate from the ASPCA. There's also the Humane Society, and all kinds of rescue societies and no-kill shelters at the local level. So yes, there are lots of alternatives to PETA.
• Muteboy, believe it or not, PETA is a relatively small (yet vocal) organization. It's an interesting creature, because it exists for the sole purpose of marketing. It doesn't actually DO anything except try to make people angry. In other words, it's a troll. Meanwhile, as VeraGemini points out, there are two major national organizations (the SPCA and the American Humane Society), and countless local organizations as well. While PETA is grandstanding, everyone else is busy with the day-to-day business of improving the lives of actual animals. I think it's really sad that PETA's message so overwhelms the airwaves that a non-American would be moved to ask, "Don't you even have an SPCA?" In the wake of the Katrina disaster, both the SPCA and the Humane Society, along with tons of smaller organizations, undertook a major self-directed effort to rescue stranded pets. PETA meanwhile was... where? Not there, certainly. God forbid they should actually help real live animals in danger.
• * 1983: successfully stopped a United States Department of Defense "wound lab" which had planned to fire missiles into dogs and goats. * 1984: released more than 70 hours of videotape shot in the University of Pennsylvania head-injury laboratory, showing the treatment of primates there. The secretary of health and human services subsequently cut off all funding to the laboratory and the experiments were stopped. In the same year, a Texas slaughterhouse to which 30,000 horses were taken each year from all over the United States, then allegedly left to starve outside without shelter, was closed after a PETA campaign. * 1985: revealed details of the treatment of dogs at the City of Hope laboratory in California. The government fined the center $11,000 and suspended more than $1,000,000 in federal funding.
• # 1986: stopped the total-isolation confinement of chimpanzees at a Maryland research laboratory called SEMA. Dr. Jane Goodall called her tour of the SEMA lab “the worst experience of my life.” # 1987: stopped a plan by Cedars-Sinai, California’s largest hospital to ship stray dogs from Mexico into California for experiments. In the same year, they launched the Compassion Campaign to fight cosmetics and personal-care product testing on animals. By 1989, PETA had persuaded nearly 500 companies, including Mary Kay and Amway, to go cruelty-free. # 1988: secret video shot inside East Carolina University and distributed by PETA showed an inadequately anesthetized dog undergoing surgery during a classroom exercise. The university subsequently declared a moratorium on the use of live animals. # 1990: exposed the alleged beating of orangutans by Las Vegas entertainer Bobby Berosini, who used the primates in a nightclub act. His captive-bred wildlife permit was suspended by the U.S. Department of the Interior, and his show closed. Four years later, the Nevada Supreme Court unanimously ruled in PETA’s favor and overturned a Las Vegas jury’s $3.2 million defamation award to Berosini. In the same year, the Caring Consumer Campaign succeeded in persuading Estée Lauder and 40 other companies to halt animal testing.
• # 1991: the Silver Spring Monkeys case receives a unanimous, positive ruling from the U.S. Supreme Court, the first time that a case involving animals in laboratories had been heard by the court. # 1992: PETA undercover investigators revealed the details of U.S. foie gras production, documenting the force-feeding of geese. Police subsequently conducted the first-ever raid in the United States, and possibly in the world, on a factory farm, and many restaurants removed foie gras from their menus. In the same year, PETA testified at the first-ever U.S. congressional hearing on the use of animals in circuses, rodeos, films, and other types of entertainment. # 1993: General Motors gave PETA a statement of assurance that it had ended the use of live pigs and baboons in crash tests after a PETA campaign. In the same year, L’Oréal, the world’s largest cosmetics company, signed a worldwide ban on animal testing, following a PETA campaign. PETA also revealed details of scabies experiments using dogs and rabbits at Wright State University. The university was subsequently charged with violating the Animal Welfare Act, and the experiments ended. # 1994: Buckshire Corporation, a laboratory animal breeding facility, was charged with violations of the Animal Welfare Act after a 38-page complaint was submitted by PETA. A furrier is charged with cruelty to animals following the release of PETA videotapes showing a California fur rancher electrocuting a chinchilla by clipping wires to the animal’s genitals. It was the first time in U.S. history that a furrier was charged with cruelty. # 1999: a North Carolina grand jury handed down the first-ever felony cruelty indictments against pig-farm workers after an undercover PETA investigator videotaped workers beating lame pigs with wrenches, and skinning and dismembering a conscious pig.
