November 05, 2004

Political Assasination: mathowie is as good as his word. BTW: Bush sucks.
posted by Jerry Garcia 20 years ago
  • Funny, this place doesn't look like MeTa. The colors are all wrong.
  • It's NewsFilter.
  • For BS news that's already been discarded by another filter?
  • *threadjack* I think a great many people here and elsewhere needed the time and space to get angry, sad, depressed, and everything else. But at some point you have to move on, and this place and others wouldn't be all that much fun if we couldn't. I don't read MeFi all that much anymore, so I can't speak for the atmosphere, but as for MoFi, there's obviously a bias against Bush and for the broadly liberal view, but there are also some great posts from the other side(s). The diversity of opinion is the big reason I read the newsfiltery posts. I hope that never changes, whatever else does. Less flinging, I think, helps, and I hope things stay that way, even if we've had a few unfortunate posts lately.
  • i'm all for the less flinging. and we have lovely monkeys who are intelligent, articulate and all that stuff as well as 'publicans (or 'crats, or rightists, or lefties, or centrists, or crypto-anarcho-fascists - you know who you are!) Which is important. Ultimately, I don't care what someone's politics are, so long as they are well-articulated and thought-out and can be argued for. Not blind. I got over blind/slavish devotion to doctrine when I was a lefty at uni. The Marxists got right up my snout with their absolute, robotic obedience to the party line. Not one of them thought about what they were saying. Admittedly, I had a habit of pouncing on them and decrying classical Marxism as 'obsolete and workerist', and outlining how their categorization of people based on industrial commerce was fragmented by the nature of sociality in the late-20th Century. Possibly i was spoiling for the fight. Yes. Um.
  • I have never met anyone who called themselves a leftist who ever spouted classical marxism. When you were at uni, it must have been a long time ago.
  • Times change, ideologies move on when people have to vote for them. And the voters have to move on too.
  • I would spout marxist propaganda, but it doesn't seem to work in the English Speaking World, despite all of Engels' wishes.
  • On the chopping block I hope: MeFi 36756. On preview: Matt's arguing too. I was hoping for a tighter grip, goddamn lib'rals and their HTML.
  • Is this that thread where we post snything we want?
  • Only if you're ready to have it deleted forever. Word.
  • Fuck MeFi.
  • Metafilter really went downhill as a source of amusement and entertainment for me over the last year. All the political posturing and name calling is counter-productive, at least as I see it. I used to use it as an example of a well-run and essentially self-policing community. No more. I like this place better, although I only stumbled on it a couple of weeks ago. The discourse seems far more reasonable here. It reminds me of the way Metafilter was 3 years or so ago, when I first came acoss it. Maybe things will lighten up over there, now that the election is over, but I'm not holding my breath. I've been pining to get a membership there for almost two years, but now I find myself quite ambivalent about that desire. As for Palast's claims, well he may or may not be correct, but the fact is that the election is over. I've worked in elections for years, and a spoiled ballot is a spoiled ballot. No good can posssibly be served by revisting the results at this point.
  • Fuck MeFi. Fuck me, Fi.
  • retank - yes.
  • Well, at least some MeTa threads are still entertaining. I'm with some MoFites on this one: MeFi's a lot of fun -- for the infighting.
  • Heh, maybe mathowie should just have a sidebar link for all the shitty threads in one. The FPP stops mattering around comment 15.
  • Ah, quonsar, how I adore thee.
  • I, for one, want an rss feed of deleted MeFi threads.
  • I have refrained from posting in Mefi(I did at one time have an account there that I misplaced all login info)and other types of online discussions, for fear of contributing to the decline of of IQ levels in most these forums. I`ve never seen the quality of political discussions in these at such an all time low, and am fearful the non political posts might follow this course. I`ve presumed everyone who reads Mefi also reads Monkey, and another notorious(sic)file exchange website, and these three sites together constitute alot of web info reposts. With such a wealth of information at our fingertips, it`s a bad reflection on the combined intellect that should be, and used to be, working to better our world. Immaturity has no age limit, but we all have an expiration date. Now damn it,, quit your bitchin and making me act like Dr. Phil or and I`ll show you a monkey of a different color.
