February 25, 2004

• I dunno. In my experience it's inevitable that when a site becomes popular, 'snarky' posts become more prevalent because, basically, the human race is full of c*nts. You can't stop it completely, except by bannage, which then snowballs into more self-policing, and so-forth. People find it easier to express their negativity in an anonymous environment. The answer is to keep it gentle, make as little direct intervention as possible, and try to make sure the great unwashed understand this issue. It's rather a hard thing to keep balanced, but the main thing to remember is: don't let it get to you. Humour is the best approach. Mock the angry. Dance. Eat cheese.
• i just KNEW the neighborhood would go to hell once all those snarly mefites started moving in... KIDDING! mean people suck. snarky comments suck. i don't visit mefi nearly as much anymore because it just ain't fun over there. i like mofi because people are nice and respectful. i, for one, pledge to continue to play nice. i say, ignore the assholes.
• I pledge to the MoFi constituentcy that I will not partake in any heathen monkery. Count me in SideDish! I want to make the angry dance and eat mock cheese. *sits on the floor cross-legged, peels open a brick of Velveeta and waits for vexed hoofers*
• thanks for the laugh, SideDish! We've had enough of a demographic explosion that it's probably worthwhile to point to the great things about MonkeyFilter. This thread rocked. Kudos again to f8xmulder for hanging in there and standing his ground, and to everyone for keeping the pile-on to a reasonable, well-intentioned roar. From the beginning, people have commented on how much nicer the tone is over here. I'd like to think that we're the next evolution of MeFi. When MoFi first startedup, I hoped Tracicle would create a MeTa-type page. When I saw this thread, I changed my mind. mmmmmm, cheese.
• So whats your idea? Lets face it, the blowjob post was bad, really fucking bad, incredibly stupid and unfunny and bad. So rather than ignore posts I don't like, I spoke up, because as you can tell, I thought it was a really really bad post. It's not what I think should be on the board. (Oops, veers dangerously close to MeFi navel gazing territory.) Now pass the fucking cheese.
• There is no prevention, only recovery.
• There is no prevention, only recovery. I aim to learn from the mistake of my parents. :D Along those lines, why can't we take bad posts and massage them into what we know and love in MoFi? Play the hand and recover them? If you see a bad post, activate your MoFi-twin powers. Add a little humor and I think others here would run with it. A possible solution maybe? Find the bannana and run?
• Yes, there are bannanas here too.
• I'm with the_they: ban Nana. Talentless bitch.
• I think the_they is on the right track. There have been some interesting threads made out of bad posts here and at MeFi. I think as long as we stay away from "THIS SUCKS" and personal attacks and turn it in to something interesting we'll be fine.
• Wait - I misunderstood. Sorry :(
• no!!!! don't ban nana! I love my nana! (well, she
• This is exactly what I'm talking about. Theoretically, had it a been a poor post, the quidnunc kid did something that saved it and SideDish played it. Show me your MoFi and I'll show you mine. *hands the quidnunc kid and SideDish a peeled nana*
• thanks, the_they! and a hearty glass of cockpunch to you!
• thanks the_they, you is_are a sweety!
• What did I do? I'm sorry. No really. Sorry. Yep.
• I, for one, support the anti-Gay Amendment. /banned
• MoFi has the priviledge at the moment of standing apart from Metafilter based on an atmosphere of friendly debate. Realistically, though, sites like these are destined to veer towards the snarky side on a regular basis. I'd just like to say that if you think a post is bad, please don't comment there just to say so. If the poster gets no comments, he/she will hopefully learn from that. Telling them something sucks isn't helping and will possibly start a flamewar, and we don't need that here. If it's a double post, say so and I'll delete it. That's all I have to say. I was going to post something longwinded with a zillion links here to essays saying "Why weblogs are doomed to snarkiness", but you guys have it totally under control. I'll go back to reading posts, now.