• Yeah, those PETA guys don't do anything. It's a good thing we've got Phillip Morris front groups to tell it like it is.
• I am now officially blind. Thanks Nickdanger, thanks a lot. Where's PETK* when you need them?? * People for the Ethical Treatment of Koko
• I fully support the ASPCA, and while PETA has done a great deal of good in advancing the issue of humane treatment of animals, I simply do not accept their stance on the moral equivalence of humans and animals, or their very GWB-like "with us or against us" angle. But it's also worthwhile to note that PETA indeed does euthanize a substantial portion of the animals which are delivered into their care under the belief and sometimes explicit pretense on PETA's part that they would bring no harm to the animal. How dare they object to euthanasia in county pounds on the one hand and euthanize their charges on the other? This is why I support the ASPCA. They have and coordinate work with explicit "no-kill" shelters who only euthanize the animals in the same circumstances a loving owner would, not merely because they are "unadoptable" and providing care for the animal would funnel valuable money from their propaganda arm.
• Nickdanger, my apologies if I was unclear about my sources, but my opinions about PETA are solely my own. I've never visited an anti-PETA website, nor read the slightest scrap of anti-PETA literature. Believe it or not, I formed my opinions about PETA by researching how they spend their money, and taking the time to carefully consider both their tactics and their message. I gathered this information from their own website, which I have visited periodically over the years. It's easy to assume that everyone who doesn't agree with you has been sucking up the corporate doctrine and asking for more. But it's not always true. Some of us have thought carefully about it, weighed all the factors, gathered research from reliable sources (which is to say, PETA itself) and STILL decided that we don't like PETA. Sorry, but it's true. The "You're either with us or you're a brainwashed animal-hating primitive sub-human" attitude of PETA and its supporters is, to be honest, one of its least appealing attributes. One can be - as I am - an active supporter of animal rights, and still dislike PETA.
• To revise and extend: ASPCA also manages shelters that do have a euthanasia policy after a certain length of time unadopted. But they never claim that euthanasia is immoral or unethical, and they do not harass the public or out-and-out lie about their true priorities, like PETA does. In my opinion, PETA has caused more harm to the cause of humane animal treatment than good. When they claim it is vile and reprehensible to eat meat at all, they do a disservice to those who strive to have all livestock and for-food animals be raised in an environment that resembles their natural environment as much as possible, and closing the loopholes in so-called "free range" laws. My stance on the matter is this: I eat meat, and enjoy it very much. Humans have evolved to be omnivorous, and I believe that there is no moral dilemma in killing an animal for the purpose of food. But I also believe that that animal should have a life that it can generally enjoy, free from constant treatment with antibiotics, free from hormones and free in a field or large open-air enclosure to live in the way that they have evolved to live, until such time as they are humanely slaughtered with due deference to keep any pain or discomfort to an absolute minimum.
• Actually, the most surprising thing I've come across in this thread so far is Nickdanger's quoted "Not counting the dogs and cats PETA spayed and neutered" (up there at the beginning of the thread), which I gather came originally from some anti-PETA propaganda. I wasn't aware that PETA was actually involved in spaying/neutering animals. I checked their website, and I can't find any information on it. (Although I did find an article that purports to be about how you should spay/neuter your pet, but is mostly a big, grisly recounting of all the bad things that happen to animals in general.) Do they really run low/no-cost spay/neuter clinics? That would make me like them a little bit more. In the Seattle area, at least, there are more low/no-cost spay/neuter clinics than you can shake a stick at, but I'm not aware of any being run or funded by PETA.
• I thought PETA had that "animals are not ours for food, entertainment, clothing or milkshakes" philosophy. I LOVE giraffe milkshake.
• Why the CCF is wrong: "PETA should use its millions to hire more biologists and fewer naked college interns.”
• Man, that's the most ass-backward reasoning I've ever seen. Fewer naked college interns?
• Believe it or not, I'm not all that happy with PETA myself. There are plenty of valid critisims about them and their tactics to be made. However, I don't think that the sites Insolent Chimp pointed us to were exactly the most... er... even handed in their analysis. And my ridiculously long (I do apologize for that one) time line of PETA accomplishments was a reminder that they have in fact done some good work in their time, and their accomplishments shouldn't be denigraded because they weren't pulling puppies off rooftops with the SPCA.
• I mean, pointing us to the CCF website is something akin to stating "There are problems with the leadership of Israel" and then posting a link to some neo-nazi group's homepage.
