October 26, 2005

• huh?
• Because poor black people are more likely to accept government handouts than poor white people are. White people would rather struggle to pay their rent in a trailer park than admit defeat and accept a government handout.
• Ouch... My trouble meter just went bezzzerk1111!11
• This is a bit of an odd statement, and I doubt that anything useful will come from a discussion. If someone has statistics (which I sort of doubt) to support some speculation it might be interesting. However anecdotal descriptions of various urban areas probably won't tell us much.. therefore...why?
• wow...quickly into stereotypes.. I vote for deletion very, very fast!
• What you're observing isn't racial, but patterns of rural vs urban poverty. Trailer parks provide affordable housing for the poor in less densely developed rural areas. Housing projects are an urban phenomenon.
• Déjà Vu... that strange feeling...
• Having lived in NC for many years myself bernockle, I can relate to your observation. Even urban areas have trailer parks situated smack in the middle of them. However, I'm not about to make any wild assumptions based on race. I think a certain comment above is way out of line...
• Déjà Vu Thanks for reminding me *again* Skrik!
• Okay. Delete away, if appropriate. I just find it odd that there are so many poor white people, but they seem to never live in the housing projects. In fact, local police will stop white people who are seen in the projects because they consider them to be suspicious. If white people actually lived in the projects, I imagine that the police would not be allowed to effectuate such a stop. Wasn't trying to stir anything up. Just looking for theories as to why there seems to be such a split.
• I'm a gool 'ol American white boy. I happened to live in a housing project when I was a youngster, this was in New Mexico. I don't recall any seperation of race, in fact it seemed quite diverse. Racial division *does* still exist in certain parts of the US - perhaps your observation is an extension of that?
• bernockle, I don't think anyone (at least I wasn't) was seeing you as intentionally attempting to "stir anything up". It could be an interesting discussion in the correct forum, but online discussions are prone to moving in odd directions...my original comment was just a caution about that... my second comment was after I hit post and saw what came between... and, my "delete" comment wasn't directed at you in any manner...
• bernockle, the dividing line is urban vs. rural, not racial. I think that was one of the points being made. More importantly, these things are not as true or universal as you think they are. Poor white people don't accept welfare? Sorry, uh, no. Just... no. blerg. I never saw this thread. Memory wipe! *bwwp!*
• hmmm.. I had actually forgotten...while in college I lived in a "project".. qualified due to low income, just out of the military... A fairly diverse population there at the time, but we were located just off campus in an era just after the end of the Viet Nam war... a number of ex military in the area
• Wow, Bernockle, you don't get out much, do you? You should read All Souls by Stephen McDonald, a memoir set in the almost all-white, predominantly irish Old Colony Projects of South Boston. In many cities, projects are predominantly non-white, but there's always some whitefolks left. A lot of the urban white poor, moved to Florida. Those people you see getting arrested on Cops? Displaced Brooklynites.
• >Because poor black people are more likely to accept government handouts than poor white people are. This is some funny shit. For some reason it makes me think of this.
• I think bernockle's observation is most likely quite accurate, and at the same time a unique, localized reality. Many places still exist where the wall of racial division has not been torn down. When I lived in Wilmington, NC during my high school years, there was a "famous" housing project near downtown. "All" the "white" people "feared" this place. I, for one, refused to live by such stereotypical notions. It was a nice shortcut to where I lived if I drove through the middle of the project. Friends always warned me not to drive there, for fear of the dreaded "white cracker traps" (nails, broken glass placed strategically in the road to puncture the "white man's" car). I hate such utter BS. Anyway, it actually happend to me one day! Bam, a flat tire in the middle of this project. My sister was in the car with me and pleaded with me to keep on driving. Nope, I parked the car right there and popped the trunk to get the jack and spare tire out. As I was busy jacking the car up, a white police office walked up to me and asked, "Sir, are you ok!?" I gave him a glare that basically said, "leave me the F!! alone!" Suddenly, this big 'ol black dude grabs the tire iron out of my hand. Funny, it turned out to be the father of one of my school friends. He said, "what the heck are you doing driving through here! Even I don't like to drive through here!" He refused to let me change my own tire, insisting that I was only asking for trouble. I continued to drive through that project after that day... Nothing will ever change unless people start questioning these wild racial assumptions. Poverty doesn't have eyes.
• buddy_bradley is dead on. In South Boston, the projects are full of poor white people who have lived there for generations. goetter is also right on -- rural poor people live in different circumstances than urban poor people. Race scarcely enters into it except in such a horribly sweeping and unsupportable generalization. And wingnut needs to shut up and go finishing bleaching his white hood and sheet before the big cross burning party.
