December 19, 2003

• Wolof-- Excellent question, and mostly because I believe it is unanswerable. We're 300 strong now, but how many lurkers out of that number will likely never post--90% ? 75% ? A cursory review of posters since day one turns up the same good people at the wheel week after week. There will be some attrition, of course, and new faces will rotate through, but the same 10% or so will provide most of the content, wouldn't you agree? And if that is true, maybe others (in time) WILL start to become more invested in MoFi mainly because they'll see how much fun we're having AND they won't feel as intimidated as over on our sister site because we're consciously more collegial and respectful of each other. That said, I've been telling all of my friends in my Christmas cards and e-mails and daily conversation to check us out. Most had never heard of MeFi, and none of us, so I made them feel like they were getting some amazing insider info. All the rest is bandwidth.
• Excellent question, and mostly because I believe it is unanswerable. Which is exactly why I ask it. Discuss, minkeys.
• Should we solicit more members Yup. In the last week, MoFi has gotten about 15 new members. Two a day. As per a MeTa comment today, it seems that MEFi will open up before New Year's. If so, we need to recruit about 15 contributing members. I'd say we currently have 15-17 members doing 90% of the posting/commenting. We need 15-20 more.
• Ignore technical issues in this discussion. INFINITE MONKEYS! We can recreate the works of Shakespeare. Or just say "ook eek" a whole lot more. Really, what Dizzy said: we're probably going to end up with one in ten monkeys being active, so we can handle a good deal more. As many people on MeFi have said, new users are necessary to prevent stagnation. We want a dynamic site and new users will find cool new stuff or bring a new aspect to a discussion. I have no intention of cutting off membership for a long, long time. (Unless, as always, democracy indicates otherwise...)
• Certainly from here But seriously as long as, um, "INFINITE MONKEYS! We can recreate the works of Shakespeare. Or just say "ook eek" a whole lot more. Really, what Dizzy said: we're probably going to end up with one in ten monkeys being active, so we can handle a good deal more." the Tracicle abides. This from soon to be voted "Most likely to be first kicked" so, with a grain.
• I think we should have one new member: Jim Loy. And then we should all leave.
• As many as is good to have. And not one person more.
• The Jim Loy comments are even funnier if you never read the Jim Loy thread. Yay for me! I'm a 50% of 10% poster. I wonder if I'll make the cut. If not, I'll sulk.
• f8xmulder - You didn't read my Jim Loy post? You son of a @#$%... Seriously, We need more active members for two main reasons. First - Most of the actually active member are active because we share relative common interests so we have something to comment about. But still most threads that don't fall in those common interest die quite fast, if they ever come to life. If you watch MeFi you will notice that for every thread there's a different bunch of people commenting. The clear case is when gaming threads appear. None of the usual Mefiers show up yet there's much commenting on them from lurkers. Second - er, hmm... I really didn't think about a second reason.
• Tee hee. Wolof, you make-a me laugh. Honestly, the only worry I've ever really had at this place is that we would exceed bandwidth. I love the fact that we're so reflective about the community we're building (and I don't know about you, but I'm having a BLAST!), but I think (and I can't stress this enough) that if we all stay nice to moderately nice we can hang back and see what develops. So far I think the group we have participating is quite charming. Part of me is all for a membership drive, but the selfish part of me only wants people who find us through nefarious means (like MeFi, or that weird note that I passed you in the supermarket aisle). It's quite possible that I need a vacation though. Speaking of which! My plane takes off in 7 hours. I need to pack! (I'll be gone for two weeks, but rumor has it that Washington D.C. has sporadic internet access so I'll try to visit the monkey house.) Happy Holidays!
• i've been meaning to come up with some kind of post to try to lure lurkers to do some posting. are they shy? they must have something to contribute. i like to think so at least. anyway. yes, more members! this goes back to my suggestion of Special Simian Mofite Invites! when we run across someone cool/interesting/unique/obtuse, send them a fun invitation to come join us!
• I have to say that overall I have been pleased at the almost total lack of snarkiness here. It is refreshing indeed to be able to read through a thread, e'en one laden with conflict and controversy, and still come away not feeling like the worst of humanity is represented in comments. I read MetaFilter and come away feeling like there's no hope for humanity. Thank God for the Monkeys!
• f8xmulder, you fuckwit, shut your gob. (Sorry, there's far too much holiday candy floating around the office and I've partaken of too much this morning. Besides, isn't the immediate refutation of someone who talks about how nice things are here by saying something rude to them a necessity?)
