October 09, 2004

the debate Who's gonna watch. If her highness monkeybashi doesn't mind, let's post the running comentaries here.
posted by squidranch 19 years ago
  • O fucking goddamn
  • dng sums up the running commentary in three words.
  • Ah, come on kids. It's gonna be fun.
  • Well, I'm watching. But I suspect any commentary I have will be variations on dng's.
  • And ignore me, squidranch, I'm just an irritable troll...
  • That's alright my bitter little simians, get it all out. It's all a fake cluster fuck, but it makes for great television. Much better than Survivor or that sort of crap. I just want to watch Bush twitch on a string.
  • Fuck this catharsis crap, I wanna see some real gambling.
  • Ten quid if Bush punches Kerry
  • Ooh, you like to play the long odds, eh? Me, I'll take a safer bet. 10 shiny dollars says Bush calls Kerry a tax-and-spend liberal at least once. Donated to MoFi bandwidth/hosting etc. I am not kidding.
  • Bill Moyers is going to have the third party candidates on his show tonight, but he Libertarian cadidate may get arrested at the debate.
  • I'm still at work, can anyone provide a link for future viewing?
  • I think cspan will replay it later tonight, Cali.
  • Ten quid if Bush punches Kerry Twenty if punches him in the cock.
  • Well, I voted. 15 minutes ago.
  • For Howard?
  • The Thank You from Kerry was far shorter this time. and the town-hall thing is kinda weird after the last two debates. Bush, however, has had at least 4 annoyed looks on his face so far.
  • 'He changes positions' -- Bush about Kerry. Bush, on the other hand, is a steadfast bottom.
  • Bush=steadfast
  • "And obviously we hope that diplomacy work before we use force…" but if I'm given the power to attack, I'll do it immediately, just like I did last time.
  • I think Bush is trying really, really hard to keep his face impassive. Not doing a great job of it, but trying. Kerry rambled in answering the first question about wishy-washyness. Now Bush gets to answer the rationale for invasion question. "Each situation is different...." Aaaaand here we go! 9/11! Threat! 9/11! Protect the American people! Weapons of MASS DESTRUCTION! One trick pony.
  • First reference to the CIA paper. It's taken nearly 2 minutes.
  • What? Kerry's answering two questions at once? That's crazy! Such a thing has never been done before.
  • What kind of an angle is that on Bush's head in resting state? 20, 25 degrees? But Hussein couldn't give weapons to terrorists, because he...oh, Kerry's covering that. Well done.
  • Kerry has Bush blinking now. The twitches can't be far behind.
  • I wonder if anyone's going to bring up the Poland, who recently decided to drop out of the coalition/
  • "America must use a global test before we can protect ourselves." -- Bush 'quoting' Kerry.
  • Oh, we're making the interim President of Iraq sad. Now I feel bad.
  • What is Bush rambling about now? His point about "the wrong war" eludes me. "I know how these people think." "I talk to Tony Blair all the time." What?
  • Was Bush making kissy faces at someone in the audience? I think he was.
  • Bush is so winning this debate.
  • He mentioned Reagan, everyone has to finish their drink.
  • 'Taking Saddam Hussein out was unpopular.' -- Bush
  • He is doing much better than last time, i'll admit.
  • Bush is too blinky. Too twitchy. Seems creepy.
  • Oh so it was the fault of his GENERALS!
  • Neither of them are fucking answering the questions!!! Aargh.
  • Jim Carrey is trying to hide Kate Winslet in his childhood memories, having realised that Elijah Wood stole his memories in order to seduce her.
  • Bush is doing better than I expected, although that isn't saying much. Kerry's holding his own. I want to punch Jim Lehrer in the liver. There's not enough alcohol in this city to make me want to watch Bush for an hour and a half (unless the bush we're talking about is in a porno). I'm thinking about hightailing over to the movie house... The Corporation opens in Lauderdale tonight.
  • 'getting inspectors into the reactors' -- Kerry WHAT?!
  • So, um, Kerry, what would you DO??? About Iran. Remember the question?
  • Ooops. I think I'm watching the wrong thing.
  • I believe Bush means, "The Brits, the Germans, and the Freedoms."
  • "That answer almost made me want to scowl." He was so expecting a laugh there, and even gave that little "I'm starting to laugh at myself" thing he does. He looked so bummed when he realized that the audience was sedated with Thorazine.
  • 'rumour on the internets' -- Bush
  • Thank you flashboy the humor check. I was getting a little upset there.
  • He just said "rumors on the internets". He said "internets".
  • Wait, there's more than one Internet?
  • rumors on the internets? That's why Bush is so out of touch! He's never been on the internet. now I get it.
  • "moving troops out and replacing them with more effective weapons"...? We have droids?
  • Oh darn you fast typers
  • we need to be more facile.
  • There are as many Internets as there are alternate universes. I imagine there's even an Internet in the alternate Bizzaro universe Bush inhabits.
  • Is anyone else bothered by the term "unmanned"? It makes me feel that the poor vehicles have had their dangly bits cut off.
  • I was waiting for Bush to direct us to snopes.com to debunk that draft thing. Meanwhile, kerry is FUCKING HIM UP overall. Bush is on the defensive and Kerry is showing his training as a prosecutor.
  • we need to be less prolix.
  • Now Bush is arguing with the moderator. He is losing the election right now.
  • He didn't forget Poland.
  • Bush is throwing a hissy-fit. (Poland!)
  • How many quid if the commentator gets punched?
  • he's imploding
  • Everytime Bush scribbles a note it's like... what, two words? Woah, he's yelling at the moderator!
  • Bush is REALLY MAD NOW!!!!
  • stepping on charles gibson: a sign of strength or the guarantee that bush loses this debate in the final analysis?
  • freaking fucking out
  • Tsk.
  • He is turning into an angry Dole/Nixon hyrbid before our eyes.
  • freaking fucking out
  • Kerry, MENTION THE FACT THAT POLAND IS LEAVING, YOU FUCKER!
  • That was awesome.
  • Gotta say, Kerry looks professional and calm. Not like a twitching lunatic.
  • How would they x-ray the cargo hold?
  • *blink* *blink, blink* *blink*
  • he's blinking so fast his eyes are going to catch fire.
  • When Bush specifically brought up Poland, why the fuck didn't Kerry mention that they were pulling out faster than a high school football player who realized the condom broke while he was pelvis-deep in Coach's daughter?