• ...the most surprising thing I've come across in this thread so far is Nickdanger's quoted "Not counting the dogs and cats PETA spayed and neutered..." That came right out of nowhere for me too. It seemed vaguely close to something in the CCF link I posted. And Nick, it's not just the CCF that's slagging PeTA, it's animal rights groups and independant news media as well. Check some of the links here. "In 1997, Ingrid Newkirk, PeTA's founder told the New York Daily News that she'd be the last person to condemn ALF. This year, she reaffirmed her support of the terrorist group with a February interview in Bite Back, the ALF quarterly publication: "A burning building doesn't help melt people's hearts, but times change and tactics, I'm sure, have to change with them," she told Bite Back. "If you choose to carry out ALF-style actions, I ask you to please not say more than you need to, to think carefully who you trust, to learn all you can about how to behave if arrested, and so to try to live to fight another day."" That "but" look out of place for a chiding tone to anyone? I really reccomend reading about who they hire for their spokespersons in this article. It's not just ALF vehemently condoning violence: "In 2002, PeTA hired Gary Yourofsky, a convicted felon who has repeatedly backed violence as a tactic for achieving animal rights goals. In 2001, Yourofsky told the Toledo Blade, "If an animal abuser were killed in a research lab firebombing, I would unequivocally support that, too." In January 2003, Coronado told an American University crowd in Washington DC how to make a simple but effective incendiary device. Arson is Coronado's tool of choice when perpetrating violence against his targets..."
• I mean, pointing us to the CCF website is something akin to stating "There are problems with the leadership of Israel" and then posting a link to some neo-nazi group's homepage. Are you trying to diminish the holocaust with that remark or are you in PeTA? I know they've tried to dimisnish the holocaust with their advertising campaigns. Read the follow up posts.
• Do you beat your wife, or have you stopped? Come on, InsolentChimp, don't be a freaking troll.
• All of this is news to me. With the likes of food, alcohol, and tobacco industries funing the CCF, I take any article I read about this situation with a grain of salt. Ideas are easy to plant and the press is easy to manipulate. I searched snopes for any info regarding PETA Kills Animal and came up with zilch. I have submitted it to them for scrutiny. In the meanwhile, can anyone present an unbiased, definitive statement regarding PETA actions? Also, InsolentChimp, what was your intention of posting the PETA info alongside the disturbing article on the Washington child/animal cruelty case? That turned my stomach and runs the risk of ruining my Thanksgiving, yet, it was worth posting to let people know about the horrible case. Somehow, including your personal vendetta against PETA trivializes both topics.
• zanshin, the case against two peta employees appears genuine, although i couldn't find anything in the ap archives. whether this case is sufficient to damn the entire organization, i'm not sure. anyway, stop reading this stuff and go eat some triptophan
• ...zzzzzzzzzzz...
• insolentchip is falling for PETA's trolling.
• How we treat animals is a complex, subjective issue. It is impossible to apply the same standard of care for every animal, since not all animals are alike. For food animals, they certainly should be treated and killed as humanely as possible. For companion animals, the level of basic treatment is considerably higher. The people who hoard animals do not seem to care about the animals individually, but rather the animals as a species, but they forget that those animals need some level of individual attention as well and they also seem to forget that being able to care for animals responsibly means that you have to be able to take care of yourself responsibly. This doesn't apply in all cases: my mother has a large number of pets, but all are well cared for and each gets the amount of individual attention that it needs and desires. Hoarding cases like the one linked to lead me to believe that the people who collect animals far beyond their capability to care for them are just as disgusting as the people who willingly mistreat animals. When such behaviour goes beyond the animals and leads to the mistreatment of humans, there are not words to express my level of anger.
• Strange, the "PeTA kills animals" meme already showed up in Metafilter not so long ago in a highly suspicious one-link FPP also leading to the CCF. I don't feel the slightest sympathy for PeTA, but this looks awfully like Astroturf.
