March 07, 2006

• Njeeaa! *tugs open collar* Don't envy you on this one, Anonymonkey. To tackle the 'easy' question first -- you know you shouldn't get involved in a money dispute, so don't. It's pretty clear that the money may already be gone anyway, and there's no decent resolution to be had on that end. Stay out of the money question. As for helping your friend -- that's tougher. Frankly, I don't think you can do it from far away. You would either need to head out there yourself, or have some family or close friends do it in your stead. Alcoholism is based on lies. Alcoholics lie to themselves, to their family, friends, anybody. And as long as they can lie, allowing them to continue drinking, they will. Being thousands of miles away, your friend can lie to you pretty easily. It's only when they're cornered, and lies will not help them escape, that they can deal with the core issues of their addiction. You won't be able to corner Tom when he's only a phone click away from escape. You'll either need to go out there yourself, or have some family deal with him in person instead. Of course, that will all depend on circumstances beyond what you've set out here. Don't worry about the Ben-Tom dynamic. That's secondary to getting Tom back. A Ben-Tom thing may already be lost anyway. And most of all -- remember the first rule of any rescuer -- keep yourself safe. Don't put yourself at risk in getting someone else out of danger. Good luck.
• what he said. to a T.
• If he's your friend, you should help him whether he asks for it or not. That said, flying out there and kicking his door in to carry him to the nearest inpatient treatment center is ultimately not going to help anyone. He needs to decide for himself. IMHO, you should attempt to stay in touch, even if it's just leaving a message on his voicemail, letting him know that you're there for him if he's ready to deal with his issues. Ditto what Capt Renault said about Ben and the Ben Franklins: My advice would be to stay out of the Ben/Tom/Money thing. It is completely separate-- whether or not despair over being unable to repay a debt is fueling his drinking. If it wasn't that it would be something else, and something else, etc. until he's ready to deal with his disease. You can't fix him, but you can be there to support him when he gets help to fix himself. And ditto too what Capt Renault said about the Rescuer Rule: stay safe.
• Dealing with alcoholics is aggravating. Until they become POTUS. Then it becomes painful if you happen to be Iraqi.
• Save the snark. Wrong thread.
• How do I help my alcoholic hermit friend from thousands of miles away, and how can I do it without coming between my two good friends? That's a large task. Not to put too fine a point on it, but no one could do it. You want to help him, but Tom has to want it and he has to do the work. Stopping drinking, paying back a debt, all of it. I understand the strong desire to help, though. He's your friend, you were roommates, and you're concerned about him. Next time you talk, perhaps you should let him know that. His friendships are suffering. Maybe he's in danger of losing his job. Hearing that someone is concerned about him & his problems are difficult to solve on his own may finally sink in - maybe he'll want help. Ask if he wants some info on AA. Find out where the nearest meetings are. Let him know he's not alone in this struggle. You don't want to be the go-between for Ben & Tom. You need to keep the lines of communication open with Tom, and if he suspects that you're merely acting as a collection agent for Ben, he'll stop taking your calls, too. Let Ben work out something with Tom on his own, if possible, and as difficult as it may be for Ben, unless he has something in writing, he may need to write off this loan.
• One thing I'd add: You could bring up the idea with Ben that Tom's acute alcoholic crisis might be more important than the immediate repayment of Ben's loan to Tom. If Ben could approach Tom with more concern for Tom's welfare than for getting his money, that might make it easier for Tom to connect/ask for help/etc. This isn't to say Tom wouldn't/shouldn't still be accountable for repaying the loan. Just a thought; I don't really know what the right thing to do is beyond what's already been said in this thread.
• I'd just add to keep talking to Tom, even if you get the vibe that he doesn't want to hear from you. Even if it's just a note or call to let him know you're there to listen and you care about him. If he doesn't have a lot of friends or family around, and he's withdrawn from those he does have, he may be feeling (wrongly so, but it's easy to feel this way when your life is out of control) that nobody cares about him. Maybe all you can do is to keep letting him know somebody does care.