  • Mr. Bush, 1993 was eleven years ago.
  • The PATRIOT ACT is vital, eh. You cockmonger.
  • It would be kinda nice if Kerry would answer questions. I think the difficulty comes in from the fact that the RNP already has their attacks out, and they can be a bit more leisurely when they're not doing their talking points. The DNC hasn't been quite as effective in spreading the talking points throughout the media, so ... Tripled the homeland security budget? Since when? There wasn't a department of homeland security before Bush took office.
  • I want to hear Kerry say "You'd be lucky with being right 10% of the time".
  • Dr. Robotnik: using cargo x-raying machines. Duh. Talk about a stupid question.
  • people who are drinking on 'wrong war wrong place wrong time" are going to ER with alcohol poisioning right now...
  • And Iraq is ALREADY a havan for terrorists, you dolt.
  • 'This war is a long, long war.' -- Bush
  • charles gibson always has to go for that kindly-uncle pepperidge-farm folksy crap.
  • Dude, Bush was just standing there totally pissed off as Kerry started to answer! Jeez!
  • "people working overtime" for regular pay
  • They would use Superman to X-Ray the cargo hold. Duh.
  • he's worried. But freedom is the key
  • 'I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about this country.' -- Bush
  • "I'm worried... I'm worried... I'm worried about our country." Then he starts talking about overtime, then veers back into terrorism. What the hell?
  • "I'm worried. I'm worried. I'm worried about our country." Not as worried as I am, Mr. president.
  • Or, I suppose, x-raying machines, if you prefer, fuyugare.
  • Are you canadians dead yet from your dangerous medicines?
  • oh, man, from what i hear canadian drugs can "cure" you, all right.
  • screw the loose nukes in Russia, its the poision Canadian drugs that are gonna kill us!
  • Those damn Canadian drugs. Damned third world labs.
  • he's a freedomaker
  • 'When a drug comes in from Canada, I want to make sure it cures you and doesn't kill you... It looks like it's from Canada, it might be from the third world.' -- Bush
  • Mizzurrah?
  • "Missoura!"
  • he's all about freedom
  • "It looks like it's from Canada, but it might be from a third world." Because we don't want to imply that the Canadians might make lower-quality drugs.
  • "because I went to washington to fix problems."
  • Love the split screen. Kerry looks totally perplexed when he listens to Bush.
  • Bush's soundbites were stolen from Snap's "The Power." "It's gettin', it's gettin', it's gettin' kind of hectic. I'm worried, I'm worried, I'm worried about our country."
  • I want to hear some new facts. Kerry just demolished Bush last time by having great sound byte facts. But he needs new ones. The Rove squad has been training on these too long.
  • Oh goody - we get to talk about Amurica now
  • I am so enjoying this. That chimp (sorry about the monkey reference) is twitching and blinking like a mofo!
  • I LURRVE TEH FREED0|\/|
  • I think it's interesting how Kerry turns to face Bush and says the things that are most likely to be irritating.
  • Reaching into the jacket to adjust the mic?
  • Clinton did it! So there! Way to score.
  • "Show me one accomplishment toward Medicare that he accomplished." WHY DOES BUSH HATE GRAMMAR?
  • George Bush just seduced me with that wink.
  • He winked at someone now! Oh my god, Bush is making out with everyone in the audience, on the air.
  • kerry thinks there's just one internet!! what a boob!!!
  • Clinton did it! Clinton did it!
  • mwhybark: I'm sure that it's calculated to piss Bush off and goad him into a mistake, as well as to show the American people that "Kerry stands up to Bush."
  • Kerry: "the internet," gets URL right. OK, so it's his NAME, but still.
  • kerry = n00b
  • George Bush always looks like he just woke up.
  • Clinton did it! Clinton did it!
  • next thing: Bush will be directing people to whitehouse.com.
  • t_b: oh, certainly. It's effective entertainment, too.
  • That's a lot of plans. I mean, I'm not saying it's a bad thing to have a plan, but that's a lot to do in just a few years. I don't know if someone lesser than James J. Polk could get that done.
  • Hard work.
  • But Ted Kennedy isnt on the ticket. You got nothing, buddy. Sorry.
  • he called kerry "kennedy". What a joke
  • Cheney is a liberal?
  • Senator Kennedy? Did he say Senator Kennedy?
  • "That shows a lack of understanding." -Bush
  • *thunk*
  • god, it is great fun to watch this fucker implode
  • wow, this is some intensely impacted threading.
  • die, bush, die
  • Rationing?
  • Yeah, what's with this defensive medicine? I want offensive medicine! Saying offensive is our best, best for our, it's best for America.
  • You got to love the baseball metaphors.
  • you're batting 0 for 2 = score
  • Government sponsored healthcare leads to rationing?
  • man, this is fun. fuck it, i'll see "the corporation" tomorrow.
  • Government-sponsored healthcare is bad? I can see government-managed healthcare, but sponsored? Oooh, a baseball metaphor.
  • whoops...'Staying offensive'
  • this thread is going to be the greatest epic poem ever by the end of the debate
  • Bush's healthcare is government sponsored. Has he personally experienced rationing?
  • Yes, please explain your spending habits.
  • He said "recession." Republicans dont admit that much.
  • What wartime president cuts taxes? Of course we have a deficit.
  • "We have a deficit because we went into a recession."
  • 'We have a deficit. We have a deficit because the country went into a recession.' -- Bush. Economists everywhere commit seppuku.
  • Oh, yeah, I think I got $5 back from my taxes. Woo.
  • Oxygen rationing, definitley.
  • he's gonna get NAILED on that 'added jobs" thing he just said. Another softball for Kerry to hit out of the park, if were doing baseball metaphors...
  • OK, this is ridiculous. You all should stop posting quotes. I mean six or seven duplicates, what the fuck?!
  • Now what caused that decifit?
  • bush doesn't realize it, but it's over for him.
  • Okay, so he's basically said that he is going to spend as much money as humanly possible and leave it for the next president (or 20) to deal with it.
  • who made you boss, fuyugare? this is outstanding use of technology
  • Blink Blink Blink.
  • Priceless Bush faces right now. Looks like he has a serious ass itch.
  • Charles Gibson kicks ass!
  • Host just nailed both of 'em on the defecit. Maybe HE can be president?
  • Yes, boys, how?
  • I hope Gwen's taking moderator notes.
  • mefi cosslink. Faster to post over here, fwiw. SCORE for the moderator calling BS on no details in plans! SMACK 'EM!
