July 04, 2005

America! FUCK YEAH! The US Rocks, so suck on my balls! America! FUCK YEAH! It's your independence day, so blow some shit up!
posted by the quidnunc kid 19 years ago
  • Yanks.
  • Congratulations NASA, and happy 4th of July to US monkeys!
  • The comet thing pisses me off. It'd be one helluva coincidence for the optimal strike to be on the Fourth of July. It's more likely they wasted millions of dollars just to make it strike today, just for some jingoistic effect. It's no longer science when performed this way— it's expensive flag-hugging.
  • I agree, knickers, but to be fair, if they were aiming for a bit of jingoism, they could have done it 6-12 hours later to get it right slap on the 4th - for most I think it was late on Sunday night. On a quick search I can't find anything on why they chose that time frame, whether it was at perigee or something.
  • It'd be one helluva coincidence for the optimal strike to be on the Fourth of July Really? 1 in 365?
  • It's no longer science when performed this way Because science can never be done on a national holiday or on the sabbath. It is God's will.
  • > It's no longer science when performed this way— it's expensive flag-hugging. nasa needs to generate publicity around its projects if it hopes to get decent funding. choosing a holiday seems quite appropriate to me. it's still science; it's just a bit more mass-media-friendly.
  • I've been waiting nearly 30 years to slip the word perigee into an appropriate conversational context. Yay for learning things from Star Trek!
  • Perigee! FUCK YEAH! The point nearest the earth's center in the orbit of a satellite! Perigee! FUCK YEAH! The antonym of apogee, so suck on my balls!
  • Yay for learning things from Star Trek! Hear hear. The Corbamite Maneuver got me out of many jams with schoolyard bullies.
  • Put yer rocks down and move away from them balls!
  • If they didn't do it at perigree Chyren, then they wasted a cubic fuckton of money. They also pulled the same trick with the first Mars landing. I can't recall what other July 4th fireworks they've put on. (Just these two historic first's, for quid's benefit, makes the odds 1/133225, if you still want to keep generating odds in that method). roryk, they wasted funding because they didn't have enough funding? If they are really farting away money just to get money, they need some heads rolling along with a budget cut. Jingoism is not a part of science, and any who participates in jingoism reduces his/her credibility as a scientist. Imagine if other scientists tried this shit. DNA nucliotide names replaced with Stars, Stripes, Freedom, and Liberty. Replace Id, Ego, and Superego with Red, White, and Blue. Schrodinger's Terrorist imprisoned in box— is he guilty or not?
  • If you don't crash ships into comets, then the terrorists win.
  • the quidnunc kid thanks for all the fish, here's wishing all our fellow monkeys out there much fun and partying on their own independence days!
  • Just these two historic firsts, for quid's benefit, makes the odds 1/133225, if you still want to keep generating odds in that method That's complete bullshit. You said that it would be "a helluva coincidence for the optimal strike to be on the Fourth of July". Why? If we assume some "optimal day of strikage" based on purely scientific criteria, the chances of that being July 4 are surely 1 in 365, and are not affected at all by what NASA may or may not have done in the past.
  • FIGHT ME KNICKERKNOCKER. AMERICA DEMANDS BLOOD.
  • MOFI fight! FUCK YEAH! Two monkeys disagree, so they must fight one another! MOFI fight! FUCK YEAH! I hope tracey doesn't ban us, so suck on my balls!
  • 400 Quatloos on the quidnunc kid!
  • Have the victor bathed and sent to my chambers.
  • /sings the Amok Time fight music
  • TAKE THIS!!! SUCK MY SALTY COMET DUST!!! An optimal day of strikage that continuously remains the same day, regardless of target, compounds the odds. "Based on purely scientific criteria" would not give you odds of 1/365, for either event. Both orbit's need to be considered. You can see this easier with Mercury, because of it's inside orbit. Though it has a period of 88 days, your "purely scientific" method would give it 1/365 odds of being at perigree any particular day. More acurate odds would be 1/88, but this doesn't factor in our speed as we travel in the same direction. After Mercury travels one cyle, Earth is 1/4 orbit further. Mercury has to play catch up. Rough estimate would have Mercury catch up approximately 20-30 days. So that on any given day, Mercury has approximately 1/120 odds of being at perigree. The same goes for Mars, but Mars has a larger orbit. I could explain the logic again, or just link a visual demonstration, where you can see it takes about 2.25 earth years to return to optimal strikage. This gives us on any given day approximately 1/800 odds of that day being at perigree. (This is assuming both orbit paths are parallel, remaining exactly the same distance from each other). Tempel has an orbit of 5.5 years, it's a very short-period comet. Do I need to walk through this one? (tracy won't ban us, she'll just launch us into a comet. We should land next July 4th.)
  • Yeah, because if a celestial body has an orbital period of 5.5 years, then on Earth, we will only get a 4th of July once in every 5.5 years!
