October 13, 2004

6 years ago, Matthew Sheppard was brutally beaten to death. His father, Dennis, gave one of the most compelling speeches I've ever read. I'm sorry, this is my second post today, but I feel this post necessary... Let's not forget, this type of thing still happens.
posted by Warrior 20 years ago
  • Are people still beaten to death for being gay?
  • Are people still beaten to death for being gay? Sadly, fuyugare, yes and it is only increasing.
  • Thank you, Warrior.
  • they're about to fry a gay basher in Texas tonite.
  • That was a moving speech, though I would have liked to have seen forgiveness at the end. Still, it was clear-minded and effective.
  • I can't imagine ever feeling forgiveness to someone who beat their son to death, acceptance yes, but forgiveness? I can't for the life of me understand hating someone for who they choose to sleep with or fall in love with. It is, quite plainly, beyond me, and just makes me feel very sad for the human race.
  • Did anyone see the made for TV movie about this case ?
  • What he's really saying is: Men marrying men is stupid. Let's pass a constitutional amendment outlawing stupidity. I mean, how can you be pro-stupidity? Are you some kind of freak?
  • No, Alex, never imagine that you can defame an entire group of people so casually and not be criticised for it. By any reasonable terms that aren't tautologously self-defining, the "right-wing" do not want to round us up and exterminate us. To say so is to fall into the same lazy trap of easy hatred that the very people you criticise have done.
  • Either you're jokingly playing devil's advocate or apologizing for a bigot. What he's saying is that he'd like gay people to be wiped off the earth. I'm quoting him in full context. Listen to the transcript for yourself. As far as civil rights for gay folks goes, the Republican platform is to wear a big smile, quote the Bible and kill 'em all. Nothing I've seen or read goes against that fact.
  • If you think I'm being "casual" about my choice of words, listen to the applause that springs so liberally (sorry) from Swaggart's audience. There's nothing casual about open hatred.
  • "In a homosexual relationship, there is nothing implied except the self-fulfillment, contentment and satisfaction of the parties involved in the relationship," said [Illinois Republican Senate candidate Alan] Keyes, who holds a Ph.D from Harvard University. "That means it is a self-centered, self-fulfilling, selfish relationship that seeks to use the organs intended for procreation for purposes of pleasure. The word pleasure in Greek is hedone and we get the word hedonism from that word." -- "I’m not in the mood to play with those who are trying to kill our children." -- Donnie McClurkin, GOP Convention entertainer speaking about gays. Donnie McClurkin, one of the just-announced entertainers to be performing at the GOP Convention in NYC, thinks homosexuality is a "curse," that it's caused by men raping small children, that being gay is a choice, that it can be cured, and most explosively, that gays are trying to "kill our children."... The recent limelight on the homosexual agenda has Donnie stirred. "The gloves are off," he says. "And if there’s going to be a war, there’s going to be a war. But it will be a war with a purpose." He is very concerned that the Christian community is not outraged at the recent homosexual high school in New York. "This is not a privately funded school. It is a public school funded by taxpayers' money. Why isn’t anyone else speaking out?" he asks. Donnie believes that it actually puts the children more at risk than if they were attending a regular high school. "Everyone knows that everyone at the high school is homosexual. That makes for an easy target." --- Republicans Relaunch the Antigay Culture Wars "...Rove & Co. want to energize the Christian-right base to which Bush is already so heavily indebted (it motored his 2000 primary victories against John McCain) and insure a maximum turnout among the AWOL evangelicals and other Christian traditionalists... Pushing the antigay hot button is also designed to help the Republicans increase their Congressional majorities." --- Don't kid yourself one iota about the right-wing agenda of hatred. Make sure you know exactly who and what you're voting for November 2nd.
