November 20, 2005

• What are recommended movies/DVD's for him to watch. please put a '?' at the end of that.
• Play School is quite brilliant, although you will need a region-free DVD player to watch it.
• (You can get a little look at it in the Kids' Video Room.)
• I don't know what would be good for a kid that small, but if you want some general good kid stuff: Puff The Magic Dragon holds up pretty well, it's not the sappy, hippy drivel you might expect (though I never had patience for old looking stuff as a kid, I don't know if that's universal). The Muppets and Fragle Rock will probably scare the piss out of him, but you should let him watch them anyway. For TV shows I would recomend The Kids Next Door (well made cartoon, funny for adults but probably won't give your kid anything to really annoy you with), Fairly Odd Parents (Same, but might give your kid things to annoy you with), and there's a ton of good stuff on The Nicktoons Network (warning:music).
• Little kids like repetetive stuff which they can come to recognize, most of which drives parents crazy. My advice is to read to him, if you aren't (though I'd guess you are.) There are (used to be?) some wonderful books out there in places you'd never expect. When my 36 year old daughter was about 18 months old, I found a book called Hopitty in the local Safeway. It was a sweet story with great illustrations. I had to read it to her every night for at least a year (along with other books.) It was cheaply made, so I think we went through 3 copies. I still check the kids' book section in the grocery store occasionally, just in case... The Doctor Suess stuff that took over later was never as satisfying for me, but I can still recite most of Green Eggs and Ham, having chanted it so many times. And, I feel good that my daughter grew up loving books better than tv, etc. There's just something about a book...
• The original "Baby Einstein" videos, especially the animal ones, were very popular with our daughter at that age. Obviously Alex Ander does not have children. None of those shows are appropriate for a child of that age. I am reluctant to let my 4-year-old watch "Fairly Odd Parents" or anything else on Nickelodeon.
• I see it as a good/evil thing. Good Evil
• If you liked the Banana Splits, Sid and Marty Krofft stuff like Bugaloos, or the Monkees, you'll definitely dig Bzots. It's a musical series about three industrial assembly line robots that escape from the factory and start a band, and the music's actually pretty excellent.
• I'm not saying I approve of the gender stereotypes or anything, but Bob the Builder is huge among my nephews.
• boohbah If you want find out what mind altering drugs do to you, but are not willing to take drugs, watch this show. Get your kids familiar with books, it can make all the difference. Also, good call Argh
• It may be a year too early, but my son was a huge fan of the Nelvana produced Little Bear tv series. I'm sure they'd be available as DVDs too. Basically a series of episodes that revolve around a little bear (hence the title) child, and his friends, who are of differing species. What I really like about it is that they are all, well, Very Nice. Without being cloyingly so. They all live in a fairly peaceful world, where people are nice to each other. Actually, anything I've seen by Nelvana, I've appreciated. Another TV things I loved (as did my son) is Old Bear and Friends.
• Well, I will go along with Boobah, although reluctantly. My son moves along with it. And he is gaga over the Wiggles, which drives me nuts. I like many of the Nelvana productions. Little Bear, Franklin (my personal favorite--music is done by Bruce Cockburn, who I am a big fan of). There is also Little Einstein's which is on Disney, one of the very few reason's to watch this channel. PBS is always a safe bet AFAIAC. But ultimately, as I am sure you know, books, books, books. They will make all the difference. I don't know what it is about Barney. My, kids three and seven, LOVE Barney although, like you, I cannot stomach it. Something else to remember, try and watch with your child. That always helps.
• Oh, yes, definitely "Little Bear". I still love Little Bear myself, even though my child is no longer all that interested.
• Our 22-month old son would say, in order: 1) Wiggles (Wiggle Time, Toot Toot, and Dance Party are best) 2) Pee-Wee's Playhouse -- available as box-set DVDs with like 40 episodes 3) Teletubbies (sometimes, mostly for the dancing bear in the UFO) 4) Winnie-the-Pooh He does not watch much TV, and can't stand any of the newer Disney stuff.
• jacbo, thanks. We just killed 45minutes w/boohbah.