  • kerry doesn't have a leg to stand on when it comes to not being in the pocket of corporations. this is where i get misty eyed for ralph nader.
  • Actually, I am under the impression that Kerry thinks that taxing the over 200k will pay off the deficit, whereas Bush thinks that, I'm gathering, he can make congress more efficient in order to reduce the deficit.
  • I just flashed on something: we are the back row at a high school convocation. We are the peanut gallery, but, like, the BANANA GALLERY. "Right into the camera"? WTF?
  • Did Kerry actually say "Looking into the camera?"
  • "the no lobbyist left behind bill" = gold
  • McCain's back on the Xmas card list.
  • Someone finally got laugh.
  • what a world. bush complaining about kerry's credility. hey, look, there's no gravity -- we're all floating away !!!!
  • My high school principal plagiarized parts of his graduation speech every year. I know, off topic, but mwhybark just made me think of it.
  • battling green eye shades? Translator please?
  • Priceless Bush faces right now. Looks like he has a serious ass itch. From the latest Economist: (link not free--sorry!) "This time it was Mr Bush who wavered between defensiveness and aggression. He stood there, scowling, with drooped shoulders and mouth pulled tight, listening to Mr Kerry with all the attention and pleasure of a man clenching a dollar bill between his buttocks."
  • i think we both heard it, the_bone. I beleive he meant "I say this with no hesitation and total honesty," in which case, um, that's bad.
  • litigation reform is going to end the deficit!!
  • 'And he's just going to break all these wonderful promises.' -- Bush Wait, did Bush just say that Kerry will win?
  • Econ piece re Prez smackdown round one?
  • Tee hee! Environmentalist.
  • "You can run but you can't hide." Well, that convinced ME.
  • not going to rate himself as an environmentalist? that would've been laugh #2.
  • i got a sore spot on my inner city, too
  • sandspider, will you keep the pipe lower than the tops of the chairs, please? Here, have a beer.
  • mwhybark: I concur. Bleah.
  • Increase the wetlands by 3 million what?
  • He'll increase wetlands by the year 3 million! Of course, by then, we'll have moved on to Mars. But don't worry, he's on that as well.
  • Yes, the problem with our forests is that they're not being cut down.
  • HAHAHA! "forested arent harvested due to lousy policy!"
  • god, bush lives in upside down world. it's depressing
  • I proposed the hydrogen-generated automobile.
  • Tenderboxes? that's stepping up from the winking.
  • Yeah, man, those forest fires have GOT to be dealt with.
  • Oh, Bush proposed the hydrogen automobile.
  • "A good steward of the land!?!?!?!?!"
  • Has Bush mentioned Poland once yet? If not, Kerry should say in his closing that Bush forgot Poland.
  • Oh dear, the environment is about to do to Bush what he is trying to do to it. "I'm a good steward of the land" I think I just burst a blood vessel...
  • "fewer water complaints!?!?!" What is a "water complaint!?" Ordered Evian and got tap?
  • this is the red sox's year.
  • My god, can someone get me arsenic at wholesale prices?
  • The one area where I really like Kerry is his stance on the environment.
  • would the kyoto treaty have cost the U.S. a lot of jobs?
  • Man, I'd like to get into Jenna Bush's federally protected wetlands. /The Onion
  • No, that's not what he's refering to. Kerry said he wouldn't join the Kyoto treaty.
  • "the use of technologies?!" Is this a 2nd grade book report?
  • kerry is freaking killing him.
  • No, Kyoto would have cost a lot of money. Not necessarily a lot of jobs.
  • the_bone: "My god, can someone get me arsenic at wholesale prices?" Canada could probably help.
  • Ah, but if it were rich people paying the money, then, ipso facto, it would have cost poor people their jobs.
  • Presidential candidates Michael Badnarik (Libertarian) and David Cobb (Green Party) were just arrested.
  • That's right. I guess they wouldn't be as trickled down upon.
  • "A catastrophic plan for offensive medicine" And colon gas?
  • "Let me incent you." I hate that.
  • bibliochick is teh funny.
  • I wouldn't trust all those Canadaian arsenics that you hear about on the internets. They'll probably cure you, not kill you.
  • can we get a brutal LAPD beating for Ralph Nader please while we're at it?
  • the_bone: bibliochick has been taking a drink every time bush says, "I...uh..."
  • the_bone: bibliochick has been taking a drink every time bush says, "I...uh..."
  • huh huh. He said "wood."
  • I'm on TV? That's news to me? Pants? Well, whadya know.
  • "They just are." That's the most compelling argument I've heard in a long time. /lie
  • I could actually get my arsenic from my drinking water, now that I think about it. Thanks, Good Steward Of The Land!
  • MonkeyFilter: Need some wood?
  • Bush doesn't think our rights are being watered down. Well, as long as he doesn't think so, and he hopes we don't think so, that's cool.
  • I don't know, does it vibrate?
  • "I don't think your rights are being watered down." "I hope you don't think that." Idiot.
  • bibliochick has been taking a drink every time bush says, "I...uh..." Jesus Christ, are you in a brewery? Does that much booze even exist?
  • Damn it, Sandspider, do you have a time machine?
  • he said 'doody'
  • is it just me or is this a route?
  • Thank God for Dick Derbin.
  • sorry, idest. I fast-forwarded my tivo a bit.
  • he said 'doody'
  • Cheater!
  • If I had a time machine I'd go back to 1982. Right now I'd be sitting in a hot tub with my soulmate. /napoleon dynamite
  • "Ninety-nine senators voted for the patriot act" Yay for Jim McDermott!
  • ooops
  • It's true, idest. I'll move it back a bit.
  • I need one of those timetravel tivo thingies
  • Russ Feingold, you mean.
  • Yeah, the Michael J. Fox thing! Even goddamned Alex P. Keaton wants Bush gone!
  • See, I told you Kerry was going to use Superman!
  • You know whats wrong with Michael J Fox- he's one of those poisoned imported Canadian actors!
  • man, kerry shoulda said the prez does NOT want chris reeve to walk again. missed opportunity
  • wait, that is what he's saying!
  • Oh. Jim McDermott is a representative. Never mind.
  • Dude, the woman behind Bush is infuriated at his stem-cell answer!
  • banana for drjimmy11
  • The stem cells will show us the cures?
  • Dude, I say "dude" a lot!
  • bush is talking about the importance of ethics! pure comedy gold!
