September 16, 2004
It's Over In Iraq
More and more towns are being taken over by insurgents and the Bush administration humorously maintains that the elections in Iraq will proceed in January. I can't see the United States being in Iraq another five years. Sorry for the second post of the day, but I thought this was worth discussing.
-
Wait, this is my first post of the monkey day!
-
I was gonna say, remember monkey time is New Zealand time.
-
In that case, HAPPY MEXICAN INDEPENDANCE DAY!!!!! As for Iraq, we have precious little to celebrate there....
-
Military experts say they see no exit from the Iraq debacle -- and that the war is helping al-Qaida
-
U.S. Intelligence Shows Pessimism on Iraq's Future
-
Monkeytime is UTC - generally UK time (but not in daylight savings)
-
These young Iraqi men are (according to Donald Rumsfeld) are going to defend the country's security.
-
Amazing. Yeah, it's been real peaceful in Iraq.
-
I can't understand how the neocons who dreamed this mess up in the first place could have failed to plan for the events that are unfolding in Iraq day by day, given that they were predicted by a massive, worldwide movement against the war. It's like the old, newly hyperlinked Onion article about "our long national nightmare of peace and prosperity" being over, only even less funny. And yet, their mantra remains that things are going well.
-
That's the problem with idealogues - they don't think things through logically or realistically, even to their own benefit. If these guys had any real link to reality, then they would never have invaded Iraq on a budget. Surely any realistic neoconservative, even if they insisted on invading Iraq, would have recognized the huge risks involved both for themselves personally and the US, and insisted on overwhelming force and a clear plan. Instead, they went with the three stooges, have-our-cake-and-eat-it-too concept.
-
Got your very own Beirut there, dudes.
-
When Osama is paraded before the media in a month's time, all this will be forgotten until the new year, and that, after all, has been the plan all along, non?
-
So how many of us predicted that we'd be in Iraq for years? And will the media ever give us the credit we deserve by saying we were right all along?
-
Over? You wish. Christopher Albritton had even more cheery things to say. His final word for those who clamor for the good news about Iraq.
-
And will the media ever give us the credit...? Nope. I remind you that no one believed Cassandra. When Troy fell, she was raped by Ajax, then taken as a concubine by Agamemnon. only to be murdered by Clytemnestra and Ægisthus.
-
The mythological implications are staggering. And depressingly apt, I might add.
-
Speaking of mythology -Things are bad in Iraq, and not even a genie is immune - via Juan Cole. It's a serious piece, even with the genie. New Iraq attacks more sophisticated.
-
homunculus, is that the same vaunted intelligence that got us in Iraq in the first place? I will reserve comment on the actual situation in Iraq, however it seems that Bush is dropping the ball on stabilizing the situation over there. It's a lack of support for continuing the democratizing process that seems to be symptomatic of the Bush administration's lack of planning for the post-war situation.
-
Hmmm, yes, yes... it also seems to be symptomatic of the Bush administration's excess of megalomaniacal asshattery.
-
As counterpoint, David Warren (via Instapundit) posits that the strategy (or strategery) was risky, and that it has backfired. However, as Val Kilmer says in The Ghost and the Darkness: "As a matter of fact, it didn't work. But I'm convinced the theory is sound." I think there's validity to this idea.
-
Mind you f8xmulder, a lot of the intelligence on Iraq was spot on including (but not limited to) - 1) low probability (and falling, courtesy Mr Blix) that Iraq had much of any WMDs 2) it would require ~400 000 troops to occupy Iraq (courtesy Mr Shinseki, well Mr now, was General before he came up with that unfortunate number) 3) Chalabi is probably not trustworthy 4) Chalabi shouldn't be trusted 5) cost will be $100 billion and up 6) no, oil revenues won't pay for it
-
Sorry, going to get a bit shrill here but JUST ONE???? Where to begin. 1) not enough troops. At all. 2) no (or a very narrow) window of legitimacy. Terminated right around when local elections, last year, were cancelled 3) installing US administrators on the basis of their Republican credentials, not experience 4) Chalabi 5) sacked Iraqi military 6) Pentagon and State Department didn't communicate, thus State's planning for post invasion Iraq was ignored
-
The truly scary part is that the West Bank is starting to look like prime vacation territory compared to Iraq.