• I had tandoori rice for dinner, it was quite nice. I added some garlic and a splash of soy sauce. Mmmm mmm.
• And wingnut needs to shut up and go finishing bleaching his white hood and sheet before the big cross burning party. And remember to tumble dry on high heat. I bet it's great when they're still warm from the dryer.
• There is a phenomenon called "residential segregation": some places populated mainly if not exclusively by one race don't welcome those of another race. Housing projects and trailer parks are not exceptions. A lot of this segregation is voluntary: the whites say "I don't want to live around THOSE people" and the blacks say "We're entitled to a place of Our Own". Second, I heard a couple decades ago that a lot of white residents of mostly (if not all) white trailer parks in north-central Ohio got some kind of government assistence like checks and Section 8; it's nonsense that "not taking government handouts" is a white racial trait. This gibes well with the white welfare+foodstamp recipients I knew in Baltimore who got Section 8 or lived in crappy apartments: they didn't live in the projects because by then the projects were all black and it was well known that white residents were not welcomed there (to say the least -- and if somebody wants to argue that only whites can be racist go ahead, I could use a good laugh). If there had been "mixed" or "white" projects they'd have jumped at the chance. Third, police will also stop poor-looking white people in wealthier neighborhoods (which in my experience are usually but not always mostly white) because "they must be up to something"; nothing prevents the cops from protecting well-to-do black neighborhoods from white "riffraff" (especially in cities where a lot of cops are black). This is class-based as much as racial. Fourth, from what I've seen most housing projects were built -- 50 years ago -- in black neighborhoods, while most trailer parks are rural or suburban (and so in many localities mostly white): as far as the "people on the ground" are concerned this fact is an accident of geographical demographics. Me, I prefer to live ion "mixed" neighborhoods: all-white ones give me moral-psychological willies and all black neighborhoods are simply not safe for those of my coloring. (That a lot of white, black and/or mixed neighborhoods ain't safe for nobody is also a fact, but I can't live on the frigging moon.) Generally, a lot of trailer parks, and urban apartment complexes and poor white neighborhoods, are "informal projects", owned by private parties who rely on their tenants' section 8 vouchers: better-off people of all races shun "those places full of 'white trash'" too. By the way, in Louisville our Mexican immigrants are "integrating" white areas (including trailer parks and cheap apartment complexes) rather than black ones, probably because the property owners and managers think "at least they're not black". This doesn't seem to bode well for the Arizona Militia.
• HONESTLY I think I may eat that big packet of CC's in the pantry, just because they're so moorish. Extra cheesy flavour.
• Anecdote time to share others' localized realities: 1. One summer circa 1980 I worked as an air conditioning repairman's gofer assistant in rural east Texas. Spent a lot of time in trailer parks. Met a fair number of black folks therein, though dominantly white or Hispanic. Poor, rural East Texas is more integrated than outsiders might think. 2. Couple of years ago in Seattle I would run to the gym for a warm-up (this is before I had to stop running on cement sidewalk). My route there and back passed straight through the 'projects' on Yesler. Near as I could tell from being on foot, entirely non-European inhabitants -- about half being first-gen immigrant from Africa (Ethiopia, Sudan) or Asia (China, Laos, ?). 3. The trailer parks in my corner of East-of-the-Cascades Washington? White as a, um, sheet. Because in that part of the country, black people are as rare as buffalo nickels.
• And when he gets together with all his buds, they are impressed because his sheets are Downy soft and Downy fresh!
• OK, you're on your own.
• I agree with Goetter... I think this is more of an urban/rural issue, than some sort of housing "choice" along racial lines. I grew up in east TN. There were some housing projects; they happened to be filled with white people, because I lived in a predominately white town. There were also plenty of trailer parks. And many of those folks were also recieving some sort of public assistance, as well. In smaller, rural towns, there isn't always enough infrastructure to build housing projects, and it's probably more effective just to subsidize folks who are already living in the cheapest housing they can find... trailers. When I moved to Nashville, there was a higher percentage of black people in the projects. It was a more racially diverse town. But what you don't always see are the elderly white folk that live in the projects. For any number of reasons- mobility, frailty, safety, transpeotation- they just don't leave their apartments very much.
• Somebody brought Krispy Kreme doughnuts this morning. I like Krispy Kreme, except most people only get glazed when they go there, and glazed doughnuts are the most boring doughnuts in the world. I mean, come on, would a little chocolate icing kill you? It's not like the mixed dozen is all that much more expensive. Besides, most people around here prefer Shipley donuts, as they're tastier and have better texture.