  • Detect Deleted Metafilter threads I use this little script on a daily basis to see what's been chopped. Alternately you can look at the rss mefi feed which has all the threads.
  • I don't like the tenor of this post. I myself have criticized MeFi many times, but it is an undeniable fact that their discussions, even fairly mundane ones like this one (and minus the obvious trolls), are far more interesting than the majority of the self-congratulatory stuff here on MoFi. What I wouldn't give for an Ethereal Bligh or an amberglow or a rushmc or a XQUZYPHYR around here! (Yes, I realise that these people probably have accounts here, but they never post.) MoFi on a good day is about as good as del.icio.us/popular. On bad days it is just a repository of pointless 'Curious George's and silly word-wresting. If you can just train yourself to ignore the mudslinging, I think you'll agree with me that MeFi's political threads — which is their worst product — is some of the best discussion to be found on the internet. Yes, this is too harsh and/or boot-licking, and yes I should reacquaint myself with my mirror.
  • Ethereal Bligh comments here relatively often (recently) as kmellis. rushmc sticks his head up over the battlements every so often too. amberglow was around a fair bit for a while (I think during MeFi outages). Just so as you know.
  • I take it that one needs a computer to appreciate these legendary posters, of whom you speak?
  • Thanks for the info, Wolof. I'll start paying attention to kmellis et al.
  • Let me see if I understand this. Your opinion about posted comments doesn't depend on the content? But instead, on the author?
  • Yes. I hate to be a nag about this, but you haven't presented your credentials yet, P-Boy. Gimme something impressive, something to convince me to obsess over your every word.
  • I keep my credentials in my pants. Sorry.
  • jeblis - that's a terrific script - loads of fun. I like reading mathowie's different reasons for deleting threads, especially his doublepost (a slightly sheepish "whatEVER!")
  • Am I the only one who sees "Howdy Doody" every time I see "Matt Howie"?
  • fuyugare: give it time. Ethereal Bligh, mefi 17454, april 2, 2004 amberglow, mefi 14275, july 28, 2002 XQUZYPHYR, mefi 14921, august 9, 2002 but rushmc, mefi 1897, october 11, 2000.
  • Argh: Yes.
  • Time to stop sniffing glue again
  • I see Math: Owie!
  • and we have lovely monkeys who are intelligent, articulate and all that stuff as well as 'publicans (or 'crats, or rightists, or lefties, or centrists, or crypto-anarcho-fascists - you know who you are!)Yeah. I heart Fes. Why aren't more conservatives Fes? It's unfair. I wouldn't mind much when they got voted in. Nostril: I don't know about where you live, but youy can find old-guard Marxists at clubs in New Zealand universities. Along with people making apologies for Stalin and the Campus Crusade for Christ (who I assume shouldn't be let near sharp objects lest they start killing everyone and letting God sort it out, per their forbears - honestly, it's like the German club coming up with a clever title alluding to Nazism).
  • I'll be glad when these MeFi arse-sniffing posts die off entirely.
  • Amen.
  • Thanks, quidlet. If anything in particular on this site blows groats, it's this topic by a long nose and a couple of ears. Enough now.
  • Agreed, Wolof. These posts are more dead-horse beating than the anti-bush threads.
  • Ohmygah, did you see what Mefi was wearing last week? What. Was it thinking. Like totally.
  • The only thing worse than a "Look what they're talking about at Metafilter" post is a "Look! Metafilter is talking about Monkeyfilter!" post. Makes me feel ashamed.
  • I heart Matt Haughey
  • MonkeyMetaMetaTalkFilter Filter
  • I wish Matt had done this kind of thing before the election. The noise level in the echo chamber was loud and at times very nasty, and energy was expended that could have been more used in a more productive way. But, in spite of that bit of Wednesday morning quarterbacking I too, will always ♥ and respect mathowie!
  • I say let's leave metafilter to the meatfilter-people. I can't really imagine anyone here doesn't know about metafilter. I mean if you are to keep people out and then complain about the people you already let in, I don't have a lot of time to waste on you.
