April 07, 2005

• Going at it through Google News to avoid site registration (theoretically).
• cool, I tried to find it through there but couldn't. The bug me not link seems to work, too.
• I think the most amazing part of this story is that he paid the installation fee he was told would be waived (and that he never got that in writing). Well, that, and the arresting part. This is why I don't usually spend $2 bills -- it's just not worth the hassle.
• For Baltimore County police, said spokesman Bill Toohey, "It's a sign that we're all a little nervous in the post-9/11 world." AAAAAAAARRRRGHHHHHH! *head explodes*
• the terrorists have won!
• Bloody Hell man; Shackled to a pole? This is incredibly absurd!
• A couple of days ago I commented that I don't buy the "people are stupid" argument. Can I take it back now?
• Can you hear that? That strange, slobbering keening sound? That's a few shady local lawyers lining up to file his lawsuit against Best Buy.
• I have a couple of $2 bills but I never spend them because of idiots like these.
• Man, back in the day me and my friend would cash our summer job paychecks and get it all in $2 bills and go on spending sprees with them. We loved watching the clerks try to figure out where to put the money in the drawer. Who knew we were living so dangerously.
• The clerk was just trying to cause him pain. She knew the bills were real, she was just miffed at having to deal with them.
• "She looked at the $2 bills and told me, 'I don't have to take these if I don't want to.' this is the part i don't get. yes, she DOES have to. they're legal tender. it's like when i try to pay in dollar coins -- the cashier looks puzzled, i say it's a dollar coin and the post office gives them out as change, that's that. i have a feeling there's more to this story. maybe the guy was being a real ass and creating a scene.
• Ha. My native county. When people ask me what Baltimore is like, this is one of the stories I tell them: After 9/11, there was a major security increase at the Baltimore World Trade Center, which stands all of 40 stories high. That pretty much sums it up- a small town pathetically desperate to be a big city.
• log on as [email protected] with nonedot as the password if the google link doesn't work for you.. Something fishy here... if he was told the installation cost was waived only a fool would have said "oh, ok, duh..here's the money" (I think he actually said that, I think I heard it in my sleep when he said it, i think he said it loud so I could hear it...). Something.Fishy.Here....
• I'd like to ask the Best Buy manager this question: Do you really think someone would go to all the trouble and expense to make counterfeit $2 bills? Hello? Also, what SideDish said.
• What I enjoyed was that they commented that they were in sequential serial number order, like that was proof of something. Like if you were really a counterfeiter, you wouldn't think of that. When I worked retail, we used to get Susan B's that people thought were quarters. It was fun pointing that out to people and giving them more change than they were expecting.
• ah ha!!!! not only a picture of Mike himself, but his "pledge" (which includes "I will provide the number of complimentary passengers/participants & stipends you desire." but no mention of $2 bills)... AND a picture of him...... I would have arrested him too!
• ok..i know i mentioned the picture twice and the whole post sounds a bit stupid, but I was excited.... forgive me!
• He should've paid with these.
• Our favorite bar in Houston likes to return dollar coins and $2 bills. I've never had any trouble exchanging them, but I've never tried to exchange 57 of them, either.
• That's the Best Buy where I bought my second computer. Grrrrrrrrrrr. . . I hope he does sue them.
• To measure the impact of the leather industry in a small community in upstate New York, the leather mills did one week's payroll for all employees in two dollar bills. This made it easy to track where the money went. Neat experiment, but it's good thing it was back during the cold war when we were less suspicious!
• Haven't you heard? Not doing the expected sheeplike thing IS "causing trouble" and "being an asshole", even if you wear a good suit and act real nice. And yes, people ARE stupid -- I'm not at all surprized they wouldn't take $2 bills 'cuz I know they pitch fits about $1 coins. Now I'm wondering if my bank stocks $2 bills. I cut my teeth on "civil disobedience".
• They were right to arrest him. Only necromancers and pedophiles use $2 bills.
