September 22, 2004

• Canada or Norway. They have been fighting for the top position on the UN list of good places to live. Neither is a Utopia, however.
• You're more than welcome up here in Canada, Roly! It ain't exactly utopia but we like it and there's plenty of room. We had quite an influx of young Americans during the Vietnam era and most of them turned out to be just like us (funny how that works). It gets a little chilly in the winter but you can always wear a toque, eh?
• Ah crap. Competition already? I was gonna post to Craigslist Vancouver if it came down to it.
  You can go take a test on their website (Canada's, not craigslist's) to see if you qualify for citizenship. I failed. But not by much. It seemed like if I could find a job up there first, it wasn't that hard. But then there is the whole finding a job up there part to deal with...
  A good friend of mine has been having a ridiculously good time in Taiwan for the past 2.5 years. He isn't even coming home for Christmas this year. He flew over there with some money and found a job while over there teaching english (read: reading to grade-school age kids.) He worked off and on for a while, maybe wheezed off girlfriends for a bit (us americans are like celebrities to them apparently. Every time I talk to him, he has a new girlfriend) He's now working steadily and showing no signs of wanting to ever come back.
• I left the US not long after G.W.Bush came to power. While that was not direct reason I left, as time went on, I became convinced that it was a good thing I left when I did. I plan on moving back to the States in a few months to return to school. If Bush is re-elected, then I will have lost all faith in Americans and will definately be looking to move elsewhere. My first choice would be Canada. From what I hear, its kind of like the US, but with common sense. On preview: Taiwan is not a good option if you are raising a young child.
• I visited Vancouver a little while ago and it was absolutely gorgeous, one of the most beautiful and cosmopolitan cities I've ever seen. I'd love to live there, but I am frightened by the cold. Did I mention that the weed there is also super strong?
• Vancouver is one of the warmest places in Canada you could be. Very mild winters. I moved because my husband is Canadian. I'm glad to be here. Things just seem more.... sensible. Hardly Utopia, but as good as you can get in the world, I think. I'd advocate it to anyone looking to emigrate.
• In Canada, we worry about the trend of our brightest to go live in the USA. It's called the Brain Drain. So is the USA experiencing a Heart Drain? I don't know any American who's moved just because of the Republicans. But I do know at least four or five for whom that was a definite incentive.
• Melinika: Douglas Coupland notes that Seattle residents are very conscious of being the closest contiguous state to Alaska. They emphasize the wetness, the storms, etc. Whereas Vancouverites perceive themselves to be in the warmest place in Canada. All those outdoor heaters -- they're to allow us to dine on the patio, dressed like Californians, until mid-November.
• New Zealand, I think, is tricky to get into unless you have work secured beforehand, but if you have a useful degree and a chunk of cash on hand, it's doable. We hear a lot about degreed immigrants driving taxis and the like, but from what I understand it's partly a language barrier. However, the health system is a bit dodgy unless you have an accident, in which case ACC (Accident Compensation Corp.) fund medical treatment. Most surgeries are waitlist-only unless you have insurance. On the other hand, it's a great place to raise kids and the government, while overly protective of its citizens, is relatively left-wing at present - enough for the PM to openly criticise Bush's war tactics. Tax is reasonable, house prices are high but interest rates relatively low, although rates are increasing at the moment. We drive on the left, bike helmets are compulsory, smoking is about to be banned in bars, the communists are overrunning my town at the moment, and the summers here, even in the South Island, aren't too bad. But you have to like frosty mornings.
• I know a few Americans who are toying with the idea of moving to Canada. Vancouver cold? More like wet. I agree verbose; and we do like to rub it in when everyone else in the rest of the country is feeling the -20 below weather and we are doning light winter jackets and avoiding having our eyes poked out from umbrellas ...
• I think y'all's travel plans may be a bit premature. We've seen from past elections that Kerry tends to do well in the home stretch. The polls showing GWB with a big lead may be overpolling Republicans. Don't count Kerry out just yet.
