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May 03, 2005

Married woman does her own PI work on craigslist.org

I have an appointment for a full STD check this afternoon. If I have the merest hint of any infection, I will send copies of your email, the IM chat and the pic you sent, to all our friends, your family and your work colleagues. Believe me, you will understand the meaning of the saying "revenge is a dish best served cold". I suggest you say a prayer that you haven't given me anything.

Ouch

Removed by Craiglist Community.

"Heaven has no rage
like love to hatred turned,
Nor hell a fury
like a woman scorned"

- William Congreve

I really wish people would keep their own dirty laundry out of the public.

I really do.

That's fucking awesome! I hope that dumbass learns a lesson.

See, now, this is the real ending to "Escape (The Pina Colada Song)"

What a bitch.

But it's not really cold if you tell what you're going to do. I mean, unless you wait a while. Otherwise, it's pretty warm. Maybe even hot, if she does it immediately.

And what's a "hint" of an STD. If the results come back kinda wishy-washy? If her pee smells like asparagus, but she doesn't recall eating any? What if later, she remembers she had some asparagus with her chicken at lunch?

Personally, I think she should just tell the family and, as drivingmenuts suggests, leave the rest of us out of it. I mean, she's married to him, right? She presumably has his email address, perhaps a phone number. Is it really necessary to use a public message board for this sort of thing?

"To send "Jenni" a pic, including me with my face blacked out, taken at our anniversary party, was utterly unbelievable and underscores the contempt you apparantly have for me."

Don't know why he'd have contempt for her, she seems like such a nice girl.

I'm sure they were perfect for each other.

Any relation to Daisy_May?

Interesting tone this thread is taking on.

Personally, while she might have been a touch harsher than I would have chosen for a public forum, if the story is as described I can't blame her at all.

Why the vitriol? I can't get to the link, which makes it all the more infuriating. Bitch, indeed.

Here's her post, care of MetaFilter.

That would make a fantastic talkin' blues.

She has a followup post that has enough vitriol to float an armada of hairdressers with great smiles.

I wonder why that woman didn't want her posting sent into space.

I think she fucking rocks!!!

Fuck assholes who cheat, man or woman. You are lying shit heels if you do this and should be called out in a public way.

It's all bullshit.

Just one crack in the facade that jumped out:

My lawyer taped the conversation.

Many lawyers are adverse to breaking the law.

I received a lot of emails and pictures in the last two days. 80% of you are unattractive, semi-literate crude baboons or just plain deceitful. The other 20% are clueless fratboys who shouldn't be allowed in charge of real penises. I found a particularly ugly category in those (married men) who sympathized with me against my soon-to-be-ex's betrayal, and in the same breath, offered me comfort and TLC. Pond scum.

Apparently the other 10% of us men are bad at math.

Go figure.

Because they give 110%?

This kind of shit is why I never give nor ask for monogamous commitment -- it just gives two people an excuse to bang their neuroses together. A woman who feels cheated on gets license to act like a genuine harpy and avenge all oppressed women on his ass, while a cheated-on man gets to vicariously punish his mommy for weaning him too early. To hell with it.

My "SO" and I see close to eye-to-eye on this by the way, except her chances of "extracurricular activity" are better -- which is understandable because she's cuter and nicer to be around and good because she's better at keeping those things in their proper place.

The thing is, you see, "monogamy" is such an issue because it's just not gonna happen. People will "cheat" if they have the opportunity and think they can get away with it (or forget to think at all). But still people insist on refusing to face that fact and grow the hell up.

While I might not agree with her destruction of his things, the jewelry he gave her was hers to throw away. She carefully mailed the heirloom jewelry back to her father-in-law.

She's not a harpy; she's an extremely angry woman. I totally understand it. This wasn't a short, not quite sure what's going on relationship; it wasn't an open relationship. It was a marriage - one which, going on her post, was of the traditional, swear to forsake all others until death do you part kind.

