July 27, 2004

I got an abortion. These soft and comfortable fitted tees assert a powerful message in support of women's rights. Someone please enlighten me on how these T-shirts further the cause of women's rights. Seems in bad taste to me, of course not as bad as this shirt mind you.
posted by genial 20 years ago
  • Presumably as some sort of empowering, "it's nothing to be ashamed or secretive about"-type thing? But yes, a miserable, woeful failure - I don't think (I hope) that anybody believes an abortion is something to actually be proud of... Bad judgement all round. Also, horrible shade of brown. I do predict, however, that they will become de rigeur amongst all ironic, iconic, edgy, be-mulleted urban male hipsters from Williamsburg to Hoxton. Twats. *Gets out ironic credit card*
  • they further the cause by adding numbers to the side of a woman's right to choose. tacky, but so is lurking outside the center, waiting to shout at people who are already unhappy.
  • One of the best pieces about abortion I ever read is "Abortion, Vacuum Cleaners and the Power Within" by Inga Muscio. Alas, this version here is truncated. The whole text can be found in Listen Up: Voices from the Next Feminist Generation.
  • I work at Planned Parenthood. At the moment there is a lot of internal confusion about these shirts. Speaking personally, while I agree that the stigma of abortion should be addressed, I dont think that these shirts are the right way to address the issue.
  • To further the cause, you need to get the fence-sitters and those with mild anti-abortion views over to your side. These T-shirts will do the opposite. Bad idea.
  • I am probably about as pro-choice as a person can be, rabidly pro-choice, practically pro-abortion. I am female. I have been oh-so-lucky to have the abortion experience (about which I am open & unashamed but I certainly don't go around talking about it, much less, um, bragging about it) I think the shirt is weird. not sure....I would NOT wear it myself, its just...strange. I almost like the other one better (abortion tickles) because it is obviously a (poor, tasteless) joke, whereas the first one seems to be sincere... then again, I never wear t-shirts that say things.
  • I'm not against abortions. But the ease they are carried out in some parts of the world doesn't stop to amaze me. Apart from the physical trauma all of the girls I know who had one also suffered from psychological trauma. Your body screams that you need to keep that baby while your mind doesn't want it. But I come from a country with the lowest abortion rates in the world... Although it's fairly easy to get one. But it's easier to get the pill, even for young girls. I don't like the T-shirt because it normalises abortions. It almost sends out the message: "No, I don't use birth control, I'll have an abortion if I become pregnant"
  • Mare, I agree. What's wrong with a shirt that reads "I'm pro choice and proud of it"? Seems like there's a lot more dignity and a more powerful message there.
  • mare-- that is kind of what I was thinking. Violent acts aside, condoms and birth control are cheaper than abortions. I would rather see "I use birth control" shirts. As an aside, I think it is a bit odd to see, "soft and comfortable fitted" in the description. Because I wasn't going to buy one for my female friends (if they were in men's sizes then it might be offensivly funny) but then I saw that they were "soft and comfortable fitted" and I changed my mind!
  • (my thought): There is a different message in "I had an abortion" than "I use birth control" -- many women who have had abortions use(d) birth control; and (though kimdog please correct me) I cannot see Planned Parenthood advocating abortion as the answer to birth control dilemmas. De-stigmatising women who have had abortions, and de-politicising the very personal introspective debate about whether having an abortion is right for you seems to me to be the message of this ill-advised and likely counterproductive T-shirt. Which I don't want and would never wear, soft and fitted nor not (too right, jc). interesting tactic though. thanks genial.
  • You are right, Ilyadeux. While Planned Parenthood does advocate for access to abortion, that goes hand and hand with access to reproductive healthcare, birth control and age-appropriate medically-accurate sex education. The goal is to reduced unplanned pregnancies before they happen, which will, in turn, reduce abortion. Certainly, we do not advocate abortion as a substitute to birth control. Abortions account for only 7% of the services that we provide to clients. Yeah... I think this "messaging" is a major miscalculation of the sentiments of our supporters, and muddies our overall mission. Not a great situation.
  • Mens shirt: "Don't Worry If I Get You Pregnant. The Abortion's On Me."
  • Ugh. This is a case of, "Dude. Stay off my side please."
  • kimdog, what's Planned Parenthood's annual pulldown, gross?