• Leaving so soon after a Bush re-election strikes me as very similar to being bullied out of your own country. The threat is obvious, but the whether it carries any weight is still to be determined. America is still in transition. If Bush gets re-elected, the next term does look outstandingly bad, but that might well be the straw that breaks the camel's back. Moderate Republicans might lose faith as widespread, fervent opposition develops across classes. The Republican agenda might well be overwhelmingly rejected as its truths become obvious, leading to a crushing GOP defeat in 2008. Things definitely look bad. Prudent people will likely plan ahead for an exit if things are as horrible as they look to be after a 2008 GOP win. But there is still time for America to be the country it once was. The next four years certainly look like a turning point, one way or another. It seems too early to cut and run.
• I immigrated a year ago to Canada (Montreal) from the Netherlands. And although it was hard to get my visa, I don't regret it.
• we tried to do a story about this after the first bush victory. there were several celebs that said they'd leave, but didn't. i think this might be something that people say just to try to get across how strongly they feel about bush. that said, if anyone REALLY IS GOING TO LEAVE, please contact me and we'll do a story! anyhow, my 2 cents: i think bush will be reelected. he won't be accountable to anyone (as neither he nor cheney will be up in 2008) so it'll be a fairly/moderately grim 4 years, with the hard right basically in control. but after that, i think america will be more than ready for the dems again.
• I did an expat turn as a teenager with my parents. I lived in North Yorkshire, England for a couple of years while my father worked for an oil services company. I know I'd enjoy living abroad again, but I'd want to come home eventually. I can't imagine leaving the US permanently. I think a lot of people who say they'll leave underestimate how difficult it is to go to a strange country to live. I know Canada is supposed to be more like the US than Britain, but in the 1980s, northern England was still pretty strange to an American teenager. It's not the big things that get you. It's the little things, like differences in foods, that drive you nuts. The oil expats I know have agreed that that's particularly true in places like the UK, where everything is superficially similar. You expect things to be different in Kuwait or Jakarta. A place that's a lot like home is more jarring when it's not. Maybe it's my inner Texan coming out, but I can't imagine letting Bush run me out of my own country with my tail between my legs. I didn't leave Texas when he was governor, and I'm having enough trouble adjusting to New York/New Jersey as it is (don't y'all know about remoulade?). But I'm a Texas liberal, so I already know what it's like to get my car vandalized for pro-choice bumper stickers, to defend abortion clinics, to be the only liberal at my office and worry that mentioning politics will screw up my job, etc. I think it's better and more important to do the work to fix things than to leave.
• I plan to stay right here and stock up on ammo for the Kalashnikovs, in case the marauding packs of Republicans try to tear down my peace flags.
• A) You are all just talking, and setting yourselves up for ridicule if W wins and you don't move, and B) aren't you giving up on your country a might too easily? The electoral vote tracking page (http://www.electoral-vote.com/) is showing Kerry inching back ahead this morning. He is ahead of where Al Gore was at this point four years ago, Nader doesn't look to be a factor this time, and public dissatisfaction over Iraq is growing. Take heart!
• I'm going nowhere - for better or worse, America is my home, and I won't leave for political reasons unless my family is put into physical danger. But if I had to go, or felt that leaving was a necessity? Italy. A beautiful country and a long and glorious history that you can still see and touch, the best food and wine in the world, the home of the Houses of Versace and Zegna, scads of lovely dark-haired women, a language that's poetry on the ear...? Definitely Italy. Runner-up: Austria, near the Swiss border, which is where my genetic stock originated. Mountain people, alpenvolk, roots deep as the Berge themselves. I'll put an edelweiss in my lapel and think of you all over my morning schnapps.
• I want to travel a heck of a lot more (one of the reasons I'm working to change career tracks), and possibly work in another country, but I always want to be able to come back to the States. Any chance we can get Bush to emigrate to St. Helena?
• I talk about leaving the US a whole lot. And I have to say that my last few boyfriends have scored extra points if they had dual citizenship. Alas, the man who has Swiss and Spanish citizenship didn't work out. But my current squeeze has British citizenship and works in France a couple of months out of the year. He is, in fact, considering moving to the UK. But I don't know if that would be much better than the US. My other issue with moving abroad is that my career centered on US socio/political issues: Reproductive freedom, civil liberties, separation of church and state. I have a hard time envisioning what kind of work I might do along those lines in another country. A similar but different question... has anyone changed their mind about starting a family based on the current national and global political climate?