• These stats from Portland seem to show 60% of occupants of public housing were "White Not Hispanic" as against 21% "Black Not Hispanic" in 2003, so maybe it is just the impression you get in certain cities. That was just a quick Google - must be more out there if you want a broader picture. or is there as distinction between public housing and projects in the US? And wingnut, I see in your profile that you say you came here for the civil discourse. Where I come from making ridiculous racist sweeping statements is not considered conducive to civility.
• My family is from the outer boroughs of NYC, and my dad said when he and my uncles were young (60s-70s) there were still quite a lot of non-hispanic whites in the projects, back then. He said that a buddy of his lived in Boulevard Gardens, a project near his high school, but he had to leave home when he got a good job, because that would've put his family over the income ceiling. Also, what's up with calling projects "Gardens," or "Houses?" Seems like a cruel joke.
• Everywhere I've seen trailer parks, there weren't housing projects. Admittedly, I've not spent much time in large cities, but that's my experience.
• Mmmm mmm I love me some donuts. Sometimes I like just the plain old ones with cinnamon, though, with coffee, but you gotta have icing on a few of 'em.
• Big Davey hits it right on the nail there. Many of the projects (and/or wards) commented upon were initially built for African Americans, and to keep them segregated. Generally they were to house those who worked in jobs supporting city infrastructure (such as garbage collectors and the like). "The projects" would thus guarantee availability of cheap/slave labour from within a 'defined area'. Recently, many of these sorts of jobs have been taken by illegal immigrants who will work for the subsistance wages African Americans are no longer willing to work for. Wingnut, your statement is ridiculous. Statistically it is, in fact, the reverse!
• Also, and this is historical fact, the hole in the center of the doughnut was first devised so that sailors could carry them on their exposed penises, leaving their hands free to "swab the deck." That's what it says in my Charlie Brown Book of Knowledge, anyway.
• Congratulations to the monkeys keepin' it real, yo. Who's sock puppet is wingnut? Besides, most people around here prefer Shipley donuts, as they're tastier and have better texture. Blasphemer!! Begone! what's tandoori rice? Is it, like, oven baked?
• Note to self - Stop eating doughnuts
• wow... I owe an apology... my deletion comment was premature and uncalled for, I under-estimated the level of discourse and the civility of the majority of the residents here at MonkeyFilter... I'm impressed...
• Oooh, Mrs Niggerbaiter's exploded!!!
• And your wicked comment defaming Mr. Brown only proves that you're a sick, evil, twisted pawn of the Shipley doughnut company. Un-holey! although i'd read it was to stack them on dowels for easy transfer to market.
• Also, what's up with calling projects "Gardens," What's in a name... Yesler Terrace is on a terrace, and in fact is a "garden apartment" type structure with attendant landscaping. Though that landscaping suffered a lot of damage when the Interstate went right through the project. It is always the way. not thinking of donuts, not thinking of donuts
• The hole is to create the perfect shape for even cooking in deep fat. And to put on your thumb.
• I have to say that I have a DECIDED preference for the chocolate frosted myself. In fact, were I forced to choose, I would say that is my favorite donut flavor. thanks to mct, I can now incorporate the luscious fluffiness of donuts into all of my naughty kidnapped-by-pirates (oh no!) fantasies!
• ARRR KEBAB ARRR
• I've noticed that people who like Krispy Kremes tend to have a better work ethic- more of the true American enterpreneurial spirit- the very soul of the Frontiersman. Whereas the Shipley crowd tends to be shiftless and, you know, more inclined to just keep having babies and let the taxpayers foot the bill.
• My point exactly. These activist Shipley doughnut fiends must be brought to justice! Congress must act to eliminate the "Death Doughnut" as our friends at Fat News describe them.
• The proletariat will rise up and overthrow your conveyor-belt doughnut regime, capitalist pigs! Our be-doughnuted cocks will stand as a symbol of the revolution, striking fear in the hearts of really hot diabetics everywhere!
• I was talking from my experience from living mainly in Baltimore, the San Francisco Bay Area, and Louisville KY, though I had some experience visiting and talking with my relatives in central West Virginia, north-central Ohio and northern Florida. Everywhere else I've been I was a transient stranger, and there are lots of places I haven't been. YMMV.
• >My point exactly. These activist Shipley doughnut fiends must be brought to justice Never gonna happen- not until some measure of balance is restored to the Shipley Media, anyway. Also, we must stop them from aggressively promoting their Shipley agenda in Our Schools.