Open relationships are fine for those who are fine with them. But some are not - they need monogamy. It is one of the greatest personal betrayels to lie to someone about something like this. This isn't "shit" - this is someone who committed their life to someone else only to find that it has been on false pretences, and that he (though it could so easily be a she) has broken a sacred vow.

It is a sacred vow, even if you aren't religious. If you make the vow to forsake all others, it's a vow to the other person. If you cannot keep that vow, you must at least have the decency to tell them first.

The thing is, you see, "monogamy" is such an issue because it's just not gonna happen.

Please feel free to speak for yourself.

>This kind of shit is why I never give nor ask for monogamous commitment

Congratulations on your enlightened choice. However, other people make other choices. Some traditional relationships fail, as do some alternative arrangements. And some people stick it out.

You might ask not ask for a monogamous commitment, but I assume you ask for honesty from your partner. A guy who's made a commitment by which he finds he can't abide can discuss the problem with his partner, can he not? His partner might have similar feelings, might she not? If she doesn't, it's still possible to honestly and honorably dissolve the existing relationship, is it not, before the sniffing-around-on-the-internet commences?

A lying fuck is a lying fuck. Not that it'd be okay otherwise, but in an age of incurable STDs that can kill you, it's particularly inexcusable.

Honesty, yes. And yes, "a lying fuck is a lying fuck"; that's why I don't make those promises, nor do I believe or accept them. (Though I did learn how not to answer women who volunteer them by blurting "Bullshit!" or laughing in her face.) But before the wine (and apple and cheese, I'm being spiffy tonight) puts me to sleep: there were ALWAYS incurable STDs that could kill you (syphilis wasn't curable 100 years ago), but now we have these things called "condoms". And anyway, why focus on "venereal" diseases when there are things like TB and polio that you can catch just from sitting fully dressed next to someone who has them and that you can't adequately protect yourself against with a piece of rubber? C'mon man, "fear of disease" is a poor excuse for perpetuating a cultural neurosis.

Many marriages survive infidelity if both partners are willing to do what it takes to make that happen. But lots of times infidelity ends up shining a bright light on tons of smaller problems in the marriage that were never dealt with and which ultimately end up playing a part in its destruction. They had an eleven year marriage. I suspect there were signs of problems "Jenni" and her soon-to-be ex husband decided to ignore all along which might explain her spectacular rage. Like the proverbial frog in the frying pan they both sat in that marriage slowly being cooked alive until they burst.


yeah, i know...yuck.

It is a sacred vow, even if you aren't religious.

But that's what "sacred" means. Without religion it's just "special".

If you make the vow to forsake all others, it's a vow to the other person.

Show me somebody who swears s/he keeps all promises and I'll show you a bald-faced liar.

If you cannot keep that vow, you must at least have the decency to tell them first.

Suppose you think you can but turn out to be wrong? Suppose you had no idea that the 38DD redhead in receiving would be eager to eager to receive YOU, and/or suppose some new guy who makes your husband look like Mr. Magoo -- witty, charming, handsome, a good set of tooth caps, a new red Porsche -- suddenly decides he wants you bad? Sometimes it's not so much a lie as a new truth superseding an old one, so it'd be impossible to tell on yourself first because you simply don't know ahead of time. "Things change, people change."

Besides, most people practice SERIAL monogamy: you don't want to cheat on Bill so you dump him and then hop in the sack with Bob. "But I dumped you before I fucked him!" is cold comfort.

from the first post:

Faith is a two way deal and you blew it.
faith may very well be a two-way deal (although probably "trust" is more accurate), but faith does not inspire internet dating entrapment, that's something else.

Big Davey, just because you're incapable of keeping promises doesn't mean nobody is.

>>Just one crack in the facade that jumped out:
My lawyer taped the conversation.
Many lawyers are adverse to breaking the law.

those laws vary widely state-to-state. many laws simply say that ONE of the parties must be aware that they are being taped -- that one generally being the one doing the taping.

oh and if this post is real, it's pretty amusing. good for her. sounds like she'll be fine, and sounds like he'll continue on his merry way.