• Moving is surrenduring. And while canada has many fine qualities, it isn't perfect. From knowing several Canadians and spending a limited ammount of time there, there are fundamental differences from what I think of as a perfect society. When it comes to tolerance and diversity, they are pretty top notch, but as someone who has libertarian leanings, I think I would find it hard to live with the rules and regulations I saw. To whitewash the whole of America as bad because some areas support an administration one disagrees with is foolhearty at best. There are places in America that are as different from each other as any cities in different countries.
• Leave if you must. But I rather like you here. If I were to leave, it wouldn't be for political reasons. I tried to leave the States last year--went to Ireland. Didn't last, but was a great experience. I'd definitely head back, though the no-smoking in pubs ban has me bothered.
• I don't think I'd leave, mostly because I wouldn't be financially able to (mortgage, 2 kids, chronic disease), but I do shudder to think what the country might be like when my 4 year-old is 8 and my 3-month old is 4. Only marginally related, but yesterday someone ripped my Kerry/Edwards sign out of my yard. I think it was probably punk kids, but then I remembered there used to be another K/E sign in a neighboring neighborhood, and it has also disappearred. Dissent will not be tolerated. Resistance is futile.
• I have seen very little evidence to contradict my belief that the Swedes are the best people in the world. New Zealanders miss out because you can never tell if they're a real Kiwi or an Israeli spy; Canadians lose out because of their violent reaction if you mistakenly suggest they're an American. I say go to Sweden.
• Oooh, Fes is right. Though I don't think Italy is the place to move if you want sane politics exactly. As another Texas liberal I am more the type to hole up with a shotgun at home, though. Seriously, I think staying and resisting and being one of America's loons would do more good, even if that condition lasts decades. If America were less powerful I'd be more apt to skip it. Well, if it all comes to that. It's awful easy to think the U.S. is about to descend into civil war if you read a lot of the Internet.
• A similar but different question... has anyone changed their mind about starting a family based on the current national and global political climate? Not at all. There are lots of undesirable people out there...bigots, religious extremists, homophobes, etc...and they're having lots of kids and teaching their twisted truths to them right now. As for the rest of us, I'd say it's our duty to procreate and teach *our* values to our children so we can "keep the balance".
• Oooh, good link LarryC--nothing quite like getting your political junkie on--but it deserves to be live.
• B) aren't you giving up on your country a might too easily? I don't think so. Bush being re-elected is just a symptom of a larger problem in the US, that of a massive ideological divide. For some people, that divide has made the US an undesirable place to live. People change belief systems when they discover that their personal beliefs don't match those of their church/temple/etc - why can't it be the same way for political systems? and I agree, Swedes are cool!
• Don't know how you Texans feel about it, but I had a friend suggest we give Texas back to Mexico for assorted aesthetic, political, and cultural reasons...
• flashboy, my best friend lived in sweden for four years. recently a swedish friend came to visit and we sat around discussing politics, culture, lifestyles, etc. bottom line: much of sweden is really cold and really dark a lot of the year. thus, depression is a problem; docs recommend light therapy. many swedes cope by drinking. (this is from the swede herself.) so although sweden sounds like utopia, it has its own challenges.
• The US political system is broken. Doesn't work at all. It's irrelevant who wins the necessary electoral votes in November. We're fucked any way it goes.
• Perhaps, uncleozzy. But I think that working toward getting less fucked is worthwhile, with the hope that one day we can dig ourselves out of the hole of fuckitude. Baby steps, people.
• I can't believe that none of the men here have yet mentioned moneyjane as a reason to move to Canada. I don't know how I feel about that. ;) Add me to the list of nervous people who say no, I'm not going. Not even if he wins. It would take something definite, some major violation for me to finally get my passport and skedaddle. But even then, I don't know if I'd run, or if I'd join up with the revolution. Probably would depend on whether I have kids at that point. The thing that disturbs me, though, is that things have become so troublesome here that I've actually spent time pondering and discussing this question with my wife and friends. Never before did I ever dream of giving it a second's serious thought. Anyway, for all its warts, for all that I hate about it, I love this place.
