July 08, 2004

• I have an opportunity to adopt a newly weaned kitty, and I have wanted a cat for a long time, but I live on a very busy street. I have lots of room in my apartment but I don't want the cat to be pinng for the great (and hazardous) outdoors. My only experience thus far was with a few-weeks-old kitty who terrorized me until I let her out. Any advice? Can I brainwash my feline to appreciate the innerverse only?
• Jerry Garcia, As a long time cat owner I can attest that you can train a cat to be an indoor cat. Like dogs you need rewards and for kittens many distractions. Kittens have short attention spans and need lost of stimulation or they get bored. The outdoors always has lots going on so it looks attractive to kittens. However most cats will try to get out. So you can't let your guard down. If they pine to go out, just try to distract them. If you can, try to cage in your balcony with chicken wire (just be sure there are no openings!!!) Cats can squeeze through hole or gaps just wider then their heads.
• ...I meant "Cats can squeeze through holes" not hole. Courtney Love notwithstanding
• Is your cat going to be alone for long hours during your working schedule? If so, I'd suggest you get 2 cats so they can keep each other entertained.
• Fish tank! Fish are like TV for cats. You could also get mice or gerbils. If you don't want to care for a fish tank, you can get those video tapes of acquariums for your cat. They love 'em. Catnip too, perhaps even a live plant. I second the 2 cats motion. 2 cats are really no more difficult to care for than one and they're much happier that way. My 2 cats just love all over each other its too damned cute. I never get tired of watching them play together.
• I agree with Zed. With a kitten that young, you will find they are pretty adaptable. Depending on the cat's natural timidity or curiosity, you might have a kitty who is more or less likely to try and get out. But even if she does slip out, usually they won't go far (with my two they were immediately terrified once they realized they were somewhere new). It's not necessarily an "escape" behavior, but more an exploration thing. Once she learns what the parameters of her "territory" are she should be content. I have one cat that started out as an exclusively indoor cat, then was given occasional outdoor priviledges. When we moved to the city she adjusted easily to being indoors all the time again. Ditto what path said, too.
• I second PigAlien and path's motion about two cats. They do this synchronized sleeping thing that will warm the cockles of your heart. But young cats are curious and zippy as all get out, so you need to be very careful if you have a door that leads to the street. A lot of cats are sensible about traffic but if you live on a fast road, your cat may get only one chance to be sensible. Older cats are a lot less likely to bolt for the door, but they aren't nearly as lively as kittens. An older cat, maybe, to mentor your kitten? Knock it around when it gets too fresh? Oh, and...it isn't the cat you'll be training. It's yourself.
• Well, some cats like tv and others don't seem to notice it. I had one once who loved to watch horse races - kept trying to catch the little horsies.
• I have to say, the comments I've read so far have warmed my heart. You guys are the bestest! That said, I do believe there is the once-in-a-blue-moon kitty who will not be thwarted in her desire to be an outdoor cat. I had one of those. I had her for a year, and never once in that time did she ever relent on her persuit of the great outdoors. I got her a leash & harness, which helped things, though. Desipite this, I think most cats are the indoorsy types. Also, if you're getting your kitten very young, she probably doesn't have any experience either way, and will be alright with what you prefer. if you're wondering, I finally gave her up to a wonderful couple with lots of land. I couldn't stomach her need to be outdoors, and she hated being cooped up
• Oh, yes - harness training might be good. But, I think you have to start early. Some neighbors I had once had two cats they'd harness trained. The cats were gorgeous - and very proud of them selves when they went for their evening walks. On the other hand, it might just make them want ouside more. Hard to tell.
• I totally second everything that has been posted so far, with some caveats. A cat's personality makes a huge difference, and unfortunately, to a large extent, that's an unknown with a small kitten. I agree that with a cat that young, a companion kitten is absolutely necessary. It really isn't much more effort. If the kittens have never been outdoor cats, they won't know what they're missing. And when you live in an apartment, they quickly discover that getting out the front door only leads them to the uninteresting hallway - not the fascinating world of squirrels and pigeons they see out the window. They *do* love to have pets. I've had various rodental-type pets over the years, and the cats LURVE them. (The mice, OTOH, are completely oblivious to the very large predator on the other side of the glass.) Cats will spend hours with their noses pressed to the glass, making those ridiculous "ek ek ek" noises. (Do, however, make sure the mouse cage is absolutely secure.)