• I, too, need to know more. He was in custody. He was clearly under arrest by any definition of the word. He was not charged with anything?
• Best Buy has demonstrated time and time again that they would enjoy doing business better if only they didn't have to deal with all those pesky customers. This is one case where I wouldn't blame the guy for suing. This is false imprisonment, isn't it?
• He was placed in custody under suspicion of passing counterfeit currency. In many states, the cops don't need to actually *charge* a suspect with a crime for twenty four hours after taking him/her into custody.
• The tourists have won. Sorry America. Say goodnight.
• From the US Treasury web site faq (the last line is interesting, it looks like a business can actually choose not to accept certain denominations...I didn't know this!): Why did the Treasury Department remove the $2 bill from circulation? Answer: We receive many letters asking why the $2 bill is no longer in circulation. Contrary to the impression of many people, the Treasury Department did not stop circulating the $2 bill. On September 12, 1996, Robert E. Rubin, the 70th Secretary of the Treasury, was presented with a new series $2 bill. The Series 1995 notes were printed at the Bureau of Engraving and Printing's (BEP) Western Currency Facility and bear the seal of the Federal Reserve Bank of Atlanta. The $2 bill remains one of our circulating currency denominations. According to BEP statistics, 590,720,000 Series 1976 $2 bills were printed and as of February 28, 1999, there was $1,166,091,458 worth of $2 bills in circulation worldwide. The key for successfully circulating the two-dollar bill is for retailers to use them just like any other denomination in their daily operations. In addition, most commercial banks will readily supply their retail customers with these bills if their customers request them in sufficient volume to justify stocking them in their vaults. However, neither the Treasury Department nor the Federal Reserve System can force the distribution or use of any denomination of currency on banks, businesses or individuals.
• As I undeerstand it, he was just detained while they investigated if the bills were counterfeit. I'm no lawyer, but I did work as a cashier at a casino for a total of about 2 and 1/2 years and can say that a) there are more people than you would think that like to use $2 bills. b) if the bank doesn't have them they will get some and *gasp* then they will be sequentially numbered because they are probably new. c) brand new sequentually numbered bills have texture to them and stick together like hell. We would mainly get them with $100's. It was pretty common for cashiers to have two stick together so a customer ended up getting an extra $100! and related to that d) new bills have that texture that is difficult, if not impossible to duplicate. Any time I see someone getting out that stupid pen, I know they don't know what they are doing. There are lots of ways to tell if a bill is real and that pen only tests the one of them. as I said the texture is one of them, as is the watermark and the security strip (which I have seen faked) but since I have caught fakes and seen fakes caught by others, the most obvious sign is the texture/weight of the paper. and finally: e) as others have pointed out it would almost certainly cost more than $2 in time, materials and labor to create a convincing $2 bill. The only fakes I've ever seen have been $20s although we did get bullitins about people passing fake hundred (those with the faked security strip).
• this sounds familiar . . . Oh yeah. Similar, but different.
• He should get to take a shit on the Best Buy floor. Then they'd be even. He should probably take a shit on the floor of the police department too. For good measure. I think if this policy were instituted, we could avoid many, many lawsuits.
• amen on best buy. oh and patita, i read this To measure the impact of the leather industry in a small community in upstate New York and at first thought you said, "leather community" quote-unquote, if you know what i mean. so i pictured buffed men in leather chaps and vests parading through a small town to educate the populace. hurray!!!
• Back in the day when I had a summer stint as a cashier at Sam's Club, this guy comes through my line acting all excited. I total up his purchases, and it rounds out about $400 some dollars... He then proceeds to pull out this large manilla envelope stuffed to the gills with $2 bills and exclaims, "MAD MONEY! Today is MAD MONEY DAY!" Took him a few minutes, but he counted out $400+ in those funny bills. I stood there in awe, having never seen such a stash of $2 bills at once! Totally made my day!
• this sounds familiar . . . Oh yeah. Similar, but different.
• Anyone else remember when Dead Heads were encouraged to pay for everything with $2 bills when they were on tour? Apparently, it made the towns much more open to the influx of hippies when they realized just how much money they were bringing in.