• much of sweden is really cold and really dark ... depression is a problem ... cope by drinking Wow. They have made a country out of my personality. Impressive.
• But I think that working toward getting less fucked is worthwhile Absolutely; I couldn't agree more. But every day I doubt more and more that it can be done within the boundaries of our gigantic government. Disillusioned wouldn't begin to describe it. Look at the US Civil War -- the southern states saw the Federal government as irreparably tyrannical and took action. And look how that ended. I'm not saying a bloody revolution is necessary, but unless people get some common sense -- and legislators start working toward the common good -- that's what we're going to need to straighten this situation out.
• If you're moving to Canada to avoid the ideological divide, don't bother; we have our own screwed up federal politics up here. Things are, on the one hand, less acrimonious—it seems the biggest issue the west has with Ontario and Quebec is they feel underrepresented considering their financial power (read: Alberta) and the sizable constituency, not so much things like trying to put God in Parliament Hill, making abortions illegal, or waging objectionable wars of liberation / conquest. On the other hand, we also have Quebec, and that's definitely something you Yanks don't have to deal with. But essentially it's all the same issue: everyone's crying for attention (and money), which is nothing new. So basically, you'll love it here—just don't tell anyone you're from Toronto, or everyone will hate you.
• Hey, I passed the immigration test, 74 out of 100! Whoo!
• Don't know how you Texans feel about it, but I had a friend suggest we give Texas back to Mexico for assorted aesthetic, political, and cultural reasons... All for it, dude, just give me time to pack my things and we'll all be set.
• Hmm, well, either of my brothers would be able to emigrate, French-speaking bastids!
• (I'm still not feeling the need to emigrate, just realized the reason I didn't pass the test was my complete lack of French.)
• I've often thought about moving away, but I always come back to the feeling that if something goes really wrong with the US government, you won't be able to get far enough away for it not to matter. I'd rather stay and fight.
• I'm staying. I was born and raised here and I think this is a beautiful country. I'll be damned if I'll leave it to the bad guys. Oh, and. If it were up to me, people would have the ability to vote ONLY if they passed a test that proved they had a clue about ALL the candidate's positions. Same with bills. I'm thinking that would eliminate a whole lot of knee-jerk votes. I actually think Democracy as its practiced in the US kinda sucks, even on a local level. So, nyeh.
• >> """aren't you giving up on your country a might too easily?""" > I don't think so. Bush being re-elected is just a symptom of a larger problem in the US Cabingirl hit the nail on the head. It's largely about values. While I can try to deal with living amongst morons, empowering them for four more years is going to do a lot of damage.
• I have several gay friends who are considering moving up to Seattle or thereabouts just so they are closer to the border. Sad isn't it, that it has come to this. On the plus side, even if it is four more years down the road (and because I have a very bad feeling Bush is going to win) I am really looking forward to the 2008 elections. As of now, that will be a win/win situation!
• If George Bush wins the election I'm going to move to America.
• rolypolyman: When the radical right gets me down, I try to remember this is their last corner of the Earth. Look at the liberals, Democrats, and pragmatists on this board, who have emmigration options around the world. If the Democrats were running the entire Federal government, where would the Freeper types move? Iraq, to take advantage of their flat tax? Spain, where the government subsidizes the Catholic Church? Israel, where they can do their eschatological worst? The reason they're so nuts- vandalizing signs, kicking women when they're down, and stealing elections- is because they're fighting like cornered rats. If you bail because of one election cycle, you're just prolonging the inevitable and making it that much harder for the rest of us who stick around.
• I saw we all move into Monkeybashi's house and create our own reality show.
• I don't know any American who's moved just because of the Republicans. But I do know at least four or five for whom that was a definite incentive. Like me. I moved here before the 2000 election because my husband is Canadian, but the fact that Bush was probably going to be the next president sealed the deal. Now, I have very little desire to go back, although I would like to move out of Winnipeg (it's a hell-hole).
• When I was in high school, my friends and I came up with a plan to merge with Baja and secede from the union. The tricky part was how to convince the rest of the US to let us go without a fight. If things progress the way they seem to be going, maybe the Powers That Be will cut us loony left coasters loose just to be rid of us. In that case you would all be welcome to join us in Las Californias. ¡Viva!