• In theory I agree with the "if you don't like the post don't read it and don't comment" idea, but at the same time I'd like fellow monkeys to know when I think something is inappropriate. (Not sure why, or why I think one monkey voice out of 653 is going to make a difference, but sometimes I think a line is crossed.) Granted, we haven't gotten into beastiality as they have recently at MeFi (ew), but I thought the blowjob thread was out of place and uncalled for. I would rather stuff like that not be posted again. So what do I do? Comment in the thread saying just that? Ignore the thread and hope that the poster gets the drift? Start my own Weblog and invite only those who I think is appropriate to join? Get over myself? While I'm sharing my thoughts, I'm seeing a MeTa trend in a lot of the threads lately. Discussion is good and then it lapses into chats and handing out bananas/glasses of cockpunch/who's getting the next keg for the "party" that has erupted in the thread, etc. etc. I know I can just skip those comments and scroll down to see if anything else of note has been added, but once it gets to that phase I tend to give up on the thread altogether. When I see on the front page that a thread I've been following has a new comment, it can be frustrating to load the entire page just to read "*Hands X a glass of cockpunch*" Etc. etc. On Preview: My apologies for the longwindedness.
• Sooooz: I think you're hitting on the key issue. I'm sure there are a lot of things that as individuals we don't want to see on MonkeyFilter. I, for one, would really like it if this place didn't descend into the realm of posting outrageous p0rn-ish links, but I think if you really don't like a post e-mail (nicely worded) is the best way to deal with it. I think a perspective check e-mail to tracicle would be a great idea if you're really worried (Note: Do not abuse! Try ignoring it first!) would be a good thing because she's as laid back as it gets here. Honestly, I think a non-response is the best reaction. Either that or turning something that may be offensive into a productive, thoughtful thread about the issue (also: use with caution). Perhaps people will try to be more thoughtful before they post things if we support that kind of environment.
• Also, sometimes I find the personal banter a little tiresome if I'm interested in the topic, but as I said, it's not my forum and I just skip it with an oh well (or post something on topic and hope it catches on). And some of the personal banter makes me feel all warm and smooshy and community-oriented.
• Sooooz, maybe an email? Maybe I'm being overly bossy; I just don't want to see a huge pile-on or a flamefest over an inappropriate post. I don't want to delete posts unless they're a double, so I'm relying on all the Monkeys to post the best they can. I sort of agree about the pointless comments but admit that I've done it too. At least when threads reach that point it's because the real discussion is pretty much done and there's nothing left to say on the topic. Yeah, I am being bossy. Sorry.
• nope, tracicle, you're not bossy, this is bossie!
• Excellent points raised by all! Yet I always wonder: Why does everybody APOLOGIZE for their cogent, articulate contributions? (just asking. sorry.)
• (and i find it deliciously ironic that the first post after this one is "Tribute to Goatse.cx." ha!)
• When I see on the front page that a thread I've been following has a new comment, it can be frustrating to load the entire page just to read "*Hands X a glass of cockpunch*" I dig you, Sooooz, but it wouldn't be frustrating to a member who had just made their first post to read that. And many like the light-hearted natterings intra-se Mofites, eg - such is verbal grooming. I am down with Kimberley's solution: if you want more quality conversation, ask and ye shall receive (we all hopes). I really like your name, by the way.
• i'm just a frosh here, and in total agreement. if things do deteriorate to totally tasteless posts and insulting comments then the first recourse is to ignore completely. now if the whole *filtre goes that direction....well, then individual choices need to be made. meanwhile i'm quite happy to be monkeying around.
• verbal grooming. heh. that tickles.
• Okay, slight derail, but here's another post that I think is super. It's from the early days of MoFi, and it encouraged people to flesh out their bios a bit, and also encouraged newcomers to pipe up and introduce themselves. I firmly believe that revealing something about oneself in the bio encourages a sense of participating in the community. (I'm on a campaign to point out the good things.) I get Soooz's point about the in-jokes and the hobnobbing, but I think a certain amount of it is ok. Plenty of threads meander through buckets of cockpunch and poptarts and wind up back on track. Quidnunc hit it on the head- it's verbal grooming (well-coined!)
• MonkeyFilter: Verbal Grooming since 11/03
• I'd just like to say that I hate each and every goddamn one of you. With all my heart.
• Hey! Who just hit me with a Velveeta brick?