  • Abortion is MURDER. Period. There's no way around that. You're hacking a little life (no matter how shapeless) to pieces, I'm not pro-choice at all. If you don't want the baby, have it, and the put it up for adoption...but don't kill it. I mean, you were obvioulsy given the opportunity to live, why shouldn't your baby have the same chance? "oh but, it was rape" or "I'm too poor to sustain the baby" well STOP RIGHT THERE, cuz most of the abortions that take place are girls scared shitless of her parents... if you had the capacity to go and sleep with some dude, you have the capacity to take on your parents...and the world. at least long enough to have the baby, and give it up. I'm GROSSED the fuck out by that shirt.
  • [gets front-row seat]
  • [passes popcorn]
  • Oh my................can I get some of the popcorn? (I promise I won't feed it to the troll)
  • Is that piss I smell?
  • Hey genial, you beat me to it. Scoot over you guys, I'm sitting this one out.
  • Anyone thinking of responding to Warrior would be wise to look at this first.
  • *squeals at cuteness overload* Salted or sweet, guys?
  • salty, please, shawnj's link was sweet enough...
  • Ahh, "Warrior". Just what we needed. I think there's a reek of flaming poo, shawnj.
  • Red hots, gitcha red hots! Right heah!
  • *Throws Milkduds*
  • This shirt doesn't bother me too much. Better that then a shirt that says "daddy made me keep the baby and now I had to quit school and work at Denny's".
  • oh well! there are tons of ways in which you can stop that baby from coming together (condoms, contraceptive pills, abstinence, handjobs, etc)... plus we need people at Wendy's anyway.
  • . . . and all I got was this lousy abortion.
  • Warrior, who exactly is this "you" you're talking to? No one is arguing with your point of view. You're not even on topic. We were talking about how this t-shirt helps or hurts the effectiveness of Planned Parenthood's work, not screaming at each other about whether abortion is right or wrong.
  • amen, genial. any popcorn left? trade ya for some junior mints. damn, i love those.
  • I personally think a t-shirt with a coat hanger is much more tasteful.
  • I think you guys broke Warrior.
  • I'm a sucker for DOTS myself.
  • f8x, from our FY02-03 annual report: total revenue from Planned Parenthood Federation of America (National Office and Affiliates) $766 million. Total Expenses(domestic programs including Medical Sevices, Sex Ed, Public Policy, Services to the Field of Family Planning, and Service to Affiliates and International programs): $730 million. If you are interested in the number and types of services we provide, go here. Anybody got any Twizzlers?
  • (f8x, I hope you're not trolling...) Even if you're not gung ho on the whole abortion thing, PP fills the public health gap by providing a lot of other, very important, services. For example, last summer one of my good friends got some shit on his dick. (Despite my best efforts, he fucks a lot of dirty, nasty-ass chicks... usually when he gets really drunk. I think he also has low self-esteem.) So, I wasn't at all surprised when he told me that he got some kind of STD, he thought. It sounded disgusting. At the time, he didn't have any health insurance, even though he was working. He couldn't afford to pay cash to see a doctor. And he wasn't about to tell his parents what happened, AND ask them to pay for treatment. He didn't know what to do. I suggested that he go to either PP or his county's health dept., (luckily) I've never had to deal with any of that, personally. He went to PP, got referred, tested, and treated. And on his way in and out of PP, he was shamed and harassed by a small group of fundies. As if he already didn't feel like a total bag of shit, now there are people yelling at him and trying to make him feel guilty? Totally Awesome! That was the best, most 'Christian' use of their time? AFAIK, the PPs in my area don't even perform abortions; the hospitals do. On Preview: whatever kimdog said.
  • oh! Twizzlers! How I miss and love you. Pass those suckers over. also: good for you Wedge; on the PP referral. My friend volunteers at our local and she has these wicked Pill alarms (to remind you to take it) - brilliant invention, that.
  • back in my "very very poor young journalist" days i counted on planned parenthood for my yearly checkups. they did a great job, billed on a sliding scale. nowhere, not once, did i ever see abortion mentioned in the clinic. i think they provide a valuable service, especially for um, guys with shit on their dicks too.