  • fuyugare, you are a twat. I think this every time I read your pompous pseud bullshit. Haughty little tool, you are.
  • *smooch*
  • Haughty little tool, you are. Hey...
  • Ohmygah, did you see what Mefi was wearing last week? What. Was it thinking. Like totally. Blue and yellow are like. So. October.
  • I quite like fuyugare.
  • I have a dream that one day members of MoFi will be judged not by the letters in their names, but by the content of their comments.
  • I think mathowie's maybe getting a little too aggressive with the deletes. But then I like MeFi messy...
  • is this the thread were we talk about the Godpublicans stealing the election via Diebold fuckery?
  • Ethereal Bligh, mefi 17454, april 2, 2004 amberglow, mefi 14275, july 28, 2002 XQUZYPHYR, mefi 14921, august 9, 2002 but rushmc, mefi 1897, october 11, 2000. wendell, mefi 206, 1999 before Matt started keeping track of date-joined; mofi 74, November 26, 2003 (nine days after #1) I consider both sites "my web homes" (MeFi's my place in the mounains, MoFi my place on the beach, MSNBC.com my workplace and WendellWit.com my apartment in town... I could never afford that in Real Life) I've always been one of the most lighthearted, trivial and prone-to-chattiness members at Meta (and was often criticized for it... or maybe the term "eaten alive" is more accurate), so when this place started leaning toward the silly and chatty, I had no objections at all. As I have admitted at both sites, I've been going through some heavy emotional problems lately, emerging from some intense depression, and I can't tell you how much good the lighter tone of this site has been for me. For a while, the Web was the only place where my positive side even came out, and MoFi more than anyplace else. I owe tracicle a lot for starting this site when she did and managing it with such a light touch. That said, I don't think a little more discipline here would be a bad thing. If #1 had the ability to close threads that have gotten out of hand, rather than simply delete them. And, while I don't reccommend saving deleted threads in a semi-secret place like MeFi does, having a place on the sidebar to document deletions and their reasons would be quite useful. Hmmm... I just thought of that. I think I'm gonna suggest it to Matt in MetaTalk...
  • We've already established which site has cuter members. What more is there to say? Oh, and I'm still a mountain, by the way.
  • Funny you should say that, Wendell. I (or #2, depending on time this weekend - I'm going out of town for my nephew's birthday) will hopefully be putting a comment limit on threads. I'm thinking 300 comments maximum per thread, then that thread is closed. I'm sort of hoping that will increase the signal-to-noise ratio a little as people use the available space to discuss stuff, rather than go wild with the knowledge that a thread can go on forever. And, it's to help with load times, obviously. Turkmenbashi will be very sad. It'll be interesting to see if it changes anything, anyway.
  • Wendell's old school. That's it, I'm starting the cult back up.
  • fuyugare, you are a twat. I think this every time I read your pompous pseud bullshit. Haughty little tool, you are. posted by Nostrildamus at 04:23PM UTC on November 05 *smooch* posted by fuyugare at 04:41PM UTC on November 05 Haughty little tool, you are. Hey... posted by middleclasstool at 04:46PM UTC on November 05 Fuyugare: In regards to your earlier comment about wanting the metafilter-superstar-like posters like amberglow, etc. etc. here, I personally think you prove yourself wrong with your own argument. Back when I was just a lurker here, I always looked forward to your, middleclasstools, Nostrildamus, rocket88's and several other's posts in particular in the same way that I enjoy reading the posts of the more prominent members of the blue. I think this community is new enough not to have the sharply defined figures of metafilter, but they are indeed developing, as the above example illustrates. Comparison between here and the blue will always exist, but like Wendell says, it's a different vibe than metafilter which I don't think is necessarily better or worse, and the lack of "quality posters" is really just a lack of development of a sense of community, and by extension everyone's place in it. If things seem a little more 'tame' here, I think it's mainly because people see metafilter often as a snarkfest, and want to avoid that as much as possible in this germinal stage, but that doesn't mean that there aren't some really notable people here.
  • All right, I agree. Sorry y'all. I'll try to be more constructive from now on.