• It's nice to be nice, but too much niceness can be oppressive. There have been times when I've felt inhibited from posting a comment on MoFi, fearing that any expression of disagreement would be regarded as antisocial. A little while ago, I queried a link to a pornographic website that I felt was inappropriate for MoFi. In reply, I was told, politely but firmly, to mind my own business and let everyone else mind theirs. Since then, whenever there's been a post I dislike (e.g. Sullivan's blow-job link or Phaedrus's egregious self-link to his own blog), I just shrug my shoulders and pass by on the other side. Who am I to spoil the party? But it would be nice if we could preserve a healthy balance between the "serious" posts and the "trivial" ones (if I can make that distinction). When jb feels the need to apologise for this excellent post with the words "sorry if this is a bit newsfiltery", I think it may be a sign that the balance has shifted too far towards the light-hearted pop-culture side of things. On preview: I think Dizzy's comment is spot-on. "Why does everyone apologise for their elegant, articulate contributions?" Perhaps because they're afraid that no one will pay attention unless they lighten the tone with a few jokes about bananas and cockpunch. More confidence, people!
• You would prefer, "This is newsfilter. Fuck all of y'all. /Ice Cube"? I appreciated jb's gesture: it graciously acknowledged that, generally, we aren't newsfilter, and that he (she?) knows that. It's similar to a self-link being so much more palatable when accompanied by a declaration of self-linkness. Both indicate that the poster is aware of the hazards.
• I think the "apology" issue is quite interesting. As a student of linguistics, we often discussed the implications of apologies and what they mean to different people. Here's an interesting article that illustrates some generalizations about the difference between how men and women approach communication. I'm not posting it as a comment on what I think is or is not true (nor to speak for anyone else), I'm posting it to show that communication is a tricky thing and the way certain people interpret cues--like apologies for example--may not be the way they were intended. [/possible derail]
• well, personally, i have a foot-in-mouth tendency. it's hard not to do it once in a while. i also tend to be sarcastic, pessimistic, and often bitter. in a funny way. if it comes off as snarky, well, perhaps i meant it. i am after all often a snarky person, but i mean well. on the other hand, if i'm outright being an ass, i'd appreciate it if people let me know, rather than let me go on being an ass for the next few posts. a nicely worded reminder here and there can be a good thing. after all, we all have bad days, we all have personality quirks. we can't expect that everyone will always agree. we can at least try to do each other the favor of being polite in our disagreement or gentle rebukes, rather than just saying "shut the f**k up" to each other. nice is good. nice all the time is leave-it-to-beaver boring. if we can avoid flame wars, great - after all, this isn't /. - but let's not be afraid to throw a low ball now and then, or to take a swing in response, just to keep things interesting.
• On (what should have been) preview: What goetter said.
• It's nice to be nice, but too much niceness can be oppressive. Exactly. I don't think that anyone wants to see MonkeyFilter turn into a primate version of the Stepford Wives. That's why I linked to the Civil Disobedience thread above- the discussion was thoughtful and reasoned, people disagreed with one another, without snarky "asshat" comments or other ad hominmem nastiness. More lively discussion, please, easy on the snarkiness, with plenty of verbal grooming on the side. Is that too tall an order for the Monkeys? On preview, my only quibble with jb's apology for newsfiltery-ness is that the issue in the article isn't newsfiltery, really. It's a real issue, and the article made an excellent post. /end quibble/
• To begin, I'm not sorry ahead of time for my cogent argument. It's the way I feel -- if I was sorry about it I wouldn't post it. Second, I'm with basically everyone when I say we can do without the blowjob/pr0n FPPs. Save those for Fark. Third, I tend to skip those kinds of threads anyway, but I imagine a policy of ignoring bad posts generally results in something along the lines of a MoFi Pearl Harbour - digital isolationism may not have as drastic effect, but it can grow into something less banana-friendly and more poo-flingingly, which I feel safe in saying none of us want. At any rate, self-policing is a good start. Monkey's are better at it than humans anyway...when was the last time you heard of chemical warfare among the simians?