• Terminal, crazy, and mean.
• I scored 67 on the Skilled Worker test. Let me get my coat.
• Cascadia
• THIS JUST IN! washington press release o' the day... Eyebrows... a key indicator for the presidential election? Grooming Lounge survey results reveal prospective winner Washington, DC (September 22, 2004)--Bushier-browed candidates have lost the popular vote in the last four presidential elections, according to the nation's capital's experts on grooming. In a recent survey by Grooming Lounge, 92 percent of respondents say Senator John Kerry has the most pronounced "eyebrows of mass destruction" of the two candidates. "In order to prevent history from repeating itself, we believe Kerry needs to have his eyebrows groomed," said Mike Gilman, co-founder of Grooming Lounge. "We would recommend waxing or trimming them to reduce the furriness and give Kerry a better shot at winning over the public." In this era of televised campaigns, the election will ultimately come down to whomever "looks the part." To that end, Grooming Lounge, the country's premier destination for fine men's grooming products and services, recently conducted a survey to get voters' views on the primping habits of the candidates. Visit www.groominglounge.com to cast your vote.
• I think about it constantly. My partner is British and we're planning on getting married early next year. I play out the scenarios in my mind daily: 1) Marrying in the UK. Pros: open up the rest of the EU for ourselves, escape Bush and his ilk, avoid the insanity of the American INS process, and Cons: long separations from my two daughters (currently with me about 1/3 time) and leaving a rather highly paid job for no job. 2) Marrying in the US. Pros: continued regular time with my kids and ongoing employment--allowing me to contribute to their expenses, and Cons: putting up with the hassles my partner will experience with getting a work permit and the inability to travel out of the country until that's dealt with, becoming dependent upon my income (as he will give up his UK employment) alone for a period of time, probably ending up locked in to staying in the US until the kids are off to college (five years). I play them out, but it's all wishful thinking in the end. Unless my ex suddenly decides to relocate to Europe I'm not going anywhere. It's really only that I could do it if I really wanted to that makes it so tantalizing. And that I'm so disgusted by the last four years.
• Genuinely Curious Non-USA George: I suppose everybody here is considering this after a clean election result. Bush winning by an ample margin, no doubts on the process or outcome. But, should some big, nasty ballot fraud that makes 00' Florida look like a typo happened, what would you do?
• I always assume and hope when people say this stuff it is empty hyperbole to express how much they hate Bush. When I think of all the people throughout history who have stayed in their homeland in the face of torture, prison, threats to life and limb, etc., the idea of abandoning the U.S. because of who is president strikes me as somewhat silly... Personally, I love my country and would never live permenantly anywhere else. And the simple fact is, much as I hate Bush, no one in jackboots will kick down my door Nov. 3rd b/c I supported Kerry. My day-to-day life will go on exactly as it was before. As a lifelong liberal and ACLU member etc etc etc I never thought I'd say this kind of thing, but if your love for your country is that shallow, go ahead. We can do without you.
• Flagpole: Try not to act surprised.
• As a lifelong liberal and ACLU member etc etc etc I never thought I'd say this kind of thing, but if your love for your country is that shallow, go ahead. Yes, because we all know how easy a decision it is to leave your home behind and emigrate to another country, possibly giving up jobs, familiy, property, and comfort.
• Yes, because we all know how easy a decision it is to leave your home behind and emigrate to another country, possibly giving up jobs, familiy, property, and comfort. I'd say it'd be very easy if we all knew we were crashing at Monkeybashi's place.
• islander: That's a fantastic site. I want a t-shirt. The Republic of Cascadia is not yet officially recognized by Canada, the United States of America, or the United Nations. Not that it is any of their business. Flagpole: that's when that whole right of the citizens to "alter or abolish" the government kicks in, imo.
• flagpole, how could that possibly happen?
• Brian Drain
• SideDish
• that's when that whole right of the citizens to "alter or abolish" the government kicks in Unfortunately, it seems the majority of the people in the US who consider revolution an option are complete nutcases (the income-tax-evader and Men-in-Black types), "white power" types, or both.
• I too have noticed a shortage of Brians. Plenty of Daves and Steves, but Brians not so much.