  • tracicle: It'll be interesting to see if it changes anything, anyway. I can see highly caffeinated and otherwise intoxicated monkeys staying up way past bedtime to post LAST!!!1!
  • I like Matt's solution of closing threads after a certain amount of time (3 days sounds good) and closing them earlier if he thinks they got out of hand. The only reason I like to see the deleted threads is to see Matt's pithy comments.
  • I think all monkeys are notable. I lurked around Mefi for over a year, I found much entertainment there, some interesting reading. It is where I discovered MoFi. I was leery about posting or commenting here on MoFi, when I first joined, for fear all would be snarky like MeFites tend to be. Some Mefites can be quite rude. The elitism is astounding at times. But here at MoFi, monkeys tend to be more tolerant and friendly. Flame wars are small, if they exist at all. I like this and I appreciate MonkeyBashi, for all she has done to make it possible. I heart all Monkeys, no matter what their religious or political view.
  • Do I care what amberglow, matt owie, y6y6y6 etc has to say about a mefi issue - will this effect me on mofi ... hmmm, nope. :) If I ever get an elusive mefi account I'm sure I'll be interested then. I like the idea of posting limits rather than time limits, gives people a chance to think about what they will post instead of feeling rushed to get a comment in - I don't think some topics wouldn't have expanded into the great debates they were under a time limit. --- Wendell's old school. That's it, I'm starting the cult back up. middleclasstool here is an excellent primer on being the ultimate cult guru. Might bring you more success as a cult leader the second time around ;)
  • Damn. I was misinformed, then. I was told that this was where you auditioned to get a MeFi account. I was hoping to become the next ParisParamus.
  • I resemble some of the above remarks. No, actually, I was flattered, if only because (and I joke about it, but it does make me a little sad) my appearance on MeFi was notorious and lots of people dislike me. I've been coming to MoFi more often because it reminds me, like others, of the way MeFi used to be. I do think MoFi is a little too much in the chatty direction; but overall I appreciate the erring in this direction than in the mean-spirited (more-flinging) and way, way politically partisan direction of MeFi. I'm political, and I'll write political things, but I don't approve of (and try not to) use the front page posts of MeFi as a political platform for my opinions. I wouldn't like to see more of that here. And in that sense, I think Jerry Garcia's post is a worthwhile post. The mefi-watching is a little unseemly, and I think MoFi is its own thing and doesn't need to be, and should avoid, being in MeFi's shadow. On the other hand, it's a little silly to try to claim that MoFi in its history and spirit isn't related in some sense to MeFi, if even in the critical sense (to be something like MeFi, but different and...maybe better). So, this post has relevance in the sense of: how should MoFi deal with this same issue? As this community grows, and it's growing by leaps and bounds, it's gonna face many of these same problems, I'd bet.
  • fuck zell miller. best. comment. from howie. in recent memory.
  • Now, tracicle, you already told me not to post continuations to the Blogstop game. Now, if there's going to be a flat upper limit for comments in a post, is that supposed to also force an end to diversions like that, the Bashi bashing and the NaNoWriMonkey novels? If you do want to distance yourself from that kind of thread, can I drag them over to a site of my own (I still own MetaLifter.com, but I'll consider a different name, if consensus demands.)
  • MeFi == Hertz MoFi== Avis Since the field is wide open, I'd like to nominate myself for future MoFi celebrity mega-superstar status. Dammit! Figures! Now I can't think of anything brilliant to say.
  • celebrity mega-superstar status You backed up Barbra. You already a megahstah.
  • Why is it this type of thread is so great for the tags? Monkeyfilter: The colors are all wrong. Monkeyfilter: For BS news. Monkeyfilter: We’ve had a few unfortunate posts lately. Monkeyfilter: I was hoping for a tighter grip. Monkeyfilter: I find myself quite ambivalent. Monkeyfilter: Fuck me, Fi Monkeyfilter: Immaturity has no age limit, but we all have an expiration date. Monkeyfilter: I’ll show you a monkey of a different color. Monkeyfilter: I keep my credentials in my pants. Monkeyfilter: Time to stop sniffing glue again. Monkeyfilter: More dead horse beating. Monkeyfilter: Makes me feel ashamed. Monkeyfilter: *smooch* Monkeyfilter: My place on the beach Monkeyfilter: Highly caffeinated and otherwise intoxicated monkeys staying up way past bedtime Ah yes, I come for the posts, I stay for the taglines.