• I agree that there might be more to this story. I'll bet he got into it with the clerk. So this guy is a "tour guide" for students? Dang, all we ever got was a hot school bus and a couple of cranky chaperones.
• this sounds familiar . . . Oh yeah. Similar, but different.
• Erm . . . well, crap. Is MoFi acting funky for anyone else today? /me reboots everything . . .
• Hey petebest, that post sounds familiar.
• I agree that there might be more to this story. I'll bet he got into it with the clerk. I find this rather peculiar. Say he did "get into it with the clerk," what action do you think he could have taken that would justify the cops placing him in handcuffs yet not charging him with anything? Being an asshole is still legal, from what I understand, and any sort of attempted assault would have resulted in him being charged, or, at the very least, warranted a mention in the story. Sheesh, maybe he was dressed like a criminal, and therefore, asking for it.
• Say he did "get into it with the clerk," what action do you think he could have taken that would justify the cops placing him in handcuffs yet not charging him with anything? oh probably something all-purpose like "disorderly conduct." /put me in cuffs for fun anytime, thank you/
• I don't find the whole "take him down to the station and put him in cuffs" surprising at all. If, in fact, once the idea that the bills were forged was suggested,(regardless as to how stupid that might be) and they believed they may be dealing with a potential federal crime, putting him in cuffs until it was sorted out is logical. Had they not, had it really been forged, had he run off, they would have caught a BUNCH of crap! We live in a "cover your butt" society now... the phrase "damned if you do, damned if you don't" should become our motto. of course, then we need a pledge hmmm.. how 'bout "I plege allegence to the flag of our father who art in heaven....damned if I do and damned if I don't. Amen"
• Absolutely everything that jccalhoun said. A lot of people seek them out, and some specifically ask their banks to order a strap for them to keep on hand. Meaning, of course, brand new sequential bills.
• We live in a "cover your butt" society now... At least in regards to the cash drawer. No problem with erring on the side of trampling the rights of an individual, though.
• Had they not, had it really been forged, had he run off, they would have caught a BUNCH of crap! Except what jccalhoun said, and the fact that there was absolutely no question of the bills' origin (the man actually going out of his way to make sure he was remembered) AND they had relevant contact information. He would have had to be the worst counterfeiter in history. Sounds to me like the Best Buy employees were put on the spot and reacted by throwing some arbitrary power around. And the cops, in all likelihood, were brain damaged.
• We live in a "cover your butt" society now... the phrase "damned if you do, damned if you don't" should become our motto. Quit supporting these kinds of actions, and you can fix this problem, not perpetuate it. Unless you like living in a "cover your butt" society.
• Nick... right on all points... This guy overestimated the intelligence and decision making abilities of everyone he dealt with that day... including, perhaps, his own... all in all, I think this whole group probably deserved each other's company!
• It's just sad the cops didn't know better. I know it's just as silly to expect them to as the BB employee, but c'mon. Remember when there was no Internet? No? Oh.
• I remember when there was no tv... that should scare the heck out of ya!
• Finds himself transported to the Baltimore County lockup in Cockeysville, where he's handcuffed to a pole for three hours while the U.S. Secret Service is called into the case. Cockeysville....heh!
• "I remember when there was no tv... that should scare the heck out of ya!" That was only because your parents were too cheap to buy a set.
• ahhh, Doris, were only that the case... sigh... you're being kind!
• I hope he does sue. Can I give someone the keys to my car for free, and then accuse them of stealing it? No fucking way. Oh, and the chief should be fired for using the cliche 9/11 excuse to explain how he treated a neighborhood man who was using $2. Anyone that fucking stupid is better suited to be a walmart greeter.
• CockeysvillePunch! Seriously, this is making me want some $2 bills . . . Just for tips etc. Heh. treasury.gov
• SideDish had the right idea. If only some buff guys in chaps had been there to ease the situation, we'd all be ok. And it would give a new meaning to being in "cover your butt" society!