• Lurkers lurk because they like to, not because they haven't been properly invited. Regarding membership, it might be good to take a look at Mefi: at 17000+ members, I'd guess (based solely on my experience there, feel free to contradict, I'm no statistician) that perhaps 300 are regular, active posters. That's just under 2% or so. Mofi has 300, of which 15-17 do most of the posting, that between 4-5%. Let's say 5%, for the sake of argument. Now, I assume that the idea is to stay collegial, avoid partisan bickery, and maintain cordial relations - a village, not a city. At the same time, interesting debate comes from a wide variety of ideas and opinions. There's your balance - how many people are required to have sufficient diversity for interesting posts and thoughtful comments and debate, compared against how many people are too much and will begin trolling, divided by how much time and effort the lovely and talented tracicle is willing to apply to technical issues, policing and mores enforcement? At current levels of policing, et al, I would guess (and these numbers are all coming straight out of my butt, so grains of saly all around) that 2000 members x 5% = 100 active posters and commenters. I think that is probably the maximum number that and individual Mofite can handle cognitively (think: knowing everyone in your village - it is our knowing each other, sort of, that prompts us to be polite). Now, if we (or a group of selecteds) were to gather and design a mores system that reflected a desire for more overt control over trolling, trash talking etc and an enforcement system to ensure its effectiveness (something that Mefi cannot, due to its size and historical laissez faire ethos), I think Mofi could easily handle double that, perhaps triple (200-300 active posters, just as actively policed). The question: what does the administration and, if asked, collective want? Smaller and villagy, larger and more regulated, or larger and unregulated (to wit, like Mefi, with all that connotes)?
• kim! you're coming to d.c.! woo! widget the dog and arf the cat and sidedish say, welcome!
• I like the slow growth because frankly, it lets us work out our growing pains, posting strategies, technical issues, mission statements, and in-jokes before this place gets overrun by a bunch of people I don't know and the noise just make me cranky. But we should grow more, and I think Dizzy's method sounds superb. If you know people who have a contribution to make to this site, they should hear about it. Post a story about it on your blog, if you have one. And keep the good FPPs coming. Preserving the polite discussion around here is the most important thing to me. I know it's directly related to the small size of this site. As soon as we start to lose that, I think we should close the memberships. Benefits to more users would include more FPPs. More comments. More chances for discussion, growth, learning, and monkey jokes. Monkey pictures. Monkey flash. Banana recipes. Planet of the Apes references. Possibly a Shakespeare play. (Although that might take a lot more users than 4-figures.)
• Per Dizzy: is OK to wideband the URL to like-minded bonobos in an effort to draw recruits, at least for now? Mefi had it's doors closed for so long, I stopped telling people about it and stuck that way out of habit.
• Also, regarding bandwidth; forgive my idiocy, surely this has been mentioned, but has a paypal thingamabob for donations for the technical costs been set up?
• I had an English professor in college who wanted lots of class participation and had a theory that if a student spoke up during the first week of class, she'd be much more likely to continue to participate. So she tried to get all of us to say *something* during the first few days. One of the things I loved about the STRING! thread is that it encouraged lurkers to put something in their profile and de-cloak to say "hi! I'm here!" - and once they'd piped up, they started showing up on other threads. I think we need to figure out some friendly way of encouraging lurkers to speak up. I am so pleased with how MonkeyFilter is coming together. I'd much rather hang out here and continue to get to know my fellow Monkeys! I think we can maintain the collegiality of it as we grow, and maybe our new motto can be "Monkeyfilter: it's nicer over here." Hey! I'm going to D.C. for the holidays too!
• 17,173 members. There, it's settled.
• Let us bask in the Golden Age of Monkey Filter. I like the current rate of growth. No need for membership drives and so forth. Word of mouth, future Me-fi lurkers who stumble upon a MoFi thread, happy accidents, these shall be our recruitment methods. Keep the influx to a trickle, and the inevitable cocks will be few and far between. And our Feared Leader will be ready with the ban button. A happy time of tall trees and plump bannanas aplenty. Yea, even the babboons did engage in civil conversation and the Bonobo's were respected by all. Before the shadow fell over the land... The Book of MoFi.
• If you were smart, you would have closed registration one member before me. Oh, and is anyone banned yet, or should I be setting my sights on that?
• I agree with Nickdanger. I would encourage MoFi members to invite acquaintances that they think would be good monkeys to join. Also, I extended a monkey's paw to MeFi's y6y6y6 yesterday after reading this comment in that political discussion Meta thread that makes your eyes bleed when you read it.
• I think the aforementioned Cock is the only recipient of Very Bad Monkey Exile.
• Yea, for Tracicle did cast Cock out to wander the land, and she placed a mark upon his IP address so that no monkey would give him shelter, nor be misled by him to the terrible Goatse, which consumes primates in a manner most foul. Alright, no more fake bible speak for me.
• amen
• Sucks for me, no one remebers the second moron banned.
• Whatever happened to the fake Miguel Cardoso and the fake Mathowie? Did they get banned too? Come to think of it, where did the real Miguel go? We've had all sorts of threads about foods and wines and such. Aonde foi, Miguel?