  • "oh but, it was rape" ... cuz most of the abortions that take place are girls scared shitless of her parents... Must...control...urge...to...wring...someone's...fucking...neck.... (happy fuzzy kittens happy fuzzy kittens happy fuzzy kittens happy fuzzy kittens)
  • I bought one of these t-shirts for my MOM. Now she won't do my ironying :(
  • ironying? or ironing? (quid wins for Intentional Typo of the Week) Yeah, but mom still hangs up your clothes...
  • Ditto what SideDish said, except substitute "very poor person just out of college, working at a service job with no benefits until something better came along, and trying to leave an abusive-ish guy who really wanted children" for "very very poor young journalist". Hooray for cheap birth control and yearly checkups. I can't begin to imagine what my life would be like now if I had gotten pregnant at that point. /breathes sigh of relief, counts blessings happy fuzzy kitten for Sooooz Anyone want some Hot Tamales?
  • Shootin' at the walls of heartache! Bang, bang. My high school's mascot was the warrior. They played that goddamn song at every available opportunity.
  • Thank you for sharing, Warrior. Do you have anything besides anecdotal evidence or personal frame of reference to support the things you cited in your post? Just a curious monkey.
  • Just wondering, Wedge, and too lazy to go look up PP's financial info myself ;-)
  • Damn. I got all this popcorn in for nothin'...
  • Damn. I got all this popcorn in for nothin'... but it's that special flame-retardant popcorn, flashboy. See? It seems to have done the trick.
  • This is the sort of thread that makes me proud to be a monkey.
  • I wonder how long before someone accuses us of running off gen-u-whine new members by harrassing them if they don't agree with us? *starts stopwatch*
  • In lieu of MetaTalk, can someone just link to shawnj's pic any time this happens?
  • Clearly Warrior's insights into abortion come from his lofty position as a gay man, which allows him to understand the issues that affect women and the men who have sex with them far better than anyone else.
  • 1) I think Planned Parenthood would go a hell of a lot farther with a t-shirt that says what kimdog said: While Planned Parenthood does advocate for access to abortion, that goes hand and hand with access to reproductive healthcare, birth control and age-appropriate medically-accurate sex education. The goal is to reduced unplanned pregnancies before they happen, which will, in turn, reduce abortion. Certainly, we do not advocate abortion as a substitute to birth control. Abortions account for only 7% of the services that we provide to clients. 2) A huge shout-out to kimdog and Planned Parenthood for the incredibly important work that they do. I know that I and many of my friends would have been in a world of hurt without their services. 3) I *heart* shawnj and his flamewar-deflecting ways. 4) While Warrior's position makes me very, very sad, it seems unnecessarily judgemental to ascribe his views to 'his lofty position as a gay man.' I don't think his sexual orientation has anything to do with the fact that he's completely wrong on this issue. ;) I should probably shut up & get some sleep now....
  • Space Kitty - you might want to have a look at the post I linked to. Warrior seems to feel his position as a gay man gives him insights into heterosexual men, women, and their relationships they do not themselves posses. And no, his orientation doesn't. His attitude does.
  • hey, homunculus, I was going to link to I'm Not Sorry but your link beat me to it. [Also, Baumgartner, who wrote that piece, is co-author of "Manifesta: Young Women, Feminism, and the Future" and "Grassroots" with Amy Richards, recently in the 'filters' FPP with this story.
  • Sorry, rodgerd - I had another look at Warrior's comments after a good night's sleep. I must have missed the subtext about his theory of relationships because I *still* can't figure out WTF he was talking about. Apologies for the derail in a surprisingly civil thread. nothing more to see here, move along...
  • Thanks for your support guys. I arrived to work today to find a continuation of the turmoil. I am curious to see how the organization approaches this dilemma, as we have yet to make a public statement. An interesting tidbit about the shirts- PP did not design them, another pro-choice organization did (scroll up). We are selling them as a favor.
  • We (PP) are selling them as a favor. A mistake, IMO.