• I think one thing we're overlooking is the distinction between flinging poo at a blowjob post and flinging poo at a post about a constitutional amendment banning same sex marriage. Common sense dictates that if we are kind folk we should tread gently in matters that are politically/ethically/morally/emotionally/nonsecularly charged. I'm the first one to snark and be a shit if given the opportunity and I'd rather be TOLD that I've posted poorly rather than be ignored; but being aware that it's easy to misinterpret "Bad post" as "Who Cares" or "I Don't Like You" when the stakes are so high is prudent thinking. on preview: verstegan re the link you refer to: I would never have posted that as an fpp, but it did seem appropos to the discussion at hand. I'm of the opinion that posting in comments is more of a scrum than the front page... anybody agree/disagree whatever? Also on preview: i'm more of a kitsch/weird crap poster, some of you do more scholarly stuff, there are a few newfilter and musicfilter types... I think we balance each other out. I just skimmed the past few days and I think we do an EXCELLENT job of balancing on the tightrope. We are however, entirely too goddamn nice and I suggest we start a Shirley Jackson style lynching Lottery to be decided on the weekend. Pikachu, I choose YOU!
• fx8: you'd have to be a real insect.
• question! can someone please explain why self-posts are so verboten? IMHO, i consider you guys my virtual pals, and there are certain personal things i might want to share with you, perhaps a story i've written i think you might enjoy. why are self-links frowned upon? just curious.
• Uhh, I'm an idiot but, fpp=first person post?
• fpp=Front Page Post... forksclovetofu: Yes. And I can't say that being a bombardier beetle would be bad.
• (i've understood it as Front Page Post) (there are no stupid questions, that's my motto)
• Dish, what flash said. Also, this thread. In short, bring it on!
• I think the FAQ says it best. Self-links are not verboten, but they should add to a discussion. "Self linking is okay, as long as it's interesting and unique and will generate discussion (and by "discussion" I don't mean "people yelling at you for posting a link to photos of your kittycat")."
• Dammit goetter. You keep pre-empting me. Don't make me lower the thunderdome. * flutters eyelashes *
• Just a couple of things about what tracicle said on the eventual degeneration of all weblogs. Yes, it can happen to MoFi, and the first bad signs have already shown up. But it can be redeemed and it doesn't need self-policing. It's all about group behavior. Some monkeys are naturally nice, others are harsh and snarky (like myself), but the last ones tend to self-restrain and behave nicely when interacting with a group of nice individuals. They feel compelled to be nice in retribution. But once they feel that someone is acting unnicely they feel somewhat liberated from social pressure and start behaving wrong. In turn making other nice monkeys turn ugly. Then it all goes down to the drain. The solution then is being self-conscious about your own behavior and try to keep the tone nice for all even if they are being annoying. If you get mad at them you are ecouraging them and others to stop being nice altogether. It's all about civility and good manners. But don't be TOO nice, really. Sorry if any of my comments have offended you or anyone before. And, as others have said, I'm open to criticism. Don't shut up when I say or post something that bothers you. Just be nice and I'll listen and do something to redeem my attitude.
• As far as ignoring bad posts go, I don't think that's the best solution. You need to distinguish between bad, offensive posts and simply uninteresting ones. Message for the latter is 'try again', message for the former is 'don't try the same type again'. I think the poster should have some idea of why a post failed. If a post is offensive/trollish, that should be communicated.
• Way back in the olden days (that's early December to you ) I came across what I thought was a poor excuse for a FPP. Our good friend and prolific poster, Dizzy, had posted a fan site for Judy Davis. Now I love Judy Davis as much as the next gal, but there was nothing of real interest on this site. I looked back at his posting history and saw a little bit of a trend brewing. I decided to comment. I'm a sarcastic and snarky asshat by nature, but the overwhelming niceness of MoFi rubbed off on me (I'm still trying to get that spot out!) and I went with what I hoped would be received as a genuine question, a 'what gives', if you will. The result was, IMO, kind of impressive. If I can learn to be a kinder, gentler commenter, anybody can. I think a kindly worded query can be more effective than simply ignoring a bad post. However, pr0n and the ilk are another matter. Can't we just say they're a no go? Does anyone really enjoy these as discussion points? That being said - the cockpunch/poptart stuff is getting out of hand. I too get frustrated when I see a thread I've been following has new comments and it's just 'socializing' banter. Does it have to get brought up in every other thread? Maybe try a little restraint and skip it if you're not adding something new to the conversation. Oh, yeah, getting to say cockpunch is the reward for truly insightful comments. What?! A girl can dream, can't she?