Well, it ain't on Snopes yet, but I gotta sneaky feeling it will be. Can't wait to see whether she sells his Porsche for $25. Smells like Urban Legend to me....

I agree beelzbubba. B.S. Her rants are a bit too rational.
But if it was premeditation -- she did say that she'd become concerned or whatever in Feb -- well she's got some pretty strange coping mechanism running in her head to lead her to this level of victimization (yeah, yeah....he's a shit but 'alls fair in love and war' isn't actually true)
And speaking of rationalization, Big Davey, you poor cynical bastard. Striving for ideals is noble. Having none must be a cold place to live.

Removed by Craiglist Community; I can't get to the link

I'm confused because the link still works for me. However, the follow-up post seems to have been removed. Anyone have a copy of that?

Rats. Now my work computer is blocking the links. Stupid 'net chastity belt. I'll just live vicariously through you all for a while longer...

Big Davey -

Yes, things can be sacred, holy to someone who is not religious. I'm an agnostic, not an aetheist (there is a huge difference). And I happen to hold humans and human things (like vows) in very high regard; if I could be the most perfect person I could imagine, I would worship my fellow humans. So a vow made to another person is one of the most sacred things I know, to me.

A vow is not a promise. A promise is me telling my roommate I'll take out the garbage. A vow is me swearing my life to someone else in front of our family and friends, who act as witnesses to this. You don't need witnesses for promises; you do for binding vows and contracts (marriage in Modern Western culture is sort of both - I guess this is from its origins).

Also from the OED - one of the many definitions for sacred (which does include explictly theist definitions) - "Dedicated, set apart, exclusively appropriated to some person or some special purpose."

techsmith, the followup is functional now.
Cynnbad, here ya go...
----------------------
I'm the Chappaqua blonde, grey eyes, great smile and skin, 115, who was looking for a married man, 40-45, reasonably fit, must send pic etc etc.

I found my guy - the exact guy, in fact, that I was looking for from the outset: my philandering husband. To the other 250+ married creeps who replied over the last two days - you should all pray your wives don't catch you out like this. Its so easy and obvious .. one doubts your collective intelligence. BTW, the 'meeting' at Starbucks in Greenwich never happened. I thought it made for good 'realism' though.

Andy:

We won't be meeting next Tuesday at the Yorktown Starbucks. I have moved to my sister's house. "Jenni" who you spoke with on the phone was an actress and probably earned the easiest $500 of her life. My lawyer taped the conversation. My lawyer also has a copy of your response to my ad, and transcipts of our three IM conversations.

To send "Jenni" a pic, including me with my face blacked out, taken at our anniversary party, was utterly unbelievable and underscores the contempt you apparantly have for me.

I've also taken the PC and your other laptop. My lawyer will have a computer expert check them. I suspect you've done this more than once.

No doubt you think you've been very clever. I suspected something was wrong in February when M****** told me that you and C****** had been talking about internet "dating" at the club. C****** told M****** that you seemed very knowledgeable about it and that you had mentioned Craig's List casuals several times.

I'm not heartbroken now. That was yesterday. You've lost a wife who adored you. Faith is a two way deal and you blew it. You are an a-hole and a complete shit.

I've left a print out of this on the kitchen counter although I suspect you'll probably read this online before you get home, when you next check out the casuals.

I have had somebody remove and destroy our bed. When you get home you can sleep in the guest room. I have cancelled our dinner with J* and P**** Friday night. I have told my parents that we are divorcing and why. You should speak to your father. You should understand that as a consequence of your actions you will cause great sadness and heartbreak to a good man who has shown me nothing but affection, and whom I love dearly.