• I side with Socialist baked goods producers, of course.
• I prefer bagels over donuts. And the real question is: Why are there poor people in the world richest country?
• You're all Munchkinists!
• "Poor" is relative. Also, Deuteronomy 15:11, Matthew 26:11.
• Because poor black people are more likely to accept government handouts than poor white people are. White people would rather struggle to pay their rent in a trailer park than admit defeat and accept a government handout. Um. Wow. I can say know of MANY Caucasians who both live in trailer homes and are also on Welfare/ Foodstamps. I know of many Non Trailer dwelling white people who are on welfare/foodstamps. I know many white people who are both trailer folk AND not on welfare. Stereotypes suck. Generalizations suck. IMHO, I think of statements like yours as programming that is being expressed. Programming that comes from the media (indirectly or directly)and from Perverse Ideologues, and is in the end a tool that keeps the puppets from looking at the master. Poor is poor.
• And the real question is: Why are there poor people in the world richest country? That's easy. It's because they want to be poor. /ducks
• And the real question is: Why are there poor people in the world richest country? Because poverty has been with us in every society since the dawn of man, and will be until we live in a Utopia that is probably impossible. Because Bush is dumb.
• I read an article some time ago that was using computer simulations with fairly simple rules to model economic situations. One of the simulations was red and blue dots on a surface. They set it up so that each colour dot would prefer to be in an area with a certain number of the same colour (but no preference for segregation). Over a certain number of turns where they could move, they found that this led to the dots becoming completely segregated. Food for thought.
• You pathetic, deluded bunch of... donnutists. The only good donut at Krispy are the UN-glazed, chocolaty-dough ones, stupidly called 'brownies' (a brownie with a HOLE? get out of here). They are great, but lack a certain je ne sais qua. But the bestest donuts around are those chocolate dough lightly sprinkled with cinammon from Dunkin. Their laughlable attempts at 'coffee' are crap, but hey, that's why they invented take-out boxes, eh? Ah, and your favorite band race sucks.
• >And the real question is: Why are there poor people in the world richest country? A theory: in monkey troops, male monkeys struggle to establish their status in the group. The high-status male monkeys get to mate with the female monkey(s) of their choice. In other words, our fundamental drives to survive and procreate tell us to compete for status. In human monkey societies, wealth confers status. A society which distributed wealth fairly and equally among its members would effectively deprive its monkeys of their status- which would run counter to those fundamental drives. Of course, human monkeys are increasingly interdependent, and a dose of egalitarianism might help us all survive better. But this information has yet to seep down into our monkey natures. Anyway, that's just a theory- I like the 'Bush is dumb' one just as well.
• And the real question is: Why are there poor people in the world richest country? No, the real question is why the huge disparity? And Bush is dumb. Bush do anything to help the poor? You're seriously going to put that out with a straight face? Fuuuuuck. Dunkin'?? Dude - one crack rock at a time . . one at a time . .
• Monkeyfilter: Fuuuuuuuuck.
• Whoa. I have to remember where I am commenting sometimes. I did not mean to say that black people are looking for handouts. I meant to say that maybe white people refuse help that could do them some good because they want to prove that they don't need any help. And we klansmen try to stay away from the white sheets this time of year as people are likely to try to give us candy.
• Right now, really, the white man is the most discriminated agaisnt. There are hundreds less scholarships and other oppurturnities for him, than any other group.
• What an interesting question. Rural vs urban sounds an interesting bet. Maybe ask Harvard Joint Centre for Housing Studies or similar. There must be studies on black/white/etc housing issues all over US sociology academia.
• Right now, really, the white man is the most discriminated agaisnt . . . Please define "discriminated"
• Re: the original question; I wonder if it isn't a bit of an 'east coast' thing. It seems that the neighborhoods on the west coast are more diversified. I'm generalizing, of course. Also, while I have no statistics, I'd say that there are more poor people on the east side of the Rockies which may explain the housing situations. However, with so many immigrants coming in from the south, that is changing fairly rapidly on the west coast.
• Also, I find quid's occasional serious and intelligent comment's unnerving. I suppose such wit exposes fierce intelligence that he struggles mightily to hide.
• HONESTLY I think I may eat that big packet of CC's in the pantry, just because they're so moorish. Extra cheesy flavour. What are CC's and why are they moorish?
• VOL, your comment is laughable. Fewer opportunities for white men? Seriously? There may be a few scholarships and equal-opportunity programs earmarked for minorities, but the reality in most white-majority countries (especially the US) is still one of significant discrimination against visible minorities, or, at best, tokenism.