-
Fucking Congo is looking like ClubMed compared to Iraq right now.
-
A possibly interesting little wrinkle - I can't find anybody reporting it yet, but apparently the left wing in Italy is quietly going batshit over the Two Simonas, the Italian aid workers who were kidnapped. Seemingly, they find the circumstances of their kidnap somewhat suspicious... Supposedly they were taken by between twenty and thirty armed men, none of whom were concealing their identity, who raided the anti-war charity's offices and called the two ladies and their Iraqi colleagues out by name. Oh, and who drove jeeps belonging to the Iraqi military. The group they claim to belong to has never been heard of before. It's hearsay, I know - but people are apparently wondering if it might be a group linked to Allawi, rather than insurgents, who were responsible. I don't suppose anybody else has heard anything similar? Or maybe I should just go stock up on tinfoil...
-
-
Sidney Blumenthal's piece. At this point, reading condemnations of the war is like viewing pornography. If millions of anti-war marchers (i.e., 'focus groups') could not prevent the war, what will all this nagging accomplish now? No one in this dysfunctional country cares any more.
-
reading condemnations of the war is like viewing pornography You must be viewing some pretty bad pornography. The only hope I have of a shift in public opinion on the war is the fact that Farenheit 911 comes out on DVD this fall, just in time to influence a few undecideds before election day. Barring that, Bush wins, and the war goes on.
-
The Green Zone in Baghdad on the verge of being breached. (If not already.)
-
Far graver than Vietnam
-
Even Fox News is carrying the bad news.
-
Cue Roger Simon (who I almost never read). Roger, doesn't seem to understand that U.S. troops are loosing parts of Iraq. Now if I was a neocon I would point out to Roger that it is because the President is too big of a pussy to go in and get the job done. These Blogostan guys didn't were wrong about WMDs and they're still wrong.
-
At this point, reading condemnations of the war is like viewing pornography. If millions of anti-war marchers (i.e., 'focus groups') could not prevent the war, what will all this nagging accomplish now? No one in this dysfunctional country cares any more Few in this dysfunctional world do. Many if not most Americans consider invading another country unprovoked to be a legitimate act of defense. Come November we'll know for sure whether it's many or most. In the meantime, there's nothing the rest of the world can do, since the Americans are strong enough to do whatever they like. They can casually substitute "liberation" for "invasion" if they so choose. Godawful porn.
-
I wouldn't agree that it's over in Iraq, but I doubt that anyone with the slightest amount of sense believes that the U.S. can 'win' what's left. It's nice to see that one of the few remaining right wing apologists for the illegal invasion has been reduced to quoting the talentless waste of air that is Val Kilmer (in yet another horribly bad film) in order to try and make a point. What's wrong, f8xmulder, was the Krusty the Clown database down whan you needed some pertinent commentary?
-
Kiwi troops coming home
-
Many if not most Americans consider invading another country unprovoked to be a legitimate act of defense. It just boggles my mind.
-
Gary Breucher the War Nerd discusses the futility of the gorilla war.
-
coppermac: I've already stated my perceptions of the war here, and don't feel I need to reiterate them in this thread. As for the movie, you're wrong: it's one of the few movies I can actually stand Kilmer, and has a darn good story.
-
guerilla. Although gorilla is more on topic.
-
'Guerrilla' even, though I see the one-arr spelling more often now-a-days.
-
We know your perceptions of the war, f8xmulder, and that's why we challenge them. You're hopelessly deluded, and it seems willful on your part. Your taste in movies is as nuanced as your political judgement, and that's just sad.
-
Why 'hopelessly deluded'? F8x has already accepted that he was (mostly) wrong about the WMDs. This shows that he is not impervious to reason. His not sharing your political views is hardly proof that his views aren't nuanced. I suspect, in fact, that he supports the war for highly complex reasons (which are debatable).
-
His opinions are different from ours. Get him.
-
Exactly, mct. Can we forego the namecalling and ad hominems, pretty please?
-
As for my taste in movies, isn't that just it--MY taste?
-
Mark Steyn is saying that the good news in Iraq is being ignored. He also confuses Iraq with Britain. War journalism written by Monty Python.
-
Iraq timeline
-
A strident minority: anti-Bush US troops in Iraq
-
If America were Iraq, What would it be Like?