• While Blue's Clues is repetitive, it's not nearly as grating as a lot of kids' shows. The music-oriented ones are particularly easy for me to sit through. If you decide to go the cable TV route? I find Noggin to be the least annoying kids' channel overall. Our hands-down favorite show, which sadly isn't on DVD yet? Oobi. There is no middle ground with Oobi, though...you either love it for the detailed sets and subtle cleverness, or you hate talking hands with pingpong ball eyes and Yoda-style grammar.
• Little kids like repetetive stuff which they can come to recognize, most of which drives parents crazy. That there Path, she don't spel so gooder, but dang, she know 'bout them lil'uns. Yes, kids that age love to watch the same thing over and over, and they really are content to watch stuff that we think has no content. My grandkids love to watch a DVD called Baby Prodigy, with Doofy Duck. Most movies, TV, etc. a toddler can't follow the plot, and the dialogue, references, jokes, etc go over their head. If my grandkids watch a movie geared at the older set, it winds them up. When they watch Doofy Duck, they calm down and relax. It's a good'n for the kiddos. Mr Rogers is excellent, too. I know a lot of adults just gag, but he's good for young kids in many ways. Most tots crack up at the sun-baby on Teletubbies. The TTs are harmless to children--I promise Tinky Winky won't make your child gay. Two DVDs that you might not mind having on: Kids usually love Fantasia. With a wee one, you might have to skip the Devil on Bald Mountain. That can be a bit much. The musics good and the animations are still great stuff. Enjoy it for the historical aspect. The other DVD, oddly enough, is Yellow Submarine. My grandkids LOVE that thing. The 7 yo is finally old enough to follow the plot, the 5 yo is figuring out who the bad guys are and getting a feel for what comes next, and the 3 yo just loves the colors and the music. The 21 mo just thinks it's a hoot--it's probably warping her mind, but hey, whatever. Don't forget home video or slideshows of your digital pics. Kids love to watch themselves, pets, and the people they know again and again, especially if you're occasionally willing to do the narration. Read. Read. Read. Make your own picture books with simple stories. Even little kids go batshit for that, and it helps older kids read. Take photos or make your own simple drawings (you DON'T have to be an artist--the kid doesn't care) then laminate them. Write a simple story. Here is Timmy. See Timmy play with the blocks. B is for block. This is Fido. Timmy loves the puppy. Simple stuff. Then take the laminated pictures/photos and put them between two pieces of cardboard, punch 4-5 holes, and lace together with a string. That'll be Jr.s favorite book till it falls apart. Easily replaced also. One of the grandkids' favorite is the Places Book--grocery store, day care, school, gas station --real life places. There's a simple map in the back and even the three year old can now "navigate" around town.
• Thanks for the suggestions everyone, many of them have been added to my Netflix que. We intentionally bypassed the TV for these first 20mos, and have focused on books and games. Richard Scarry has been a favorite. So far I have found the best videos are the ones don't translate well into books -- Sesame Street, TTubbies, etc. Gotta say, I love anything that makes him smile.
• I don't have kids, but my sister is 15 years younger than me and I have babysat (babysitten?) many kids in my day, so take this advice for what it's worth. The stuff Nickelodeon shows early in the day can be ok for the little ones. The ones that I have seen and particularly enjoyed are Blues Clues and Dora the Explorer. The former is good because it teaches basic problem solving and is repetitive -- they show the same ep all week, so the kid can get comfortable with how it goes and learn the logic inherent in the episode. Dora is good because it teaches basic Spanish. The problem that I have with lots of programming for young children is that it teaches them to mimic a form of false, cutesy enthusiasm. (Barney is the worst offender, here.) I can't tell you how many times I've babysat little kids who think they have to act like (bad) child actors, and it makes me sad. I prefer the anarchic nutsiness that kids naturally display.
• I wish I could find DVDs of the Electric Company. That's the show that helped me learn to read back in the day. (I keep meaning to send Morgan Freeman a fan letter about that.)
• Thomas the tank engine.