  • Nixonknocker, you said, "4 July, Gee! What are the odds?" Well for two people who know fuck all about getting to Shirley Tempel 1, that's you and me, we can estimate them at 1 in 365, the same odds of any event happening on a particular day in our calendar when we have no fucking clue about the process behind it. Then you started suggesting that something else you can't link to once happened on 4 July in the past, and somehow this increases the odds of 4 July being a good day for comet-bonking Shirl. That's just spaceballs. Hi flash.
  • /SINGS VULCAN FIGHT MUSIC EVEN LOUDER
  • Mr K, your logic and your math are flawed. Quid's figures are correct. But if you want to continue your rant, I'd suggest gathering evidence that July 4th wasn't the optimum time to stage this event, and some info on just how much money was wasted in making it happen on that date. Personally, I would guess that the optimum window was something like mid-June to mid-July, and planners chose July 4th for the aforementioned jingoistic effect, and also just to piss you off.
  • Boom!
  • 600 Quatloos on the quidnunc kid!
  • And the guy's name is rocket, you can't get any more ironical than that!
  • Good job on getting it backwards flashboy. Because we were really trying to predict what day was July 4th. Regardless, today has 1/1600 odds, at best, of being the right day to strike Tempel. NASA keeps on conjuring up displays for the July 4th. That's not science, that's fireworks. NASA's budget is supposed to be for science. They can't manage that, someone else more capable should get the money.
  • No, we were really trying to predict the odds of the optimal day to strike Tempel being July 4th. There are several July 4ths within the time frame you describe. So the numerator you're looking for isn't 1.
  • Hi quid
  • NASA's budget is supposed to be for science. They can't manage that, someone else more capable should get the money. FINALLY, something we agree on! Professor Flashbulb, Dr Knickersniffer, fire up the rocket - we're going YOUR ASS! Wait - I mean "Uranus". Sorry.
  • Friends don't let friends drink and FPP.
  • I would like to point out that they clearly themed it around the release date of the wrong movie.
  • Isn't it a bit premature to be talking about obits? No one's died because of this incident yet!
  • That's why I don't have any friends.
  • I just drank hot milk.
  • Blow some shit up!! Exploding Horse Turd Mine
  • That's just unsportsmanlike.
  • I spose they get those by feeding horses semtex.
  • I'm having the most boring fourth imaginable. I'm sitting in front of my computer in my boxer shorts. It's almost noon, and I haven't showered. My entire caloric intake of the day consists of two Pop-Tarts and two cups of coffee. I smell like cheese. I spent this morning reading an (admittedly very well written) iron skillet cookbook. I am too lazy to pee. This thread is the most interesting thing that's happened to me today.
  • I'm sitting here 50 minutes into the 5th in my undies. Don't like boxer shorts, my boys need restrainin'.
  • Hmm, my clock must be off. Smell like cheese, you say? Hmm.
  • I prefer my balls to be free-range. Though I'll admit that occasionally it's like a miniature game of tetherball down there. Think parmesan that's been sitting out too long.
  • That's what's so great about the internets. We can communicate without worrying about personal hygeine. I will now attempt sleep again. I hope it works this time. /hums vulcan fight tune to sleep
  • *slips a piece of ripe cheese under Chy's pillow* ssshhhhhhh ...
  • I thought cheese was outlawed in Australia because it would multiply like mad and overwhelm the local flora and fauna! Like Communism!
  • That phenomena is pretty much confined to Chy's apartment.
  • *refunds 600 quatloos* Sorry, capt'n, looks like the fights off.
  • I've showered now. I thought you should know that. I believe I'll go hit an estate sale, mebbe cruise a bookstore. Fuck yeah.
  • Monkeyfilter: I smell like cheese
  • MonkeyFilter: pretty much confined to Chy's apartment
  • MonkeyFilter: FUCK YEAH!
  • Have a good day mct!
  • NASA keeps on conjuring up displays for the July 4th. That's not science, that's fireworks. NASA's budget is supposed to be for science. They can't manage that, someone else more capable should get the money. I think it's a bit of a stretch to say that NASA is "conjuring up displays" for the 4th. Since there are literally dozens of NASA projects each year which get launched, land, collide, return, and otherwise do something important, I think you'll agree that there will be a certain percentage that happen near July 4th. Specifically spending, as you say, millions of dollars for doing something on the 4th would be considered a phenomenal waste of money. However, if there is no significant cost difference (I'm talking thousands of dollars) between doing something on the 4th or, for example, on the 8th... do you still consider that a violation of science, or a few thousand dollars' cost in exchange for literally millions of dollars of free PR? For example, the project I'm working on is scheduled to launch in June, 2009. If we were to say, right now, that we wanted to delay launch to the 4th of July (we can, since we have no real launch window restrictions), the costing board would tell us to take a hike. However, if it turns out that we are going to launch on, say, July 2nd and would only make a small difference in cost to go on the 4th, how does that compromise the science that we're doing once we launch? I think you may want to check on how things are generally really done, Mr. K., before saying that science is completely whoring out to patriotism.
  • *looks at 600 Quatloo refund* Whaddami s'posed to bet on now? Anyone know of some action I can get in on? VLTs don't take Quatloos, do they?
