July 10, 2004

Francis Bacon: On Revenge may speak to some, but it seems that the desire for vengeance may put those who agree in the minority. Whether it's General Sherman's march or today's products, tips, and actions of vengeance, a fascination with revenge seems to abound.

Most of us have probably at least thought about getting revenge on someone or something in our lives. Some do go through with it, whether it's getting revenge on poon trolls or otherwise acting against someone who made us miserable. If nothing else, almost everyone enjoys reading revenge stories once in a while. On the other hand, revenge could just be a game for some. All this brought about because the song from the Bananaphone animation stuck in my head. Revenge! Revenge upon the one who began this demonloop!

posted by Christophine 20 years ago
  • REVENGE is a kind of wild justice; which the more man's nature runs to, the more ought law to weed it out. For as for the first wrong, it doth but offend the law; but the revenge of that wrong pulleth the law out of office. Certainly, in taking revenge, a man is but even with his enemy; but in passing it over, he is superior; for it is a prince's part to pardon. And Salomon, I am sure, saith, It is the glory of a man to pass by an offence. As far as the first paragraph goes, I disagree for various reasons with everything highlighted.
  • Well, freethought, let us know why. That's the way to get a conversation going.
  • My comment really means that I don't find Bacon worth debating on this issue because the language/metaphors he uses is/are vague. There's no moral philosophizing, just prettied-up opinion.
  • Who said this (I really don't know)? "Justice is retribution; retribution is vengeance; vengeance is revenge." I think I got that more-or-less right.
  • Alnedra: I hadn't heard that quote. The closest I've seen is Archbishop Desmond Tutu, who said that "punishment is retribution, retribution is vengeance, and vengeance is morally wrong." Now I'm going to have to research and see if I can find who said that about justice. Curiosity, cats, and all that, I suppose, but there you are.
  • Sorry. *bow* I really don't know where I read this. It must have been years ago, in some novel.
  • I'd like to thank you for the new-to-me phrase poon troll, Christophine.
  • Can anyone think of a revenge narrative that makes them feel good/satisfied/a-positive-emotion? The point here is not to say "See, there are/n't good things about revenge. I want to see what types of revenge appeal to people.
  • And 'moronic, loser horndogs' seems apt.
  • But it doesn't have that ring.
  • Terrorists are sane and not paranoid madmen, a leading expert says. "Dr Andrew Silke, a UN advisor and forensic psychologist at Leicester University, says terrorism is a political, not a psychiatric diagnosis. He said legal reports showed members of groups such as Al-Qaeda were motivated by violent events and the desire for revenge."
  • Revenge upon the one who began this demonloop! Uh-oh.
  • Here's an excellent article/review on classical attitudes towards anger and revenge: Excuses for Madness.
  • Vindicta Nemo magis gaudet quam foemina.-- Juvenal No one rejoices more in revenge than woman. I'll get you, my pretty!
  • My, look at everything that happened while I was asleep! A bit of catching up: Alnedra: No apologies necessary. The most offhand comment can get my curiosity up about something, and I'll research endlessly to track it down. Seems to be in my nature, and I enjoy doing the research. goetter: Appropriate term for them, isn't it? The first time I saw it, I just had to adopt it. I've been using it ever since. freethought: I was neither approving of nor condemning revenge per se. I was noting the contrast between Bacon's assertions and the feelings of many others about revenge. If it comes down to that, I've indulged in revenge a time or two myself, and it had a positive outcome. And sometimes, plotting an elaborate revenge without actually engaging in it has been an excellent outlet for anger. It has taken the edge off when I needed that to prevent me from doing or saying something I'd regret later. homunculus: Since you provided those links, which I thought were fascinating reading, I'll let you off the hook for the bananaphone demonloop. As much my fault anyway. I should maybe know better than to dig through the archives to see what went on before I was able to read much of MoFi. BlueHorse: Indeed. Or should that be, "Amen, sistah!"?
  • ring ring ring ring...
  • ...ring ring ring banana poon!
  • Will someone please answer the damn phone?
  • While the mind recognizes the law's primacy in civilized society, one's soul cannot deny the satisfaction of vengeance attained. It is a legacy of our predatory evolutionary heritage, along with incisors and and the adrenal fight-or-flight response. The hairless ape, no matter what softness of cloth he dresses himself in, will never truly lose his taste for blood, either hot or cold. We would all do well to remember that, about ourselves, and about our fellows.
  • ACK! homunculus, goetter... I finally got that song out of my head, and now it's there again! *bangs head on wall to try and dislodge the music*
  • Some of those 'revenge stories' are really atrocious. I've certainly entertained fantasies of revenge from time to time. But ultimately Plato was right - there's no worse punishment for someone who behaved like a dickhead to you, than that of being the dickhead they have made themselves into. er, not Plato's actual words, of course...
  • Yeah, but in Plato's time many men liked dickheads.
  • Those revenge stories are weird - and one can't help but imagine what the other party's recount of the situation would be like. 'Bitch dumped me, she must pay'. Well, I wonder what the 'bitch''s opinion would be of this 'avenger'. Petty, small-minded paybacks are just an extensions of the trouble caused. You end up wasting time, obssesed with someone that already caused you grief... s/he's actually harming you without having to bother, you're doing the job.
  • Fes: So are you saying you can try to put pants on a Monkey, but you can't really expect a Monkey to keep his pants on? Well, THAT explains Pete_best! Chris: Can you gimme another AMEN!
  • BlueHorse: LOL and AAAAAMEN!
  • Oop! Ack!
  • "The notion that a bad guy is going to get it is really important to humans." Is altruistic punishment the same thing as vengeance? As retribution? As spitefulness? As our concept of justice? Do laws/current legal procedures need to change? Is retribution deferred equally satisfactory? For Christians, how would this affect concepts of forgiveness? Lots of questions spring to mind. Very interesting post, homunculous: understanding the urge to strike back if struck seems all too pertinent at this point in history.
  • You mispelled my username. You must be punished.
  • Oh yeah, homunculus? If you hurt beeswacky, I'm taking you DOWN.
  • Kitten pictures, quick!
  • Dibs on the loser's arms, armor and nubile slaves!
  • Kittens!
  • Alas for bees now smitten with kitten. The wee thing has spots. I just know it will grow lots and lots and lots.