• No offense, but is getting a TV important for raising your kid? I mean, if you think the benefits outweight the costs (some mild entertainment, possible educational worth vs. crappy programming, utter dreck, increasing amount of sexual-related imagery (for a young kid, I don't think it's healthy), then go for it. But my vote is to stay TV free and just get the kid some good books (I recommend Richard Scarry, Beatrix Potter, Berenstein Bears, etc) and occasionally rent or buy some kid-friendly video media from Wal-Mart (they've got a ton of it).
• on preview: Yes to Thomas the Tank. My kid nephew loves TtT and all things related to trains, planes, and automobiles.
• ARGHHHHHHHHHH! Developmentally, Teletubbies and Boohbah are about the WORST FUCKING THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY SHOW YOUR DEVELOPING CHILD. I cannot possibly stress this enough. Children at that age, before their speech is entirely perfect, need to be constantly hearing the rhythms and cadence of their own first (and possibly second) language(s) being spoken. It is imperative that they learn this as early as possible, and better language development -- and not only that, but children being SPOKEN to as actual people, not in baby talk -- early in life is strongly correlated with intelligence, reading ability, and various other things you don't want your child missing out on. Teletubbies and Boohbah don't teach a language -- ANY language. They teach nonsense with pretty colors that makes no actual sense. This is also the age at which your child should start learning cause and effect relationships. Shows with an actual plot are good for this. Shows like Teletubbies and Boohbah make no sense, plot-wise. Additionally, television only helps a child's development if it's something you talk about with your child afterward and during. You can talk about an episode of, say, Sesame Street or Fraggle Rock. What's there to say about Teletubbies? "Oh, look, there they are again!"? Choose shows and movies that foster discussion about themes, characters, cause and effect relationships, and emotions. Choose shows that MAKE SENSE. Even if your child wants to watch The Lion King 500000000 times, it's better than putting them in front of the Teletubbies once. Teletubbies and Boohbah are a bit like drugs for children -- they're pretty, hypnotic, and they enjoy them plenty. But they don't help in their growth or development and waste time in the most critical years of their lives. Blue's Clues is marginally better -- as is Dora the Explorer -- but not by too fucking much. Basically, if you show it to your kid before they can get the "clues" and participate, they're given a positive reaction even when they don't figure out the answer. "THERE! You got it! WE JUST FIGURED OUT BLUUUUES CLUES! WE JUST FIGURED OUT BLUUUUUES CLUES, BECAUSE WE'RE REALLY SMART!" Again, you're not teaching cause and effect -- in fact, you're teaching it incredibly wrongly. if you want, play a GAME equivalent to Blue's Clues. Plant your own clues. But for the love of god, don't show your children that no matter what they actually answer, Joel or whatever is going to say "THAT'S RIGHT!" Children of that age also have some difficulty separating television fantasy from reality. Characters talking directly to them and demanding the answers from them...well, that's not helping too much. Sesame Street did this, but in a more impersonal way -- "if you said _____, you're right!" Show your children television with plot, actual human language, and valid cause and effect relationships. And don't substitute interaction with television characters for interaction with you. You quizzing your child about theme and plot will do them a hell of a lot more good than "BECAUSE WE'RE REALLY SMART!" ever will.
• Oh, and if you don't think television has any effect on your developing child's language skills, I can suggest several books full of both studies and anecdotal evidence that suggest otherwise -- children today learn language rapidly up to the level of the television they watch, and then learn much more slowly unless they are constantly exposed to more sophisticated language at home. But if they're placated with Teletubbies and Boohbah all day...seriously, that's child crack, and it's just as harmful.
• And another thing (sorry)...I was watching Fraggle Rock, Muppet Babies, Rainbow Brite, She-Ra, and Winnie the Pooh at age 20 months, and I don't believe any of those shows were "inappropriate" at all. What's inappropriate about a Nickelodeon show? Good god. Yeah, let's not show them anything that'll actually make them expand their brain or teach them new words or that has an actual theme we have to talk about -- or, god forbid, behaviors that are bad that require us to discuss them with our children. That would be terrible. If we have to do that, why would we let the TV babysit in the first place, right?
• Hey, musing, why don't you take a chill pill? Mkay. BTW, how old are YOUR children?