  • Bush should just yell 'San Dimas High School football rules!" and get off.
  • Bush...talking...ethics. Must...control...snark.
  • Dude, there's nothing wrong with saying dude.
  • Flusterized!
  • is he for breast cancer? </head of state >
  • walking a waffle line! Who here wants pancakes?
  • Bush is getting impatient.
  • I made the decision to destroy more life.
  • He talks about destroying life, yet he sent O(1000) troops to die in Iraq.
  • I do love a good waffle.
  • OOOH! Refernce to fact he was appointed by supreme court! Not smart!
  • I'm not tellin'!
  • Thank God. "Dude" constitutes 45% of my vocabulary (the rest consists of "rad" and various profanities).
  • I think he'd pick his nose.
  • The Dredd Scott Case? Come on, that's high-school stuff.
  • the constitution doesn't speak to the equality of america?
  • He compared "Under God" to Dred Scott? And didn't the Constitution actually consider slaves as property?
  • Why are people not named Dredd anymore? /changes name to Dredd
  • I think he'd pick his nose.
  • Is it just me, or is Bush talking slower and slower?
  • i think it does, the_bone
  • this supreme court question is working out great for kerry
  • Hey Kerry's talking about wimmin stuff! Thanks mate!
  • You go, Kerry! Impartial justice!
  • But... but... that would mean that Bush is talking out of his ass! I can't handle the change in perception!
  • Eek. The abortion question.
  • altar boy!
  • tiny blonde closing round woman comes out with the abortion thing! GWB does happy dance!
  • Yay - atheists get a nod!
  • Altar boy? With that kind of trauma, is he emotionally stable enough to be president?
  • I can't legislate an article of faith for someone who doesn't share it." YES!
  • the cokehead and the altar boy. that's going to be the title of my book about this election.
  • Yeah, having that as a closing round question is lame. Thanks, Lehrer!
  • I want Kerry to say, "Abortion isn't murder, it's a pre-emptive strike."
  • Decipher? What the hell is he talking about?
  • "reasonable people can agree on how to reduce abortions in america." what does that MEAN?
  • Can they stop cutting to the doe-eyed pro-lifer?
  • So why can't pregnant women drive in the carpool lane, HUH, smarty-pants??
  • hee hee... I'l buy an advance copy, HawthorneWindo
  • A fetus is not a child.
  • "...because the president is simple."
  • poidog: awesome
  • I'm not clear - can you, in fact, run and not hide? Can you hide, and still run? Oh dear.
  • Yes or no. Black or white. Good or evil. Because that's all Bush can seem to understand.
  • "You can run but you can't hide." Again?
  • Amen Sandspider
  • "Mr Burns your campaign has the momentum of a runaway freight train. Why are you so popular?"
  • hawthorne: seen the cover of the new yorker this week? (upper right of layout until, um, friday)
  • oh, man, this "tell us about your mistakes question" is brilliant.
  • He's had a year or two to come up with an answer to this "what mistakes have you made" question.
  • Wait. Bush is human?
  • This abortion thing made me realize something: your carry-on bags are x-rayed, but your uterus is not x-rayed! Does that make you safer, America?
  • NOT ANSWERING THE FUCKING QUESTION!!!!!!!
  • I think he removed more than just one person in Iraq.
  • the report today backs up the way we went into iraq??????????????????????????????????
  • Why is Iraq the "big question?" Why is it moreso than Afghanistan or al Qaeda? It shows where Bush's priorities lie.
  • Wow, did you see the look on the pro-lifer's face just now??
  • Bush...talking...responsibility. Must....control...snark.
  • He seems to care a lot about hurting peoples feelings.
  • "look into your guts??" Ewwww.
  • Bush is human, but his brain was replaced with the processor from an Atari 2600.
  • Did he just *not* answer that "what are your mistakes" questions?
  • gut-check time: this is going to be what the dem's call the election from here on out. should be, anyway.
  • MonkeyFilter: Gut check time!
  • It's a 100 page report. Of course it backed up Bush. What, are you going to read it?
  • Oh man... this is a great closing question... Kerry only has to discuss Bush's mistakes, none of his own.
  • Hlewagast, I missed it. Elucidate?
  • I once made a mix tape.
  • Maybe Bush could benefit from some stem cell research on neural replacement. You know, from the coke.
  • I think Kerry's hair is one solid piece.
  • Stand still, Kerry, so we can watch Bush blink in the slit screen. But keep putting your left hand over his face. I like that part. Oh, and maybe a little less "kill the terrorists" stuff, okay?
  • Yes, it was a great final question; made up for that abortion of a penultimate question (pun certainly intended).
  • um, slit screen?
  • "We've been through a lot together as a country. But I've met someone new."
  • Incredulous half eye-roll, half smile. On the "don't want to hurt their feelings line." crap, wish i'd taped it now.
  • So that individuals can perform their own health care? What does he think this is, Canada?
  • "we will not rest- didn't gw bush take the most vacation time of all presidents?
  • sorry, but bush got his ass kicked.
  • everyone in the audience looks like they want to throttle Bush. Or are they just bored stiff?
  • Nexus? Are you sure that word means what you think it does?
  • The great nexus?
  • Well, that was fun.
  • I think he used the term "haters" to try to get a sliver of the youth vote.
  • "we've been thru a lot together. war. recession. corporate scandal." this should be used in a kerry ad, after a voiceover asking, "so what has the president's administration brought to america?" right into, "war. recession. etc."
  • I love the woman in grey behind bush who has been slumped sideways and scowling all night. I don;t know where ahe ate dinner, but I hope she never goes back. Ha! September 11th! Hayters! Freedom, freedom, freedom! Are you inspired, monkeys?
  • No he didn't. Bush totally kicked ass.
  • Seriously, KICKED!
  • And the nation erupts!
  • to the world: hate the game, not the playa.
  • Those haters are all up in my shit. As President, I will bust a cap in they ass, fo shizzle.
  • bush got slaughtered. whoopeee!
  • come one fuyu. You got to be just on this side of Karel Rove to belive that. Or is this one of your famous "ironic asides" that I have heard so much of.
  • Behind-Bush lady ran down to greet him.
  • Fuck, David Brooks is already sucking Bush off.
  • Fuyu"ironic mother fucker" gare.
  • Must thank the Gallup people for including the token non-white question asker.
  • She did? I thought she was all pissed when he spoke.