  • Never thought I'd be sticking up for Swaggart... hell, I work for a gay arts organization... but "I'm gonna kill him and tell God he died" is a cliche, albeit an obscure and underused one. I've heard my grandmother use it on many occasions (but never about gays; one of my uncles was gay and she has always been very pro-gay rights). That doesn't change the ignorance or vitriol behind the statement of course, or the insanity that people still consider Swaggart relevant. Scary stuff. I don't recall offhand, but there have to be more condemnations of adultury and sex with prostitutes in the Bible than condemnations of homosexuality. The best deconstructions of Swaggart that I've ever heard can be found on Frank Zappa's amazing live album The Best Band You Never Heard In Your Life.
  • Alex, "the right-wing" is not synonymous with Jimmy fucking Swaggart, nor is it synonymous with Alan Keyes* or any of these other bastards. You chose to write "the right-wing" - either you did so with full deliberation, or you did so out of rhetorical laziness. If it was the latter, I don't see how you can argue with my use of the word "casual". If it was the former, then I'd like to see you defend the claim that (and let's put a generous interpretation on your words) the majority of right-wingers want gay people to be rounded-up and exterminated. (Use of the phrase "more or less" is not permissable.) None of your links back up your claim - they are not representative of the right-wing as whole, and they do not call for extermination fo homosexuals. Don't invent holocausts (more or less) where none exist, because in doing so you make a mockery of the honest fight against the prejudice and hatred that your own links expose so well. Oh, and I won't be voting for anyone on November 2nd. I'd love to be able to, but... *Alan Keyes, hateful fuckwit that he is, does not to my knowledge advocate the extermination of gays (more or less). If he did, d'you not think he might have started at home?
  • ... but you're a felon?
  • Be honest... you were pulling a "Swaggart", weren't you?
  • She isn't a ho unless you gave her the money
  • I don't even know how or where to begin. There is just too much to say, and in my anger, I'm not capable of saying it at all well. f8x, no one can ask a parent to forgive the animal who murdered their child. This wasn't accidental, it was deliberate.
  • ... but you're a felon? Melon, bone, I'm a melon.
  • Don't invent holocausts (more or less) where none exist, because in doing so you make a mockery of the honest fight against the prejudice and hatred that your own links expose so well. You're absolutely right: Reagan was a champion of AIDS research, the 1980s never happened, and the right-wing loves gay folk.
  • Yeah, dude. That's exactly what I said. Well paraphrased. *gives up*
  • Given that Reagan was a two-term prez, with a landslide majority won in his second term, I feel pretty confident saying that the majority of the right-wing — if not the majority of the country — would have been happy to have AIDS (or whatever) wipe out all homosexuals. I honestly don't think much has changed twenty years later. Rove's election strategy is to enlist as much support from the fundamentalist Christian right (which is the majority of the right) as possible, and policy decisions have followed suit. Four million fundamentalists did not vote Republican in the 2000 elections. Rove wants that crowd across the country to vote heavily this time along, and he will ensure that Bush does everything he can to get their support. There's nothing casual about a little homework. If it walks like a duck, and quacks like a duck, well...
  • She isn't a ho unless you gave her the money Hey, that's my mom you're talking about there.
  • Alex, you do realize that Swaggert is pretty much a pariah even among most right-wingers. Darshon, I'm certainly not asking him to forgive. I was just expressing my personal hope.
  • Great points, Alex Reynolds, and thank you Warrior for the post. Violence in general disgusts me. Violent acts based upon prejudice are despicable. Having a gay son, I can attest to the pervasiveness of homophobic rot in the U.S. When he was fifteen, he suffered an attack in his high school at the hands of a group of bullies who did not know, but assumed he was gay. His brother, who is heterosexual, suffered similarly years later, and his attackers also made the assumption he was gay (apparently walking with a male friend late at night is incontrovertible evidence of homosexuality to the prejudiced buffoon segment of the population). Having been the reporting officer at dozens of other gaybashings over the years, I know these are not isolated incidents. Best wishes to the Sheppard family (who need express no forgiveness toward the bigots who killed their kin) and anyone who suffers because of homophobia. And, those of you defending that asshole Swaggart, stop and think about his words. He really would like to see all gays exterminated, and any attempt to say he's 'just expressing himself' only opens the door wider for more bigotry and violence.