• I successfully domesticated two kittens about six years ago. They were brothers, descended from farm cats -- the upwards of 10 generations that lived only outdoors. I'd say it took zero work to make them into indoor cats. One's an explorer, but very scared of the outdoors. He jumped from a 10 foot deck once and I found him up a very tall tree an hour or two later. Not that keen on the outdoors after being fetched from the tree by a strange fireman. Contrary to popular belief, volunteer firemen are not fond of this task, since apparently getting a ladder means bringing out the whole truck. So much for popular wisdom. Never seen a man that large scale a tree that well... The key really is getting them young, as everyone else has said.
• If you get a male cat & neuter him too late, say after 8 months, he will still have a certain male cat testosterone thing going on, making him rather prone to straying. Hormone injections can solve this, although they must be done every 6 months or so. I've had a cat for nearly 15 years and lived next to major roads - she's smart enough never to go near cars. She does'nt cross the road. Sometimes though, it depends on the personality of the cat, they are all different to some extent. SOme female cats when on heat or just after having kittens, will become extremely flighty, and I have known them to run across the road directly in front of cars in crazy fashion. If you have a moody or headstrong cat, training it will be out of the question, for most people. Agree with the get them young idea.
• i recently adopted a feral kitten and he's a total indoor cat. i volunteer with a pet group and we always counsel our clients that indoor cats are much safer, much healthier and live much longer -- especially if you're in an urban area. my former cat, Arf, lived happily indoors for all of his 19 years. yes yes yes, do your kitty a favor and give him lots of kitty toys and maybe a kitty playmate and he will live happily ever after -- indoors!!!
• Thanks everyone! Great ideas and a lot to think about. I had an experience similar to minda25's with my first kitten. She would not be stopped in her pursuit of the outdoors and is now a happy ten-year-old living at my mother's more "rural" city address. I do have two front doors, actually, that lead to a very busy street street, so I will have to be very careful (cat gates?). I work out of home so loneliness/boredom isn't an issue, but the idea of two cats is very appealing. Thanks again!
• also, check out this fun site about indoor cats!
• both my boys are primarily indoor cats. both were neutered at the age of 1 year (happy birthday, say bye bye to your bits, poor boys!) and show no signs of wanting to wander, or of spraying, either. they are littermates, and i definitely second (third? fourth?) the recommendation to pick up more than one - when we do go on vacation, they are much less stressed than our old kitty was. a single cat alone for a weekend is very unhappy, but having a friend around will help immensely. they do go outside on a harness, but not that often. they like open windows, they like to stare out the screen at the chipmunks and squirrels, and they love to watch the birdfeeder. they like to smell the outside air, too. they do occasionally try to escape, but they never go too far. i set clear limits on them with the harness, and don't let them go near the road (4 lanes, busy all the time). cats are very timid when outside their home territory; they don't take their confidence from you, like a dog does. instead, they see you as part of their territory and are only comfortable when you're nearby. they need constant reassurance that they are safe. being outside alone makes them uneasy, as they haven't gone out enough to really establish "their" territory yet. as long as my wife or i am there with the other end of the leash, they wander at will. so it isn't hard to train a cat to be indoors. just expect them to be bored more easily, and chubbier (less exercise). lots of interaction with you or with a littermate will help on the boredom side, food just for indoor cats will help with the chubbiness. purina has some now, we have also used the iams weight control. i also recommend some cat furniture - climbing toys, floor-to-ceiling if possible. ours love their "cat tree". and don't declaw, just in case they do get outside. plus it's sort of mean. scratch-training them didn't involve too much effort, and now they (largely) leave the furniture alone. (old cat post is a bit shoddy, and in need of replacement - lately one of the boys has started picking at the couch out of frustration. oh well, it's our fault, and the couch was due for replacement anyway...)