• If you really think you can convince Tom to get some help, then by all means go for it. But steel yourself for gut-wrenching failure, as the choice to change is up to the alcoholic. Like everyone else, I advise staying out of the money issue. You can help Tom or defend him, but your just asking for extra, extra hell by trying to do both.
• Excellent advice above from the Captain and those above. Not that much you can do -- helping him is really up to him. Unfortunately, alcoholics may have to mess up bigtime, create a crisis situation, before they accept they must choose to improve/change their situation. And this can be excruciating for friends and/or family to witness, if/when it happens. Try to be straightforward with him and encourage him to get help. Be prepared to be rounded on before all's over, but even if that happens continue being sanely supportive. Best of fortune to ye, and to your unfortunate friend.
• I agree with the notion of staying in touch with your friend while staying out of the money issue. Bringing up the issue of his drinking can be tricky. He may get defensive and withdraw from you if he feels he's being lectured. It can be helpful to wait until he brings up the issue, and simply repeat to him things that he has already said about it (or things that you think you can convince him that he's already said). You can say "Well, you've said that your drinking has been a problem before" or "You've mentioned going to an AA meeting in the past just to try it out. Have you been working towards this recently?" It helps that you're using his own ideas, in a non-accusing way, to say "I'm only repeating what you've said in the past because I think you already know the path you need to take and because I support you in that path." You can also repeat the negative things he's said on his own about the effects of his addiction. This way, stopping drinking and getting help is his idea -- it comes internally rather than externally -- and he's more likely to follow up on it. I've found that this method works better than lectures or confrontations because lots of people (me included!) tend to dig in their heels and become resistant when someone tells them what to do. This method may take some time to show that it's working. We all have our own schedule, and sometimes people have to think about things, work them out, over several months. You just keep repeating what he's already said, in a supportive manner, and that you're ready to support him when he's ready to go for it.
• Oh, and good luck! It stinks when our friends are in trouble, and I know how hard it feels not to be able to rush in and fix things right away. It sounds like you're being a good friend, though, and doing the best you can!
• Tough spot. I can't add to the good advice above, but I'm sending you and your friend Tom all the good fortune-cookie karma I have saved up.
• Anybody else feel like a drink?
• Yep.
• Choccy milk?
• I was thinking beer.
• Yep.
• oh, ok. Hog lumps too, please.
• Thank you all for the good advice. I knew I could count on my monkey pals! It's particularly hard for me because I'm an introverted person myself, and invading someone's bubble, even for all the right reasons, goes against my nature. But there's this voice that's insisting "SOMETHING NEEDS TO BE DONE", so I'll just grit my teeth and do it. I know that if I was in Tom's position, I would appreciate the effort, at least in the long run. Unfortunately, he has no family in the vicinity, and I can't afford to go there myself, so this will have to be done through voicemail and email. I know he'll come around eventually, but it worries me that this keeps happening, and he doesn't seem to be getting the help he needs for his anxiety disorder (thanks to the healthcare system in the US, it's probably because he can't afford to get help). He doesn't eat when he's drinking, and it's so unhealthy. Well, I'm rambling now. Thanks again, good monkeys :)
• So, how did it go? Update, please.
• Thanks for asking, though I don't have much to report. Tom is doing ok, has even got a promotion at his job. We don't email very often, but he's been very busy and I've been sick and also busy. I can't tell from so far away if he's maintaining a low-grade drunk or not. I don't know if he's paid Ben back or spoken to him, because I told him my concern about it once and said I'd never bring it up again. I haven't asked Ben about it either, or spoken to him much. I suppose I should email him, but I wouldn't bring that up if I did. It's really none of my business. Anyway, I guess my update is that I decided to stay out of it :)
• Well, the promotion sounds positive, anyway. Thanks for the update.