  • waiting for all your comments to come by. Honestly, I have gotten blasted far more fiercely in other forums, but I still stand. so, here's my "quip"... Somebody said that my opinion is totally off topic, because this is merely a discussion about how the powers that be (PP) will be affected by the tee....ppppfffffffffff! which part of you walking around with a t-shirt that says "I got an abortion" has nothing to do with my opinion on abortion? Just because your view on the issue is one of support for the Tee, doesn't mean that it's not going to offend people like me...I don't care whether the t-shirt was produced by Planned Parenthood, Hot Topic, fucking FTL or the sweat shops in chinatown...it's message is one that goes against the grain of life (and, I hate to use this word but, MORALS) and in whatever context you put it, that's how I'm gonna see it. I mean, it's almost like saying "I'm a nazi and I like to kill people" or something...IT'S JUST FUCKING WRONG! My Sexuality on this topic? BABY, my sexuality will only come to play when it's relevant to a topic. Here, it is not. Perhaps my attitude is "shocking" for some of your views but I assure you, I'm one of the most forward thinking people anyone will ever have the pleasure of meeting, and at one point I was pro-choice. Until the minute I saw I little hacked up fetus in a bottle. THAT's when shit went down. I don't see how anyone can be so bold as to say that it is OK to kill a being that's so completely defenseless. I liken it to some dude in an office making war-decisions, sending people to their death, and he hasn't even set foot on that field. What experience have I got that makes me the "authority" on the subject? Let's make something real clear right now: I'm not an authority on the subject. However, my best friend worked at an abortion clinic (local), and besides getting all the gory details, I would get to see the people that go in there. and I would get my friends account of the whole thing. conclusion? patients were young girls who are scared shitless of their parents or too "inexperienced" to have a baby. Rape cases were rare. The majority were unwated pregnancies of like 14 and 15 yr olds, who were smart enough to spread, but not smart enough not to know when to do it. I HAVE NO SYMPATHY WHATSOEVER. But I don't stop there, this extends to any woman of any age. I assure you. This tee is gonna get killed, and while I can't do anything about stopping some chick from getting an abortion, I will do my damnest to make sure that it's advertising goes to shit. There are two other things I like to say: 1/ a baby, requires a mother and father. So they're both just as guilty. If I were a girl, I would get that mofo' for all his sorry ass is worth...but our baby does not need to pay the price of our foolishness. 2/ in the the case that a woman's health is threatened by the baby (as in either you or him) then I would take a step back and shut up. But that's the only way you'll get me to shut up about this. as someone up there said, why not a t-shirt that says "I use contraceptives" or something like that. They're obvioulsy going for shock value, and that shit just don't fly.
  • waiting for all your comments to come by. Honestly, I have gotten blasted far more fiercely in other forums, but I still stand. so, here's my "quip"... Somebody said that my opinion is totally off topic, because this is merely a discussion about how the powers that be (PP) will be affected by the tee....ppppfffffffffff! which part of you walking around with a t-shirt that says "I got an abortion" has nothing to do with my opinion on abortion? Just because your view on the issue is one of support for the Tee, doesn't mean that it's not going to offend people like me...I don't care whether the t-shirt was produced by Planned Parenthood, Hot Topic, fucking FTL or the sweat shops in chinatown...it's message is one that goes against the grain of life (and, I hate to use this word but, MORALS) and in whatever context you put it, that's how I'm gonna see it. I mean, it's almost like saying "I'm a nazi and I like to kill people" or something...IT'S JUST FUCKING WRONG! My Sexuality on this topic? BABY, my sexuality will only come to play when it's relevant to a topic. Here, it is not. Perhaps my attitude is "shocking" for some of your views but I assure you, I'm one of the most forward thinking people anyone will ever have the pleasure of meeting, and at one point I was pro-choice. Until the minute I saw I little hacked up fetus in a bottle. THAT's when shit went down. I don't see how anyone can be so bold as to say that it is OK to kill a being that's so completely defenseless. I liken it to some dude in an office making war-decisions, sending people to their death, and he hasn't even set foot on that field. What experience have I got that makes me the "authority" on the subject? Let's make something real clear right now: I'm not an authority on the subject. However, my best friend worked at an abortion clinic (local), and besides getting all the gory details, I would get to see the people that go in there. and I would get my friends account of the whole thing. conclusion? patients were young girls who are scared shitless of their parents or too "inexperienced" to have a baby. Rape cases were rare. The majority were unwated pregnancies of like 14 and 15 yr olds, who were smart enough to spread, but not smart enough not to know when to do it. I HAVE NO SYMPATHY WHATSOEVER. But I don't stop there, this extends to any woman of any age. I assure you. This tee is gonna get killed, and while I can't do anything about stopping some chick from getting an abortion, I will do my damnest to make sure that it's advertising goes to shit. There are two other things I like to say: 1/ a baby, requires a mother and father. So they're both just as guilty. If I were a girl, I would get that mofo' for all his sorry ass is worth...but our baby does not need to pay the price of our foolishness. 2/ in the the case that a woman's health is threatened by the baby (as in either you or him) then I would take a step back and shut up. But that's the only way you'll get me to shut up about this. as someone up there said, why not a t-shirt that says "I use contraceptives" or something like that. They're obvioulsy going for shock value, and that shit just don't fly.