• I recommend a steady diet of wholesome puppetry and a normal, loving family. Or something.
• musingmelpomene, no offence, but please do not tell me how to develop my son's lanquage skills. He, on average, watches approximately 1hr of dvd's a day -- never alone. The other 14 waking hours are spent listening to and communicating with educated adults in English and Mandarin. If you will notice, my posting was a request for recommendations. Do you have any? What did you grow up watching? Having read your profile and the above comment leads me to believe that you could use some further development in your 'language skills.' (on preview, I see what you grew up on.)
• uh, thanks, coppermac.
• I wasn't really reccomending boobah. It was kinda a joke (I'm glad Zanshin understood it) But... At 20 months, the infant brain is in the process of defining and refining the neural networks that will allow it, in later life, to understand and make use of what the eyes are seeing. How to go about the best way of doing this is very much up the the parents. Boobah IS nonsensical crap, but to a forming infant brain, video like that helps them develop the visual cortex. But the world outside will do a far better job. Further reading..... http://faculty.washington.edu/robinet/exam2s04KEY.doc It's a bit of a read. A google for kitten vertical lines experiment will yeld a wealth of results that may be of interest. And DO NOT do those experiments at home.
• Nobody is suggesting any child watch more than a smattering of Boohbah. For what it's worth, it seems to me a pretty credible stab at what a little kid's sense of humour is actually like. Colour, movement, music, appear/disappear, this sort of thing. And yes, I am professionally qualified to voice an opinion on this matter, as well as having a small child.
• (Also, Bear in the Big Blue House has some excellent episodes on music.)
• Zanshin, your son looks tall for 20 months! Is he or is it just the angle of the shots?
• Little bit of both. He is tall, but if you are looking at the shots on my wife's blog, they are a little decieving.
• Electric Company is coming out on DVD soon. I was rather older than 20 months when I watched it, but I think it's pretty good for younger 'uns. Lots of bright colours and interesting sounds and songs.
• Um I don't think my comments will help but - I had no television as a child - I was an outcast but I got over not being able to talk about the programs - I live with a television brought up child it is hell on occasion. I cannot zone out and am constantly interrupting and challenging and destroying the viewers enjoyment - personally I prefer my side of life. However if you want your child to assimilate go the television route - try the Wiggles I believe they have endless fascination without too much commercial influence
• There is something stunningly hilarious about someone going ballistic in a thread about children's TV shows.
• someone going ballistic Sorry!
• a friend's two+ year old enjoys dora the explorer. my nine-month old thoroughly enjoys the baby einstein programs, especially the puppets. baby einstein feels like disguised advertising to me :-(
• /armed with a perfect excuse, off to buy a copy of yellow submarine
• And yes, I am professionally qualified to voice an opinion on this matter, as well as having a small child. Pimping your child? That's awful!
• Zanshin, Schoolhouse Rock is on DVD.
• I thought Boobah was intended to get kids moving? It was advertised here as a kid's exercise show. I would agree that it's probably a good idea to avoid anything where the characters talk baby talk, but you already know that :) (In fact, my mom went so far as to ban Sesame Street for my sister because of the way Elmo talked.) My parents were really vigilant about avoiding baby talk, and my sister and I were both talking really early and reading by age 4. (Math is another story entirely...)
• Pah! If "Elmo" was truly bad for you, then I would have grown up to be an incredibly annoying inane shithead that you'd want to strangle on sight.
• I have a son who has just turned two. He loves Dora and we sit and talk about the places she needs to go. He has picked up a lot more information than I thought he would. I have also watched Boohbah with him and it in no way stunts his language: he likes to talk about the story people episodes and discuss what is happening (not a lot, but that gives me time to explain it better!) And Thomas, although I quite dislike a lot of the stories, he likes to announce the emotions on the engines' faces. My son has excellent language skills: slow-moving shows where you can talk to your child are good at this age I think...
• Whatever shows you choose to watch, you want to be aware of the merchandising. One of our friends made the mistake of introducing their son to Thomas the Tank Engine. Several hundred dollars later, they're regretting it. (But he can identify all of the trains though!)