• If you all could please read all my early comments on the page and follow the links to the various incidents of PETA b.s. you would see the CCF posting was a case of bad judgement meant only to explore the theme of neglect in the Washington case where both a human and animals were victims. Because no one has apparently bothered to read any of these links before responding I can't help but feel trolled seeing that I linked the explanitory links several times in this thread. And for crying out loud, if you can't tell that PETAKILLSANIMALS.whatever is a CCF thing from their blatant explanation and representation, and you have to suspect them, I don't know what to tell you. Just because CCF is an amalgamation of corporate interests including the "evilest of evils" such as Monsanto and PhilMo, doesn't meant that their corroboration of actual news issues is nothing but blatant puppetteering. Christ, I feel like I'm talking to Michael Moore. And what's worse is that that manipulative, bottom-sucking, asshole represents my side of the argument. That's it, thanks for trolling. You're welcome.
• Yeah, I don't give a fuck about the hundred disposable cats and dogs when there's a human forced to live in that shit. Define "vastly"
  Here you go, squirt. That wasn't so hard, was it?
• whiskeyfoxtrottango
• Define "vastly." Here you go, squirt. Was that so hard?
• Hold on, InsolentChimp. I found your links worth considering. But I have never respected PETA because of their monkeywrench approach. Plus, as was mentioned above, they are more into publicity and self-aggrandizement than actual animal welfare. I prefer to support local agencies with demonstrated rescue and shelter missions. On the subject of animal research, I have to take it on a case by case basis. That is not a black and white issue for me. I realize there are many absurd, pointless and cruel "research" programs out there that need to be shut down. There are also some troubling ones which nevertheless may lead to real advances in medicine. Personally, I don't think I can afford to be militant about the animal issue.
• Agreed. The child living in these conditions was horribly abused. But I pity these animal hoarders because they're unhinged.
• I will say that I don't really see the relationship between this pitiful Washington case and PETA. Did I miss their involvement here?
• Thank you cynnbad, I thought I was the only one
• InsolentChimp - I have no love for PETA. I think that their hysteria and "performance art" protesting are the worst possible ways to advocate their cause. However, your post was a bit confusing. A news article from several years ago about an awful situation and a take on PETA's euthanasia practices? I pondered long and weary hours to try to intuit the connection, to no avail. Well, they are both about animal abuse, but didn't address the same issues. The animal hoarding article was about a bad thing that happened, but apparently PETA was neither the perpetrator nor the rescuer. Animal hoarding happens once in a while - there was a case here within the last year where a few hundred dogs, cats and rabbits were abandoned and left to eat by cannabalizing their fellow "pets." The animals were taken out of their hell-hole. Some were adopted and some were killed. It's over and done with. If you had talked about the incidence of hoarding, that might have been interesting. Is it increasing or decreasing? What causes it? You might even have made a seque to PETA if you had any links about what they were doing to stop people hoarding. But, yeah, the way this was put together may not be a true troll, but it does seem as though you conflated 2 issues to get folks up in arms about PETA hoarding some animals and euthanizing others inappropriately. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt as to whether that was intentional.
• I recall reading in the local paper about this case in Tonasket back sometime last January. There was no link whatsoever to PETA. The news at the time made it out to be some sort of animal breeding operation run by the batshitinsane. I can't remember what the legal outcome was but PETA was not involved.
• I. Chimp, did PETA take your puppy? Care to explain the convoluted presentation here? I mean, your links made sense and I am aware of these issues, but why this approach? Not really a challenge, just a question.
• I too thought it was more shocking that a child lived here than animals - I'm a total speciest and will put any human before an animal. There was no heat there - the dogs and cats can live without heat (they like to hang out in the snow naked), but what about the child? And the article said next to nothing about here.
• Why do I utterly despise PETA? Glad you asked. We ran those morally-bankrupt slimy publicity whores the fuck out of Dodge.
• This is where the asinine "not including neutered or spayed animals" quote comes from. I thought I had linked to it, apparently I didn't. From July 1998 through the end of 2004, PETA killed over 12,400 dogs, cats, and other "companion animals" -- at its Norfolk, Virginia headquarters. That's more than five defenseless animals every day. Not counting the dogs and cats PETA spayed and neutered, the group put to death over 85 percent of the animals it took in during 2003 alone
• Well, PETA's doing a bang-up job! If only we could apply that to humans ....