  • Can anyone tell me what this thread is actually about?
  • Monkeyfilter: Can anyone tell me what this thread is actually about? sorry Skrik
  • 13 minutes from comment to tagline... impressive.
  • Now, if there's going to be a flat upper limit for comments in a post, is that supposed to also force an end to diversions like that, the Bashi bashing and the NaNoWriMonkey novels? I wouldn't say "force", but it is a side-effect. But being realistic, that wasn't what MoFi was meant to be about in the beginning, and I don't know that it's what MoFi should be about now. Here we have people saying the signal-to-noise ratio is getting high, and then we have these threads that are, really, just noise. I'm not saying I don't enjoy them because I do like the NaNoWriMo thread. But I think you see what I'm saying, right? I'm trying to make the site as palatable for as many people as possible, and I know that there'll always be someone who is unhappy but I'm aiming for the smallest possible number of unhappy people that I can get.
  • But if Daisy_May threads are outlawed, only outlaws will have Daisy_May threads.
  • I know that there'll always be someone who is unhappy but I'm aiming for the smallest possible number of unhappy people that I can get. And there you have just about the ideal attitude for doing things right, and a good indication of why our tracicle is the ideal Monkeybashi. Ain't no such thing as perfection, so there's no point obsessing about it.
  • I know that there'll always be someone who is unhappy but I'm aiming for the smallest possible number of unhappy people that I can get. Well I disagree. Why should tracicle pick on small people, and make them all unhappy? God knows, they have enough trouble - many of the small people here are only two centimetres high! This is exactly the kind of heightist nazism which has ruined MoFi, and is the main reason why I left and never ever came back ever.
  • never ever came back ever quid, I hate to break this to you - but you're still here. *promises to lower contribution to noise*
  • Damn right I'm still here. I'm not going to let any inch-high nazis carry ME off to their underground kingdom and crawl up my anus and perform bizarre experiments and amateur theatre productions. YOU HEAR ME IN THERE, YOU MICROSCOPIC THESPIAN FREAKS? NEVER AGAIN.
  • many of the small people here are only two centimetres high Those are thumbnail pictutes you're looking at, quid. If you click on them, you'll see that the people are actually ten to twenty centimetres high (depending on your monitor).
  • oh right. well that still doesn't mean they didn't crawl up-a my ass and recite shakespeare or whatever. I gotta go take my pills now.
  • You can take my Daisy_May thread when you pry it from my cold, dead fingers. *searches MoFi for D_M thread* *cries*
  • m.c.tool, there is and only ever will be only one Daisy_May thread. All others are just imitatin'. *Watches in pity/amusement at Alnedra's monkey-like noisemaking* *pries Daisy_May thread from goetter's cold, dead fingers* *recites Shakespeare to quidnunc* this just in: i need a life.
  • But, but, but.... I like Daisy_May threads! sulks
  • Er... thread . Anyway, the only thing that got me through the last few months of this election year were the wacky blog-stop/turkmenbashi/daisy_may threads. And what about poor beeswacky? For god's sake, people! Think of poor beeswacky!
  • In fact, I would like to take this opportunity to voice my strong opposition to the imminent closure of these threads. These threads are places where monkeys may be playful, whimsical, and ridiculous, in a word, monkeys . From the beginning this site has been set apart by the willingness of its members to put aside vitriolic snarking and engage in light-hearted socialising, word-play and communal composition. Many of our most well-regarded members, from middleclasstool to beeswacky to pete_best(s) to squidranch to the_bone have participated in these threads, allowing us all to get to know each other a little bit better in a congenial setting away from the confrontation inherent in the political (and second most popular) posts. True, there are some members who object to the threads as a matter of principal, but as far as I can tell they are in a vocal minority. If you are making this decision based on server or bandwidth limitations, then I offer no objection. But if you are making this decision simply to appease a few people who complain about the 'signal to noise ratio' (and who frankly don't have to participate, read or be in any way negatively effected by these threads ) I urge you to reconsider.