• echoing what PatB said: humans domesticate dogs. cats domesticate humans. So what is the name of the kitten?
• My old kitty started as a harness cat. She had a 10-12 foot radius of roaming space, and I moved the harness location around so she wouldn't get bored. She didn't escape too often. (It was more of a chasing game than anything else.) When she was 10, we moved to rural Washington state and she roamed freely around a few acres. Then when she was about 12 she moved with me to an apartment in Minneapolis (busy intersection, 2nd floor). I harnessed her again and took her for "walks", i.e. I followed behind and grabbed the leash if necessary. We moved again and she had a fenced-in yard for a year. When she was about 14 she became a permanent indoor cat, with only occasional visits outside. Oops, long-winded. Here's my point: it does depend on the personality of the cat, but the little buggers are much more adaptable than we give them credit for. Yes, what name have you picked out? And will you post pictures?
• This is great advice and I feel much more confident in being adopted (p@wn3d!) by the felines. It has been ten years since I had a cat and it is a big responsibility. So, two kittens will be dropped off tonight! They are six weeks old, weaned and littter trained, and I will be getting a male and a female - brother and sister. :-) I have all the necessities such as a litter box, scratching post, food bowls, etc. Thanks, caution live frogs for the food suggestions as I was wondering about that. Interesting that there is food specifically for indoor cats, but it makes sense. Thanks also SideDish for the excellent link! I'm excited! I haven't thought of names yet, so I'll see what their personalities are like. And I will certainly post some pics ASAP.
• They are gorgeous. All three of them! :-) Three sisters. I have them finally coralled in a safe four-sided pillow zone on my bed and they seem to be relaxing a bit. They were terrified when they got here - too much space and too many smells is how I imagine it - and so they ran for the blackness under the couch. I would too. But now, two hours later, through coaxing and grabbing and showing them their litter box (they liked that to a gal!) they are actually starting to get a bit "fighty" and, dare I say, confident. Or at least curious. I can sneak a fingertip out from under a pillow and look out!!! ATTACK!!!! I feel a bit overwhelmed. I grew up on a farm, a hobby farm, and animals have always been friendly to me. As a child, well, ah... They are so beautiful! I think it is going to take a few days for us all to settle in. So far they are obviously freaked out by the ceiling fan. :-) And now I wonder where I am going to sleep tonight. These three little beings are going to change my life. No doubt about it. I am so happy! /wants a wife and kids ;-)
• Jerry-Seventeen years ago I brought home a seven week old kitten for my wife. We knew it would have to be exclusively an indoor cat. We observed her behavior closely. At about 12 weeks we set her up. It took about four hours of our Saturday but she cautiously approached a door to the outside "left" open. At the apprropriate instant she was greeted with a wall of water and the clanging of pots and pans. "nippurr" to this day is terrified of an open door to the outside. When the doorbell chimes she makes a beeline for the scurity of our bed (underneath). She does not reappear until our guests have departed.
• I'll keep that in mind, nippurr. So far they are just cute and sleeping. :-) Trouble ahead, for sure...
• Anyone else notice that Jerry's already been wrapped around their little tails already?
• Anyone else notice that Jerry's already been wrapped around their little tails already? And how it went from one to two to three kittens in about 24 hours? Oh Jerry Garcia, I am so happy for you, and jealous too! They sound like delightful gals. Please post pictures soon so we can all say "woojie woojie woo woo" to our monitors.
• I second shinythings request! We have two guys (neutered at 6 months). They are also front declawed, and although some people go eugh (I did too, when it was first suggested) it IS worth thinking about for cats which will be exclusively indoors. The horror stories (and they're horrific) are all from the incompetents who remove the front knuckle of the cat. Laser surgery is the way to go. A little more expensive, but if you find a vet with it it's a good bet that they are very good. My previous experience was with outdoor cats. Their claws were sharp, but once we got the two indoor cats I appreciated just how much difference NOT having the claws blunted from running around outside made. The new guys were like razors, and could do serious damage to a person quite inadvertently. With the declawing, they still do all the cat things, they can still climb (you MUST leave the rear claws, front only please) and knead and so forth, but no accidental shredding of skin.