• I realize there are many absurd, pointless and cruel "research" programs out there that need to be shut down. There are also some troubling ones which nevertheless may lead to real advances in medicine. Personally, I don't think I can afford to be militant about the animal issue Tends to be hard to get by the REB in Canada if harm outweighs the benefits, far as I know. As for the posts. I was doing a search when I found the old Washington rescue case. I thought it was unique for my purposes. I know it had nothing to do with PeTA. I used the PeTA link because: The radical tactics of PeTA tend to take an anti-social view of humaninty. I just grabbed any hypocr. link I could find instead plaguing post with multi-links of illogic. CCF caught me too much slag. I thought some people in this jungle were aware of the violent behaviour and criminal encouragement that PeTA perpetrates and that discussion could be spurred on the fact that there was both human and animal victims in the case in regard to PeTA and animal/human abuse. I apologize for responding to trolls with trolls a la the Holocaust trivialization but I'm seriously lacking sleep: spending the last three days compiling a weeks worth of notes that were lost in a technical failure this weekend. Essay due two hours ago. I swear I make sense right now. It just seemed like no one was getting the point because slagging for the CCF post long after I relented/apolog. on the inappropriateness. Still, PeTA = antisocial, neo-luddite, all that. + bag of chips Apologies for zombie attack. Now my browsers acting funny. I like animals, but they don't have personhood. They can have equal rights as humans when they go to jail for indecent expos., murder, ah whatever.
• gosh, ok. I'll let it go until the leviathans get wind. Have a good day/night.
• Good call, moneyjane.
• You people will be crushed by the rightful oppoition. And you know it.
• meaning opposition. But I kid.
• Sorry for harping on the CCR too long, IC. But, I gotta say, I hate those guys.
• Stupid "Bad Moon Rising." I think I meant "CCF". I can't tell for sure, because apparently the tryptophan isn't making me sleepy.
• I was going to say, do not fucking talk shit about Creedence Clearwater Revival, or I will burn your house down with a turkey fryer.
• apparently the tryptophan isn't making me sleepy. No, it's just the gorging. Whaddya have other than turkey?
• PETA’s New Comic for Kids: Taking Aim at Dads Who Fish.
  
• The requisite potatoes, stuffing, and (requisite in my family anyway) calabacitas. But the death blow was, as always, dessert. My wife and mother each made a pumpkin pie, aunt brought a pecan pie and I made a cornmeal/molasses pudding that, if I may say so, was to die for. So, we died. x___x
• So this "Tonasket, Washington: where high school sports rule the news and countless acts of animal cruelty are found." - gem is still alive?? InsolentChimp: Have you been to Tonasket? Do you know anything about this case apart from what Google tells you? You yell too loud and then try to defend your yelling is what I have to say.
• Not to ever try to help PETA out, but its factory farming of chickens and pigs that lets flu spread quickly through animal populations creating opportunities for human exposure. So, if people (in S.E. Asia) were vegans, there would probably be much less likelihood of cross-species transmission. On the other hand, this wonderfully biased paper seems to indicate that they said people will catch it from chicken breasts bought at their grocers. Knowing people, I would think that that would be what they WANT to happen, not something they would warn people against.
• Mord, you may want to rethink that remark. As it turns out, in NA the major vector and resevoir for the avian flu problems are the wild duck populations. Free-range birds are most at risk to the virus because they have the most contact with the wild populations. Factory birds kept in sanitary conditions (foot washes, sealed-air systems, etc...) have much lower risk of infection. The problem is so great that the Canadian food regulators (CFIA) are considering requiring that all poultry for sale in Canada be raised in "factory" conditions to avoid disease exposure.
• This makes me so sad, because when people horde animals like that, it's got to start with the intention to take care of them. I think it probably just gets out of hand, gets ahead of them, and then they don't know where to turn, or are too embarassed to try to get help. I feel badly for the animals, the little girl, and for the entire family.
• when people horde animals like that Bananas for best incorrect use of homophone that ought to be correct!
• ring, ring, ring, ring - homophone!
• whored?
• Heard.
• Oh, damn. But it WAS a good one, at least. Hoard, horde, whored. Since I'm usually the grammar police, I deserve to be bitten by a bat. Horton whored a herd.
• A hoary bat?
• I'm NOT a bat!!! -much-
• So this "Tonasket, Washington: where high school sports rule the news and countless acts of animal cruelty are found." - gem is still alive?? InsolentChimp: Have you been to Tonasket? Do you know anything about this case apart from what Google tells you? Apart from what google tells me? Yes, actually I hired a private investigator to look into it for me. Then I assembled a crack team of reporters to interview every member of the community. Get your head out of your ass and think about what you said. Tonasket is south of Osoyoos on some interstate. Small town. I'll bet less than a thousand people and likely they're mostly old. Don't blink. You yell too loud and then try to defend your yelling is what I have to say. Shit! I am a news source! stirfry, take a pill. The tagline was facetious. Note that the case is old. I'm not trying to slag a community; I attempted to establish atmosphere. In other news: I passed out last night half done my paper and as a result I have slept for half a day. FishTroll on.