• just noting that cascadia has been seen here before... [/vanity]
• I too have noticed a shortage of Brians. If you want to find Brian, just follow the gourd.
• 44 minutes from typo to mandatory Monty Python reference. Good work, Mofites.
• Naah, i won't relocate if Bush wins the election. I like living in northern Sweden.
• I'm surpised noone has piped up for australia here - we're like Kiwi's, only with a sexier accent and better weather ;) but perhaps I should leave it like that.. don't want to be drowned under a wave of feeling USians...
• *whimper* fleeing.. FLEEING!
• How 'bout counter fleeing Aussies? I _left_ Australia in part because of the Howard government, talk about feeling silly now. Well, actually no. I found a SO over here. So I can't get that upset, I guess.
• Honestly? I don't find the Howard government that bad - they did some things that _needed_ to be done, and I can't say that Latham looks all that different. And I can't take anyone seriously who looks like a tubby, crankly, teenager - Latham just looks _soft_.
• The Northern Territories of Aussie would certainly suit some Americans, in particular those who want lots of guns and no speed limits. Of course, the insane morality laws Australia has relative to New Zealand might make a few prospective immgrants wince.
• The tragic decline of Australia's cricket team* should surely give prospective immigrants pause for thought. Also, no hobbits. *Couldn't resist, sorry.
• Yes, because we all know how easy a decision it is to leave your home behind and emigrate to another country, possibly giving up jobs, familiy, property, and comfort. Thank you. As an immigrant, I was tempted to bite drjimmy11's flamebait. Thank you for saying what I was about to say calmly. Back to the question: I'm Canadian. I love the country I've chosen. But if Bush wins and Canada continues to act America's sassy concubine, I'll leave. Americans planning to escape Bush need to look elsewhere. Canada is economically, politically and culturally dependent on America. It pains me to say this, but we Canadians have been biting the hand that feeds, protects and entertains us. It's embarrassing.
• This is totally redundant, but I must say that I don't approve of fleeing the country if Bush wins in November. Also if you plan to leave, you'd better be quick. America is fast heading for most-despised-nation status around the world.
• i am more than willing to hide american political refugees under my bed. or the couch. i can probably fit one or two in the fridge, too.
• rogerd: insane morality laws Australia has relative to New Zealand Que? How do you mean? I ask only for information - I'm curious to know how they differ
• coriolisdave - simple really. I have a technology based education, and the technology policies of the Howard government left me with a profoundly pessimistic job outlook.
• And New Zealand has dinosaurs!
• polychrome - at least you don't have a science degree ;) neither do I, but still.. ;) Being the head-in-the-sand kinda guy that I am, though, I'm not entirely sure what the Howard goverment did, or could've done differently...? I mean, apart from preventing Australia from plunging into recession like most of the Western world... ;) hangon, weren't we talking about morality laws?
• prismatic - Will the fridge be stocked on a regular basis?
• Australian Dinosar
• coriolisdave: Howard could lay off pandering to the religious right, not bend over any time an American Republican hoves into view, not tell the most despicable lies about refugees, not plan a massive millitary escalation, and not undo the good-guy stance on East Timor by trying to fuck them over on border/oil issues. It's like living next to Bush. The insane morality laws I'm thinking of are mostly the senate-level pandering to the likes of Fred Nile, such as the legalities around buying porn (can be shipped out of some territories, but not out of a State). They're irritating and dumb, but mostly harmless (although some proposals like the Great Firewall of Australia are pretty scary...) The other problem with some parts of Aussie is the corruption, especially around, eg, the NSW police force or all of Brisbane's government... Not, you understand, that I think Australia is a dreadful place, and I suspect it would actually be more comfortable for many Americans, being bigger, more multi-ethinic in some ways, and being a little more right-wing and a lot more self-confident than we are. Although either Australia or New Zealand would likely be a huge shock to the system on politics generally.