  • now i'm going to print out this thread. oh, crap, jennings is giving bush points just because he seemed "more comfortable" than in the first debate.
  • Kerry should cut his hair shorter.
  • CNN: "John kerry will be seen as the winner of this debate."
  • Yeah, bring it back to the facial ticks.
  • God damn Kerry kicked fucking ass.
  • pat buchanan: "I think the president wiped the floor with John Kerry."
  • Blissful sleep for Squidranch this lovely fall evening.
  • Pat Buchanan believes in the tooth fairy, too.
  • fucking moron chris matthews is saying the president's message -- focus on taxes -- was stronger, which makes him the winner.
  • I [heart] fuyugare, even while disagreeing with him on the issue of who won. I think it was a draw: Kerry won on substance, but Bush surpassed the low expectations engendered by the last bloodbath.
  • That's right David. He does have trouble with facts. And truth, and pronunciation, and blinking...
  • Bush's simplicity read as stupidity. Kerry's complexity read as inteligence.
  • I was one of the first 9000 to vote on MSNBC.com's online poll when it was 69% to 31% Kerry over Bush. Now, with 63,000 votes, it's 79% Kerry to 21% Bush. The freepers are even losing the poll-gaming by a large margin.
  • Oh, wait. We're all watching different commentary now. Revoke last comment.
  • Was Bush's crappy performance in the first debate a deception to get the media (once again) to rule the debate a Bush win if he doesn't drool on himself?
  • CNN is at 92% Kerry, 7% Bush.
  • I'm pretty sure there was drool. Or was that spittle?
  • when Bush performs passably against low expectations, it will be reported as a Bush win, even though clearly he still was not in command of the facts. Essentially we're grading him on his body language. Cuz we're monkeys.
  • Many Americans might confuse Bush's anger with inner strength. Just sayin'.
  • I know its been like 12+ years now, but is it not incredibly ridiculous that there is a man named "Wolf Blitzer??"
  • Is CNN's poll broken? I'm seeing 0% for each option.
  • me too on the CNN poll.
  • MSNBC and Fox News have Kerry as the winner in their online polls, with Kerry getting 78 and 70% of the vote respectively.
  • Even FoxNews has 70% Kerry 30% Bush. The GOP spinners can't stay on their feet. And those who confuse Bush's anger for any human quality are beyond reaching. Now we'll see how many of them there are.
  • I loved it when Bush joked "need some wood?"
  • now it works - 83% Kerry! Different from the "even" they see on CNN Tv...
  • Hlewagast. They are probably resetting the results. They did that for the last debate. Don't know why exactly. Maybe they realized they were getting gamed?
  • I have been so surprised to hear actual debates at both meetings, instead of taking turns at turning out scripted sound bites. No clear winner tonight in the sense of anyone landing a knockout blow. But in a race this tight, with everything depending on how the hand--OH FUCK A HUGE SPIDER JUST CAME OUT FROM UNDER THE COUCH GOD DAMN!
  • I have been so surprised to hear actual debates at both meetings, instead of taking turns at turning out scripted sound bites. No clear winner tonight in the sense of anyone landing a knockout blow. But in a race this tight, with everything depending on how the hand--OH FUCK A HUGE SPIDER JUST CAME OUT FROM UNDER THE COUCH GOD DAMN!
  • you're right, it's back now. (and being gamed again)
  • I hate to say this, but are these polls being scammed?! 70% for Kerry on fox??? Are these things vulenarable to robots that would vote millions of times, or simply one person pushing the button over and over again? I want it to be true, but hard to believe!
  • CNN showing 91% Kerry? Can that possibly be right?
  • Bill Moyers has Nader, Cobb, Badnarik and Peroutka on.
  • The polls are being gamed. Freepers have been doing it for years, and libs have finally caught on.
  • I have seen many polls that only take 1 vote from each IP. Not exactly hard to code I dont think. Why dont they do that?
  • drjimmy: IP addresses are pooled by isp's like aol and behind a firewall or proxy or router all computers would appear as the same ip
  • Most of the polls can be defeated by clearing your cache and deleting cookies I believe. The IP addy idea sounds good, but I don't know enough about all that to know how feasible it is.
  • hmm. maybe I was thinking of sites that require a login and limit it to 1 vote per user that way.
  • Eugene, Oregon, yesterday. Bush/Cheney backer: "Four more years!" Theresa Heinz Kerry: "Four more weeks."
  • ip + cookie authentication works until the cookies in the browser get cleared - I know of no way for anonymous AND accurate internet voting
  • ADQ: Nice, I hadn't heard that! Thanks for linking that. [/living Quaker, albeit a half-assed one]
  • I can't vote more than once at MSNBC for anything (even a poll attached to an article I wrote), unless I change browsers. (Then I get one vote from IE and one from Firefox) I'm sure there are ways to dump the cookies that aren't too difficult, but at least it'll slow down the poll-gaming. Of course, if it is poll-gaming, this could be the beginning of Karl Rove's worst nightmare... being beaten at his own game.
  • Quaker - THK's visit dominated the small local news market yesterday. The heckler claims "severe head trauma and contusions". Bullshit! This was caught on video on at least one Eugene TV station. Looked like sort of a soft bonk.
  • I found Bush to be a tad on the obdurate side.
  • And from where I'm sitting, the Fox News poll is frozen at 14,000 votes. That'll teach 'em to trust their website to Diebold.
  • polls
  • Poll gaming is done through a script that makes an http connection to a known url, casts a vote, accepts the cookie, then dumps the cookie and votes again. Oh wait - I'm just saying - I wouldn't know - just speculation . . .
  • MonkeyFilter:Cuz we're monkeys.
  • No, I am serious that Bush won, and here's why. 1. He didn't collapse into a pile of mush. 2. In fact, he pre-emptively attacked the moderator. Americans love that. 3. Bush has to win #2 for the media to sell a high-tension end-game for #3.
  • "I want Kerry to say, "Abortion isn't murder, it's a pre-emptive strike." That's nasty, bibliochick. And terrifically funny. The polls being reported seem accurate to me: Bush had his ass handed to him in an even more pronounced fashion tonight. Thanks for that link, A dead Quaker. Brilliant.
  • Watch out for those high tension number three's - I mean the third rail . . . all that spittle . . . could hurt
  • FoxNews is finally counting votes; still 70-30 after 65K.