  • Alex, you do realize that Swaggert is pretty much a pariah even among most right-wingers. I'd agree with you if I heard the Right ever publicly admonish its fascist elements. But I have to respectfully give your point as much credence as the defense I hear from the neo-Marxist grad students I argue with on my street, who tell me that Communism is still a great idea, even if Stalin murdered about 20 million. As it stands, the Right never seems to get around to an apology, even though it certainly has the media airtime for it. So I'll just make my "casual" observations, walk with my boyfriend hand-in-hand to the polls in a few Tuesdays, and vote accordingly. To bring myself back on topic, let us hope that we can get representation that will help reduce the likelihood of any of us becoming victims the way that Sheppard and countless others were, because the evidence is clear that it seems pretty damn likely a Right-dominated government will have few qualms about making us non-entities. I'm not even sure the Constitution could survive another four years of Bush and friends, let alone protect the civil rights of people, gay or otherwise.
  • It's difficult to understand what it feel like to be a target. Every moment of your waking life, KNOWing that a segment of your countrymen actively desire to see you die, after subjecting you to immense torture. And your pretty impotent to stop it, if it happens to you. Even if you're lucky enough to escape The Attack, how many people are really going to give damn? Not many. So you just keep living your life, since that's all you know how to do, and keep hoping The Attack never happens to you. In the process, you watch a religious leader on television. This man speaks for an all-knowing, all-caring god. He says to you and the whole world that he would KILL YOU without provocation, and then lie to his all-knowing god about it. It has to be really fucking tough for a gay person to keep their cool when talking about this guy. It's definitely a very charged topic, and it has to be damn painful watching people jump to his defense. It has to be even worse that it's not even another gay-basher defending him, but someone educated and open-minded, because you expect it from the shitheads, but not from the people who are supposed to give a damn. To whoever this applies to: you have my sympathies and support, whatever that's worth.
  • For what it's worth, here is a site I found that does a pretty decent job debunking the readings of scripture that are often used to justify this kind of bigotry and hatred. Not to add gasoline to the fire, but the first time I saw this, I had a visceral reaction to it. It boggles my mind that there is so much unrestrained hatred out there aimed at our gay brothers and sisters. Fred Phelps is a disease.
  • I feel pretty confident saying that the majority of the right-wing — if not the majority of the country — would have been happy to have AIDS (or whatever) wipe out all homosexuals. you need to have t-shirts printed up and posters to sell. You are a sad figure, and have nothing but pity from me. You, of course, have every right to your opinions, but you have become as rabid as what you rail against. I hope one day you will find peace.
  • our gay brothers I have a gay brother. Very pleasant and intelligent person. Unlike myself.
  • You are a sad figure, and have nothing but pity from me. You, of course, have every right to your opinions, but you have become as rabid as what you rail against. I hope one day you will find peace. After you've read Shilts' And the Band Played On, if you still feel like dismissing everything I've said, go ahead. The real world is unpleasant, sometimes. Sorry!
  • So how many US Monkeys live in states that are about to pass amendments to their state constitutions banning gay marriage? Being from Arkansas myself, I'm in a place where they're not only going to ban gay marriage, but remove any possibility of ever recognizing civil unions and, quite probably, nullify any common law heterosexual marriages now in force. You know, like Jesus wanted. That'll pass on the same day my state likely goes to GW. Which for me is ten kinds of depressing.
  • So how many US Monkeys live in states that are about to pass amendments to their state constitutions banning gay marriage? We've got an ammendment on the ballot here in Ohio that is similar to what you describe. It defines marriage as between one man and one woman: "Only a union between one man and one woman may be a marriage valid in or recognized by this state and its political subdivisions." But it goes on to state that "This state and its political subdivisions shall not create or recognize a legal status for relationships of unmarried individuals that intends to approximate the design, qualities, significance or effect of marriage." That last bit has inspired many Ohio Republican politicians, including both of our U.S. senators, to oppose the measure because it goes too far (they all say they want to "protect marriage" but can't support the ammendment as worded). The leader of the group that backs the ammendment has denounced the Republicans as "liberals" who want to advance the "homosexual agenda"! When the AARP announced their opposition he called them senile. Gotta love it!