• I'm a big believer in the old stand-bys. Sesame Street, Mr. Rogers, etc. I honestly believe that one of the major influences on my interests and development was the fact that, at dinner time, my parents ALWAYS put on the NBC network news -- influential to the point that, when I was 3 I asked my parents to part my hair in such a way that it would look like Tom Brokaw's hair.
• Heh... our toddler is a big fan of the orchestral "boom boom boom" bumper music of the McNeil Lehrer Report. He perks up and listens closely whenever he hears it. We rarely have regular TV on anymore, but back in Austin we had dropped cable/DSS and my wife used to watch that program to get her news fix. The baby talk issue that musingmelpomene, meridithea, and others bring up is certainly worth considering. Personally I'm bothered by the way Elmo mixes up all the pronouns... it's certainly harmless in the long run but I don't care much for giving our son a whole run of confusing language structure, so Sesame Street is not shown at this house. Teletubbies is ok, though... there's nothing inherently wrong about the way they speak; it's just not how adults talk. Electric Company is coming out on DVD soon. It's about time! I was starting to look for torrents of this show. (there are none) I have a few recordings from Noggin before they yanked all the good stuff... I'm hoping to dig them out one of these days.
• come to think of it, the whites, colored cotton, and mixed programs are big winners with my son. don't bother with a telly, just pull up chairs in front of the washing machine.
• Electric Company is coming out on DVD soon. How exciting! Even though it's very much a product of the seventies, I can't recommend it enough for kids who are coming up on reading age. It's a great introduction to phonics, and the diversity of its cast is a good corrective to the homogeneity on most television.
• Anyone who loves his or her child is going to throw the evil TV out the window and raise the kid in the same way I and everyone I know who's halfway sane was raised: You make the kid recite Bible passages from memory while kneeling, naked, on dried peas, and if the kid messes up, you burn the kid with a curling iron.
• Boohbah is so trippy. I watched it, once, in the US to see what it was like. It seems like Teletubbies on acid to me. Ethan was mostly stunned by it the day we watched it, right around his second birthday. Shows he likes have a lot of slapstick humour: Mr Bean and Pingu are big favourites. Aside from that he enjoys Blue's Clues and Clifford the Big Red Dog, both of which are educational in different ways as well as entertaining. As far as DVDs, we have most of the animated Pixar stuff and a copy of Singin' in the Rain which Ethan watches. Musicals are always good, whether specifically aimed at kids or not ^[1]. If we're watching something more grownup in the evening while he's going through his bedtime routine, he'll sneak a peek. He likes Stewie on Family Guy but we had to curtail that when he started singing the opening lyrics: "...violence in movies and sex on TV..." ^[1]I took him with me to see Chicago (a mother and baby showing) when he was six weeks old. He fell asleep to the music, despite the ear-bashing volume.
• Pimping your child? That's awful! *slaps dickhead*
• I don't really think that showing kids baby talking stuff like Telletubbies is going to retard them. People that think that are probably mental. I fucking watched Bill & Ben the Flowerpot Men who only say 'flobalob' and had a reading age of 18 when I was 10, so...
• Yes, musingmelpomne, you hgave to be careful with children. Otherwise they grow up and become pathological liars. TV doesn't make much difference to the most basic language aquisition skills - we've found this out the hard way when deaf parents have tried to use TV to help their hearing kids aquire language; it doesn't work that well.
• You're welcome, Zanshin. Sorry if my post just appeared as a snark, but I thought a little levity was in need. And what better way to bring levity to a thread than with Eraserhead? I think I raised my brood of viperlings far too long ago (before the advent of vcrs, let alone dvd players) to be of much practical use, but we were never tv people anyway. Reading was our thing, as was listening to all sorts of loud, wild bombastic music (you haven't lived until you've had a child sent home from school with a note from the teacher asking you to discourage your son from telling the other junior screechers about the wonders of rawk).