• I admit I once thought someone was playing a joke on me when I worked at a book sale and they went to pay with a $2 bill. I blame my foreignness. Mind you, I asked one of the students that was also working, and was American, and they had never seen one before either. We took it, and I swapped it for a couple of ones and kept it to show everyone because it was such a novelty. So naive. /covers butt
• Monkeyfilter: Being an asshole is still legal
• i have a feeling there's more to this story but does that mean it should be outright dismissed? Can't one think of it as reasonable but unconfirmed? Certainly, given the track record of Best Buy and various local police dept's, the evidence favors the customer's account. (Not to discount the possibility of customer's acting like asshats.) I've noticed there seems to be a weird media convolution going on. People have learned that the major media is often not particularly reliable, so they don't necessarily trust media reports like this. They think there's likely more to the story. Which is a reasonable assumption, except when there isn't more to the story. People's suspicion of media reports makes them dismiss any news that seems out of the ordinary, meaning that genuinely unreasonable news, even when complete and truthful, tends to be dismissed by 'realistic' people. Maybe this isn't a new thing. Maybe people have always been quick to jump to conclusions and reluctant to change their minds later. I do know that lately, when I go to the trouble of chasing news stories down to the granular level, it's often difficult to convince friends and acquaintances to accept the full and unbiased account. It doesn't seem that they're wedded to their current opinion on the story, but rather that they're reluctant to let go of their suspicions of the news information. Keep in mind that I'm not trying to change their minds in these discussions, just make sure they have the complete and accurate picture. If one were given to tin foil hat theories, it could almost be a fiendishly clever plan to subvert the effectiveness of the media.
• So naive. /covers butt I also covet your butt. Oh sorry, "wrong thread". What I meant to say was that this so-called "article" does not mention the TRUE hero here - the spandex-suited superhero who apprehended this demonic duo-denomination dealing dastard! I speak of none other than THE SMALL-CHANGE AVENGER! - who, with his trusty sidekick THE KEEP-THE-CHANGE KID, is ever-vigilant against the circulation of small denominations of currency that would threaten the very fabric of our society by causing us to count needlessly. They also beat up those with piggy banks and hobos, who hoard such monetary travesties.
• Well, I'll be damned, there was more to this story!
• Wonder if he tried paying with one of these or these? Nickdanger's post on ugly money>
• Ah-ha! But here we have one of the cursed arch-enemies of The Small-Change Avenger - NICKEL DANGER! How, villian! Where are your partners in treachery - THE QUARTER POUNDER and BROTHER SPARE-A-DIME? Your gang of no-goods won't foul MY pockets with your worthless gewgaws! Begone!
• *takes worthless gewgaws, cashes them in at Kingdom of Loathing*
• Wait, first he's pope, then a saint, now a superhero? Leave some for the others, drinky.
• Ah mct...he's none other than...The Incredible Popeman
• *Plots to befoul EVERYONE'S pockets.* Heh.
• Wow, Popeman has special green chastity pants. I was under the impression that *all* green pants were chastity pants.
• From ramix's link: [He's] a superhero battling evil with an anti-Devil cape and special chastity pants Yep, that's our Quid, alright.
• ooga_booga beat me to it
• I just find it funny that in a story about two-dollar bills, the police spokesman's name is Bill Toohey.
• And his best friend, Vice Squad Detective Cooterface.
• I completely agree that it would be asinine to counterfeit $2 bills, and then try to pass them sequentially. However, I still suggest that he probably gave the clerk a hard time about accepting them, and either because of payback or geniune alarm, the cops were called. Where I live, the cops can arrest ANYONE for investigation. You must be taken before a judge at the next possible session, and informed of what you are being investigated for. Bond may or may not be offered (usually not). The detectives have 72 hours to hold you while they build the case and file the information, after which time you must be taken back before a judge and advised of the charges against you. Or, the cops can file a motion for an extension of time in which to file. If they can't establish a case, you're out, no hard feelings. Bottom line, I'm really not surprised the guy was arrested; I just feel he might have contributed to the problem.
