August 02, 2004
Niger Story Really Falling Apart
I was going to write a post about this, but this is better. Kevin Drum outlines in painful detail how the whole Niger uranium story is going to hell. It's hysterical. The CIA never actually looked at the documents. The CIA also didn't believe the British reports that Iraq was trying to buy uranium. But it doesn't matter since Joe Wilson is a liar.
Josh Marshall is also working on a story (not for his blog) about the Niger documents.
Marshall reports that they came from a security consultant. Not Iran.
You’ll remember that most of the papers in the bundle of Niger-uranium documents that arrived at the US Embassy in Rome were actually authentic. It was only a subset of the documents --- those specifically related to the alleged Niger-Iraq transactions and a couple others --- that were bogus.
In late 2001, the SISMI officer brought the Niger Embassy employee a packet of documents --- those later identified as forgeries --- and instructed her to slip them in with the other documents she was providing to the ‘security consultant’ on an on-going basis.
She mixed those documents in with authentic documents which she had access to in the course of her work at the embassy. She then passed those documents --- again, a mix of authentic and forged ones --- to the ‘security consultant’.
The Italians knew the documents were forged and kept trying to push them on "the US, Britain and France -- in late 2001 and 2002." It seems that the security cunsultant has a criminal record. But none of this matters since Joe Wilson lied.
And here's a link of a girl streaking during a soccer game and scoring a goal.
Brilliant. Apparently the intelligence community has at least one thing in common with retail clerk community. Screwing up means job security.
Got that? They just assumed that the original report was a verbatim transcript so they didn't bother looking at the documents themselves. That's some high quality analysis there.
Reminds me of the White House press corps.
*zing!*
Pete, it reminds me of the whole thread about how many headlines is Joe Wilson getting these days. Look for headlenes, but never mind reading the articles (or intell reports).
*shakes head*
Hey what's the story with the girl streaking? That was cool to me.
Sully, I'm not sure how this relates to the Joe Wilson headline thing. The fact that the CIA botched this bigtime doesn't reduce or eliminate Wilson's credibility stain.
And if it's okay for you to post links from Kevin Drum and Josh Marshall, then why isn't it okay for me or others to post links to Instapundit or NRO?
Not that I care all that much, but it seems suspect of you to complain about IP links when you parrot Drum and TPM links.
Nor does Joe Wilson's "credibility stain" reduce or eliminate the fact that the CIA botched this bigtime.
Because Kevin Drum and Josh Marshall are reporters as opposed to a law professor or the online partisan bird cage liner that is the NRO.
Yes, and we all know reporters aren't partisan.
And no one tried to say the CIA was blameless. However, Sully has actively tried to conflate the one while disregarding the other.
So again I'll ask: what does Joe Wilson's lying and subsequent media dropoff have to do with the CIA's fumbling of this story? Why does Sully even bring it up here?
Now that I think about it, how does being a law professor make them less viable as a resource?
Not saying that they weren't. But if you want to go by that logic, then let's link to anyone. I was merely answering your question. It is more socially acceptable to quote news stories from actual reporters then some guy who does it as a hobby or from pundits who get paid to have opinions.
Oh, and you want to trade links about that old chestnut?
what does Joe Wilson's lying and subsequent media dropoff have to do with the CIA's fumbling of this story? Why does Sully even bring it up here?
Nothing, which is why I'm wondering why it's such an issue to begin with, considering that it's quite the red herring when you look at the report as a whole.
Awww, that's so cute! Alterman quotes himself...
Speaking of chestnuts...
Ach! Mein Leben! I am slain! (I could call you an anti-Semite, in jest, given your mistaking my response link for a fallacy named after an ethnic prejudice, but I'll refrain.)
Poisoning the well is only fallacy if the well wasn't poisoned to begin with.
At any rate, this is direct refutation of Alterman's book and its "facts", not Alterman himself. And anyway, I responded after you--poisoning the well generally involves pre-emption.
(I could call you an anti-Semite, in jest, given your mistaking my response link for a fallacy named after an ethnic prejudice, but I'll refrain.)
Can you explain that for the morons (and me, haha) in the crowd, f8xmulder?
And isn't the posting of fallacy explanations itself...a fallacy? I think it's called the Oh Crap, I Better Find a Fallacy That Comes Close! Gambit
dng, Jews were often blamed with posioning wells with the black plague during the Middle Ages, which was then an excuse to persecute them.
It's an unfortunate name for a fallacy, IMHO, but there's no helping it.
never knew that. cheers
Many jews were accused of poisoning wells back during the middle ages. Jewish communities were sometimes thought to be immune to the plague because they wouldn't contract the disease that tore through the towns. (Mostly because they were avoided by the gentiles whenever possible.) Since they seemed to not get sick when everyone else did, they were accused of poisoning the water supply.
It is currently used to describe an attempt to preclude discussion by attacking the credibility of an opponent.
I think f8x is off his meds.
That's right, make fun of my medical condition. Thanks!
(f8x, you are aware that site about liberal media bias is run by a conservative group, correct? i'm just sayin'...)
Speaking of liberal bias...
NYTimes registration, blah blah... you guys should know how to get in there by now, but if not, login:slashdot/pass:slashdot
Notice how f8x refuses to discuss the actual Nigerian uranium documents. Wilson said that the documents that he was sent to Niger to investigate on were forged and the CIA has said that his wife did not get him the job. This is a matter of shooting the messanger. F8x, Instapundit and the National Review don't matter because these people never know what the hell they are taliking about and what the hell is this anti-Semite garbage about. I hardly think that applies to shawnj. F8x, the point is Josh Mashall has been investigating the Niger story for months and Kevin Drum read the intelligence reports (so have I). We can talk about the racism that I seen on Instapundit and the National Review if you want.
don't ye talk about racism. There be other threads for that . . ya'aar . .
/sea_captain
f8x, Reason is run by a conservative think tank Reason Foundation. Charles Koch funds Reason and gives big to GOP candiadtes.
For example, Charles Koch found himself under investigation by the U.S. Senate for his alleged role in funding so-called "issue ads" that helped conservative Republican congressional candidates in 1996.
snip
Koch has had plenty of run-ins with government regulators and other legal problems in recent years. Through it all, the company has shown a remarkable knack for getting criminal charges dropped and huge potential penalties knocked down.
In late 2000—as the Clinton Administration was preparing to leave office—Koch was hit with a 97-count indictment for covering up the discharge of more than 15 times the legal limit of benzene, a carcinogen, from a refinery in Corpus Christi, Texas.
The company faced penalties of more than $350 million. Four Koch employees were also charged individually and faced up to 35 years in prison.
Three months after the Bush administration took office—and just before the lawsuit went to trial—the Justice Department abruptly settled the case. Koch agreed to pay $20 million and plead guilty to a single count of concealment of information. In return, the Justice Department dropped all criminal charges against Koch and the four employees.
Kosh is in the oil business.
f8x, it's painfully obvious that you don't know policy or politics.
and what the hell is this anti-Semite garbage about. I hardly think that applies to shawnj. F8x
That was a tangent, Sully. Had nothing to do with the actual discussion. Let it go. =)
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