• Cats are intelligent wee things, and can be trained if you are patient. I've had eight of 'em over the years, all were indoor cats. My vets tell me an outdoor cat has an average life-span of only two years, while indoors cats can live to be twenty-ish. I had one lived to be 21, and several lived into their late teens. The urinary system in male cats can be troublesome -- ureter's too tiny -- so they are especially susceptible to bladder etc infections. Longhaired cats are liable to cough up frequent hairballs and really benefit from having their coats brushed daily. Get your cat neutered early on. Talk to it and handle it frequently, make sure it has plenty of water, and I think it's better not to leave food out all the time as this makes it more difficult to tell if your cat stops eating, an early symptom (especially with males) of trouble. Have fun.
• beeswacky, I had thought the same thing about neutering boy kitties early, but was corrected by my vet (a very, very good vet). He said 6 months at the earliest, because apparently serious problems can arise if done sooner. It's rare, he said, but better not to take the chance. polychrome, the same vet as above sat me down and gave me a de-clawing lecture (because I'm a volunteer, and he knows what we all think of that procedure). He gave me pretty much the same info, which was reassuring (he'd actually just gotten done de-clawing a nice little black kitty, who was all purrs and love afterward). The only thing is to make absolutely sure the vet is doing it the humane way. I remember a fellow volunteer who'd, in her youth, decided to de-claw her "devil-cat". The vet assured her it was a simple operation, no pain, etc., etc., and to make a long story short, he was full of shit. He did it the nasty way, removing the knuckle. When the procedure's done this way, the cat is eternally in pain. Jerry, where are those pics?!?!?!
• OK, so Jerry Garcia is now the proud owner (yeah, right) of three kittens. Jerry started by wanting to adopt one cat. Now he has three. Let's face facts here. Jerry is now a lost cause. In that spirit, I would like to offer the following series of pet humour links. Cat physics House Rules for new cats How to pill a cat and (to inject some balance here) When dogs play mind games and How do dogs change a light bulb Congratulations Jerry!
• Thanks polychrome! They are wonderful and easy to handle at this point. I pick them up and talk to them whenever I can and whenever they seem to want it (mewling) or will put up with it. If they don't want to be held I just let 'em go and have fun. And oh, jeez, they are they having fun and so am I! I am not going to have them declawed though I do appreciate the thoughtful advice. The fact is that none of my furniture is so important that it can't handle a few loose threads. And they seem to have taken to the scratching post. And just watching how much they rely on their front claws to make fools of themselves all over the upholstery has been a blast. So ungainly, and apparently impervious to self-inflicted pain! (e.g. diving off a couch head-first into the hard side of a coffee table at full speed. Oh well, on to the next adventure!) I am working on getting a digital camera so I can post some pics in this thread. Just as PatB said, they seem to synchronize their sleeping and when they wake they are a mix of frantic activity, confusion and trepidation. Just like me! They are still getting to know their territory. That and the important difference between hardwood and carpet. :-) So far my greatest concern has come to nothing: they express no interest whatsoever in the great and dangerous outdoors, but that might change. It has only been three days. They seem happy, and I am feeling different as a person, seriously. These little ungainly creatures remind me what it was like to be a toddler. And they seem to like The Beatles. :-)
• Oh, and why I got three instead of one: Well, Gilles the fellow who was disposing of the cats, brought them all (seven). So I had a bunch of kittens tripping all over my place. It was all I could do to pick three! If, as they grow, they are too much then my lovely neighbour will take one. So they can visit.
• Well, it turns out one of two remaining sisters has balls! So I have a potential Tom. In a month or two he is going to start wanting to mate with his sister. Surgery is looming, poor babies. :-( It does explain a lot of the personality traits, though, or so I like to think. He is bigger and badder (trouble with a capital T) and she is meek and mild. Sterotypes, maybe.