I've put all the jewelry, and the wedding ring you gave me, into the storm drain at the end of the road. I've sent your mother's rings back to you father by recorded delivery. I didn't enclose a note - you can explain to him.

I have an appointment for a full STD check this afternoon. If I have the merest hint of any infection, I will send copies of your email, the IM chat and the pic you sent, to all our friends, your family and your work colleagues. Believe me, you will understand the meaning of the saying "revenge is a dish best served cold". I suggest you say a prayer that you haven't given me anything.

I'll see you in court. Don't call me - if you do, my lawyer will get a protection order against you.

Jennifer

Number 2.
==========
==========
I'm back from my doctor, results in a few days and, otherwise, I'm done with this whole sorry mess. Once I send this, its a hot bath and a large gin martini. Tomorrow I start a new life.

Some of the posts on CL have been critical of me for using CL to catch my husband cheating. I am (was) his wife. We were married 11 years and I adored him, assumed he adored me, and that he was as happy as I was. Thats what he told me. Since I had my suspicion in February, I went out of my way ensure we had plenty of time together, a time when anything could be discussed, including a week together in Aruba, and another in the Bahamas. Nothing was said. I don't particularly want to discuss my sexlife here, but I will say that during this time, things were vigorous and daily. He had his opportunity to put anything on the table. He didnt commit a hotheaded crime of passion. I could probably get over a drunken fling with a cocktail waitress. He planned premeditated adultery, and likely has done repeatedly. Thats why I plan an immediate divorce. As I said, I was heartbroken yesterday. I've moved on today.

Before I go, I want to make it very clear to you what I think about the activities you guys (specifically, the married guys) get up to here.

Quite simply, you're pond-scum: you are prepared to risk any happiness that might remain in your marriages against the your lack of self-control, decency and the promises you made to your wives. You're prepared to risk the happiness of your children. You're prepared to risk bringing disease to your wives. It's utterly contemptible. Be men and get divorces, if thats what you really need.

I received a lot of emails and pictures in the last two days. 80% of you are unattractive, semi-literate crude baboons or just plain deceitful. The other 20% are clueless fratboys who shouldn't be allowed in charge of real penises. I found a particularly ugly category in those (married men) who sympathized with me against my soon-to-be-ex's betrayal, and in the same breath, offered me comfort and TLC. Pond scum.

All messages are deleted so you can all breathe a sigh of relief. But I do have a good memory for faces and if I'm ever alone at a bar or restaurent or shopping mall and one of you hits on me, or passes me, believe me, my every instinct will be to spit in your faces. And if you're with a woman, believe me, she and I will have a very direct and interesting conversation.

So if you see a well dressed blonde, 41, 5'1, 115 with grey eyes and a great smile and skin, I suggest you look the other way.

Thanks! For a minute there, I was afraid I'd have to do my job ;)

Thanks peacay! The cl posts were deleted to me too, and I've been getting dns errors on mefi for days.

I know :(
MeFi has been having 'birthing' problems I think. It's been down for hours now and was yesterday for a bunch of time. Bloody children! How disruptive.

Anyone wanna play Pong?

/Dada

that's why I don't make those promises, nor do I believe or accept them. (Though I did learn how not to answer women who volunteer them by blurting "Bullshit!" or laughing in her face.)

I'm totally into open relationships myself, but this comment is really, really, really, really, like, just fucking really, sad.

The reason to have an open relationship is not because "they're gonna sneak behind your back anyway." The reason to have an open relationship is because you honestly believe that your own love and commitment is not diminished by other sexual activity. But human beings are in fact perfectly capable of only having one sexual partner, and equally so of expressing their dissatisfaction with things before breaking trust if they find that they're dissatisfied in a monogamous relationship.

For me, the married man/single woman dynamic is just poison, although there are plenty of happy women who go from married man to married man, if livejournal and other internet portals are any indication.