• Hmm. Not quite sure whether I'm with you on the corrupt-Brisbane-government bit -- I know it used to be horribly corrupt, but I like to hope that it's much less so now. As to the rest, I swing between agreeing with you, and being forced to think some of it depends on your point of view - I don't think Howard necessarily bends over for American Republicans, specifically, simply for American politicians as a whole. That being said, I don't think that on the big calls (war in Iraq, for instance) that he had overly much choice in the matter - at the time, America's if-they-ain't-with-us-they're-agin'-us stance was particularly strong, and Australia is sadly reliant on US trade and defence relations. All that, however, is completely besides the point! That being, of course, that we're far superior to kiwiana land ;) temporary cricket blips notwithstanding - we're just trying to lure the world into a false sense of security! Honest!
• toying with the idea of emigrating from the US if Bush wins re-election? no. as a preventative measure, i'm encouraging everyone i know/don't know to vote. i really don't think it's the undecideds that will determine this race, rather those who normally do not vote. consider this, the highest turnout in the last 50 years for a u.s. presidential election was just over 60%...gheez we suck.
• I've mentioned this before, but it is quite pertinent to this thread: I emigrated from the U.S. to Canada shortly after Bush 'won' the last election. There were many reasons, some of them having nothing to do with the Republican misery we all saw get inflicted on the country: my wife is Canadian, and upon my reaching retirement age, we were left with options. I've always loved Canada, so we decided to move here. We were absently making plans when a couple of events kicked our asses and made us speed up the process. First, Bush and his ultraconservative Christian buddies started making a lot of noise about banning same-sex marriage (and they continue to do so). Having a son and several other relatives and many friends who are gay, I saw that for what it was: bald-faced bigotry masquerading as 'concern for the family' and 'respecting religion'. My son and his partner (soon to be spouse -- we're making wedding plans here now) saw that they'd never be allowed to be married in the U.S., and more than being insulting, it's just plain wrong. As a family, we have too much respect for ourselves and our interpersonal relationships to live in a place that denies us. My son and his partner fought hard for domestic partnership agreements for a while, but they were impossible to obtain. Then, Bush and his chickenhawk buddies did the most disgusting thing ever openly performed in recent U.S. history: they invaded, illegally and immorally, a sovereign nation based on lies that they knew were lies. Pre-emptive war? How is that at all defendable? It is the direct 'adult' descendent of the childhood classic "I hit him back first" and makes not the slightest amount of sense. At that point we had our papers in order, our house was in the process of being sold, and we'd found a place to live in Toronto (when/if my French improves, we'll probably move to Montreal). I haven't regretted it for a moment. Quality of life is simply better here, in innumerable ways, and I can't imagine going back.
• Welcome to Canada, Coppermac! Too bad about Toronto though. the Toronto crack was just the BC bud talkin'
• If I move to NZ, will I get to live in Hobbiton? Or is that Lincolnshire?
• Depends; you could also live on Shania Twain's recently-purchased high country station. Except she probably wouldn't like that.
• i am more than willing to hide american political refugees under my bed. or the couch. i can probably fit one or two in the fridge, too. posted by prismatic7 at 12:41AM UTC on September 23 But not in your bed? What gives??? Canada = America's sassy concubine. Good one, kenshin! BTW, my mother hasn't voted in as long as I can remember. She's voting in November. She hates Bush that much.
• MonkeyFilter: Your Online Sassy Concubine
• prismatic7 has the right idea here, people. Everyone should keep an emergency backup American under the bed at all times. And yes, for freshness, an extra can be kept in long-term refrigerated storage. I would recommend a hillbilly for the underbed model (we're built for comfort, you understand, and we have a thousand and one uses) and a good, solid Yankee for the fridge (they're more resistant to freezer-burn). Maintenance is simple, just make sure that our beer bowl is full and feed us at least twice a day, then drop us in the tub and let us splash around for a while before bedtime. Oh, and give us some of those Tim-Tam thingies. Those look damn tasty.
• Thanks for the welcome, islander. I've been out your way a few times and loved it. Toronto was a good choice for a variety of reasons, and I think it gets maligned for fun as much as it does for legitimate reasons. Even Torontonians seem to like to play the game which denigrates them and their city.
• The tragic decline of Australia's cricket team Congrats, flash. I expected to be ribbed about this sooner.
• coppermac - no, we don't! Toronto is the best place on earth, bar none - no matter how nice other places are, only Toronto (Etobicoke, to be exact) has the almighty Apache Burger. That's what makes us a real "world class city"!