• There are hundreds less scholarships and other oppurturnities for him, than any other group. a. I'm betting this is categorically false, when you consider: 1.) all the scholarships offered to employees' children -- most of whom are white, like their parents (simple demographics) -- by thousands of U.S. corporations; and 2.) the greater likelihood that children in white families (who are wealthier on average than minority families, I'd wager) in the majority of cases have more awareness of scholarship opportunities than do children in minority families. b. Even if it IS true, the financial benefit to black students, on average, would not be as much as the financial benefit of having been born into a white family would have been, on average.
• >Right now, really, the white man is the most discriminated agaisnt. There are hundreds less scholarships and other oppurturnities for him, than any other group. Yeah, but a MAN who has the will and the spirit can overcome even so terrible a handicap as the societal bias against white skin. So, are there many visitors from your Bizarro-dimension living among us here on Earth?
• "And we klansmen try to stay away from the white sheets this time of year as people are likely to try to give us candy." Damn, I think I might have to give this guy props for that comment.
• Right now, really, the white man is the most discriminated agaisnt. There are hundreds less scholarships and other oppurturnities for him, than any other group. There's definitely less seats on the bus for him.
• It was definitely funny, Chy. wingnut gets a ).
• Also, I find quid's occasional serious and intelligent comment's unnerving. I suppose such wit exposes fierce intelligence that he struggles mightily to hide. quid is one of the smartest people on MoFi, which is partly why he's so adorable.
• "Whoa. I have to remember where I am commenting sometimes." -Wingnut Meanwhile, at the Stormfront message boards, posters are mystified by a series of comments involving knitting, zombies, and NKOTB.
• *windex please* This thread is... I have no words...
• I think it has something to do with the different dance styles of white folks and black folks. White folks dance like this [awkward stiff movements], while black folks dance like THIS [cool, skillful hip-hop dancing] thanks, I'm here all week!
• It's true! We're SO lame!
• *applause*
• *attempts triumphant moonwalk, trips, sprains giblets*
• Bagels and donuts are both round. You can eat either for breakfast. Really, there is no other common factor.
• they both have holes. Heh. Holes.
• Monkeyfilter: one crack rock at a time . . one at a time . .
• All of my university career has been paid for via scholarships. In undergrad, I had a full tuition ride because of my score on the PSAT (on which white students tend to do better than students of color). My books were paid for via a scholarship from my dad's work (one of those employee scholarships that go to overwhelmingly white kids), and I had other money from my grandmother's sorority. I got full rides to get both my M.A. and Ph.D. So I wouldn't say that there are fewer opportunities for white people.
• A couple years ago here at IU some group had one of those "Affirmative Action Bakesales" where different charges are charged to people of different races. Of course the fact that IU does not have Affirmative Action and the percentage of IU students that are not white is less than 15% didn't stop them from having their stupid bakesale...
• I came back to the computer after a long day at school and was rather outraged when this thread wasn't deleted. Then I discovered the power of donuts, and was bitterly disappointed when the combined forces of Chy and MCT were unable to completely derail this thread. Now I, along with Lara, just want to know what CC's are and why they're so moorish. (I know I'll be sorry I asked...)
• you can't say no to CC's.
• Ahh, in other words, Cheetos!
• After some serious research, it seems that they're more like a Dorito, or say, perhaps your Frito.
• Ain't nothin' like my Frito.
• Ah, corn chips = fritos. We don't have cheese flavored fritos do we? I'm not current on snack food technology. yay-inline images! boo-I want cheesy poofs!
• They have chilli cheese fritos, which are mmmm... /comes from the home town of fritos.
• The best Fritos ever were the chile y limon ones, but maybe no one else thought so since I can't find them anymore.
• *attempts triumphant moonwalk, trips, sprains giblets*-- posted by fish tick *uses giblets to make gravy, pours over mashed potatoes
• Oy!!! Those are vegetarian giblets, madam!!
• Of course, human monkeys are increasingly interdependent, and a dose of egalitarianism might help us all survive better. But this information has yet to seep down into our monkey natures. We have had egalitarianism in human history. Still, social aggrandisement theory seems to be what drove us to "civilisation" and, perhaps through that, survival. Poverty is a byproduct of growth by this theory. But for the sake of argument, let's slip back a shade of social organisation and go Kawelka: instead of being "the man" from being a fat pig, we can be "the man" by owning and feasting on the most fat pigs. And for tangential applicability... Remind anyone of the FBI "Black Panther Coloring Book"?
• I don't know what you said, but that was a cool link.