• I believe that most birds are raised on farms near people in China, not in factory farm style.
• Tonasket seems to me to be a little more liberal(pdf) and arty than a sports town, really.
• The tagline was facetious. Note that the case is old. I'm not trying to slag a community; I attempted to establish atmosphere. So am I with the following: You're a fucking troll.
• Tonasket seems to me to be a little more liberal(pdf) and arty than a sports town, really. posted by grover96 at 11:24PM UTC on November 25, 2005 Like any little country burg, it has its good and bad. The good is the spectacular location, the retired hippies( most old by now), and the laid back atmosphere. The bad is.....I dunno...lack of jobs, I'd guess. It just irked me to see this kneejerk shit about "where high school sports rule the news and countless acts of animal cruelty are found" added to a post about some batshitinsane types who could be found anyplace. Probably more of those in some more populated area like Toronto or NYC. I'm not from Tonasket, its just that I like to support the underdog. *oops, that may not be the best way to put it here* and IMonkey....excuses like lack or excessive sleep don't change a crap post.
• Alright people, let's all just step away from the thread... That's right, nice and easy, relaxed, even... yep relaxed, just couple of friends hangin' out and talkin' about PETA, everything's cool... everything's cool... everything's cool...
• Was the original post about PETA? Coulda fooled me.
• Little bit.
• is you perhaps a cousin to this FPP posterchild? jest wonderin' why the moderatin'.
• But I MUST get in lather over this. It's required. Chimp posts a questionable de facto assertion about PETA. We lash, he/she lashes back. But Chimp excuses the deception as an attempt to "establish atmosphere?" So anything goes? As long as it's properly framed. Naughty Chimp. Calling a person a "fucking troll" are fighting words in my book, because they shut off discussion, and despite some questionable moves on the Chimp's part, I will surely defend his/her right to express any and all opinions.
• Calling a person a "fucking troll" are fighting words in my book, because they shut off discussion,.... You misunderstand. I was establishing atmosphere.
• stirfry, maybe you should take a break from this thread. Resorting to petty namecalling is pointless. If you actually have an answering argument to present (and it seems you do, at least as far as the Tonasket link goes), then maybe put it forward in a more civilised way, like in your response to grover96. "You're a fucking troll" is just...bad.
• la di dah.
• like in your response to grover96. "You're a fucking troll" is just...bad. That is the problem of having a thread that rolls one poster after another. I have no problem with grover96, and thought that would be obvious. My problem is with the original FPP poster who dances around the fact of his or her mixed up and offensive post. What you take an offensive statement, and I meant it as such, was aimed at InsolentChimp. I apologise to the other monkeys who may have misunderstood.
• Re: bonehead No, I don't think I need to rethink. Factory farms in North America are much much better than the conditions in S.E. Asia. However, I personally think the risk of human exposure to wild ducks to be grossly overstated. Unsanitary factory farms where they have been dosing chckens with tamiflu almost as if they wanted to create resistance is where this fire is going to start.
• What is your problem with InsolentChimp? His/her original post has already been questioned.
• not to ignore you cynnbad, since you ask a question and I assume it isn't of Mord, the previous poster, but I have nothing else to say here.
• No, don't know much about Mord, and he's obsessed with chickens right now, and you being stirfry, obviously I'm hungry....
• Hoard, horde, whored. Werd.
• Stirring to stir is not "establishing atmosphere", Mssr. Stirfry. Now I'm Alright.
• heh
• Holy. Shit. Monkeys tearing out throats! RUN FOR YOUR LIVES
• Stiil, that's a really weird post.
• Reread my comment: badly presented as it was, I knew exactly who you were calling a "fucking troll". I still say it was bad form and unnecessary, no matter who you say it to. Save your offensive comments for elsewhere, please. That is all.
• PeTA are embarrassing and hypocritical and the worst argument at times but I'm not going to buy the astroturf efforts of a corporate front organization (so excused) nor the followup opinion pieces - which, for the exception of the canada free press article - were weak at best. A Newsmax article? Shit man, why not toss 64 blog entries and a handful of liverwurst in there. PeTA euthanizes animals while simultaneously making very public connections of meat-eating to killing people. Point taken. Anything else? Theres a hella bunch of vitrol in the post, so what's the story? Factory farming is unconscionable. Meat is unnecessary. Eating what you hunt / fish for is okay. Free range is better than the factory farms. Do what you can. Naked co-eds rule.
