December 17, 2004

• How about "crazier than a barrelful of monkeys"?
• They mention "mad as a hatter" referring to the use of mercury compounds in the making of hats, which Snopes lists as indetermined. But I was under the impression that it was now thought that mad as a hatter comes from the use of hatter to refer to crazy loners . See The Bush Undertaker for instance, by Henry Lawson. Anyone, with a clue to offer? or add to the big pile of ignorance I've just dumped on the table
• Bad web design, bad spelling, bad explanations: Cock and bull story 'A Cock and Bull story' is a form of Chinese whispers. It comes from a long time ago when the two most popular pubs in a village were The Cock and The Bull. If a story started in The Cock, by the time it got to The Bull it had been either twisted or exaggerated. Nice story; not a smidgen of evidence to back it. The phrase is probably from some fable about (duh) a cock and a bull, though the exact history is not clear. If you want more accurate information, try Wordorigins.
• More accurate info about word and phrase origins, that is; I don't know if they've done "cock and bull," but it's not on the Big List.
• No listing for "cockpunch." Useless!
• languagehat: Although perhaps no hard evidence, but I think there is some truth to the story of the cock and bull. I used to live in Milton Keynes, in England- and in the adjacent town of Stony Stratford, there were indeed two pubs- now also hotels- the cock and the bull. I was told by the locals that this is where 'cock and bull' comes from. Also try a search on cock and bull and some of the links listed.
• cockpunch - see #4. (semi-self-link).
• *counters "thumbs down" on jb's entry* Was disappointed to find nothing on "over a barrel".
• no cockpunch, but this site cuts the mustard for me.
• hey! what happened to my links? supposed to be http://www.worldwidewords.org/index.htm and http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-cut1.htm, respectively.
• Yeah, worldwidewords is excellent. I was told by the locals that this is where 'cock and bull' comes from. Sigh. No offense, but this is exactly on a par with "My girlfriend's cousin knew a guy who was out in the woods with a date when they heard this noise..." Lexicography is not based on what the locals say. If there were a particular town with a pair of such pubs with documented names and a documented trail of quotes leading back to them (1476, Letters of Sam Swindon of Swinchester: The tale that was told of late in the Cocke regarding the two-headed child has now reached the patrons of the Bull; 1521: Tis as they say in Swinchester, a tale told in the Cock will be next in the Bull; 1589: This is no more than a Swinchester Cock-and-Bull story; &c &c), that would be evidence. Absent such a trail, it's just another folktale.
• languagegat: whatever, be arrogant all you want. I'm sure you own the truth.
• They claim "Bad Hair Day" originated in the Buffy The Vampire Slayer film. Uh, bullshit. I first heard the phrase in the eighties.
• Martijn, I'm not trying to be arrogant, and I'm sorry you choose to take it that way. If you can't see the difference between the kind of evidence I described and what some guys up the road say, I don't know how I can convince you, but this is not about me "owning the truth," it's about how lexicographers decide where words and phrases come from.
• languagegat: whatever, be arrogant all you want. I'm sure you own the truth. Fucking hilarious. Perhaps you should have a quick look at his blog, Martijn1973.
• When I was 73 It was a very good year It was a very good year For martijns Who owned no dictio-neer Now I am 85 I have a Robert Stuck up my goulet Very Preasant!
• "Cock and bull story" is short for "cockamamie and utter bullshit story". That's always been my take on it. Don't know if it started that way.
• Nonsense. "Cock and bull story" actually comes from "cogitable story". I own the truth.
• Utter rubbish, you truth owners. A "cock and bull" story is a charming little tale about my huge cock and a certain papal bull - the Apostolic letter by Pius XII which ruled that it was sinful for comely young maids of virtue true not to dance joyfully around my erect manhood singing songs of praise and showering it with rose petals.
• quidnunc nails it.
• Monkeys - please! - never get in a fight With languagehat (most erudite)! 'bout the meanings of words, Adjectives, nouns or verbs - The ol' bastard is usually right! ;)
• You Sick Truth-owning Fucks.
• this is not about me "owning the truth," Not even just a tiny little smidgen?
• Don't think I care much who owns the truth just so I get to make up all the tales.
• Exactly. The lies (in the best possible sense) are much more worth owning than the Truth. The Truth is a small, pesky creature, coloured black, auburn and gold, with pointy teeth and a violent crest which it raises when cornered. It has three legs, and cannot be housetrained.
• Who owns the truff?
• Don't truff swim in large schools off the coast of Alaska?
• We sought the truff with pigs that snuff. A search for truth seemed more uncouth- a deeper dig than suits a pig.
• Flashboy, you're talking about the truths, of which there are many. The truths are shapeshifters; they appear different depending on where you view them from. The Truth wears jackboots. Its greatest fear is having its capital T knocked over. Generally it's the truths that do the knocking over of the capital T.
• My truth is better than your truth.
• The truths are shapeshifters; they appear different depending on where you view them from. The Truth wears jackboots. WOAH! And they say allegory is dead! *progresses like a pilgrim, walks like an egyptian*
• I AM THE LAW
• I'M CHARLES FOSTER KANE!!! Sing-Sing Gettys!! Sing-Siiiing!!!
• You're giving me a truthache.
• The truff, the truff, the truff is on fire! (from a joke so old I can only remember the punchline)