  • 2nd try
  • Honestly, I have gotten blasted far more fiercely in other forums, but I still stand. *resists the temptation to give Warrior the daisy_may treatment*
  • Oh, look! Kittens!
  • "Just looking for intelligent convo." Indeed.
  • Who's a cute kitty? Who's a precious little kitty? Who's Daddy's little puddin' pop?
  • hey flashboy, where'd you go with your flame-retardant popcorn? We need you back over here.
  • I used to be all for indoor plumbing until I saw a turd floating in a bottle.
  • which part of you walking around with a t-shirt that says "I got an abortion" has nothing to do with my opinion on abortion? The part where no one was asking your opinion. What part are you not understanding. What your doing right now is the equivalent of someone asking how Kerry's campaign will be effected by his stance on gay marriage and you saying "GAY MARRIAGE IS FOR FAGGOTS AND THEY CAN ALL GO TO HELL" You're missing the whole point. Just because your view on the issue is one of support for the Tee, doesn't mean that it's not going to offend people like me... I'm sorry, where in this thread did someone support this t-shirt? Warrior, it's one thing to have an opinion and a voice in a thread, it's another thing entirely to derail a thread and attempt to turn it into an abortion-bashing extravaganza. You're trolling, yelling with yourself, and looking for a fight where no one cares.
  • "hey flashboy, where'd you go with your flame-retardant popcorn? We need you back over here." *giggles* this is really funny, sweet Ambrosia. However, my sweets, whoever decides to reply to my comments in a "disagreeing" fashion should know that it will require more than sharp rhetoric and a good vernacular for me to even take you seriously. Be civilized, give me your personal opinion, throw stats at me, but keep my persona and sexuality out of the picture (unless I use it, in this post, I haven't) that's only fair.
  • BABY OTTERS? Okay, that's the cutest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life and I'm generally immune to this sort of thing. The irony of the cutest fucking thing I've ever seen in my life showing up in an ABORTION thread is just one of those internet things, I guess.
  • 'Ooz a widdle-piddle-dingly-woozle-wumplekins? 'Ooz the sweety-weetle... Ah, fuck it. HITLER! HITLER! HITLER!
  • throw stats at me That's funny Warrior. I've yet to see stats from you. (I know, I know, don't feed the troll.)
  • Damn. For a while there, I thought this was gonna be a revival of the old 60's slogan 'What if they threw a war and nobody came?' ::sigh::
  • awww that otter is so cuuuuuuuuute! I love otters! **************************** anyway, Soooz. I'm not really all that keen on stats because you can make stats about how the tribes of africa aren't really starving. It all depends on who wrote the study. Another thing that I noticed is that orgs. who are pro-life, are highly religious; and my view isn't religious at all. I don't share that whole "God Said" argument... That's why I included "personal opinion", because should anyone decide to reply, they can do so with personal opinion. I ain't complaining, I mean, I voiced mine. I'm not looking for a fight. Honestly. everyone in this forum is a shapeless figure who has no consequence whatsoever on anyone else's life. I share MY opinion (perhaps aggressively, but that's because I'm the Warrior) but I understand that nothing of what I say here has enough power to get anyone going. And if you do then, ha, cool...it's your problem. But I'm not apologizing or backing down, if you want stats, go look for yourself...I still think abortion is murder. and genial...what is said was said, but to answer your question in a more "civilized" manner? NO I don't think this will further anyone's cause. As a matter of fact, it has the potential of throwing it back. Why? cuz you got people like me. that's why.
  • Alright, I've calmed down. It's obvious Warrior is ignoring any comments pointing to the obvious, so whatever. Can someone pass the popcorn?