• You know who I love? Johnny Cash. I miss that man. I'm thinking about going to see "Walk the Line," but I'm worried I won't enjoy it, even though reviewers I trust have given it glowing press. It's Joaquin Phoenix, I think, but then I can't imagine accepting any known actor as Johnny Cash. I'm also drinking canned light beer right now, because they were out of the bottled stuff at the supermarket. I can't drink water, because I had to shut the water off to my house to replace my bathtub hardware. I love you.
• I'm not too torn up about Joaquin but I am really upset about Reese Witherspoon. Why her? Why?
• I also want to see Walk the Line. I can actually buy both actors in the parts (when they make the meredithea movie, Reese Witherspoon gets first crack at the lead role), but I've been burned by biopics before! That said, I would love to get my hands on one of the posters. They're gorgeous.
• OK, this is now officially the weirdest thread I've ever seen.
• Stick around, kid. Oh and browse the Eek!ed posts if you haven't already. But you're right. This is pretty damned weird. And what's wrong with Reese Witherspoon anyway? Besides that her name sounds like some sort of horrible zombie candy, which I never noticed before.
• It's a great movie MCT. A little too slow-paced for me, but Joaquin has the mannerisms down really well. And I was big time impressed with Reese.
• Am I shallow because I can't get past that thing on Joaquin's lip?
• Plot summary: Immature man plays music with gospel roots. Has past that involves dead sibling from childhood, good mother, shitty father. Music mogul tells him he has to change sound. Changes sound. Music becomes wildly popular. Man gets into drugs and loses self in popularity. Marriage to sweetheart begins to fall apart as man has extramarital affair with woman he sings with. Drugs contribute heavily to downfall of singer. Man kicks the nasty drug habit and goes on to be become a perfect human being who regains his musical touch and lives happily ever after. Okay, the quiz is this: Is that a more accurate plot summary for 1- Ray, or 1- Walk the Line?
• very pleasantly surprised. Career-making performances for Phoenix and Witherspoon. Slightly plotless, but didn't fall as badly into the biopic trap (it happened in real life, therefore we must show it, no matter how irrelevant to the film it is) as I had feared.
• And this is a miles miles miles better film than the well-intentioned bore that was "Ray."
• "Am I shallow because I can't get past that thing on Joaquin's lip?" -- Lara That doesn't make you shallow at all. I haven't been able to get past the lips of many women.
• I'm thinking someone obfuscated, and then another got banned/chastised here, and you're talking about a movie?! You guys astound and amaze with your nonchalance. Maybe I'm too tightly wound.
• I guess it would be the wrong time to point out that there are kids starving in Africa... *hides*
• OK, it's all about the O. Nothing more.
• Lara - the community gathered in the auditorium and made their feelings known. Once that was over, they streamed out the door, chatting about stuff like recent movies. Kinda like real life, but more of us got to hear the discussion.
• Actually, that should have directed at cynnbad.
• So, path, I must be the last muttering malcontent trailing out of the auditorium, drifting into the night...
• I've just noticed the $19 Gap long-sleeved t-shirt thingy I'm wearing exactly matches the paint on my kitchen cupboards, which exactly matches the steamed snowpeas I stole off my friend's plate at Hon's yesterday. Too many coincidences. I hear the helicopters.
• WTF? I'll back away slowly. I only meant the best.
• cynnbad, not what I'm saying. You've been around long enough to have noticed that when folks have nothing new to add to the thread discussion, they socialize. Sometimes they get back together later and reopen the original discussion, but I'm not sure there was much more to be said about the original post on this one. But, if you thought it was a geat post, and had anything new and interesting to add about PETA you could argue your case. That might get more on topic discussion going. And on preview, I didn't see anything that indicated you should back away. If you're not into the end-of-thread follies, don't take it personally. It's just monkey chat. Has nothing to do with anything serious. But, if you read it as comics for a while, you may bet a taste for it. If not, take someone's arm and chat about shoes and ships and sealing wax and things as you leave, or just enjoy the humor and go to the next thread for more discussion. This is all transitory.
• path, dear, you have been gunning for me for a while. Leave it alone.