I have several reactions (if this is not a hoax). . .the guy in question was unbelievably sloppy to get into that situation. . sloppy to do it in the first place and sloppy to get found out like that. My next reaction is wondering if the wronged party showed the passion that she obviously showed in CL in the marriage. . .

If Kinsey is to be believed, a good (albeit smaller) percentage of women cheat also. Yet there is this mindset that men are pond scum and women are fulfilling deep needs that their husbands ignore. . .a double standard that I hear a lot.

All that said, been there, done that, on all sides, paid the price in a lot of ways and I do not feel the inclination to do it anymore, given the almost inevitable emotional consequences to one or more of the parties. . .

oh and so I don't post twice. . . http://www.hotsauceworld.com/scorwomhotsa.html
(I must not know the html rules for mofi)

Yet there is this mindset that men are pond scum and women are fulfilling deep needs that their husbands ignore...

That's what the Lifetime channel does.

danf - the rules are in the FAQ, which is linked in the sidebar on the front page.

I will send copies of your email, the IM chat and the pic you sent, to all our friends, your family and your work colleagues. Believe me, you will understand the meaning of the saying "revenge is a dish best served cold".

I don't think that most people get this saying at all. Like Samuel Jackson's famous verse in Pulp Fiction, it just sounds like some cold-ass shit to say.

The meaning is that revenge is more satisfying if you wait a long time before exacting it. Presumably the long anticipation of the revenge, coupled with surprise on the part of the offender, who likely thought he'd gotten away with the offense, are key components in this.

So is she saying that if she has HIV she'll wait a long time before sending out the incriminating photos? I don't think so. Ah well. Minor pet peeve.

Thank you Path. . I forgot the quotations. . .the quotes must be a Monkey thing, as I have not seen that before. . .anyway. .

the link I intended to place up there

Uh, danf, that's perfectly normal HTML.

Uh, danf, that's perfectly normal HTML.

Young lady, I have been HTML'ing since the second Eisenhower administration, and this is the first time I have seen quotes required. . .I still think it's a Monkey thing, but when in the jungle. . .

W3C's reference for linking URLs. Sorry, I'm feeling pedantic today. :)

danf, could it be xHTML requires quotes, but HTML didn't use to? Cos looking at the W3C guidelines, quote marks are mandatory.

All I know is that on Metafilter, LiveJournal, and other sites that Jennifer (up there) would take exception to (and god only knows what she would do to me if she caught me there) have not required quotations around the URL's.

Not complaining. . .just sayin' . . .*sweet smile*

I'm actually studying this in web design. Quotes are the standard, even in good old-fashioned HTML. However, web browsers were built so that they interpretted what was meant from HTML, they did not read it and present it exactly as written. So, people could get away with leaving quotes off, not using some end tags (such as the only using <p> to start a paragraph with no </p> to close it) and similar shortcuts. I started hand-coding HTML in about 1995 or 96, and used such shortcuts myself.

However, the trend now is toward XHTML as a transition state to the standard that is being aimed at, XML. XHTML and XML require that you use the quotation marks, closing tags on everything, etc. No more shortcuts. W3C wants to move toward a technology that gives designers definitive control that is applicable across platforms and browser technologies, so a page that looks good and works smoothly under IE on a Windows box will work just as well under any other browser/OS combination. The pages will be read and applied as coded rather than interpretted under rules written into the browser. So, chances are, if your link is not working without quotations, it's XHTML or XML rather than HTML being used on the site.

So MoFi is the first site I have ever posted in with the self respect to require that posters follow the rules, huh?

I like that. MoFi is not a cheap date.

*smile*

dang, danf, I hope the "young lady" thing was a joke.

just friendly bantering, and also sorta based on my advanced age, as compared to hers, prolly. . .but no offense intended. . .

From CL revenge to the merits of monogamy to a discussion of HTML standards...yay monkeys!

Yeah, cabingirl, we're polymorphous perserve, in the more modern sense.

No. make that "perverse." Oh, dear.

not "polymorphous preserves"?

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