  • And thus spake the Warrior, thank you for your opinion, mkay buh bye.
  • everyone in this forum is a shapeless figure who has no consequence whatsoever on anyone else's life *cries*
  • Some people (not me) might see irony in a gay man preaching about morals.
  • Oh for fuck's sake.
  • Some people (not me) might see irony in a gay man preaching about morals. What sort of fucking comment is that?
  • What I mean by that is that morals are a personal thing, and everyone's are different. And I think they should stay that way. In other words, use your own morals to guide how to live your life, and don't apply them to others, lest others try to apply theirs to you.
  • Fair enough. Sorry
  • Fair enough rocket88...yeah. But as you can see, the use of my morals is closely tied to my personal opinion, and I'm willing to risk having it tore apart, Quoth me "(and, I hate to use this word but, MORALS)" again, personal opinion in a forum full of strangers is irrelevant. again, if it gets under anyone's skin, it's their problem. again, keep my sexuality out of it. anyone else?
  • Warrior's name reminds me of that movie. "Warrior! Come out and play-ee-aay!"
  • anyone else? *snkk*
  • again, personal opinion in a forum full of strangers is irrelevant. I don't understand. But we are not all strangers on this forum - its a community, you know, and you get to know people over time, by listening to them talk (well, reading there words, obviously), and seeing what they post. Fair enough, it might well just be a well crafted fake persona I'm chatting too on here, but I doubt it. A couple maybe, but not 1300. again, if it gets under anyone's skin, it's their problem. And yet it says on your profile that you are just looking for intelligent conversation. There surely needs to be some respect and empathy for the people you are talking too, at some level, for there to ever be intelligent conversation. Won't it otherwise degenerate into insults and shouting? If you couldn't care less about the feelings of others on here, whats the point in engaging with them at all? (Not a fuck you, a genuine enquiry)
  • A couple maybe, but not 1300. *whistles, keeps on walkin'*
  • Hmmm. It's all well and good to be concerned about a "little hacked up fetus". But frankly, I don't see much concern about these potential children once they get born. There's another 18 years of concerns once that child comes into the world, but few of the anti-choicers I've spoken actively support raising the minimum wage, universal healthcare, or any number of other measures that would give unplanned children and their families a fighting chance. Crisis pregnancy centers that advertise services to such women basically give them a bunch of baby stuff and send them on their way. Few offer parenting classes or help them navigate the system for food stamps, or subsidized housing or healthcare. Because all you really need to raise a baby is a high chair, right? Furthermore, the anti-choice agenda goes far beyond abortion. They would restrict any form of birth control that is considered an "abortifacient" including emergency contraception (Morning After Pill), the pill, and IUD's. This is not fear mongering, this is reality. Case in point, the FDA still won't allow emergency contraception to be purchased over the counter. The anti-choicers are also pushing abstinence only education. Which we all know works like a charm. So while you may not be pushing a "God said" agenda, most of your compatriots do. Abortion is not an ideal solution. But it must be an option. Warrior, you act as though women who have abortions have no moral conscience whatsoever. Abortion is never an easy decision. And while I appreciate your anecdotal evidence, my experience has been far different. And yeah, I've spent my time in the clinic trenches too. So Warrior, how much of your time to you spend mentoring at-risk kids, or beautifying low-income neighborhoods, or lobbying elected officials for universal healthcare? When you log a few hundred hours, I'll be glad to talk to you again.
  • Sorry guys. I ran out of Twizzlers.
  • *lapses into diabetic coma, blissfully uncaring about post-poopers*
  • The t-shirt seems kind of dumb. Still, I suppose in a world where there are people harrassing women at clinics and murdering doctors, it might seem like a good idea to promote one's position more aggressively.
  • Then, honey, give the baby up. You don't gotta raise him/her. I know plenty of adopted people who are quite successful, and don't even care to meet the real parent. Whatever happens subsequent to the baby's birth should be none of "the mother's" concern...IF YOU WERE brave enough to consider killing it, then you should really give two shits about what happens after he's born. get on with your life! because there are ways and mechanisms in place to insure that baby will be taken care of. There's TONS of adoptive parents out there. people who will make sure that he/she stays alive. It'll be a tough life, but it's a LIFE nonetheless, and THAT's the bottom line. I can assure you, none of those kids that are in foster care are saying "WHY DIDN'T MY MOTHER ABORT ME?" No sugar, life will find a way to survive (taken from jurassic park, nonetheless) unless you have some psycho lady hacking it up... oh and by the way, when I'm at the "few hundred hours" of logging level, I can almost guarantee you that I'll be just as objective (or cunty depends how you see it) as I am today...so you may start "talking" to me now, or not. I'm sure you have some interesting input that I may choose to take, or not.