  • If some flag waving helps NASA keep afloat and space exploration free from becoming private enterprises' new territory to plunder, I guess it's not that bad. And hey, it's not like it would be the first time. The moon landing project was veiled in all that cold-war, let's-beat-the-commies spirit after all.
  • What about the fucking whoppers!
  • The nerds win! We've now had the first real-life game of Asteroids. Too bad we lost.
  • But what about the cheese? FUCK YEAH!!! (free-range baller) To quote a friend 'swole up like ball bearings'
  • Since there are literally dozens of NASA projects each year which get launched, land, collide, return, and otherwise do something important, I think you'll agree that there will be a certain percentage that happen near July 4th. I agree, but we aren't talking routine projects. These are historic firsts. These things are going to get coverage, regardless of what day they happen. They are landmark events, that are going into history books. They're gaming the sytem so that history book repetedly say July 4th. Look at a list of NASA milestones from the last ten years. (I've tried to find one and had no luck). We hit Mars, we hit a comet, we left the solar system. We lost control of Voyager long ago, that date was totally random. The other two milestone dates were gamed.(By all means, if you can think of some other events in the same league, please chip in) However, if there is no significant cost difference (I'm talking thousands of dollars) between doing something on the 4th or, for example, on the 8th... do you still consider that a violation of science, or a few thousand dollars' cost in exchange for literally millions of dollars of free PR? A small move I'd have less problem with. I do think it would be tens of thousands of dollars, if not hundreds. But still, moving it a couple days wouldn't as big of deal. But they didn't gain anything in PR. This was a landmark event, that not only would've got coverage on another day, but wouldn't have had to compete against the holiday. (plus, it's not free if there's a cost) The people who are against NASA funding, do you honestly believe a single one of them changed their mind because of "Oh, they did space stuff on Independance Day? That changes everything! More space stuff!! w000t!" Come on. This wasn't done for TV, but to jingo the history books. Sorry I disappeared. I have to leave again. Sorry.
  • Granma? Get over here. The boys are cutting loose again. MonkeyFilter: What about the fucking whoppers! {there's lots left, Granma}
  • Well, one of the Viking landers set down around the 4th of July and from what I read about the mission there was a lot of pressure from the White House to make sure it landed on that date. Still though NASA said 'we'll land it when it's ready' (which is what you want them to do, land it when it's ready and not for a 'photo op'.) So let's here it for the space nerds at Pasadena, long may their starships warp! ! !
  • Has anyone sucked quid's balls yet?
  • Ye- Um, no.
  • Shaddup. Actually this seems like an interesting project. Too bad my social security money is likely funding it.
  • No, cynnbad, your social security money is paying my monthly disability. Before I became disabled, my social security money paid my father's retirement (he took early retirement, so he was a relative bargain). quidnunc and knickerbocker at Tanagra.
  • *flaps wrist lazily, beckons *big man opens cage door, guards bring struggling monkey insurgents Yeah, yeah, bring me my microphone. Remember, two monkeys enter. One monkey leaves. MonkeyFilter: Have the victor bathed and sent to my chambers. Sure, there's a bunch more, but haven't I trained all of you well enough to spot the obvious? Those that have posted tags: Well done. Except next time, you that have forgotten that we bold will be flogged. /queenly attitude
  • Well, here's my brief list of some of the biggest "big ticket" items in the last few years. This list is purely projects I can think of off the top of my head: Cassini: launch October '97; Saturn Encounter July 1, 2004 (hardly "gamed" to hit the 4th), Huygens encounter, December 2004. Mars Rovers: both Launch june 2003, land January 2004 Spitzer Space Telescope: launch August 2003 MESSENGER probe to Mercury: launch August 2004 Mars Pathfinder "Sojourner" (the little rover): Launch December 1996, Landing July 4, 1997. Arguably the only other project aside from DI which, in the last 10 years, can conceivably have been "gamed" to coincide with July 4th. And even then, it could only have been tweaked so much, considering the limited launch windows to Mars. So I'm still failing to see how 2 relatively "big ticket" projects in 10 years (and I think you'll agree that Mars Pathfinder and DI have been FAR outshone by the Mars Rovers and Cassini/Huygens missions) is a refutation of my statement that, if July 4th is nearby in time and poses no risk to mission success (that includes scientific, budgetary, and technical success) what is wrong with nudging something a few days? Besides from my experience at my desk, if you actually DELAY the scheduled launch of a project (without a strict launch window) by a couple days a while in advance (that is, months or years), this is seen as a good thing; what with the number of missions that get launch delays due to troubleshooting of the hundreds of systems and possibly millions of components on the launch pad.
  • MonkeyFilter: it could only have been tweaked so much There, bold for Granma. chimaera, you leave some great drop lines. Good comments, as well.
  • America! FUCK YEAH! First comment in two years, so suck on my-- er, never mind... I haven't spent the Fourth in this country for approximately a squillion years. I'm in Washington DC, so tonight I will go down to the Mall and see the GOVERNMENT SPONSORED EXPLOSIONS. Oh yes.
  • Yay!
  • Hey PA!
  • Have fun, America! Love,