• This thread has officially become a bitching-about-everything, otherwise know as MetaTalk. I vote to delete this thread once everyone had a chance to spill his/her beans.
• i second.
• You kids stay the hell off my lawn! *gets hose*
• *gets hosed*
• I fucking hate every single one of you. cockpunch
• Another stupid-no-question-is-stupid question: How does one get another monkey's email address?
• Never mind. Clearly, I'm an idiot.
• There are no stupid questions, just stupid people.
• Now that we're seconds away from the group hugs, I just thought I'd take a second to tell you that I'm going offline for the next couple days as we ( my lovely wife Becky and our two cats) are moving from Baltimore to Worcester, Massachusetts. I never want to see a roll of packing tape again. I'm already having MoFi withdrawal, as I'll be unable to access my trusty Mac until Sunday or so. Could somebody fill in as "Proxy Dizzy Lite"?
• we'll miss you diz! when you return be sure to clue us in as to how to pronounce Worcester.
• Diz, just make sure you don't take a wrong turn and end up in Wooster, Ohio. Remember, there are no stupid questions, only smart-ass answers.
• "Woostah" if you bake the bread, "Wuhstah" if you buy it, "Were-chester" if you are my folks who can't get a handle on the whole North East thing.
• Thoughts, a little late: all the cockpunchery/poptarting can get a little tiresome, but it's generally fine (I think). For starters, I think it generally happens in threads that were pretty frivolous to begin with (we rarely derail an Earthquake in Morrocco, 500+ dead post into discussing who likes tha moon most). Secondly... well, heck, I like the fact that we do frivolous well. It'd actually get pretty oppressive round here if every thread turned into the legendary 953, regardless of how great that was. Impressive, but oppressive. That said, I did feel quite guilty a while back when the derailing happened, exclusively and without respite, to all of Dizzy's threads :-) Good luck with the move, dude. Addendum to self-linking: the "allowed, but make sure it's good stuff..." approach also has the benefit of making sure those of us who may be tempted to self-link are making high-quality work. Rather than thinking we can post any old dross and get many bananas come our way... And (if we are allowed to use this thread to bitch gently about whatever we like) on the subject of the "pile on Bush" type posts- *hey, where'd everybody go?* -I'm not saying for a second that people shouldn't be allowed to post 'em, but could people, pretty please, think a little before sticking them on the front page with a shrill title? I'm interested in US politics, and I've said on many occasions how important I think this election is for the whole world. But there's a difference between posts that refer to broader human concerns (gay marriage, etc.) or have clear and important relevance (e.g. Nader decides to run, the four horsemen saddle up), and ones that are of only internal American interest. And while, yes, those not interested can just ignore them, this process isn't helped if the post is oversold as being more important than it is. Not having a massive go at anybody, just saying that I like the way we're a broad, international website. And if a large number of FPPs are of sole interest to left-wing Americans, it can just get a little alienating. Thankyou for listening. :-)
• Basic truism: if the front page of a Filter-esque site gets dominated by a bunch of similar posts, that's bad. Doesn't matter if it's AskMe, BushBash, NSFW or links to great museaum collections, the whole key to citrus-tangy-banana-peanut-butter-cheesy-cockpunch goodness is diversity. So, if I may change the subject...
• If anyone wants to self-link posts they can go to Metapop. That's okay over there and linking entries can help bring a little traffic to your site. I did a self-link to a fpp on MonkeyFilter, but I that was not the main link. I also stated that the link was coming from my site. As for the snarkness factor, I haven't seen a problem yet.