• There's nothing wrong with letting kids watch a little TV. I watched plenty as a kid, and my own children enjoy it, too. It hasn't impacted their love of reading in any way. Besides, I'm not interested in raising any bookish, asocial brainiacs who don't fit in with other kids because they're not up on the popular culture. And I'm with coppermac on the music thing...a good appreciation of rock and rebellion is healthy for young tykes. (I'm hoping you tore up the note in front of your kids as an example of the proper response to such nonsense)
• I was raised as a bookish, asocial braniac who knew far too much about popular culture. My family was always amazed that I could be watching tv and reading a book and could answer questions about the plot of both.
• That's funny coppermac!! Reminds me of getting much entertainment watching my son, at 18 months old, rocking out to AC/DC's "Back in Black"!!! It was a beautiful thing.
• fwiw ianad, but the american academy of pediatrics recommends 0 hours of television per day for toddlers. i agree. flame me
• I'd second Pee-Wee's Playhouse. That was always alot of fun to watch as a kid. Apparently my little cousins are wild about it.
• Well I gave my toddler 4 hours of the american academy of pediatrics per day and now he just plays golf all the damn time.
• Good grief, Rodgered, is that link for real?
• I recommend giving your toddler to the American Academy of Pediatrics for four hours a day so you can watch TV. Ethan's favourite song is Satisfaction, either the Rolling Stones' version or the live Bjork/PJ Harvey cover.
• *slaps dickhead* I didn't mean literally pimping, Wolof. But, out of curiousity, in what realm of child-care/entertainment work do you operate?
• Oh, so I was just pretend pimping her on a message board. Well, that's all right then.
• BlueHorse: Yes, yes it is.
• InsolentChimp - Wolof, like most of us who have children, learns something every day we spend with them. I still learn stuff from my 37 year old. Wolof's child is at the bestest learning time, and will be for a long time. I don't think he was claiming to be a child care specialist, but, if you check out his background (you do know how to use the Mofi search function and Google,don't you?) you'll find that he has a range of experience that I think would give him the ability to guide a child to deal with everyday life and to conquer the world, if she wanted to. So what are your bona fides in the child care area? But, you don't need to answer, since I think you have none.
• I have a qualification in developmental psychology.
• I find it interesting that my simple question has sparked quite a few emotional and charged exchanges. Myself included. Something that I discovered early on is that being a parent forces one to become in touch with their inner-caveman/woman. Many a time my protective instinct has flared in the name of parenting and created some ugly situations. I generally find it best to count to 10 and laugh it off.
• Zanshin is right, this stuff gets heated fast. We be cool, chimp of insolence, but you could possibly lay off the child prostitution jokes in the future.
• path, I never claimed any. And thanks for the stalk tips. Wolof, it's all good. I wasn't insulting you.
• Just for the record, tho', Wolof: figuratively, not pretending. Like connotation instead of denotation. And also for the transcript: I'm not the type who normally uses phrases such as "How awful!" so if you see them, beware the facetiousness.
• > Ethan's favourite song is Satisfaction, either the Rolling Stones' version or the live Bjork/PJ Harvey cover. otis redding did an excellent cover. well worth checking out > what are some good shows these days for children? just remembered the backyardigans, especially the episode about being a pirate.
• The Backyardigans ROCK!!!!!!!!!!
• Pirates rock!
• Hey, I came here from another blog (innit, Darshon), and find that the party's not yet over. I, a father of fourthree would recommend hours and hours of Pink Floyd live. Hours of the stuff. Interspersed with Led Zeppelin, Deep Purple, and even early Rainbow. It might not teach the kids anything, but it keeps dad sane.
• my vote is to stay TV free and just get the kid some good books F8xmulder has strayed out of his own thread, but no matter. He needs the exercise. FWIW, I believe that TV carries a lot of our modern culture, and for that reason, a child should be exposed to age-appropriate TV content. These kids need to learn not only the language(s), but also how people interact, and what everyone else is into. We want well-rounded kids, n'est ce pas?
• I agree; otherwise the kids at school will call them "stupid no tv weinerheads" and give them wedgies. At least, that's what I would do.
• Tomblisue! In the Night Garden is charming and much better than the Teletubbies. Derek Jacobi's best part yet.
• Ah, so he's the Buddy Ebsen of our generation.
• Badass Wombles of Central Park
• Sid and Marty Krofft have a MySpace. With lots of video.