• Slow, steady, organic evolution. I like the sound of that. We start as marmosets, then macaques, then howler monkeys, then gibbons... until finally, we rise, a wondrous community of unified chimp glory, bathing in the warm glow of tool use and cackling. Seriously though, we should expect (and welcome) a little slowness - this was conceived as a website for lurkers, after all. And speaking for myself, I know that I'm trying to take it slowly... feel my way around, post some rubbish jokes here and there, building up a little confidence to start engaging more. And ultimately, to hopefully become an (at least occasional) FPPoster - and not just when I'm drunk or having to work throughout the night. Also, bear in mind that, for amany of those people who've lurked, membershipless, on MeFi for a long time, the fact that MoFi is developing its own style might act as a slight restraint to participation. Maybe a lot of the current lurkers would be well at home trading insults with quonsar or cocktail recipes with Mr. Cardoso - but right now are a little more tentative about saying, for example, "f8xmulder, you fuckwit, shut your gob". So lets invite fellow-travellers, by all means, and welcome happy accidents, and anybody who loves a good monkey. But let's not rush it. The fact that MoFi - golden age that it's luxuriating in - seems, well, better than MeFi right now... it's all the more incentive not make an idiot of myself. Yet.
• >>Slow, steady, organic evolution finally! something at least vaguely sexual!
• f8xmulder, you fuckwit, shut your gob I love you certainsome1, no matter how much you push away.
• a little more tentative about saying, for example, "f8xmulder, you fuckwit, shut your gob". I'm only willing to say it in the service of a joke. No matter how bad it may be. f8xmulder, you really understand me! *sob* ... no, don't touch me.
• I completely forgot my intention in posting. I wanted to say good points, flashboy, you've hit it on the head. At first I was tentative and scared, but now I think of you all as crazy aunts and uncles that I've never seen before. except for certainsome1. he's a kissin' cousin. Or will be soon enough....
• I'm the crazy aunt who only comes out on holidays, wearing a pair of knickers on her head, singing "Crocodile Rock" loudly and badly before passing out under the porch and having her foot nibbled off by the family dog. (I'm not, really. I don't like Elton John.) It's be nice to think we'll be friendly and nice like this when we get to Mefi's size, but I doubt that could happen even in a Panglossian world. Let's just enjoy it while it lasts and let that slow, steady, organic evolution occur.
• I just had a particularly organic evolution, so I'm gonna leave the fan on and the door open for a couple of minutes, ok?
• Newest reason to heart tracicle: Gratuitous Candide reference!
• No fair, you used the link color without linking!
• Dizzy, That's that other thread. Are we going there already?
• Oh, and I second Space Kitty. If Dr. Zaius is moderating the "Curious, George" threads, what is Dr. Pangloss moderating?
• ambrosia - BAHAHAHAHA! f8xmulder - DAMMIT! (mutters about lack of HTML skills) I meant.... http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~mcgoni/candide.html
• Ambrosia: Dr. Pangloss can moderate any thread where someone quotes Monty Python: "No one expects a Spanish Inquisition."
• Mickey gets extra bananas for referring to Candide and Monty Python in the same sentence. (...wipes soda off monitor...)
• Awww... It's always been an ambition of mine to be both a crazy aunt and uncle at the same time; f8xmulder, you've made me a happy monkey. (gizza kiss) Now, all we need is something for Dr. Moreau to moderate, and we can all go home to evolve; slowly, steadily and - ohgodyes - orgaaanicalllyyyyyy... *ahem*
• *farts*
• Me too! Me too! I'm in DC too! (At least until next Wed.) Maybe we should have our first MoFi meet up??? Or maybe I'm rushing things a bit. Hmmm, I guess we haven't known each other *that* long have we? *shyly fiddles hands and looks sheepish*
• Oh, and what everyone else said.
• maybe our new motto can be "Monkeyfilter: it's nicer over here." The mouseover text on my MoFi blogroll link says "Like MetaFilter... but nicer."
• Hey Sooooz, that makes at least four of us: you, me, Kimberly, and SideDish. Kimberly, SideDish, anyone else- thoughts? I'll be in the DC suburbs (Arlington VA) the week of December 22-29... it would be nice to have some faces to attach to the names...email me directly if you're interested.
• Hi, I comment at Metafilter, and lurk here. It's kind of as though I've been driving in Boston for the past two years, and find myself making a grocery run in Albuquerque all of a sudden. I'm a little scared what I'll do. That you're calling AskMe type threads "Curious George" is excellent.
• furiousdork, I just hope you'll pick me up a six-pack.
• hi furiousdork! we're nicer here. *and* we like pop-tarts.
• and find myself making a grocery run in Albuquerque all of a sudden. I'm a little scared what I'll do. Yep. I know that feeling. How 'bout you IS ?
• So, how's that 4,369 members working out?
• More crazy aunts and uncles! Yay!
• 6,316! *urp*