• Now before this thread ends, as someone said, in a wave of cockpunch, I'm going to keep it and link to it for future Monkeys. Any further complaints? No? Alrighty then. /church lady
• Cockp-
• 655 monkeys pissing on threads One was called out and bumped his head Monkeys called the moderator and she than said No more monkeys pissing on threads... [Repeat]
• This thread is too long. My cockpunch has gone cold!
• No kidding. My cleaning power is all used up.
• Man, living in Tokyo I always miss the fray, what with being on the other side of the planet. As many of y'all, not to mention 17 hours ahead of the american west coast (yes, it is tomorrow here). I really dont mind much of it, but I think you would be hard pressed to find someone less offendable than myself (though its not like I look at goatse.cx for fun). It would be great if there could be some enormous collective daily bush-bash thread (unlike most people I never get tired of finding more reasons to hate him, but it would be nice just to keep it in one place). Yeah, the blowjob link sucked in my opinion too, but hell, some people think the man show, adam sandler, and bad boys II is funny. Oh well. There should be some amount of self policing, certainly. There is a reason that I bother to read the comments and participate here instead of fark or slashdot, respectievly (though I do read it for the trolls, because they are so juvenile and offensive). As for self linking, I think the Metafilter policy of it being OK in the comments, or as long as you have a few other non-self links in the main post is a pretty sensible policy. Plus, I missed where the cockpunch thing started. Back when this was on juju.net or whatever it was, I could never remember the address. I didnt join until it was officially monkeyfilter.com, it had something to do with an endearing troll named "cock", if I am to understand? Additionally, while I dont mind most posts, I cringe everytime I see internet slang or abbreviations: blog, snark, asshat, /., IIRC, IMHO, IANAL, and OMG topping the list, but you never see me bitching about it. errr...
• The cockpunch stuff started here.
• I'm pretty sure it was here - but I'm often mistaken.
• sully: uhhhhh. no. it started here.
• Actual origins of that particular little in-joke here. All due to a misunderstanding, naturally. Also houses the origins of the "we're nicer over here" trend and the "flashboy insults entire population of Australia" habit.
• echo.
• echo echo echo...
• Origins of the "using preview like you're supposed to" trend still in the future, sadly.
• errr, flashboy, the "we're nicer over here" actually dates back to this old thing. It's so, like, last year.
• True, very true. Should have actually checked that, rather than just casually chucking it into the conversation. Note that it's first said just above the bit where I talk about not wanting to make an idiot of myself. It was a golden age, y'know?...
• Kimberly - I also agree that things have been changing here lately. So far, it hasn't seemed to be for the better, but I guess we'll see. While I can ignore the links that I don't like, I have to wonder "what will the neighbors think?" If links like the blow jobs one are ok, are we doomed to get more because they seem to be approved? And will it discourage interesting folks from coming here because they think Monkeyfilter is mild sort of p0rn, or "women need to get a clue that they're sex objects", or "this is a testosterone zone" safe? (Note that I would't want it to be safe for an estrogen zone either.)
• Monkeyfilter is mild sort of p0rn People who are looking for porn aren't going to stay at MonkeyFilter very long. They will browse and leave.
• My comments to Phaedrus were spurred by the fact that : *his self-link was indulgent *his choice of wording in metafilter seemed like he was criticizing the blog he linked to (himself), and was thus confusing. *his entry was largely links to other blogs which coulda been posted here directly, as later review shows that he used a large portion of his blog's text in his post. I woulda chimed in earlier, but linux and kde are giving me a Phillipino Beatdown... so... *scrapes foot in dirt* are we still cool? can I call you later, monkeys?
• "On preview, my only quibble with jb's apology for newsfiltery-ness is that the issue in the article isn't newsfiltery, really. It's a real issue, and the article made an excellent post. /end quibble/" I'm sorry for apologising for the newsfilteryness, and I'm sorry for apologising for the apology, and I'm sorry for being Canadian) /end sillyness :P I didn't actually think the link was bad, but thought that because of its common source, The Atlantic Magazine, that many would have already read it. I'm glad people found the article as interesting as I did. I think the consensus being reached is a good one - that ignoring or a polite comment are the best responses to less than superior posts. (I'm very much of the ignoring type myself). If comments are going to be made, my only request is that they be made in polite and to the point way, as it is true that snarkyness can breed snarkyness. However, I have also become aware that there are some superior posts which have very few comments, largely because they are fascinating and interesting, but not discussion oriented. I like these posts just as much as those that provoke discussion. I guess the only thing to do to let the poster know that it was a good post, but you don't have anything witty to say about it is to give a banana (or say "wooo...panorama" :).