• cynnbad, you've got a serious case of paranoia if you think that path is attacking you in any way, form or manner. She is in fact being very nice about the fact that you show up like some self-righteous malcontent whenever things get a little light in a thread you deem is important, and then get all passive-aggressive at anyone who tries to compromise with you. And you almost never have anything constructive to add. See that paragraph I just wrote? That is gunning. I can provide more examples if you like, for comparison with path's extremely gentle patience with you.
• This is the flame that wouldn't end Yes it goes on and on my friend...
• I had a long and pointed reply to this, but suffice to say that all is good. The end.
• Imagine my surprise when I get back from Thanksgiving (it was awful, but this was not a surprise) only to find this thread - which I really only participated in because I was dragging my feet over leaving for Thanskgiving festivities - is still alive! Aliiiiive! I have, off and on over the last three brutal days, been wondering if there's a PETA corollary to Godwin's Law. Maybe Godwin's Law subsection 1A should involve PETA threads. They do seem to go on forever, and hurt everyone's feelings for no apparent reason. Good way to kill an hour when you're putting off unpleasant chores, though.
• Well, that was certainly weird.
• Cynnbad, it looks like the PETA thing is pretty well worn out. We could start something else. YOUR OPERATING SYSTEM OF CHOICE SUCKS!!! How's that?
• >Cynn's comment, that is.<
• End.
• Since we're doing peta and hitler, hows about tossing in an abortion debate for the ultimate hell ride trifecta
• Ok, I'll lighten up. I put on my pinafore and I curled my ringlets. Croquet, anyone?
• moneyjane: That's my favorite color right now, that pea green-y color.
• pea green-y color It is the best colour ever, I agree. So much so I have an sturdy set of enameled pasta pot, colander and mixing bowls, and a special me-decreed Horlicks-only mug I got at Starbucks for $2.99 in the very same most excellent shade.
• Why, cynnbad, are you making fun of my mallet?
• That's my favorite color too! I just don't like Joachim Phoenix, and it's not just the lip thing. He's just kinda ... off-putting. If I'm going to play croquet, I have to get the red ball. I always get the red ball. I have a very, very bad toothache.
• Probably from eating MEAT! /shit-disturber
• I actually like the lip. And Joaquin is fine, pretty good actor. I think it's that there have been maybe five northern actors in the entire history of film who could do a decent southern accent. Seriously.
• This thread is in danger of getting nice again. Therefore, I have this to say: HEY!!! FUCK ALL OF YOU!!!!
• What I can't understand is why with one of the worst defences in the division, Dario's doing nothing about it. The window for loans closed today and we didn't bring anyone in, so that means we're stuck with the same back four that've shipped such a ridiculous amount of goals so far. That and getting Luke Rodgers in only to stick him on the bench while all the usual suspects fail to score. Relegation looks nailed on I'd say.
• I don't follow badminton, sorry.
• Badminton? Surely he's talking about the Sonoma County Covered Bridge Society Annual-General Meeting, which I wanted to attend last night but couldn't make it because I was thinking about the thing on Joaquin Phoenix's lip.
• Might as well be be fucking badminton, at least failing to hit the net is a bonus there. Mumble, mutter
• there was one part in the movie I thought went on a bit long. You guys remember this: WARDEN: Mr. Cash, could you please refrain from singing any more songs that remind the prisoners they're in prison? CASH: You think they forgot? WARDEN: Well, not literally of course, but.. CASH: Ok, so let me get this straight. You've got them wearing black and white striped uniforms, they're surrounded by huge stone walls... WARDEN: I was speaking metaphorically- CASH: You've got armed guards with guns watching them, I'm sure they're all thinking "gee I wonder where I am- I just clean up and forgot until that Cash guy sang a song and reminded me." WARDEN: the point I was trying to make- CASH: I'm sure they wake up every morning and look around and say "hmmm, stone walled room with metal bars a toilet and another man in a black and white striped uniforn living in it- I must be at the Ritz hotel." WARDEN: Mr Cash, you've made your point. I was nice enough to let you play your concert here, I'd appreciate it if you didnt- CASH: So let me get this straight: you're suggesting that, prior to my arrival, it had actually, literally slipped the minds of the prisoners that they were in prison? I just want to get this straight, for the record. [they argue like this for 14 more minutes] WARDEN: Jesus, what a dick. Don't kill yourself on any table-saws on the way out.