  • Reasons why Kerry lost: 1. For the 'look into the camera and comfort me, you big daddy' question, he did not clearly. repeat. the. comforting. statement. 2. To the idle ear it sounded like he was going to raise taxes, but it will be a 'smaller overall when you take yer kids and health into account, etc.' deal. 3. He scored at-most two runs on the jobs issue, when he could have easily have hit multiple sixers. 4. He was nearly bowled out on the abortion issue. (What a terrible question!)
  • "The heckler claims "severe head trauma and contusions" I think all Bush supporters suffer from severe head trauma, steveno. fuyugare -- you're desperately reaching.
  • I thought Kerry missed a lot of opportunities, and kept attacking Bush before he got to his points, diffusing the effect of anything he had to say. There were also too many reference to 'plans' without explaining what these 'plans' consist of. Bush opened very well. Both candidates, but especially Kerry talked about things that a lot of the audience are not going to have any background on, and hence they are not going to understand. They didn't answer most of the questions. There was hardly any mention of education and innovation. Do Americans really care that much about Iraq?
  • Really? Reaching? Can you summarize Kerry's answer to the manufacturing jobs question? He said a lot of words, but nothing of substance. (Don't bother comparing with Bush; I am dead tired of listening to Kerry respond to every question with 'but Bush is soooo much worse'.)
  • From what I saw of it, it was pretty even, though Kerry had a slight edge: it seemed like an intense argument and Kerry's cool looked better ("more presidential") than Bush's more agitated manner. But Bush wasn't obnoxious and I am one of those people who can't stand to listen to him talk. On the other hand Kerry's a much better debater than Gore, and about as good as I can imagine without having a whole other level to their game the way Clinton and Reagan did. I can see why he's the Democratic nominee. (I've never heard a substantive policy answer in a presidential debate and wasn't expecting to this time either.)
  • niccolo - I agree with the references to plans - I am old enough to remember Nixon had a "secret plan" to end the Vietnam War in 1968. As for Iraq: yes, Americans do care.
  • fuyugare, I think you are right that Kerry didn't say much of substance, but I do think he gave a brilliant answer to the abortion question. Kerry was mediocre, but Bush had moments of stupidity which made him keep losing the points he was making. I wonder what Bush was thinking when Kerry was criticizing of all the death and destruction he has caused? steveno, it's surprising, to me, that the campaign for leadership in one nation can be focused so intently on another country. But yes, it is a big responsibility and I am glad they are so interested.
  • Was it really a brilliant answer? Bush was able to recast it as simply as 'Kerry cast a vote against banning partial-birth abortions'. This resonates with all the right people. Abortion is not idly called a wedge issue. The so-called 'pro-lifers' were not won over by Kerry's argument at all. There is no good answer to the abortion question, far less a brilliant answer.
  • No, fuyugare, I cannot summarize Kerry's response to that question. When I say you're reaching, I refer to the fact that you state that Bush won, 'totally kicking ass'. Even if I didn't oppose Bush on almost everything he has done/not done/aspires to, I'd never state that he kicked ass in this debate. Face it, he does not have the skills to debate very well, no matter what you think of his politics. He's clearly uncomfortable speaking in public even when he's just reciting a speech: he's an utter failure when being faced, live, with people questioning his words and authority. He doesn't have any wit whatsoever beyond the folksy act, and anyone with the sense that Allah gave a turnip sees right through his badly-performed act. His body language hurts him immeasurably, too: he looks alternately like a liar and a coward, unsure of himself, and when you compound this with his inarticulateness, he appears to be about 1/3 of the man Kerry is (and I'm no Kerry supporter). Aside from that, he's also obviously lying when he presents his cases for argument. His commentary on enviromentalism is laughably stupid, and everything he says about Iraq is either a new twist on an old lie, or a new lie altogether. The economy? His administration has done more damage to it than any other in recent history, and his comments regarding Canadian pharmaceuticals were beyond stupid. Defend him all you like, but I sense partisan nonsense trolling in your posts.
  • I'm pretty sure thate are posts all over MoFi where fuyugare is mocking Bush.
  • However, re the 'plan' thing: Did Bush ever say a damn thing about what he plans to do in the next four years? Everything I saw was about what he'd done or proposed in Congress. 'Plan' is, I agree, awful vague - my POV is that government policy is obscure and a snooze and that's why it doesn't ever show up in debate-sized chunks - but a guy's interviewing for a four-year extension, you'd think he'd have some idea of what he'd do with that.
  • Sadly, you can't comment on one candidates performance in this debate without comparing him to the other. Neither gave answers of true substance, nor were they partcularly called upon to do so. The whole point of this particular shadow play is to see which guy had better posture, a deeper voice (but not too deep!), struggled less for words, chopped authoritatively with his hand, and kept his face from flushing a 'non-presidential' shade of purple. If you find all this not to your liking, if you think that the candidate you vote for should actually communicate a well-thought out position you believe in, well, you're S.O.L. Now I'm depressed.
  • I sense partisan nonsense trolling in your posts. And I sense that there is no conceivable scenario where Bush can hold sway, as far as you are concerned. However, my sensing apparatus, being so imbibed with partisanship, and so unlike yours, isn't infallible.
  • There are also posts all over MoFi where I mispelled things out of fatigue. Going to bed now... nighty-night!
  • 416 comments? Is this place becoming Fark? MonkeyFark: It's not news, It's...Aww, nevermind
  • I have no desire to see Kerry elected, but I do have a desire to see Bush defeated (and impeached, imprisoned/executed). So, I'm not impartial, but my points about Bush's lack of debating and communication skills stands, as do my comments on his stated 'facts' and arguments. Remember, you responded to my comment that you were reaching. You were, and still are, if you claim that Bush won this debate.
  • Fine. Bush lost this debate and won this debate. Both conjuncts are equally meaningful, or meaningless if you prefer. Please feel free to enjoy the fleeting triumph of outing a partisan hack. Congratulations.
  • *looks around, scratching head* OOhhhhhh, I get it. Cuz we're monkeys. YaY!
  • Keep that little dream alive, fuyugare. You only have four more weeks of it unless the Bush regime decides to steal another election.
  • my first tagline! *blushes, eats grubs*
  • I wonder how many people in the audience understood Kerry's reference to Orwell.... (obligatory link to debate transcipt)
  • Monkeyfilter: We got wood for your internets.
  • heh. 'needsomewood.com' redirects to 'yourpoliticalmessagehere.com'. That was quick.
  • This as well.
  • HOLY SHIT! 427 comments in 5+ hours... You sick fucks!
