June 19, 2004

From the Guardian
posted by squidranch 20 years ago
  • Excellent article, squid! Wish we saw more of this thing in the States. One suggestion though: you might have chosen a more descriptive title for your post. As it is now, one knows nothing about the topic.
  • Very good article...finally some news that's not making the U.S. look great.
  • I should add, almost all non-U.S. written news is better than the news written here in the United States, at least I think so. Again, good work posting this
  • Thanks pyrrthon and camel of space. Pyrrthon, lately I've been purposely not adding any supporting text in more politically oriented posts so as not to arouse our other monkey friend's prejudices. This group is a naturally curious bunch and sometimes it's fun to see where the thread goes without pushing it in a specific direction with my thoughts.
  • Interesting theory, squidranch, and interesting post. However, just like all the Rah-Rah America Boom-Bah books out there (typically by Messrs. Hannitty and O'Neil or Ms. Coulter) Anonymous seems high on bombast and low on facts. I know this is just an article, but I would have liked to have seen just a little more explanation about Anonymous's reading of the Iraq war, for instance. Something that isn't mentioned about Michael Moores's books, at least not very often, is that he extensively footnotes every fact he uses. While I complain about his shrillness and his unwillingness to say that the other side isn't actively evil, I have to say that I learn more factual evidence from his writing than I do from pretty much any political commentator.
  • On the Michael Moore topic, I can not remember specifically what the charge was, but supposedly he played fast and loose with the timeline of events in Bowling for Columbine. Something about the NRA convention not happening when he said it did? As I said, I don't quite remember... I like Moore and his message, it's just that I hope that he, and other progressives like him, are more honest and rigorous about facts than the blowhards on the right. If anything, I do want progressives to prevail politically, I just want us to do it as honestly as possible.
  • Here's a previous thread with complimentary links.
  • I sincerely appreciate your restraint, squidranch. Though maybe there's some middle ground between a bare LINK FROM THE GRAUNIAD and an editorializing From the Guardian. Another nail driven into George W. Bush's corporate-shill plan to dominate AmeriKKKA!!. Just a hint, a wee hint of what's inside. /Yeah, I got yer prejudices right here *heft*
  • Got you to look.
  • Here is Moore's response (with links and facts) to the above criticism of 'Columbine'. I find it interesting how often the film has been declared anti-gun or anti-NRA, when Moore clearly wants to talk about the culture of fear and violence in this country. 'Culture' is a more abstract concept than 'anti-(fill in the blank)', and doesn't sell as well on TV.
  • It's a good thought, squid - but one further reason why an additional bit of info might be appreciated is for those of us who read the Grauniad every day anyway. Not quite sure why, as finding out which article it is only takes one click, but I nearly passed over this on the assumption that I'd already read it. And as it turned out, I hadn't... On the topic at hand, what interests me is that all these people who are coming out to condemn the current administration's policies (from 'embittered' former whatnots to currently serving guys), they're not just giving interviews or writing snarky OpEd columns - they're writing books. Now, I know the American publishing industry's a bit different to the UK - basically, there's more book deals for more people - but this still suggests to me that these criticisms have a good deal more heft to them than your standard "Worst. Administration. Evar." critiques of whichever lot's in charge. Yes/no? Oh, and I'm offering 13/2 that it's written by Valerie Plame. Just because that'd be funny. (The male pronouns are a red herring.)
  • And squidranch, please bear in mind that for some of us the Guardian is a national news outlet, and this kind of story is no break from the norm at all. More details in the FPP in future please.
  • Points well taken. I will ad more info in the future.
  • I think it would be pretty cool if all links were in fact just a collection of random symbols. That way it would be entirely about curiosity! I wonder if we could somehow hide the URL so that you didn't know what you were getting until you arrived at the page. The Guardian? New York Times? Metafilter? Tentacle hentai? WHO KNOWS? SURPRISEFILTER! Oh God, if only I ran things around here.
  • Here is Moore's response *roll eyes* Oh, please. More of the same. If the text of URL itself didn't give that away, the lead text certainly did. [cheap-shot fat joke elided] Got you to look. D'oh!!!
  • I can tell you one thing--part in Bowling for Columbine where he gets a gun at the bank is entirely plausible. Maybe the scene was staged, but my family lives in the town where that bank is and the gun offer was real. Guns and hunting are a normal part of life around here. Zebediah makes a good point, I think. The culture of fear is a powerful thing in the states.
  • For sacred: Surprise Filter
  • "It's apparent that Russians and President Putin are interested in a second term for Bush," said Liliya Shevtsova of the Carnegie Moscow Center. "We've always had good relations with Republicans. We dislike Democrats, because Democrats always care about democracy in Russia."
  • I'm having trouble digesting the meaning of that statement...
  • *gives some alka seltzer to f8xmulder* I use it all the time, these days.
  • War makes strange bedfellolws. Putin wants bush Back in because it diverts attention away from all the stuff he's getting away with. It's the Chewbacca defense, complete with silly monkey.
  • damn! not the Chewbacca defense! WE'RE DOOMED!
  • Not to be confused with the Chewbacca marital harmony strategy: "Let the Wookie win."
  • all the stuff he's getting away with Like in Chechnya? [or they]