  • I was just reading in a friend's blog about an aquaintance of hers who was drugged in a gay bar in Denver (a city known for being gay-friendly), beaten, burned with cigarettes, and left unconcious near a highway. I'd link you to a story, but apparently the "liberal" media has decided that the latest in a string of such assaults isn't newsworthy. So, yeah, I don't think Alex is overstating the situation by as much as we'd like to think.
  • Ah, yed. Isn't it great to live in the "Heartland"? If I recall correctly, the provision would prohibit any government entity from recognizing and providing benefits to an unmarried partner of an employee. This is especially hurtful to the universities. To attract top researchers and professors, the public universities need these types of benefits to compete with other institutions.
  • It's difficult to understand what it feel like to be a target. One should be careful about making assumptions like this. It may be that many people on this board are gay, and understand completely what it is like to be a target, and yet at the same time may not necessarily agree with everything said in their name on this thread. There are very serious issues here. But it is also one thing to jump from a discussion of gay bashing (a crime that we should all be worried about) to the old saw on Republicans versus Democrats. There's nothing that says you can't be a homophobic communist, or a gay libertarian, Or a gay fundamentalist Christian for that matter. That's the thing about diversity - it's diverse. There are people who listen to Jimmy Swaggart who will vote Democratic - unless you believe people who say that party is completely godless? Personally, I'm completely sick and tired of this constant US-centric sniping. If it's not a thread on US politics, keep your elephants and donkeys out of the thread - do it for the sake of the sanity of your fellow monkeys. Go to Devoter - help that blog get going.
  • Hang on, jb, just one more mercuncentric comment. Why would any gay person in this political climate want the gummint to have their name, address, phone number....don't you see how very very scary things are right now? How long before the phrase "Registered Homosexual" gets into the lexicon? You can call me a coward or a nut, I'll cop to both, but I think the country could go either way right now.
  • Some nuggets from Tom Coburn, Republican US Senate candidate from Oklahama: "The gay community has infiltrated the very centers of power in every area across this country, and they wield extreme power. ... That agenda is the greatest threat to our freedom that we face today. Why do you think we see the rationalization for abortion and multiple sexual partners? That's a gay agenda." "You know, Josh Burkeen is our rep down here in the southeast area. He lives in Colgate and travels out of Atoka. He was telling me lesbianism is so rampant in some of the schools in southeast Oklahoma that they'll only let one girl go to the bathroom. Now think about it. Think about that issue. How is it that that's happened to us?"
  • Personally, I fail to see how abortion is part of the gay agenda. What, gays hate babies? Most of the gay couples I know are desperate to adopt. But of course, in Arkansas, they can't...
  • Being gay "is [a sin]... You should try to show them a way to deal with that problem, just like alcohol...or sex addiction...or kleptomaniacs." - Senate Republican Leader Trent Lott, June 15, 1998 "The notion that is involved in homosexuality, the unbridled sort of satisfaction of human passions' leads to 'totalitarianism,' 'Nazism,' and 'communism.' " - Illinois Republican Senate candidate Alan Keyes, People for the American Way, "Hostile Climate," 1997, p.26. "...Perhaps gay scout leaders just really liked camping. But it was also possible that gay men who wanted to lead troops of adolescent boys into the woods were up to no good." - Ann Coulter, "Should Gay Priests Adopt? "If the Supreme Court says that you have the right to consensual [gay] sex within your home, then you have the right to bigamy, you have the right to polygamy, you have the right to incest, you have the right to adultery. You have the right to anything." - Pennsylvania Senate Republican Rick Santorum