  • What makes you think that lightheartedness and whimsy have to be restricted to those threads? It's not like fun will be banned. And 200 comments is a heck of a lot, still. The NaNoWriMo thread is still a long ways off that.
  • RIOT IN THE ZOO!
  • tracicle has done well by us all so far, so before getting anxious and fretful, why not give these new ideas a chance? I trust tracicle's judgement. Change happens, and it's often more interesting when it does. Since we seem to be growing at a rate of 10 monkeys a day, we'll have 3600 new members in the next twelve monthwe'll all be outnumbered by 1300 of them -- eek! --and we need to be flexible and willing to find new solutions. Even experiment, to see what works. I like new amusements, too, and I'm looking forward to what we'll become.
  • What both Bees and Nickdanger said, also what Monkeybashi said. Let us not be afraid of change, since it is inevitable, and let us retain that which makes monkeys monkeys. And GramMa has nice fetlocks.
  • Monkeyfilter: GramMa has nice fetlocks.
  • It's not like fun will be banned. True, I guess I'm viewing the threads in question as emblematic of a certain spirit here on MoFi that I feel is being threatened. I suppose what really set me off is all this talk of 'signal to noise ratio,' ( a term just behind 'troll' and 'shadenfreude' in regards to how much I cringe every time I read it). I don't exactly know what the prhase means, but I have a sneaking supiscion, based on the circumstances it has surfaced in, that 'signal'=issue related seriousness/debate and 'noise'=off-topic whimsy. They are both valuable, but these days I find myself more often seeking out the 'noise' rather than the 'signal.' I'd hate to see one of my favorite things about MoFi get discouraged. That being said, I'm glad you won't be making fun illegal, and I shall abide by the decision of 'Bashi. swirls cloak, exits counsel chamber.
  • I know, I know, but I just have to post this gem, from the Mefi thread, "Fuck the South": Is this crap really newsworthy? I wait, I forgot. It's Metafilter. posted by aaronshaf at 7:01 AM PST on November 9
  • Well, you're welcome to call me a flip-flopper here. :) I did a lot of thinking last night and ran it past #2, and decided that putting a limit on comments wouldn't make much difference anyway. He was keen to put a time limit on threads and I said no to that because it's one of the things I like that sets us apart from Mefi - the fact that threads can go on for months and be added to any time. So then I realised that a comment limit would do the same thing and so in the end I decided against it, for now.
  • Well, you could just put a bigger cap on it -- honestly, how many threads have gone over 500? Only two that I cared anything about -- Turkmenbashi and Daisy_May. Most threads here won't ever go that long, and most of those that do would take months, if not years, to do so. The only ones that exploded overnight were the political debate threads, and a 500 cap might discourage that kind of overly-detailed play-by-play while still granting lots of space to play. I'd also like to go on record as saying that if bandwidth costs ever become an issue, I wouldn't at all be averse to some ad-based revenue. The site's more than worth it to me, especially given that it's free.
  • It was the cloak swirl that changed your mind, wasn't it? It's okay, you can admit it. It was very impressive, after all.
  • these days I find myself more often seeking out the 'noise' rather than the 'signal.' I'd hate to see one of my favorite things about MoFi get discouraged. Exactly. And yeah, the cloak swirl pushed my buttons. I'm with MCT on the ad issue and see no need for caps of any kind.
  • Tracicle, what about a limit that kicks in when a certain number is reached, then automatically kick over to a Part2 thread? Like, Turkmenbashi, part 493? And you can flip flop all you want. It can be quite fun.
  • Or just have the capability to close comments on threads gone bad (as opposed to Threads Gone Wild) instead of just deleting the whole shebang (it's like a Life Sentence instead of a Death Sentence)...
  • Oh! Oh! Oh! Oh! Islander complimented my nether regions!!!! And Bratcat put MY name in a tagline!!!! *grins from ear to ear and whinnies loudly This is better than a birthday.