  • Token Meme: I wonder how many people in the audience understood Kerry's reference to Orwell I wonder how many people understood Bush's reference to "The Pet Goat".
  • Is that the one that begins "A girl got a pet goat"? I really hope that the shrub wins this election. *ducks to evade flung poo*.... The Republican party is in dire need of the mother of all catastrophes in order to get back to their libertarian roots, and 4 more years is just the tonic!
  • Your all full of obdurate stupidity and primitive gullibility! You human beings never ceases to astound me. Actually, that's untrue. I ceased to be astounded by you years ago! /slight liberties
  • What needs to be talked about s Kerry's ten year plan to get us off fossil fuels. Now that is exciting shit!
  • I can't help but notice that tonight Monkeyfilter has over 2000 members, and has more posts in this thread than the equivalent thread at Metafilter. I am but one person who would like to extend a welcoming gesture toward our nascent Monkeyfilter lords who lord over other lords.
  • Thanks guys. I got a good-night's sleep last night, and this morning, I find I missed nothing, because of your diligence.
  • Missed the spectacle due to being over on the other side of the pond and, you know, asleep, but reading this is somehow better. Bananas for everyone.
  • Weird. Most of the papers and major news sources are calling it a "tie". That's certainly not what I saw last night. I'm guessing we won't see the true results for a couple of days while the electorate soaks this in.
  • That answer almost made me want to scowl -- Bush Impressive way to take stance Mr. President! In fact, it almost makes me want to think about maybe voting for you, kinda sorta.
  • The so-called 'pro-lifers' were not won over by Kerry's argument at all Wait a second. Does Kerry's camp harbor any illusion of winning over pro-life votes? I didn't know that.
  • I don't think he's trying to grab any pro-life votes; the folks for whom abortion is the big litmus test are all voting for Bush anyway. It seemed to me that he was trying to reassure people that he wasn't going to legislate religion, and showing people that he believed it to be a complex and multifaceted issue. Not sure if that last point was a mistake or not; I thought it was a good answer, but for people who are pro-life it is a very simple issue.
  • Holy fuck, people.
  • Care to elaborate?
  • MCT's just mad 'cause I have more comments then him now. Pwned!!!
  • I think MCT was talking about the Holy Fuck-People of ancient Egypt. That comma is a typo.
  • Yes, they of the flying dachsund worship. No, sorry, the "Holy Fuck" was from being offline during the debates (debate party, much beer and outrage), then going home, going to sleep, waking up and seeing 500+ comments in one damn night on the board, which has to be a site record. And Kerry won. Again. Nyah.
  • Make that 400+ MCT.
  • And yes, Kerry won. Hands down.
  • So see everyone Wednesday, then? :-)
  • Oh yeah, and, Kerry won.
  • Oops, pwned indeed. But that's still over 40% of a Daisy-May thread.
  • Daisy_May thread? What's that? Ne'er heard of it.
  • Can someone please explain to me what Bush was referring to with the "babbling green eyeshades"? I really thought he lost his mind and this was just proof.
  • I think it 'batting eyelashes', horriblificly deliverated. I realise that 'batting eyelashes' makes no sense in that sentence, either.
  • it → it was
  • Or perhaps it refers to this.
  • BUSH: And of course he's going to raise your taxes. You see, he's proposed $2.2 trillion of new spending. And you say: Well, how are you going to pay for it? He says, well, he's going to raise the taxes on the rich -- that's what he said -- the top two brackets. That raises, he says $800 billion; we say $600 billion. We've got battling green eye shades. Somewhere in between those numbers -- and so there's a difference, what he's promised and what he can raise. It seems to me that the "battling green eyeshades" refers to the difference in perception between Bush and Kerry as to much "green" can be raised by "raising the taxes on the rich" (or "rolling back the tax cuts," if you prefer). An interesting image, but any metaphor which requires this much explaining is inherently sucky.
  • Who is this "daisy_may" person? Does she spread rumors on the Internets?
  • Has anyone seen the latest on the CNN poll? Looks like someone finally figured out how to skew the damn thing. It was around 70-80% in Kerry's favor this morning.
  • WHAT!?!?!?!?! Seriously, how could anyone, even a Bush supporter think that he won? The mind reels.
  • As told to me, "green eyeshades" refers to accountants (because they're stereotyped as wearing those green plastic visors), so Bush was saying that his accountants and Kerry's accountants disagree. Of course, the only people who would have gotten the joke are rich enough to need accountants...
  • In the CNN poll, Bush now is up to 65. I saw Kerry at 82 last night. Same poll. They might want to just stop doing those polls altogether.
  • I think dirigibleman nailed it. And as a Green who is nonetheless planning on voting for Kerry, I'm thinking about voting for Cobb or Nader (again) instead if shit like that described in homunculus's link continues.
  • Yeah, Nader pretty much kicked ass in that debate. Another four years of Bush won't change anything.
  • Yeah, if Nader's so great how come he doesn't show up to the debate? Pussy.
  • Still, Senior Danger, you avoid my obvious point, that if Bush wins, there will be hell to pay regarding the coming appointments to the Supremes. I for one like and support Ralph, but the looming court appointments more than anything else make me support a Kerry presidency.
  • I'm thinking about voting for Cobb or Nader (again) instead if shit like that described in homunculus's link continues. I was undecided whether to vote for Kerry or a third party candidate before, though I was leaning strongly towards Kerry, but now I'm definitely voting for Cobb.
  • Look, squid, if you believe in Kerry, for whatever reason, than you should vote for him. I respect that. But let's not forget for a second that this two party farce we sniggeringly refer to as a democratic system is rotten to its core. And those of us who are voting for Kerry NOT because we believe in him, but because we fear the mush-mouthed born-again will get another four year reign of (bi-partisan supported) terror, should make a promise to ourselves that no matter who wins we will direct our efforts to moving this country toward a system of proportional representation so that at the very least our children will not have to face such a deplorable "choice" between two pro-war candidates who both worked to instate one of the most anti-american pieces of legislation this country has seen in generations. / soapbox
  • "Green eye-shades is a really out of date way to refer to bean counters. The eye shades, 100 or so years ago, were used to protect eyes from glare. They also wore garters or paper cuffs on their arms to keep the shirt from dipping in ink.