  • *waaahhhhh!*
  • Please, people, make him stop.
  • Thats sick, shawnj. Poor little rabbit
  • *wonders if Warrior will respond to my questions above*
  • DNG, your question: If you couldn't care less about the feelings of others on here, whats the point in engaging with them at all? (Not a fuck you, a genuine enquiry) your answer: engaging is secondary to the structure of this website. If it's main purpose was to engage, then this would be livejournal. As you can see, in my very fist post, I came out with my opinion on the subject without necessarily engaging anyone...people engaged me, and I simply replied. Yes, people often mistake a discussion online with one that's live, but obviously, the dynamic is not the same, particularly because I'm not telling you to your face. Online, as you said, I can be a character...I can be quite weak or powerful...or I can be the devil's advocate. Today I'm honest. Tomorrow, who knows? But isn't that the flexibility the net offers me anyway? what I'm saying is, here, I don't necessarily need to voice my opinion on the subject of abortion, but I did, and I'm playing along. But I can fade away, or laugh or whatever, and does it really matter to anyone? I don't think so.
  • IF x has the potential to be y, THEN x ≠ y
  • Ah, well, Warrior. I still don't think I really understand your point. Sorry.
  • I found this on the net.
    Planned Parenthood is proud to announce the release of their new line of abortionWare apparel. Featuring T-shirts with the phrase, "I had an abortion", this trendy, yet assertive clothing item is sure to attract looks--not just for its provative and empowering statement, but for its 50% cotton, 50% polyester material blend--a truly fine product that will not fade. Sizes come in Medium and Large. And coming soon, an additional t-shirt design with the phrase, "I Paid To Have My Fetus Sucked Out Of My Uterus And All I Got Was This Lousy T-Shirt"! Also ask about our line of circus gymnast Abortion Contortion leotard collection, a guaranteed hit with the kids! Ever feel like sending someone a message while driving to work or to pick up your kids (you know, the ones you didn't abort)? Now you can with our new exclusive bumper stickers. Select from a variety of perky phrases that are sure to convince anyone that murdering fetuses is a personal freedom and right--guaranteed by the Constitution! Choose from the following: - Abortion is Convenience - Yeah, I Aborted My Fetus. What Are YOU Going To Do About It? - Abortion Is A Private Matter - Abortion. At Least I Don't Eat Babies For Breakfast. - Shouldn't You? - Coat Hangers are Bad But that's not all! Planned Parenthood also offers coffee mugs, mouse pads, even teddy bears with striking social statements in defense of choice. So exercise your right to choice and spread the word! We guarantee you will be heard.
  • Wow, this thread sure is a trainwreck. Sorry I didn't see this sooner, or I might have intervened somehow. Warrior, your comments seem deliberately inflammatory, and sticking a "Honey" or "Baby" on the start of your statements make you sound a) condescending and b) like you want to go on "Jerry". If you tone it down, you'll probably get responses with a little more respect. As for me, I think abortion is a private thing and although I wouldn't stop someone else from wearing a t-shirt stating proudly that they'd had an abortion, you wouldn't catch me dead in one if that was the only t-shirt left on the planet. But that's just me. My feelings on abortion are what-the-hell-ever, I haven't had to deal with it personally so I have no right to judge others who have. If only everyone felt that way.
  • *opens mouth, points . . closes it again*
  • Well, as far as I'm concerned, you're all a bunch of weenie-heads for not bringing the extra large bag of M&Ms with peanuts to this circus. Com'on Pete, let's go get some, and we'll eat them all by ourselves. We won't share ANY 'cause you guyz are mean. So there! Phuuutttt! The ducks and all are cute, but I'm getting off this train before it gets to the rapidly approaching wobbly trestle.