• The question isn't "are they allowed to take him into custody?" The question is,"was it justifiable to take him into custody?" You seem to think that some mitigating factors may be at play here that made it *justifiable* for the cops to haul him downtown and cuff him to a pole for four hours. I'm curious (since we can reasonably surmise that he did not assault anyone, nor did he directly threaten them with assault,) as to what you think those may be. In your opinion, is being a dick enough? And remember, *justifiable*, is the operative word here.
• Er... please remove superfluous commas as neccessary. Please keep superfluous asterisks, though.
• Here's a news flash. Justifiable or not, if cops have reasonable suspicion (as opposed to probable cause), they can grab your ass (and not in a good way). Acting out increases suspicion in some cases. Cops have to react on an immediate basis. Four hours on a pole is nada. Contain the potential threat until it's cleared. I've seen worse. I don't know why the cops didn't get that the guy was an eccentric who simply used $2 bills. Were they immediately justified in arresting him? I say yes, because of a reasonable suspicion. Were they ultimately justified? Probably not, because it was obvious that he was just some goof spending $2 bills. So the guy can sue, but I don't see proof of willful misconduct here. But of course, I am not a lawyer. I just sleep with one. Encounters with law enforcement range from inconvenient to fatal. I maintain they just do their job as they see it dictated by the standards of the community.
• It's unfortunate, but it's real. Unless you have access to the system.
• i mean, they did have to keep him untill they could verify it was counterfeit and that is the secret service's job.
• I'm not sure what you are insinuating. They merely had to clear the guy as some harmless kook. What's the big deal?
• About ten years ago a good friend of mine was murdered while sleeping on his couch in his living room. One of the main things stolen was a big stack of two dollar bills. Because he always got them when he cashed his checks. The cops still couldn't track down the killers till the family offered a reward and told the cops who it was.
• This story just transports me back to the Bicentennial. Ah, 2 dollar bill that predates the original Star Wars, where have you been? I used to manage bookstores, and I saw these bills all the time. I gotta wonder about a cashier that doesn't recognise American currency. Is anything other than a credit card suspect these days? And BTW, Best Buy hasn't been earning a ton of love lately.
• It sounds to me, cynnbad, that your saying any act by an authority is justifiable simply because they are the authority. Is that right?
• *grabs popcorn from MCT, munches handfull*
• Sorry for the late response, but yes, that's how it is. If the cops have reasonable suspicion (not sure of the exact statutes or ordinances, but I know it's pretty broad), and there's an immediate threat of danger (to anyone, I have heard), cops can detain you under statutory limits on your power. Give thanks to the Patriot Act. Small municipalities defer on the side of the greater good, or so it would seem.
• Oh, God, did I just post that? Sorry. I meant statutory limits on their power. And I guess it could vary. The appearance of trying to pass counterfeit money (which is the crux of this case) might raise reasonable suspicion. I am being vague, but that is what I have observed.
• And yes, authority is what counts here. Due process? Well, it's after the fact. And maryh, I remember all the hoopla about the bicentennial coin and the Sacagaweya (sp) dollar. Those denominations were great for collectors, but flopped in circulation. One time, I tried to pay with a peso. I'll try a euro next.
• It sounds to me, cynnbad, that your saying any act by an authority is justifiable simply because they are the authority. Is that right? Nick, of course it is. That's the only thing that will deter terrorism from taking over this country. If you don't consider BushCo terrorists in their own right.
• Sup drjimmy? I've never quite been treated like a felon at that particular location. I couldn't understand the bit about Cockeysville for the longest time. Much farther away from Baltimore, there's also Boring, MD, and my new favorite, Crapo.
• I don't consider BushCo the threat. I consider it an opportinistic time for rounding up the inconvenient peopele. Plus, I think Cockeysville is appropriate. Reminds me of Gumby.
• (singing) POPEMAN nanananaNANAnananananana