  • Right Mr. Peligro. Got you on the soap box rant. But once again you avoid the argument that the makeup of the supreme court will be decided by whomever is the next president, be it the evil republican overlords, or the evil democratic overlords. The evil democratic overlords will install kinder, fuzzier justices. Like it or not, that is the situation. And those who make a protest vote for Nader do so at the risk of setting the nation back 50 years if it becomes an all conservative court. As I said, I dig Ralph and what he stands for, but the supreme court is the joker in the deck and whomever is elected now will draw that wild card and if the president is Bush, he will fuck us over for 25-50 years. Remember Florida 2000? Expect that sort of shit for the rest of your life.
  • Yeah, you've got a point. I wasn't actually avoiding the argument so much as talking about something else, but if you want me to say that you're right, you got it. Now, since I suspect that you fall into the category of those who hate Bush more than they like Kerry, what do you think about my penance idea? If you vote for Kerry today, will you work to promote a more representative party system tomorrow?
  • Holy fuck! 473 comments!
  • Nick, you got my pennance vote. *raises tentacle* I will support a green/left/liberal/progressive candidate AFTER we get Bush out of office. You have my word on it.
  • Hey! Alright! Me too!
  • Now, how do we get all those angry Nader protest voters to see that the supreme court is the is the reason they need to swallow their convictions and win to this election for the "lesser of two evils?" We are so fucked if Bush gets to appoint the next couple of justices.
  • squidranch: As a former angry Nader protest voter (and current angry lefty voter, in Broward County FL), here's your answer: Run palatble candidates. Throw us some bones on the platform. Build a coalition based on respect for our positions instead of patronizing and fear. Quit treating us like the girl you like to screw but won't take out to dinner. I'm not accusing you of this, squid... certainly, your "penance vote pledge" is more gracious than anything I've seen from most Democrats, and I totally understand your concern (and I share it to a huge extent, hence my probable vote for Kerry). But for the past four years Greens have been demonized. It seems easier to do that than to reach out to nonvoters, or to go after the thousands and thousands of registered Dems who voted for Bush. But it won't win any friends from the left.
  • Oh, and in case it wasn't clear: I [heart] squidranch.
  • Monsieur Bone, I am with you. And thanks for the props. Ditto. But it is a decision that we need to make. You and other liberal voters need to do the same smell test. Will Kerry do better in the supreme court choice or will Bush? The choice, my progressive friends, is yours.
  • Hear hear! And this is why I think Nader should be on all the ballots, so that we are actually trusted to make that choice. Every voter should be able to weigh the pro's and cons of voting for a particular candidate and it upsets me that people think it right to deny the public this choice. This issue extends well beyond this election, of course, and this why I'm happy to see people make a commitment to continue promoting 3rd party/proportional representation no matter who they vote for this time. It's better than voting for Nader.
  • Since I'm not about to self-link for an fpp, in looking for the exact source of Dubya's statement, "the truth of the matter is if you listen carefully Saddam would still be in power if he were president of the United States and the world would be a lot better off" I found some discrepancies in the transcripts in how that line was represented. whee! So read my bjournal...
  • ----------------------------------- OK, time to get this thread off the cinder-blocks and re-crank its engine. I hope none of you will make yet another front-page post about the presidential debates. Show some restraint please. For reference, CSPAN-1 and CSPAN-2 carry live feeds in Realaudio format. I have found that CSPAN-2 is somewhat less congested.
  • Err, make that CSPAN-2
  • I'm just hoping that in the middle of a well-rehearsed and mellifluous response to a tough question about energy policy, GW will let rip with the nastiest, greasiest fart ever heard on television. As he stammers on, the fart will turn to something much worse, as the lights go yellow and then flashing red. He will then have to be excused to change his pants, while the nation and his opponent wait in stunned silence. When he returns, he will gamely try to finish the debate, but the election will be effectively over. Winner: John Kerry, the Non-Farting Choice. It's beautiful in my world...
  • Wow. Just... wow. I've had a lot of fantasies about a Bush defeat, but that's just... wow.
  • I have rehearsal, so I won't be joining y'all tonight. This thread is already huge, and for those monkeys on dial-up (such as myself) it will be an unwieldy pain-in-the-ass to use this thread tonight as well. Please consider starting a new thread (if tracicle doesn't mind). Just sayin'. Have fun tonight... and if someone could kindly post a link to a transcript at the end of the evening I'd appreciate it.
  • Yeah... I wondered about load time. But I'm too scared to another front page post for at least 3 months.
  • post another... *sigh*
  • The best part about my Bush-defeat fantasy would be the commentators having to talk about it afterwards. And the spin would be hee-larious.
  • Damn you, TenaciousPettle... now I'm imagining the coverage. "Just before the incident President Bush was making an explosive and forceful point about..."
  • You want Bush to lose because of a scatalogical technicality? Why? I'd rather see him methodically hang himself.
  • I'm for having either a new thread or on here, since I have a fast connection. I kind of like the idea of stretching this out to a 2000 comment post or somesuch, but I am also of the opinion that a concise front page post is not going to really hurt anything. I'm not sure why it bothers people so, but maybe that's because my primary interface to the front page is via RSS.
  • It's too late. Mr. Farm Of Cephalopods has already taken the unilateral step to pre-emptively create a new thread. He didn't let the old thread participants to finish their task; he just sort of arbitrarily said that the time for old threads is over, we're going with a new one. I've consistently had one opinion on these threads—that we needed to have a discussion of these debates; that there was a right way, and a wrong way to go about it; and Mr. Squidranch chose the wrong way.
  • Mr. Squidranch can run, but he can not hide.
  • He can swim. And squirt ink. And try to hide in the squirted ink. But he won't. No sir.
  • I'm for whatever tracicle prefers.
  • Suck-up. That being said, I agree with you. Heh.
  • Whoops. Sorry all. Didn't know there was a group decision about this. I thought that it would be smart to keep them all separate. I've been totally imersed in work, so I wasn't hep to you all's feelings Do you want me stewed in my own ink, fried or served up in a marinara sauce?
  • Fuyagare, you seem to have a pretty strong opinion about this. Chill.
  • Hey, I just couldn't let that chance to lampoon the silly debate answers go by. Sorry. It's a failing. Save some of that marinara sauce.
  • I want...pizza.
  • I want pizza too.
  • All I want to say is that we coulda had a 1000-pointer here today, but no, we had to get two 500-pointers. Well, that's the price of quantify over quality.
  • Quantity, that is. Jesus H tapdancing Christ on a bright purple pogo stick, what's wrong with my speling?!