  • Statement of Gloria Feldt, president of Planned Parenthood Federation of America July 28, 2004 Among many items offered in the Planned Parenthood Federation of America (PPFA)'s web store is a T-shirt with the message, "I had an abortion." This shirt was not created by PPFA, but we do offer it in our store. The shirt is not a cavalier statement, but a way to challenge the silence and shame around an experience many women have shared, however difficult that decision may have been. One in three American women will have an abortion before the age of 45, and anti-choice extremists are doing everything they can to turn that choice into a scarlet letter, and ultimately to criminalize this option. In that effort, some anti-choice activists have publicly disclosed that they had an abortion, only to cast this option in shame. Women who have abortions are the same women who have children, and they make both of those decisions with thought and heart and moral deliberation. As an organization, Planned Parenthood does more to prevent unintended pregnancy and the need for abortion than any other group. However, abortion is neither shameful nor dishonorable, and it should remain safe and legal.
  • It smells like pee-pee in here.
  • Sullivan, that was too funny! Tracicle, you speak like I actually was looking for a response from anyone, or did anything with it after they voiced it. DNG, that's the difference between me and you. Kimdog, I'll still "talk" to you. Bluehorse, I'll jump train with you. The last thing I want is a "reputation" amongst the monkeys. ^_^
  • *restrains self again*
  • It's a well-crafted response kimdog. You might mention to them that the article description at the online store could use a similar treatment.
  • *opens mouth, points . . closes it again* *pulls finger*
  • I just want to tell you both good luck...
  • engaging is secondary to the structure of this website. If it's main purpose was to engage, then this would be livejournal. Tracicle, you speak like I actually was looking for a response from anyone, or did anything with it after they voiced it. OK... I think I can finally respond to this in a polite way. I respectfully disagree with you on the first point quoted above. In fact, I think you have it backwards. The whole point of a blog or LiveJournal is to throw your ideas out into the digital ether. Maybe people comment, maybe they don't... but it's on the author's terms, and no one is compelled to post. There is no "engagement" per se, except in a rather limited form. Monkeyfilter is different... it is a "group blog" for lack of a better term, and a community in its own right. The whole reason we congregate onto this slice of the internet is both to share interesting links, and to share a dialogue about them (otherwise, why would comments even need to exist?). I submit that, contrary to your statement, "engaging" is pretty much the entire point of Monkeyfilter. Which brings me to quote # 2: If you're not looking for a response, then why post? I can only conclude that you are in fact looking for a response, and are now just being disingenuous. Well, you now have responses, including this one. Have fun. ON PREVIEW: I had orginally misspelled "group blog" as "group blob." Make of that what you will.
  • Monkeyfilter: Shapeless figures who have no consequence whatsoever on anyone else's life. sorry...
  • WAY TO GO, BONE!!! Warrior: Welcome aboard! You can pull the whistle, You can ding the bell. But if you touch the throttle ... We might go too fast.
  • Tracicle, you speak like I actually was looking for a response from anyone, or did anything with it after they voiced it. I was going to suggest you find a dictionary and look up the definition of "discussion", which is a big part of what this site is about, but the_bone said it in a far more eloquent way.
  • Bone, hope me some more. I can't believe that's the only tag line in here--AND I MISSED IT. To sum up, might I say that we have learned three things from this post. *The consensus is these t-shirts are cheesy. *Abortion tends to be a highly charged subject. *Tempers flare easier than cool. Now, who wants to have a ripe yellow banana instead of having the last word? *aproaches other Monkeys with eyes averted, makes soft 'ook ook' noises, and offers tasty Pop Tarts
  • Sullivan, that was too funny! I didn't print that to be funny.
  • Okay new rule: Only women are allowed to have guns. aaaaaaaaand - Go!
  • BlueHorse, you forgot something. Monkeyfilter: group blob.
  • Monkeyfilter: Ironic, iconic, edgy, be-mulleted urban male hipsters. Monkeyfilter: Waiting to shout at people who are already unhappy. Monkeyfilter: I had to quit school and work at Denny's. Monkeyfilter: Homunculus's link beat me to it. Monkeyfilter: A ripe yellow banana instead of having the last word.
  • MonkeyFilter: safe and legal
  • You guys are the greatest! Pete_best: MonkeyFilter: safe and legal But is it fattening?
  • Monkeyfilter: Homunculus's link beat me to it. My personal favorite from this thread.