• I'd like to take this moment (not that anyone asked) to claim creation of [banana]. (anybody find one earlier?) so you just stick your "wooo...panorama" where the sun don't shine, mister. (insert smiley here) Looking back to find that first [banana] brought back a lot of memories. Remember when W told us that the space program was going to get a lot more funding and attention and that we'd be going to mars? Man, that seems like it was forever ago...had to be way back... oh... a month and a half ago, even. /nostalgia will eat itself.
• These self-exagmination* posts always go completely bazoongas. I can only put it down to the simian tendency to adore looking at itself in the mirror while simultaneously scratching its arse in a non-trivial manner. * first monkey to question that spelling gets an instant happy-slap and a history lesson.
• it's spelled "buttsongas", wolof. As in "I would've voted for him, buttsongas never won his party's nomination.
• I joined Mofi because I'm a Mefi lurker. So far, I'm not hugely impressed. Mofi, as yet, doesn't seem to show the intellectual diversity that Mefi does. I think and hope it will, though. Granted, Mofi also doesn't have the impressive numbers that Mefi does. I have yet to see real snarkiness. In fact, I agree that Mofi can be opressive in it's efforts to be nice. The reason Mefi is so powerful in it's draw is because of the passionate opinions, the incredible diversity of information (something else Mofi should improve on), the overall intelligence and ability to converse by it's members. This is one of the safest ways to really let your opinions and feelings be known. If someone disagrees and feels the need to attack, it can only be done with words. Some need to develope thicker skins, not be quite so sensitive. All that being said, I truly do appreciate being able to be a member of what can potentially be as satisfying as Mefi has been (if only as a lowly lurker).
• Maybe there's not much intellectualism here on MoFi (remember that being an intellectual requires 30% having real intellect and 70% having a poser attitude), but at least we have a decent amount of area of interests. We almost have the same proportion of science, arts and literature post than newsfiltery, opinionfiltery, etc. It's not as heavy handed on the side of the later as in MeFi.
• I find some of the MeFi posts that are strictly more 'intellectual' (in the bad sense of the word) are definitely tinged with a 'look at how smart I am' motivation. And even the better ones (like this one) get few comments. If MonkeyFilter is a collaborative site, it makes sense that specific interests of the individual members come to the fore sometimes, and hopefully we can all learn from that. But aiming for intellectualism for its own sake could easily lead us down the path of increasingly obscure posts. Also, I think MonkeyFilter should be proud of its identity. It's not MeFi, and I think it shouldn't try to be. Fair play to Matt Haughey, he had the original idea and it was excellent. But as that community is gated now, it's natural that others should spring up around it, and be different from the original. Their identity is no less legitimate.
• As a professional intullectwoall, I take resemblance to Darchons post! Actually, I have been very impressed by the intellectual diversity of Monkeyfilter - and I'd like to take this momment to thank everyone. Especially Caution Live Frogs who, in addition to the cool name, has taught me more about zoology in a few posts and comments than I had ever learned before. And I think that in another an important way, Monkeyfilter is far more diverse than Metafilter - and that is the prevalance of non-Americans. We're still mostly anglophones (the language bias gets us), but much more international, and it shows in the discussions. And yes, self-reflective threads do get over-long and bloated, but are not necessarily bad (would we be posting in it if we were bored)? (And seriously - people actually PAY me (a little) to sit around on my ass and think! Whooda thunk?!)
• And I am way too parataxical. I've been waiting to use that word, that I've just learned, all week. Or rather, I learned "parataxis" and just invented my own adjective.
• Boring people say paratactical; I much prefer parataxical. Yes, of course I had to look it up to see what it meant... :-) (Parataxis - good name for a cab firm. Weirdly eclectic GIS results)